Are you worried about the Patriots?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Are you worried about the Patriots?

    I know many are saying that the Patriots will take time to get in sync and then they will be hitting on all cylinders.  I am hoping that  is the case but not entirely optimistic.  There are a lot of worrying signs and they are obvious to everyone.


    First, I think getting rid of Welker was a huge mistake. We know Amendola is a good player and can be productive. However everyone knows he is injury prone.  We are replacing one of most durable players in Welker with an injury prone player like Amendola. The way he plays and the kind of hits he takes is hard to watch.  There is no way he lasts the whole season playing like this, especially when he is the only real legitimate target has so far. 

    We all know the pathetic track record the Patriots have in developing young receivers. That should give us pause when expecting  someone Kendrell Thompkins or Dobson to be studs. People forget hhe was not even drafted, so there are still plenty of doubts about him. I believe Dobson could not even beat out Edelman in the camp?  I would have thought the expectations would be higher than that.  It is almost painful to look at the current group of receivers that the Patriots have.  If Amendola goes down, this is without a doubt the worst group in the NFL by far.  Just don't know how Belichick can go into a season with this group.  I think he needs to risk it next year and give up a few draft picks to move up and take a stud WR in the first round or in a trade.  The  Falcons did that with  Julio Jones, and Seahawks did it with  Percy Harvin.   You almost have to feel sorry for Brady when you compare this cast to some of the  WR groups that   any top 10 NFL team has.  Even with Gronk back in the mix,  this group is still well below other elite NFL teams.

    Why not bring back B. Lloyd , at the very least?

     

    Is anyone else worried about the defense?  This is basically the same defense as last year, which was pretty bad.  I just have a feeling this year will be more of what we have seen since 2008,  a below average pass defense and pass rush.   The safety play again looks to be a huge problem.  It is hard to have any confidence in Belichick building a solid defense since they have been so terrible the past 4 years. 

     

    Just look at the recent drafts when it comes down to the secondary.

    2 Tavon Wilson 2012

    2 Ras-I Dowling 2011

    1 Devin McCourty 2010

    2 Patrick Chung 2009

    2 Darius Butler 2009

    2 Terrence Wheatley 2008

    1 Brandon Meriweather 2007

     

    McCourty is the only player who has not been a total disaster.  But even he was moved to Safety after being the worst CB in the league in 2011.  

    Pass Rush continues to be a huge problem. WHen was the last time  the Pats had a good pass rush?  The game against the Bills, they  almost never pressured Manuel,  who is a rookie playing his first game.  

    Do you guys think this defense will be elite? If yes,  what do you base that on? The defense is essentially the same unit from last year.  I think they will look decent against bad offenses, but get destroyed by good offenses.  That has constantly been the case in the past 4-5 years, and I do not expect that to change.   There needs to be an upgrade in the secondary, especially the Safety play.  The constant personnel turnover in the past 4 years proves that there are problems drafting and developing  good  CB's and Safeties. We know Belichick will not spend big on a defensive free agent, especially since the Adalius Thomas flop.  All in all the Patriots are once again stuck with a bad secondary and a defense that cannot stop a good offense when it really matters. 

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from gailwarning. Show gailwarning's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    I think you make some good points.

    I don't think the defense has been the same since we let Richard Seymour go and Tedi Bruschi retired. It's not just a matter of talent- it's about veteran leadership. Nothing can substitute for experience. Damn- I just wish we could muster a formidable pash rush and rely on the secondary a little more!

    About the offense: I think we have to remember that the off season moves and the drafts were made before the Hernandez tragedy. I do agree that letting Welker go was a mistake, but even that looked a little different in a world that included two healthy, capable tight ends. Ridley's taken a step back. He's not decisive moving forward and the fumble was just bone-headed. Vereen, on the other hand, has great vision and movement. I've been waiting for him to evolve into the next Faulk and he seems ready to deliver. Let's hope he's not sidelined too long.

    Nobody's mentioned special teams. Can we please get a couple of guys who can return punts and kickoffs, gain some big yards once in awhile? Other than a jailbreak or two by Edelman in past seasons, this has been a weakness for some time.

     

     




     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to NedNiederlander's comment:

    Another troll thread about these mystery drafts that didn't yield anyone good.

    Arrington was undrafted and good. McCourty, good.  Dennard a possible theft. Logan Ryan looked very good and comfortable in preseason.  

    Enough already with these deflections from when Brady has a subpar game for our team.

    Keep listening to Felger and Mazz as you act all googly eyed in front of your Brady poster, kid.

    Ugh.

    Brady could throw 4 INTs and people would still do this crap, apparently.

     




     

    How did Brady have a sub par game? Only glaring error was the fumble on goal line.  Sudfeld was to blame for the interception.  Did you see the pressure he was under the whole game?  Did you see who he was throwing to?  It does not get worse than this current receiving group.  Whole game was to Amendola and Edelman. No way they last a whole season if they get beat up like that.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    I stop reading at 'First, I think getting rid of Welker was a huge mistake.'.  They offered a contract twice, and he didn't take it.  Welker left.  End of story.  New guys need to step up.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    Does this mean the Patriots aren't the week 1 champions?

    I'm not worried yet. Concerned maybe that the youngins won't be up to snuff but the upside is high. The defense looks good so far but we'll see.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    I don't worry about sports.  I hope Brady can turn this rag-tag receiver corps into servicable players.  If they win more than 10 games, they should rename Foxboro "Bradytown".

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    NO

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    NO




    Ditto

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    No not worried, yet. This team has talent. and no matter which way you slice it the D looks good. only knock on them is they didnt have a consistent pass rush at all and some bad coverage of RBs out of the backfield. But, overall they gave up 14 points. 7 of which were on a shortened field, so pretty much they gave up one bad drive all game. THey consistently got off the field on third down and game the O the ball back over and over. Love what i saw in general, obviously it could be better but they looked better than last year already.

    The offense... Growing pains. thats all it was. Amendola (if healthy) could be the real deal (no drop *cough* Wes) and getting Gronk back will open up alot for us. The fresh WRs (KT, Dobson, Boyce) need to get more game action with Brady and eventually they will all be fluent. if by week 5,6 we arent seeing a huge step forward we then need to be worried about the team. But for now, still with them they will come around.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    Yes - the sky is falling. I am thinking about rooting for a different team this year.

    hmmm.. How about them Jets? fantastic offense, killer defense..and what a classy HC..

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    The defense is better this year.

    They stiffened up  in the 4th against Buffalo.

    Brady led a game winning drive @ end of 4th qrtr.

     

    I actually prefer to win close games at the beginning of the season. It builds toughness.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    Worried?

    To borrow a phrase: I got 99 problems, but a football team aint one.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    Remember when the Pats winning ugly games was the norm.

    Driving down the field in the final 2 minutes for a Vinitieri field goal.  That didn't only happen in the playoffs.  That happened alot in the regular season.  

    I'm not worried about the Pats. 

    Wait.  What are we supposed to be worried about? 

    That the Pats won't win the Superbowl? 

    Well, no guarranties of that happening anyway so no reason to be worried.

    Just sit back and enjoy the season.  Watch this team get better as the season goes on.

    Remember it's not how you start but how you finish.  Right?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?


    I like this guy Rally. Says it straight. We've picked up a ton of wagoners over the years of success and of course they are jumping ship after a struggle of a game (which was a good win). they are hopping off like the building was on fire. The defense looks good. they seem to be really maturing and the offense had growing pains, thats it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to Salcon's comment:

    Remember when the Pats winning ugly games was the norm.

    Driving down the field in the final 2 minutes for a Vinitieri field goal.  That didn't only happen in the playoffs.  That happened alot in the regular season.  

    I'm not worried about the Pats. 

    Wait.  What are we supposed to be worried about? 

    That the Pats won't win the Superbowl? 

    Well, no guarranties of that happening anyway so no reason to be worried.

    Just sit back and enjoy the season.  Watch this team get better as the season goes on.

    Remember it's not how you start but how you finish.  Right?



    Pretty much right on all counts. Remember the 22 game (or whatever it was) winning streak? The average margin of victory was like 4 points or something. Winning ugly is still winning. Winning an opening game on the road, with a team that is just figuring it out, what's the problem people?

    Patriots fans are a spoiled, cranky lot. Always looking for the dark cloud, the heck with the silver lining.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    Patriots fans are a spoiled, cranky lot. Always looking for the dark cloud, the heck with the silver lining.



    Yes, we're very spoiled.  That most recent Superbowl victory at the beginning of George W. Bush's second term has ruined us.

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    A few things Spetz: 

    I agree with the gist of your post except: "First, I think getting rid of Welker was a huge mistake"

    I don't see the evidence of that so far. Amendola if he is healthy will be better than Welker, and even last Sunday he may have made some plays Welker coudln't. Amendola and Edelman more than compensated for Welker this last Sunday. 

    That may be different this Thursday if Amendola can't play, then it will come down to Edelman which is a lot to ask of him even though I like his game. 

    But i think you're premature on that assessment. Also the Pats did not get rid of Welker, that was a mutual parting of ways if I ever saw one. 

    A far bigger problem is surrounding Brady with rookies on the wideout slots. The NFL games I have watched so far reminded me how impactful big play wide receivers can be - the kind Belichick doesn't think we need to pay a premium for. That's a far bigger problem than Welker.

    Don't even bother arguing with Rusty about Brady. I thought maybe he was just unreasonable, expecting Brady to win when his line can't protect him and he has no one to throw to, but he's actually just become an anti-Brady troll. Too bad, he used to be a smart football guy in here. 

    I"m not a fan of worrying, so no, I don't worry. What I do know is we don't have a championship level team right now. I also know that we could, by the end of the year, and our schedule and conference is favorable enough that we could round into shape. Time will tell. 

     

         
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    " like this guy Rally. Says it straight."

    Except if the goal is simply to cheer on the team, what is there to discuss? 

    What Rally has not answered is why you would go to a discussion forum if not to debate your team. That's what we do here. 

    This is not some kind of true fan versus false fan validation system - it's a forum. 

    "Growing pains" is only possible because we are lucky to have a very soft schedule to start out. If you go 0-3 it's very hard to get better. So yeah, it doesn't make sense to jump off the bandwagon because our schedule is soft enough to give us a chance. I prefer to discuss issues with fans who can acknowledge such realities, but all are welcome here and no "Rally loyalty oath" is required. 

    Band wagon fans wouldn't even know how to find this forum, it is buried deep in Boston.com. 

         
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    " like this guy Rally. Says it straight."

    Except if the goal is simply to cheer on the team, what is there to discuss? 

    What Rally has not answered is why you would go to a discussion forum if not to debate your team. That's what we do here. 

    This is not some kind of true fan versus false fan validation system - it's a forum. 

    "Growing pains" is only possible because we are lucky to have a very soft schedule to start out. If you go 0-3 it's very hard to get better. So yeah, it doesn't make sense to jump off the bandwagon because our schedule is soft enough to give us a chance. I prefer to discuss issues with fans who can acknowledge such realities, but all are welcome here and no "Rally loyalty oath" is required. 

    Band wagon fans wouldn't even know how to find this forum, it is buried deep in Boston.com. 

         




    That's Rally's 2nd account.  He posted the exact same post above in a different thread and I exposed him on it here... Check it out.

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/you-just-dont-understand-this-is-how-we-do-it/100/6805819?page=4

    Rally is a fraud.  Nothing he says can be trusted now.  He has been exposed as a fraud.  A troll.  He was never an ex pro player or ex CFL player. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    NO



    Ditto

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll see your ditto and raise you a ditto.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    " like this guy Rally. Says it straight."

    Except if the goal is simply to cheer on the team, what is there to discuss? 

    What Rally has not answered is why you would go to a discussion forum if not to debate your team. That's what we do here. 

    This is not some kind of true fan versus false fan validation system - it's a forum. 

    "Growing pains" is only possible because we are lucky to have a very soft schedule to start out. If you go 0-3 it's very hard to get better. So yeah, it doesn't make sense to jump off the bandwagon because our schedule is soft enough to give us a chance. I prefer to discuss issues with fans who can acknowledge such realities, but all are welcome here and no "Rally loyalty oath" is required. 

    Band wagon fans wouldn't even know how to find this forum, it is buried deep in Boston.com. 

         




    That's Rally's 2nd account.  He posted the exact same post above in a different thread and I exposed him on it here... Check it out.

     

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/you-just-dont-understand-this-is-how-we-do-it/100/6805819?page=4

    Rally is a fraud.  Nothing he says can be trusted now.  He has been exposed as a fraud.  A troll.  He was never an ex pro player or ex CFL player. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I really don't care who Rally is, I like his take on the Pats. Much more optomistic than yours. Much more in line with my feeling that the youth movement is great and, contrary to all the contrarians like you, will set Brady up in the best possible way for his last years in the league.

    There are plenty of things to discuss without constantly denigrating the team. Like if the rooks weren't let down by the shoes they were wearing, do you think they would have perfomed better. How about a topic like, have they loosened up on the interpretation of illegal contact? Because even my son couldn't believe how much Thompkins was getting held and manhandled the first few series.

    And just to give you a clue, this is, as you said, a discussion forum. It is not a debate forum. This place shouldn't be about who wins or loses an argument, matter of fact this place shouldn't be about competiton between posters at all. This aspect, debate/competition, has driven an awful lot of posters away. A lot of posters that I respected and enjoyed reading their points of view. It is also what leads to all the name calling and all the childish behavior on here. All of which stifles discussion.


    Why shouldn't he post the same thing in multiple threads? You do it! Oh, you change the words a little but you say the same thing in multiple threads.

    Lastly, calling fraud means he wins the debate. If you have to go into technicalities like calling fraud, your premise didn't have a leg to stand on. It also smacks of smug elitism.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Are you worried about the Patriots?

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    I know many are saying that the Patriots will take time to get in sync and then they will be hitting on all cylinders.  I am hoping that  is the case but not entirely optimistic.  There are a lot of worrying signs and they are obvious to everyone.


    First, I think getting rid of Welker was a huge mistake. We know Amendola is a good player and can be productive. However everyone knows he is injury prone.  We are replacing one of most durable players in Welker with an injury prone player like Amendola. The way he plays and the kind of hits he takes is hard to watch.  There is no way he lasts the whole season playing like this, especially when he is the only real legitimate target has so far. 

    We all know the pathetic track record the Patriots have in developing young receivers. That should give us pause when expecting  someone Kendrell Thompkins or Dobson to be studs. People forget hhe was not even drafted, so there are still plenty of doubts about him. I believe Dobson could not even beat out Edelman in the camp?  I would have thought the expectations would be higher than that.  It is almost painful to look at the current group of receivers that the Patriots have.  If Amendola goes down, this is without a doubt the worst group in the NFL by far.  Just don't know how Belichick can go into a season with this group.  I think he needs to risk it next year and give up a few draft picks to move up and take a stud WR in the first round or in a trade.  The  Falcons did that with  Julio Jones, and Seahawks did it with  Percy Harvin.   You almost have to feel sorry for Brady when you compare this cast to some of the  WR groups that   any top 10 NFL team has.  Even with Gronk back in the mix,  this group is still well below other elite NFL teams.

    Why not bring back B. Lloyd , at the very least?

     

    Is anyone else worried about the defense?  This is basically the same defense as last year, which was pretty bad.  I just have a feeling this year will be more of what we have seen since 2008,  a below average pass defense and pass rush.   The safety play again looks to be a huge problem.  It is hard to have any confidence in Belichick building a solid defense since they have been so terrible the past 4 years. 

     

    Just look at the recent drafts when it comes down to the secondary.

    2 Tavon Wilson 2012

    2 Ras-I Dowling 2011

    1 Devin McCourty 2010

    2 Patrick Chung 2009

    2 Darius Butler 2009

    2 Terrence Wheatley 2008

    1 Brandon Meriweather 2007

     

    McCourty is the only player who has not been a total disaster.  But even he was moved to Safety after being the worst CB in the league in 2011.  

    Pass Rush continues to be a huge problem. WHen was the last time  the Pats had a good pass rush?  The game against the Bills, they  almost never pressured Manuel,  who is a rookie playing his first game.  

    Do you guys think this defense will be elite? If yes,  what do you base that on? The defense is essentially the same unit from last year.  I think they will look decent against bad offenses, but get destroyed by good offenses.  That has constantly been the case in the past 4-5 years, and I do not expect that to change.   There needs to be an upgrade in the secondary, especially the Safety play.  The constant personnel turnover in the past 4 years proves that there are problems drafting and developing  good  CB's and Safeties. We know Belichick will not spend big on a defensive free agent, especially since the Adalius Thomas flop.  All in all the Patriots are once again stuck with a bad secondary and a defense that cannot stop a good offense when it really matters. 

     




    Slow day on the job at ESPN there Spetznaz24 ?

     

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