As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    i believe we can get as much production with less $ or more production for the same $.

    lloyd does not separate at all most of teh time, and when he does and ctacehs a ball, he often falls to the turf.

    if we need to find cap room this is one place i look.

    will brady, mankins, or wilfork help re cap space (restructure).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    i believe we can get as much production with less $ or more production for the same $.

    lloyd does not separate at all most of teh time, and when he does and ctacehs a ball, he often falls to the turf.

    if we need to find cap room this is one place i look.

    will brady, mankins, or wilfork help re cap space (restructure).



    I think cutting Lloyd costs 500k against the cap and results in $5 mil of dead money. So cutting Lloyd makes the situation worse

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    My understanding is that Lloyd's cap cost this year is $4.5 million or so, which seems okay for his level of production.  I wouldn't cut him.  I'm not sure what the cap cost of cutting him would be, but I think it's at least $2 million in dead money this year, based on the prorated value of his (reported) $3 million signing bonus.  Not sure if there are any other guaranteed amounts that need to be accounted for. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    My understanding is that Lloyd's cap cost this year is $4.5 million or so, which seems okay for his level of production.  I wouldn't cut him.  I'm not sure what the cap cost of cutting him would be, but I think it's at least $2 million in dead money this year, based on the prorated value of his (reported) $3 million signing bonus.  Not sure if there are any other guaranteed amounts that need to be accounted for. 



    it was 3 million guaranteed on original contract of 12 mil.

    i dont know the dead money, id think 2 mil or less.

    agree with the concept releasing welker may make offense better

    do need a big outside guy who can separate (draft)

    if fork, mankins or brady restructure, could keep lloyd

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    Lloyd is good value. Get Brady under Center, pretend 2007 never happened and run the offense like you did, pre 2005.

    Lloyd will be more productive in 2013 if they let Welker walk. 

    I am afraid we'll never see another SB with Brady if Welker stays and Brady keeps scanning for his binky over and over.




    Are you saying BB is too stupid to demand Brady be under center often enough dumbkoff?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    Lloyd is good value. Get Brady under Center, pretend 2007 never happened and run the offense like you did, pre 2005.

    Lloyd will be more productive in 2013 if they let Welker walk. 

    I am afraid we'll never see another SB with Brady if Welker stays and Brady keeps scanning for his binky over and over.

     




    Are you saying BB is too stupid to demand Brady be under center often enough dumbkoff?

     



    Rusty thinks the shotgun formation is radix malorum.  Plus he has this crazy idea that we should cut all the good receivers because Brady gets too dependent on them.  I don't know, I think it might work better to get more good receivers, not fewer.  But that's just me . . . 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to mia76's comment:

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?



    +1

    im for the big wr in the draft.

    smarter to shift money in top 3 contracts than drop llloyd. but if necessry, he aint doing too much for the 4.5 mil imo.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    Lloyd is good value. Get Brady under Center, pretend 2007 never happened and run the offense like you did, pre 2005.

    Lloyd will be more productive in 2013 if they let Welker walk. 

    I am afraid we'll never see another SB with Brady if Welker stays and Brady keeps scanning for his binky over and over.



    Dumb. We were one dropped pass away from winning a Super Bowl against a team that quite frankly was better built than ours...all courtesy of Brady throwing out of shotgun and scanning "for his binky". What IS missing is a defense that can play with the big boys....here's to hoping we get it right this offseason, unlike the previous other five in a row rebuilding this defense.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    I kind of look at this Lloyd situation as, why bother? Why bother to cut him - he's half decent and there certainly is no guarantee that we could do better getting someone else in there. At least you know what you get with him...a guy that will give you a very pedestrian 60-70 catches and maybe 3-5 touchdowns. Yeah he won't run after the catch, separate, get deep, catch the ball over the middle, or fight for extra yards, but after the duds we've brought in to play receiver over the last seven years...this guy is awesome.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    My recollection is that he has a bonus of $3 mil that comes due if he's on the roster as of some date this year (don't remember when exactly) and if he's cut before then it's $4.5 mil in cap relief this year. That's why he could get cut. Could also get re-signed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    My recollection is that he has a bonus of $3 mil that comes due if he's on the roster as of some date this year (don't remember when exactly) and if he's cut before then it's $4.5 mil in cap relief this year. That's why he could get cut. Could also get re-signed.



    yup

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I kind of look at this Lloyd situation as, why bother? Why bother to cut him - he's half decent and there certainly is no guarantee that we could do better getting someone else in there. At least you know what you get with him...a guy that will give you a very pedestrian 60-70 catches and maybe 3-5 touchdowns. Yeah he won't run after the catch, separate, get deep, catch the ball over the middle, or fight for extra yards, but after the duds we've brought in to play receiver over the last seven years...this guy is awesome.



    why is if cap space is needed where else woudl you cut. if you cant restructure brady, fork, volmer, it may be tough

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I kind of look at this Lloyd situation as, why bother? Why bother to cut him - he's half decent and there certainly is no guarantee that we could do better getting someone else in there. At least you know what you get with him...a guy that will give you a very pedestrian 60-70 catches and maybe 3-5 touchdowns. Yeah he won't run after the catch, separate, get deep, catch the ball over the middle, or fight for extra yards, but after the duds we've brought in to play receiver over the last seven years...this guy is awesome.

     



    why is if cap space is needed where else woudl you cut. if you cant restructure brady, fork, volmer, it may be tough

     



    Do we need cap space? We have like 14 million. I hear the kicker has a three  million cap number, I think he's a good kicker...not great. I bet if we needed cap space they could go to Brady and Wilfork for some relief. I just don't want to see us cut players that aren't a problem when we don't have anyone to replace them - and I'm not saying Lloyd isn't replaceable because he is, it's just, why risk it?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I kind of look at this Lloyd situation as, why bother? Why bother to cut him - he's half decent and there certainly is no guarantee that we could do better getting someone else in there. At least you know what you get with him...a guy that will give you a very pedestrian 60-70 catches and maybe 3-5 touchdowns. Yeah he won't run after the catch, separate, get deep, catch the ball over the middle, or fight for extra yards, but after the duds we've brought in to play receiver over the last seven years...this guy is awesome.

     



    why is if cap space is needed where else woudl you cut. if you cant restructure brady, fork, volmer, it may be tough

     

     



    Do we need cap space? We have like 14 million. I hear the kicker has a three  million cap number, I think he's a good kicker...not great. I bet if we needed cap space they could go to Brady and Wilfork for some relief. I just don't want to see us cut players that aren't a problem when we don't have anyone to replace them - and I'm not saying Lloyd isn't replaceable because he is, it's just, why risk it?

     



    i hear you. if fork, brady, m,ankins are spoken to and say no, and we need space, that may be the next place we could get a chunk. this was my speculation

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    it was his first season as a patriot and he was solid. i don't know about everyone else, but i watched every pats game and i lost count of how many time's brady just flat out missed lloyd on wide open throws.. especially the last couple games where brady threw everything into the dirt. lloyd is the only WR under contract right now.



    good to know, with my vantage point i was not able to see what you are describing. 

    still def need big outside wr who cna separate and snag.

    may need to restructure someone.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to mia76's comment:

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?



    This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

    2013

    Base salary-$1.9 mil

    pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

    cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

    2014

    Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

     



    This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

     

    2013

    Base salary-$1.9 mil

    pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

    cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

    2014

    Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

     



    ^ this

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    I would always consider it wise to cut players who play below their level of compensation...

    I was over Lloyd after week one

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

     



    This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

     

    2013

    Base salary-$1.9 mil

    pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

    cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

    2014

    Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

     



    You misunderstand what I was saying. My understanding is his bonus was 3 million, which for cap purposes would have been prorated to 1 million a year. If you cut him, the remaining two years of prorated bonus would be accelerated resulting in a cap hit (this year, assuming he's cut before July) of 2 million. 

    The numbers you quote are from jetscap.com, but i question their accuracy. The prorated bonus number of 2.5 million per year seems off, especially since even jetscap reports the signing bomus as 3 million. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

     



    This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

     

    2013

    Base salary-$1.9 mil

    pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

    cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

    2014

    Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

     

     



    You misunderstand what I was saying. My understanding is his bonus was 3 million, which for cap purposes would have been prorated to 1 million a year. If you cut him, the remaining two years of prorated bonus would be accelerated resulting in a cap hit (this year, assuming he's cut before July) of 2 million. 

     

    The numbers you quote are from jetscap.com, but i question their accuracy. The prorated bonus number of 2.5 million per year seems off, especially since even jetscap reports the signing bomus as 3 million. 



    How does cutting him push any savings to 2014? 

    Source is spotrac;

      BASE SALARY S. BONUS MISC. BONUS CAP HIT 2012 900,000 1,000,000 100,000 2,000,000 2013 1,900,000 1,000,000 1,600,000 4,500,000 2014 2,900,000 1,000,000 1,600,000 5,500,000

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: As i suggested in a another thread, it may be wise given the cap to drop lloyd, mike reiss speculates the same today

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

     



    This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

     

    2013

    Base salary-$1.9 mil

    pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

    cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

    2014

    Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

     

     



    You misunderstand what I was saying. My understanding is his bonus was 3 million, which for cap purposes would have been prorated to 1 million a year. If you cut him, the remaining two years of prorated bonus would be accelerated resulting in a cap hit (this year, assuming he's cut before July) of 2 million. 

     

    The numbers you quote are from jetscap.com, but i question their accuracy. The prorated bonus number of 2.5 million per year seems off, especially since even jetscap reports the signing bomus as 3 million. 

     



     



    That did not copy well, but Lloyd has a signing bonus due of $1 mil in 2013 and 2014 and misc bonus each year of $1.6 mil each year

     
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