In response to rkarp's comment:

In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

In response to rkarp's comment:

In response to mia76's comment:

With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

2013

Base salary-$1.9 mil

pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

2014

Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

You misunderstand what I was saying. My understanding is his bonus was 3 million, which for cap purposes would have been prorated to 1 million a year. If you cut him, the remaining two years of prorated bonus would be accelerated resulting in a cap hit (this year, assuming he's cut before July) of 2 million. 

The numbers you quote are from jetscap.com, but i question their accuracy. The prorated bonus number of 2.5 million per year seems off, especially since even jetscap reports the signing bomus as 3 million. 

That did not copy well, but Lloyd has a signing bonus due of $1 mil in 2013 and 2014 and misc bonus each year of $1.6 mil each year

In response to mia76's comment:

With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

2013

Base salary-$1.9 mil

pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

2014

Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

In response to rkarp's comment:

In response to mia76's comment:

With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

2013

Base salary-$1.9 mil

pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

2014

Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

Guess it depends where you're getting your numbers from.  This is what I found (rotoworld):

3/17/12: Signed a three-year, $12 million contract. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus,  Annual $100,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life. 2013: $1.9 million (+ $3 million option bonus), 2014: $2.9 million, 2015: Free Agent

So, his contract was $6.3 mil in bonuses and $5.7 in salary. His '14 salary is $1.9 plus a $100K workout bonus = $2 mil and he also has a $3 mil option bonus so his cap hit would be either $5 mil or $3.5 mil depending on if the option bonus is prorated or not. And his dead money would be $2 mil if he's cut (the unamortized portion of his signing bonus), so the savings would be either $3 mil or $1.5 mil. I'm not sure how workout bonuses are treated, but they're not very significant.  

In response to Muzwell's comment:

In response to rkarp's comment:

In response to mia76's comment:

With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

2013

Base salary-$1.9 mil

pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

2014

Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

Guess it depends where you're getting your numbers from.  This is what I found (rotoworld):

3/17/12: Signed a three-year, $12 million contract. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus,  Annual $100,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life. 2013: $1.9 million (+ $3 million option bonus), 2014: $2.9 million, 2015: Free Agent

So, his contract was $6.3 mil in bonuses and $5.7 in salary. His '14 salary is $1.9 plus a $100K workout bonus = $2 mil and he also has a $3 mil option bonus so his cap hit would be either $5 mil or $3.5 mil depending on if the option bonus is prorated or not. And his dead money would be $2 mil if he's cut (the unamortized portion of his signing bonus), so the savings would be either $3 mil or $1.5 mil. I'm not sure how workout bonuses are treated, but they're not very significant.  

Muz, if that option bonus is paid, it would be prorated over the remaining life of the contract (so 1.5 million per year in 2013 and 2014).  If it is not paid because he's cut this spring, however, then it wouldn't count against the cap at all unless it is guaranteed.  I haven't heard it's guaranteed--in fact, the idea of guaranteeing an option bonus is a little weird, so I doubt it is a cap problem unless it ends up being paid before he's cut. 

In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

In response to Muzwell's comment:

In response to rkarp's comment:

In response to mia76's comment:

With prorated bonus of 1M each year, the cost to cut is 2M - could be spread over 2013 and 2014. Hard to see them finding a better receiver (except by drafting) for 3.5M in FA which is the cap savings. He wasn't brilliant this year, but they have no one else under contract, and if Welker walks and they find a better WR I could see him taking on more of a slot role?

This is incorrect. You cannot pro rate any money going forward if the player is cut. The team incurs dead money and negative cap savings. 

2013

Base salary-$1.9 mil

pro rated bonus-$2.5 mmil workout bonus-$100k

cap value-$4.5 mil. Dead money-$5 mil. Cap savings-($500k)

2014

Cap value-$5.5mil. Dead money-$2.5 mil. Cap savings-$3 mil

Guess it depends where you're getting your numbers from.  This is what I found (rotoworld):

3/17/12: Signed a three-year, $12 million contract. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus,  Annual $100,000 workout bonuses are available throughout the contract's life. 2013: $1.9 million (+ $3 million option bonus), 2014: $2.9 million, 2015: Free Agent

So, his contract was $6.3 mil in bonuses and $5.7 in salary. His '14 salary is $1.9 plus a $100K workout bonus = $2 mil and he also has a $3 mil option bonus so his cap hit would be either $5 mil or $3.5 mil depending on if the option bonus is prorated or not. And his dead money would be $2 mil if he's cut (the unamortized portion of his signing bonus), so the savings would be either $3 mil or $1.5 mil. I'm not sure how workout bonuses are treated, but they're not very significant.  

Muz, if that option bonus is paid, it would be prorated over the remaining life of the contract (so 1.5 million per year in 2013 and 2014).  If it is not paid because he's cut this spring, however, then it wouldn't count against the cap at all unless it is guaranteed.  I haven't heard it's guaranteed--in fact, the idea of guaranteeing an option bonus is a little weird, so I doubt it is a cap problem unless it ends up being paid before he's cut. 

That makes sense. So the savings this year would be $2 mil (salary + workout bonus) + $3 mil (option bonus) minus $2 mil (dead money) = $3 mil. Right?

i guess none of you guys watched the afc title game closely.....lloyd was fantastic! he made great catch after great catch, and he had a good season. as a result, you want to cut him? i swear, if we had jerry rice, you people wouldnt be satisfied.

i guess none of you guys watched the afc title game closely.....lloyd was fantastic! he made great catch after great catch, and he had a good season. as a result, you want to cut him? i swear, if we had jerry rice, you people wouldnt be satisfied.

In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

i guess none of you guys watched the afc title game closely.....lloyd was fantastic! he made great catch after great catch, and he had a good season. as a result, you want to cut him? i swear, if we had jerry rice, you people wouldnt be satisfied.

And he'd be better with Brady under center more and another quality flanker on the other side. Let Welker go and sign Hartline to a similar kind of deal as Lloyd's, maybe 2 years longer.

Something tells me we haven't seen the best of Lloyd quite yet.   I expect a better year next year and at good market value, too.

My confusion is this. If you started this on another thread, and it was read and probably discussed, already many times. Why start another? Answer me this, please.

In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

i guess none of you guys watched the afc title game closely.....lloyd was fantastic! he made great catch after great catch, and he had a good season. as a result, you want to cut him? i swear, if we had jerry rice, you people wouldnt be satisfied.

People think 75 reception WR grow on trees and cost nothing. Was he a savior or did he have a Randy Moss kind of first year - no. But he was a lot better than a lot of other options and his price was very reasonable (and continues to be.) And cutting him means you have to replace him with another player and you have at least 1M less in cap space to do it. Outside of rookie contracts there aren't a whole lot of brilliant WRs out there at 3.5M/yr.

Lloyd was fine as a #2 or #3 receiver.  He was limited in what he could do and had too many drops, but defenses still had to worry about him because he also made some nice receptions.  I think he was a lot more effective than Branch has been over the past two years.  Still, he wasn't the downfield threat we really needed.  I'd keep him, get another downfield receiver, and figure out what to do with Welker/Edelman/etc in the slot.  I'd want to go into the season with a three-man rotation at the position, plus one or two depth guys, plus Slater (five to six roster spots).  

Just on the 'cap hit' part of this discussion - teams can designate a cut player as a June xx cut - not sure of the exact date, but it allows a team to spread dead money equally between the current year and the following year so yes dead money can be manipulated somewhat.

I am not sure what the option bonus is and what kind of guarantees are in the contract (nor does any other source based on the widely different dead money numbers from different sites.) But, I do know this...

There are no interesting FA WRs available that are looking for a contract in the 3.5M range which is the maximum available salary saving from cutting Lloyd. And a few facts:

In comparison to Dieon Branch - his production in 2012 (first year with Brady) was better than any year Branch has produced since 2005 by a huge amount and comparable to Branch's 2005 numbers - after which Branch signed a huge contract in Seattle.

In comparison to all receiver including TE, he ranked 28th in yds and 22 in catches. And most if not all of tthe receivers above him were either playing on rookie contracts or getting paid a heck of a lot more than he was.

People here complain that the Pats pass too much and should run more. Not sure how many passes you want Brady to attempt, but given that the Pats offense was number one in yds and points and number 4 in passing, not sure how much more production you need. And when you have your other WR with 118 receptions, your TEs combining for over 110, and your RBs at over 50 have Lloyd come in with 74 seems pretty amazing!

Finally - do not have the numbers to prove it, but it certainly seemed he got more production in the second half of the year than the first as he and TB got more comfortable with each other. Seems to me the Pats got pretty much what they expected from Lloyd. We could all hope he was a huge down field threat, but he never has been a Randy Moss type WR.

And besides finding someone in the draft, I just don't see anyone in the same ball park on production available at his price. And as for current roster ... there are no WRs except Slater currently.