Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    For the most part - fans talk about the offense and McD - obviously, the most fun part of the game to watch.  We may talk about the defense - and for the past several years - fans have clamored for a Defensive Coordinator.  So, the Patriots have Matt Patricia.  How is he doing? Thoughts, anyone? 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    I really don't know who or what you blame when you talk about the defense of this team. Is it the players? I tend to think that's the case, but you do wonder if maybe it's more than that. I usually don't go that route because I believe Belichick is the best coach in the history of football and I've got to think he's got his hands all over this defense with Matt...so I'm going to say it's the players.

    Personally I'd like to see more pressure and better coverage - perhaps some interresting blitzes, etc, but I've got to think there's a reason they don't do those things. It's tough to blitz when you don't have safeties that can cover or guys that don't turn their heads when running with receivers. They also have line backers that are poor in coverage too...so what are you going to do? Plus outside of Chandler Jones there is really no one that gets to the QB consistently...maybe Nink on occasion, but he's a liability in his own right in certain situations.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    But isn't Patricia supposed to be designing the defensive game plans against teams and having an idea of what the playing style is?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    Thats right Bubba. The Pats have many good players on D but few individual game changers who are up front. They play a lot better as a team now and do create turnovers. I think Mayo is the one miked up and the communication seems dim in the backend with people out of position and so on.

    Need to work on technique, and communicate cohesively. A game changer will come in as a Rook and you will see a big difference back there, there are so many years you can wait for people to learn how to defend, ya know?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    For example Bubba, Manning threw a TD pass to Deeson(sic) 7 yards deep in the end zone and instead of making an attempt at the ball McCourty decides to tackle the guy hoping for a fumble after the guy already had secured the ball. Translation: This means MCCourty was way too late, out of position and nowhere near the guy. AND McCourty never knew where the ball was .....he never looked if you see the replay tape. Of course this happens to the best of them at times but it Happens a lot in the open field ... it seems they just don't understand that the ball is righfully theirs as well ...really...that's the way I see it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    I think you are what the stats say you are and other than the ability to create turn overs. (and we all know what happens when they don't get any) they don't look very good.

    Looks too much like last years team to me, without Carter and Anderson.  Jones and Hghtower have the ability to be great but there is still a learning curve they need to overcome.  Jones needs to learn to take advantage of all those holds and starting getting penalties out of it so that teams think better of it.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    I think Patricia is another BB OJT clone. Lacking outstanding talent, 6 years of experience isn't apt to give you an exceptional coach.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    I think it's very hard to assess coordinators, because it's hard to tell how much the game planning and play calling is dictated by the strengths and weaknesses (both physical and mental) of the players and how much is simply the choice of the coordinator.  Without going back and looking at lots of film, it seems to me that the defense has been a little "vanilla" this year.  However, it's also been more effective, I think, than it was last year.  Are the "vanilla" defensive calls the result of having a lot of young players who are still learning the play book and who are not ready to do more complex stuff yet?  Or is it a lack of creativity on the part of the coordinator? It's hard to tell.  Similarly is the increase in effectiveness of the defense a result of the coaching or just an improvement in talent? I think the talent is better, but younger and less experienced, so any assessment of the coordinator will depend on what you assume about the talents' abilities.  I think because of that, it will require more time to make a determination, since we need time to assess the players' skills and development rates as well as observe the evolution of the play calling and game planning over the course of the season.  

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, what do you think of the Pats' recent coordinators on both offense and defense?  How much impact do you think they have (or did have)?  And do you think they are (or were) good or bad.  I'd be interested in your perspective because if I remember right you have some firsthand knowledge of the team. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    You wont be able to access the D till late in the year and therefore the best you can do is access whether they are playing well considering the stage they are in in their development.

    Overall the D is sound. THe have one of the better run D's. Their pass rush and pass D is improved over this point last year and there are a number of new players (2 new safeties, a rookie DB just starting to see the field, a second year DB who is essentially a rookie, a rookie LB, a rookie DE...).

    At this point they need better pass rush and better pass coverage but the thing, at this stage, that is troubling is that they appear to be coached not to turn to see the ball. I wonder if the DB coach should be fired for that.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For example Bubba, Manning threw a TD pass to Deeson(sic) 7 yards deep in the end zone and instead of making an attempt at the ball McCourty decides to tackle the guy hoping for a fumble after the guy already had secured the ball. Translation: This means MCCourty was way too late, out of position and nowhere near the guy. AND McCourty never knew where the ball was .....he never looked if you see the replay tape. Of course this happens to the best of them at times but it Happens a lot in the open field ... it seems they just don't understand that the ball is righfully theirs as well ...really...that's the way I see it.

    [/QUOTE]


    Josh Boyer has be the DVB/CB coach since 2008. This has been a consistent problem in the secondary for a while now. How Come Patricia is'nt shaking that tree a little....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    and why does BB/recruiting team always chooses mini mees for CBs and safeties. You'd think that he'd have a taller CB to deal w/ some of those taller WRs that we have a problem with.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think it's very hard to assess coordinators, because it's hard to tell how much the game planning and play calling is dictated by the strengths and weaknesses (both physical and mental) of the players and how much is simply the choice of the coordinator.  Without going back and looking at lots of film, it seems to me that the defense has been a little "vanilla" this year.  However, it's also been more effective, I think, than it was last year.  Are the "vanilla" defensive calls the result of having a lot of young players who are still learning the play book and who are not ready to do more complex stuff yet?  Or is it a lack of creativity on the part of the coordinator? It's hard to tell.  Similarly is the increase in effectiveness of the defense a result of the coaching or just an improvement in talent? I think the talent is better, but younger and less experienced, so any assessment of the coordinator will depend on what you assume about the talents' abilities.  I think because of that, it will require more time to make a determination, since we need time to assess the players' skills and development rates as well as observe the evolution of the play calling and game planning over the course of the season.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think they are being coached up as far as the ball hawking skills; which I'm not complaining about because, IMO, it's the takeaways that potentially can improve field position for this offense. Don't like the fact that the Patriots are in the middle of the pack as far as points against....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    Josh Boyer

    http://www.patriots.com/media-center/audio/Josh-Boyer-Interview---6132012/0340d491-4f6a-44b0-8441-87e00e7803a8

    how does one coach the DBs on when to look back for the ball?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

    [/QUOTE]


    seems that the patriots have been rebuilding for such a long time on defense.  Is it the coaching, drafting, off-season acquisitions, or just players that aren't good enough? Do you think that this defense can eventually win some games for the patriots when things aren't going their way on offense?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

    [/QUOTE]

    To me they are a carbon copy of last year's defense - the same problems/depth - with the exception of high upside in Jones and Hightower. They needed Fenene (or someone like him) to come up big in free agency...they swung and missed miserably...if Myron Pryor can come back and stay healthy it would help (but that's not going to happen). Brace can officialy be called a major league bust...Cunningham is almost there and Chung is not far behind. Those three have killed this defensive "rebuilding project". 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

    [/QUOTE]

    To me they are a carbon copy of last year's defense - the same problems/depth - with the exception of high upside in Jones and Hightower. They needed Fenene (or someone like him) to come up big in free agency...they swung and missed miserably...if Myron Pryor can come back and stay healthy it would help (but that's not going to happen). Brace can officialy be called a major league bust...Cunningham is almost there and Chung is not far behind. Those three have killed this defensive "rebuilding project". 

    [/QUOTE]

    so, would you say the D, overall, is performing better, worse, or the same as last year?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

    [/QUOTE]

    To me they are a carbon copy of last year's defense - the same problems/depth - with the exception of high upside in Jones and Hightower. They needed Fenene (or someone like him) to come up big in free agency...they swung and missed miserably...if Myron Pryor can come back and stay healthy it would help (but that's not going to happen). Brace can officialy be called a major league bust...Cunningham is almost there and Chung is not far behind. Those three have killed this defensive "rebuilding project". 

    [/QUOTE]

    so, would you say the D, overall, is performing better, worse, or the same as last year?

    [/QUOTE]

    The same. Six of one, half a dozen of the other right? They added players but let players go. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:

    seems that the patriots have been rebuilding for such a long time on defense.  Is it the coaching, drafting, off-season acquisitions, or just players that aren't good enough? Do you think that this defense can eventually win some games for the patriots when things aren't going their way on offense?

     

    If it was that easy to build a defense every team would do it. This defense lacks the playmakers it had with the championship teams. They were one or two plays from winning it all last year. Hopefully, someone or two will step up this year when the big game is on the line.

    Edit: I meant to add that it's all on the players.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like his playcalling for the most part. 

    There are only a few instances where I scratch my head. 

    As it usually is ... execution is the major issue when a team fails. There are always far, far more situations when you can say ... if that player gets his head around, or doesn't commit a penalty, or something else. Catches the ball, make a better decision. Gets off his block. Every game is filled with dozens of dozens of these things. Switching it up to 'blitz' 3-4 more times a game will ultimately have a nominal impact on the total outcome. 

    And this defense so far looks about the same as last season. Middle of the pack in points allowed. Near the bottom in rating. Bottom five in yards allowed. Mediocre in TOP/3 and outs. Terrible in 3rd down percentage. 

    There are too many blown responsibilites. Not enough pressure. The weak outer edges puts pressure on an otherwise outstanding core. If Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, etc, don't play a great game look out. If the offense doesn't put up 30 points, look out. He11 ... they lost even when they DID put up thirty points. 

    [/QUOTE]


    seems that the patriots have been rebuilding for such a long time on defense.  Is it the coaching, drafting, off-season acquisitions, or just players that aren't good enough? Do you think that this defense can eventually win some games for the patriots when things aren't going their way on offense?

    [/QUOTE]

    ??

    Go run the Patriots record when they score less than 24 points. I think they've come away with two or three wins that way in the last four or five seasons. 

    No. I have zero faith this defense can hold a team to less than 20 if the offense isn't scoring 24 or more. They hold them lower in big time blowouts where the other team is forced to pass. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The same. Six of one, half a dozen of the other right? They added players but let players go. 

    [/QUOTE]

    so, what would the Patriots have to do in the future to help the defense? would you focus on another DE/OLB type to match Jones on the other side, or would you try to pick up another defensive back?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, what do you think of the Pats' recent coordinators on both offense and defense?  How much impact do you think they have (or did have)?  And do you think they are (or were) good or bad.  I'd be interested in your perspective because if I remember right you have some firsthand knowledge of the team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, BB dictates defensive philosophy the Pats will play. For instance we know he doesn't like to overload zones, and he doesn't like to blitz often. Petricia will take this philosophy and each game will scheme a plan specifically designed against the opposing team. So Petricia is scheming the game plan, within BB' s desired philosophy. This differs from the Ryan's defensive philosophy of " this is the way we play(over loading zones and pressure) and try to stop us". It worked for Rex when Revis and Cro were on top of their game  allowing for overloaded zones. It did not work for Rob when he didn't have CB coverage. 

    Contrary to this board, I thought both OB and McD are outstanding. The offense is always prepared and makes few mental mistakes. If you make mental mistakes, you don't play(Chad Johnson). The physical mistakes ( mostly Oline) are highly stressed during the week and coached vigorously during the week for improvement. I also think that 50% of the actual offensive plays that are run, are check offs from Brady. So while McD and OB are criticized for plays called or not called, it is actually Brady that either ran or didn't the play called. Of course, Brady has been very successful in his play calling and reading what the defense will give. 

    A lot has been made of Brady's favorite receiver is the one who is open. That is baloney. Brady's first, second and third reads are on the receivers he KNOWS will be in the right place in the route. Even if covered like a blanket, Brady still throws the ball, usually back shoulder, knowing the receiver is in the right place to make a play on the ball. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    Posters here and most Pat's fans in general (including myself) don't like Belichick's soft zone, 4 man front defense.  They blame the players for the yards given up, but it is a result of the scheme.  This defense needs turnovers to win, it goads the opposing QB into making a mistake and asks our players to strip the ball, force fumbles from opposing runners.  As long as our offense scores more than their offense it won't be a problem.

     
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