At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2011_1105rush_gets_it_together_pats_know_sacks_come_with_team_defense/

    BB quote:
    "Rather than sacks, Belichick wants to see the pass-rush complementing the oft-criticized secondary. That’s more important than any stat."

    Maybe it's the coaching too, not aggressive enough, wrong calls at the wrong time?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    I think they are. I think our LBs, CBs and S's, are the problem. The D-line has been putting oressure on and getting sacks, but there is to much room on the middle being left open. Referr o lt game when issburgh drove down the field and all they did was pass to miller in the "wide open middle part of the field"

    Mayo is not the same as his rookie year, and Ninkovich and Spikes looked like crap last week.


    Right now the best defensive player we have is Big Vince - The Plug
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    When there are more than 2 D Linemen on the field we create a pass rush and stuff the run, unfortunately we only have that much beef on the field for 10% of the defensive snaps, mainly goal-line situations... which explains how we can give up so many yards yet so few points.  Andre Carter is not defensive end at 255 pounds even though he plays there exclusively... 

    We're resigned to playing the 2/4/5 for the remainder of the regular season, here's to hoping BB puts some beef on the field in the playoffs and rushes more than 2-3 guys or it will be a short ride.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    It's a unit and as a unit the best way to help the secondary is to get sacks and prevent the QB from throwing. Now it doesn't matter who is taking doule teams and who gets the sack 9those are individual stats) but as a unit it needs to happen and so far this year it hasn't. The only consistent players so far are Wilfork and Carter.

    Carter is improving every game and Wilfork is consistently putting pressure up the middle, stopping the run, and taking on double teams

    Haynesworth - Has shown all pro ability on some plays and disappears for long stretches the rest of the time

    Ellis - looks like he's ready to retire

    Anderson - is the master of getting sacks on the last plays of games but can't do anything otherwise

    Love - Is a good run stuffer but whether from being held or not just can't get to the next level and put pressure where it needs to be applied

    G Warren - as a role player and run stuffer has excelled but he's not an every down DE and has trouble getting into the backfield.

    We need some youth and speed in this off season infused into this line.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    Dancing with the offensive lineman is not doing enough... they need to dance with the QB!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    "I think BB lacks so much confidence in the secondary, that he causes all parts of the defense to suffer. "

    Unfortunately he's justified in lacking confidence in the secondary.  Sometimes you hit it with undrafted free agents but I think 5 of their 7 DB's are undrafted.  It's just not a talented group.  They don't have a safety other than Chung that should be playing regular snaps.  Ihedigbo, Barrett, and Brown look like like special teamers/backups to me.  Now we're also hoping to get by at CB with other teams' castoffs like Adams and Molden.

    The fact that we're getting nothing right now out of recent high draft picks like Wheatley, Wilhite, Butler, Merriweather, & Dowling while we're playing undrafted guys that other teams have cut is a big problem.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmmyslinski. Show jmmyslinski's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    I have issues with how the defensive line is used.  I think BB lacks so much confidence in the secondary, that he causes all parts of the defense to suffer.  The zone coverage has got to stop... I repeat it has to stop... please make it stop!!  I can't handle watching the Patriots stock defense be "the prevent defense".  I would rather see our corners get burned occasionally, then witness teams wearing the  D down, on long time consuming drives.

    I would like to see more run-blitz oriented rushing, as was utilized in the preseason.  If a defensive lineman can't get around the edge, then bring a corner or safety, as has been done with Arrington on occasion.  Cause some confusion, and just trust the DB's to cover somebody.  They obviously are not picking up this zone package, that is repeatedly abused.

    I guess my point is that our coverage schemes leave a reciever open early and often, making the defensive line unable to produce any negative yardage plays.  No defense would produce a pass rush, with this secondary.  The Patriots need a new secondary coach and system.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    Sure....It's the LB's that are sucking which exposes a weak secondary.  Remember when we had great LB's and were winning Super Bowls with DB's off the street?  Earthwind Moreland anyone.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    It's the whole D really but it ripples out from the line.

    The secondary is horrible but as tcal pointed out with done more with the same amount. If the secondary didn't have to worry about the middle of the field and didn't have to hold coverage for 5+secs on almost every down they would improve.

    One way to help the secondary is to have good LB's hold the middle of the field and provide pressure up the middle or off the edge. Our LB core just can't simply do it. They don't have the talent which is sad. Spikes is a great run stuffing LB with good instincts but you can't rely on him in coverage so you need to surround him with LB's that can cover which leaves him free to utilize his best asset of his instincts where holes will develop. Nin is a good player but he's not a coverage LB and is just above average against the run. Mayo has had trouble spreading himself between trying to cover the entire middle field and guessing which short slant will be the actual pass. Guyton has regressed to the point that he can't cover and can't stop the run.

    One way to improve the LB core is to make QB's panic and rush passes. If QB's don't feel comfortable in the pocket even the short slants are hard to make. Also opening bigger holes and pushing blockers on their heels opens up the opportunity for the LB's to rush making QB's more concerned about where the LB is going to come from then which of his 3-4 options will get open first. The issues is that other then Carter and Wilfork the line can't get any push on a consistent basis. On occasion it will collapse but more times then not we see the right edge being protected by a single T and either rooting the rusher around the QB or working them inside to clog the rushing lanes. With love and Haynesworth the C and G's route them into gaps and I see them blocking the rushing lanes for the LB's. How many times have we seen Spikes start a delayed blitz only to have the gap he's heading for get blocked off by Love or Haynesworth being re-routed into it? I've seen Spikes bounce more off his own DL then of the OL because the DL can't control the gaps

    If the DL could control the gaps and push the OL backwards instead of side to side then the pocket starts to collapse, the QB's eyes start looking at the backs of his OL and the LB's then his receivers, the gaps open up freeing the LB rush to burst through the holes without worry of  running into his own DL, the QB panics and either tosses the ball early or starts to scramble. The secondary now just has to worry about 2-3 secs of coverage and can play on the hip with S's sitting back in zone filling holes in coverage and assisting the middle of the field. But, it all starts up front on the line
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    Another thread on the same topic????

    C'mon Bubba...

    But to answer your question, yes.  Secondary could start helping out. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    D Linemen aren't as bad as the secondary and linebackers. They actually have some talent at the end of the day. The secondary is comprised of mostly retreats and bums nobody even wanted and plenty of that has to do with poor scouting and drafting since they used a ton of picks on them. Mayo is a good linebacker but not a star impact linebacker. The other linebackers are servicable and weak against the pass. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    Haynesworth is getting better and therfore the line is going to be better.

    Mayo is getting healthier and so the LB's will be better

    Brace and Deaderick should be put in positions that match their strongest skills, same with Love and those 3 guys should be used to rest the 3 old guys

    Cunningham isn't be used at all, which is annoying and no answers have been given
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?

    In Response to Re: At This Juncture, Are D-Lineman Doing Enough?:
    [QUOTE]It's the whole D really but it ripples out from the line. Our LB core just can't simply do it. They don't have the talent which is sad.One way to improve the LB core is to make QB's panic and rush passes. Also opening bigger holes and pushing blockers on their heels opens up the opportunity for the LB's to rush making QB's more concerned about where the LB is going to come from then which of his 3-4 options will get open first.  With love and Haynesworth the C and G's route them into gaps and I see them blocking the rushing lanes for the LB's.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Is it because we have all these weaknesses at DL, LB, and secondary....or is it coaching that isn't using them properly or both?
     

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