Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

     In the book, “War Room: The Legacy of Bill Belichick and the Art of Building the Perfect Team” [Michael] Holley writes about Belichick, Kansas City’s Scott Pioli and Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff thoughts on building that perfect team.

    A couple of things in the review caught my attention.

    1. After Dimitroff called Belichick “as a friend,” the mentor advised him not to make the Julio Jones trade. He felt the Falcons should have stayed at No. 27 and picked Pittsburgh’s Jonathan Baldwin. The deal was too pricey for Belichick’s blood.

    Too pricey?  How much money was spent on Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price.  The only WR BB and staff has drafted that are still on the Pats roster is Edelman and Slater, neither of which are starting WR's for the Pats.

    I think this sums it all up as far as the mystery of why the Pats have not developed any WR through the draft.  BB just loves stock piling draft picks, but eventually you have to use them like Atlanta did, because the draft is about quality, not quantity.

    Julio Jones - 755 yds and 5 tds  Jonathan Baldwin 200 yds 1 td.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    I do think Bill gets caught up a little to much in the chase of the deal. He likes to get "value" and there's also an ego effect to a deal maker - you want to look good doing it and be considered the one that got he better of the deal. It's a competitive thing that quite honestly I think has left us empty handed on draft day.

    Having said that, I do think he knows how to evaluate talent as good as anyone. He acquires picks allowing us to go into a draft with fire power that few teams enjoy, but it gets frustrating watching that get squandered on the DEAL rather than just selecting the PLAYER that would help. Where we usually are selecting doesn't help (mid 20's), however some of the recent 2nd round misses have really hurt this team...Butler, Wheatly, Brace, Cunningham...were flat out misses and...Chung, Vollmer, Dawling, Vareen, Vollmer, Spikes...have done little to nothing to help this team THIS year.

    I still think BB the coach makes BB the GM look good, but I will cut the guy some slack because he has found some hidden gems as well. Really I think the free agent market has hurt us a bit as well lately, but again that can come down to a "value" and "I need to get the better of this deal" approach.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    If Belichick made that trade he would have been cyber-lynched on this board. Two firsts, a second and two fourths for a receiver? No thanks, I wouldn't do it now even knowing Jones's ability. Jones better be good for a long time or this will go down as the worst deal since Ditka traded his whole draft for Williams or Herschel Walker to the Vikings.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    I think it really comes down to this ... you just never know with college WRs if they will make it at the pro level.  So, BB does not go all in on a WR in the draft.

    On the other hand, he has had very good results with guys who are already at the pro level who he acquires: Moss, Welker, etc.  There are busts along the way (Galloway), but that's going to happen to any team.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    I don't care what Jones' numbers are.

    You don't make that kind of risky move for a WR. It's not a "critical need" position in the NFL--maybe on a fantasy football team it is, but not on a real football team.

    And Atlanta is 9-5 right now because they're 7-1 against teams with losing records (2-4 against good teams).

    In other words, with Jones or without they'd still be 9-5 this year.

    And they'll be paying for that overreach of a deal for another two years to come.

    Belichick was right IMO.

    Now, if the deal was to trade up and draft Von Miller at #2, that probably would have been worth it. DEs are infinitely more valuable to a team's success than WRs.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Pricey was not about dollars, it was about picks. Atlanta traded- 1st 2011 1st 2012 2nd 2011 4th 2011 4th 2012 Julio Jones (32nd in yards) is good but right now he'd be third on the Pats barely edging out Branch at 665 yards and 4 TDs. Jones may turn out to be great one day wouldn't surprise me. Considering what the Falcons paid they need more. Atlanta was 13-3 and a division winner last year and figured they just needed that one deep threat to get over the hump. Now they are worse at 9-5 and have no first round pick next year and the future is not looking bright. The reason teams, not just the Pats don't trade away a years worth of picks for one player is because it is historically stupid. The Herschel Walker trade catapulted Dallas to a dynasty and the Ricky Williams trade was just as dumb. Both of those players were still good players but they never justified the price paid.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Listen to Shenanigan.  He is wise....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    "I think this sums it all up as far as the mystery of why the Pats have not developed any WR through the draft.  BB just loves stock piling draft picks, but eventually you have to use them like Atlanta did, because the draft is about quality, not quantity.

    Julio Jones - 755 yds and 5 tds  Jonathan Baldwin 200 yds 1 td."

     

    I think the OP poster is making a lot of bogus assumptions here when he says Atlanta took the right approach and BB's is wrong.   You're comparing Jones's stats to Baldwin's but don't take into account what other holes they may have been able to fill if they kept the other picks too.  Football is a team sport.  Atl was 13-3 last yr and already have 5 losses this yr so you could make the argument that they are a worse team right now than they were last yr.  That doesn't really validate your argument.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Even I think two 1st, a 2nd, and two 4ths are to much for a WR and I want BB to use his chips. But I wouldn't mind spending two 1st's or a 1st and a 2nd with a late round pick to move up and take a shot at an impact front 7 player. I don't think that's costly at all. But, for some reason I think BB does
     
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    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]...Chung, Vollmer, Dawling, Vareen, Vollmer, Spikes...have done little to nothing to help this team THIS year. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Chung, when on the field has been one of the few bright spots for this years secondary, Vollmer has been a starter when not nursing his back, as well with spikes and his knee...ok, with Dowling and Vereen we haven't seen anything of value (yet)...but your claim that they have done nothing is outrageous...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    J. Baldwin is also on the chiefs, i think that Jones had more oppertunities to get yardage with Matty Ice, than whoever the chiefs trot out
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    About 2 years ago TexPat posted an article on "WR's as Shiny Hood Ornaments". The Shiny Hood Ornament theory can be summarized as something that makes you look good but is not essential to success. We all need WR's but the essential part of a team is the QB, OL and D. These building blocks are what win championships. The Pats won 3 times with WR's no one else would touch (Givens, Branch et al.). They even made a serious run with Reche Caldwell and nearly made it. 

    I think Atlanta made a mistake in giving up so much for 1 guy. I just don't get their decision and so far JJ has not produced enough, nor has the team improved enough to change my mind. For me, JJ is a "shiny hood ornament".
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]J. Baldwin is also on the chiefs, i think that Jones had more oppertunities to get yardage with Matty Ice, than whoever the chiefs trot out
    Posted by thejoshuatree28[/QUOTE]

    YES, If the Falcons stayed put and took Baldwin at whatever position they had, I am willng to bet playing with Matt Ryan and behind Roddy,and Tony G he would have similar numbers.

    At the same time anybody who has seen the Julio Jones pre game jump catch in the end zone knows that this kid is an amazing athlete and I think if healthy he will be one of the  better receivers in the leaguye at some point.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Would you trade Gronk(2nd) and Hernandez(4th) for a shot at Dez Bryant(1st)  in 2010 ?
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]Pricey was not about dollars, it was about picks. Atlanta traded- 1st 2011 1st 2012 2nd 2011 4th 2011 4th 2012 Julio Jones (32nd in yards) is good but right now he'd be third on the Pats barely edging out Branch at 665 yards and 4 TDs. Jones may turn out to be great one day wouldn't surprise me. .
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    exactly. that deal will eventually cripple the the falcons
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patthepatriot666. Show patthepatriot666's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    why is belichick always accused of being an egomaniac- in my opinion he prbably has less of an ego than any other coach

    the other fake criticism is that he needs to be "challenged"- that he is some kind of tyrant who wont listen to divergent opinion




    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]I do think Bill gets caught up a little to much in the chase of the deal. He likes to get "value" and there's also an ego effect to a deal maker - you want to look good doing it and be considered the one that got he better of the deal. It's a competitive thing that quite honestly I think has left us empty handed on draft day. Having said that, I do think he knows how to evaluate talent as good as anyone. He acquires picks allowing us to go into a draft with fire power that few teams enjoy, but it gets frustrating watching that get squandered on the DEAL rather than just selecting the PLAYER that would help. Where we usually are selecting doesn't help (mid 20's), however some of the recent 2nd round misses have really hurt this team...Butler, Wheatly, Brace, Cunningham...were flat out misses and...Chung, Vollmer, Dawling, Vareen, Vollmer, Spikes...have done little to nothing to help this team THIS year. I still think BB the coach makes BB the GM look good, but I will cut the guy some slack because he has found some hidden gems as well. Really I think the free agent market has hurt us a bit as well lately, but again that can come down to a "value" and "I need to get the better of this deal" approach.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]why is belichick always accused of being an egomaniac- in my opinion he prbably has less of an ego than any other coach the other fake criticism is that he needs to be "challenged"- that he is some kind of tyrant who wont listen to divergent opinion In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick :
    Posted by patthepatriot666[/QUOTE]

    Well I think people think he has an ego based off his time in Cleveland. He went into that city and basically said FU to the city, media, players, and people in the organization. It takes someone with some pretty large nuggets to do that. Have you ever watched or heard him do an interview? There's a hint of an ego there in my opinion (not saying that's a bad thing).

    As far as him being challenged, just watching "A Football Life", he clearly does most of the talking and it looks like there's a bunch of young guys that are afraid to voice their opinion. It appeared that way in the video. You hear people in the media talk about it - weather that is the case or not would be hard to prove unless you were actually in meetings everyday with him.

    There honestly is not a coach I'd rather have. I liked him in Cleveland (his teams were tough, big, and would be in games till the end). He has done miracles here. There is not a harder working coach in the league and his teams get better as the year goes on. But to think he doesn't have an ego, or that a young - inexperienced coach - isn't going to be afraid to speak up in a meeting (and possibly be wrong) when they're trying to build their reputation, may be a stretch.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick : Chung, when on the field has been one of the few bright spots for this years secondary, Vollmer has been a starter when not nursing his back, as well with spikes and his knee...ok, with Dowling and Vereen we haven't seen anything of value (yet)...but your claim that they have done nothing is outrageous...
    Posted by jonnyredshorts[/QUOTE]

    To have my claim be "outragious" the following would actually have to take place...

    When Chung was playing the secondary would of had to of let LESS completions, yardage and first downs to take place....that wasn't the case...it was just as bad, if not worse. Chung is not good in coverage right now - maybe in a couple of years he will be, but he'd have to actually stay healthy for that small/little portion of his game to improve.

    Vareen would have to have ...some yardage and receptions.

    Dowling would have to of played more than a game and a half and Vollmer would have to NOT roll around on the ground in pain after every one of his 5 snaps he receives a game. And then when he got healthy, he would have to learn how to pass block to avoid getting our QB killed.

    And of course Spikes would have to of developed into a Ted Johnson type of consistent run defender/attitude maker. 

    If any of the above had taken place THIS season, then what I said would of been outrageous. None of it has yet.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]Too much negativity and too many know nothng wanna be gm's on this forum for me. I hope you're all   experts at  YOUR jobs.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]

    I am, thank you for noticing...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]I don't care what Jones' numbers are. You don't make that kind of risky move for a WR. It's not a "critical need" position in the NFL--maybe on a fantasy football team it is, but not on a real football team. And Atlanta is 9-5 right now because they're 7-1 against teams with losing records (2-4 against good teams). In other words, with Jones or without they'd still be 9-5 this year. And they'll be paying for that overreach of a deal for another two years to come. Belichick was right IMO. Now, if the deal was to trade up and draft Von Miller at #2, that probably would have been worth it. DEs are infinitely more valuable to a team's success than WRs.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    Atlanta did take risks, and they got a very good productive NFL rookie that will be a starter for years to come.  Trading down also involves risks, the "value approach has led to quite a few busts, Butler and Wheatley are two 2nd rd value picks that come to mind.

    All I'm saying, is sometimes teams have to roll the dice and trade up to get a productive player.   Right now Brady is carrying a team with the worst Pass defense in the league and Deion Branch and T. Underwood as his two wideouts.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfiton. Show kjfiton's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Jones is good and can play at this level but Atlanta gave up too much for him. Got to agree with belichick on this one.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    Calling Bill for drafting advice clearly isn't you best option.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick

    In Response to Re: Atlanta was Glad they didn't listen to Belichick:
    [QUOTE]Jones is good and can play at this level but Atlanta gave up too much for him. Got to agree with belichick on this one.
    Posted by kjfiton[/QUOTE]

    Dez Bryant anyone?  The Pats traded down from#24 and Dallas picked him up.  So far this season, Bryant 8 tds and 756 yds with Romo.  You don't think Brady would be loving this guy? 

     

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