Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    Sweed is gone. Clearly, their homerun draft in the last 5 is 2007. Ours is 2010. NE and Pitt's 2009 drafts look equal to me. If Ziggy Hood was so fantastic, Casey Hampton is a cost cutting cost move.  Nice potential long term move for Hampton, but not yet. What is the point here?  Pitt is also good, but BB isn't on Colbert's level?  lol Why did Pitt miss the playoffs 2 years ago? I'll tell you why: Polamalu got hurt and Larry Foote was a big loss for them with depth and experience down the middle in 2009.   BB goes 11-5 while losing Brady, so really, who is the better architect of building a team?  Colbert in Pitt or BB? NE loses Harrison, Brushci, Samuel, Seymour and Vrabel all within a 2 years span, and they still manage to win 10+ games in 2008!  11 games in 2009 with a one dimensional offense and NO SEYMOUR AND VRABLE On the edge. Pitt MISSES THE PLAYOFFS AT 8-8 because ONE defensive player, arguably a great one goes down (Polamalu). Case CLOSED. Ozzie Newsome? Good GM. What's he won?  Mickey Loomis? Good GM. Just won a SB. Had years of crap to get draft pick position to finally build it. Jerry Reese? NY Giants?  Good GM. Had a great 2007 draft. Was crucial to a SB. Great job. Andy Reid/Roseman, Philly.  GREAT job, but what have they won?  Hmm. I've asked him to name his top 5 GMs and he doesn't put BB in the top 5. That's utterly ridicuous when you consider how well BB uses the draft and FA in conjunction with one another, generally speaking. I don't see him being objective WHATSOEVER.  He's overly critical of BB while not including any contexts (other GMs's yields or successes) by comparison. For example, compare Polian's last 3 drafts to NE's over the same time period. Dude, I lived in Chicago for 5 years, had customers in Wisconsin. I am telling you, no one believed in Ted Thompson. He was VERY unpopular. He's the guy that dealt Favre and took about 5 years to put a defense together.    He was under fire when they went 6-10 in 2008 and even when they got plastered by Arizona in the one and done, giving up 51 points!! 51! Now, the guy is considered a great GM.  Why is that? PL, you claim I am doing the spin job here, while all I am asking for is Babe to explain why BB is so mediocre when it's clear, compared to other GM's, it's simply not the case. NE isn't picking top or middle of the draft every year like teams do who miss the playoffs or don't win 10 games. This is why I ask to compare BB and Polian. Look at the drafts from 2008-2010 and compare BB and Polian. Even Underpants sees BB winning here at this point. I hope.   Babe is a troll. I just gave you contexts as to why Babe's argument is so weak and why his premise is flawed. OF COURSE no one is perfect and BB';s 2006 draft was bad. Of course.  But, to say he's "mediocre" isn't to say he's objective. That's flat out false until proven by Babe. And it won't be.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I wasn't saying BB is a mediocre GM and don't know if Babe was..i would have to look specifically...

    Generally speaking I think he stacks up quite favorably against other GM's...I'm not arguing that point. I'm simply stating that he's had some mediocre drafts since 2006, 2010 being the exception, and not counting 2011.

    What I find curious is if you line up when Floyd Reese came onboard to when our drafts started to improve. Reese came onboard in January 2009. He worked diligently with BB on the 2010 draft, and we saw the result. Probably same with 2011's draft. Are the Pats 2010 and 2011 drafts a byproduct of Reese's advice/guidance and therefore our success?

    Again, not calling BB a mediocre GM. I think more than anything he is spread way too thin. He does a better job than any other GM assembling talent..via the draft, UDFA and FA. No questions. The main point to make is the 06'-09' drafts were not completely lucrative, and somewhat out of character for a top tier talent evaluator. Was it the weakness of the draft? or a bad evaluation of talent?

    You already stated Pitt had a strong draft in 07', so I don't think you can consider it a weak draft class when Pitt picked up 2 excellent LB's.


     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : I don't even praise his "genius" in every thread.  Ridiculous. You either prop up Brady or bash BB. How about each are incredible and the best EVER?? You're trying to take away how incredible his plan was heading into the lockout, his 2010 draft, what could very well be a good 2011 draft and two 1st rd picks next year in Round 1, WHILE Vegas seeing NE as 5-1 to win the SB.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I will be completely willing to heap praise on BB the GM when the results dictate that is warranted.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

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    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : "Last minute"??? Or is BB so wise HE KNEW these players would be cap hits out of the lockout and had it planned the whole time???!!!!! Hmmm, Babe??!!!! Isn't this EXACTLY what I said when I said the cap would be the same or LOWER than 2009 and why NE frontloaded Wilfork's and Brady's deals? BB preys on poorly managed teams.  FACT Care to answer that one, hotshot? Don't you get that every single aspect of what being a GM is, is really inclusive (Market value, selling assets, allocation of dollars to each positoin, where you select a player, trading back to still get a player and save $$). You ignore this because you knew it hurts your premise. We have dopes complaining about Seymour who now makes 14 million as a loser in Oakland, and Clay Matthews in GB as a one dimensional pass rusher who doesn't cover, and BB scores Gronkowski, Haynesworth, Ellis, Carter and Brian Waters for like 4 million less than what Seymour makes? Mediocre GM? Last minute? Is it? lol We have Chung because he dealt Vrabel andn tagged Cassel, likely as a sweetheart deal for both Pioli and BB. Funny how in the new BB NFL Network piece that will air next week, one portion has BB discussing Wilfork's contract extension in 2009, BEFORE it became a dramatic media piece in the summmer of 2010. POint? He's always thinking. One, 2, 3, 4, steps ahead. What's humorous is you purposely ignore contexts hoping no one will call you out and expose you. Considering yourself blasted on this topic befire you evevn started your own pathetic thread about a "good laugh". I'll be laughing at rubes or ignorant people when NE wins another SB.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    The rebuilding of the defense is far from complete. I think BB would agree with this....However i think an importnat point needs to be made here. That point is rebuilding is never done. It's not a point in time we can point to to say "the Pats D will be completely rebuilt by 2011 or whatever" because i think BB sees a winning formula by infusing younger and older talent..we've seen this since 2000/01, and his approach will be to do this going forward.

    However, if for example he hit on 50% more prospects in the draft than he did, would that change is strategy? if Brace turned out to be an excellent 3-4 DE, or Butler a great corner, or McKenzie a good 3-4 ILB, or Crable a good 3-4 OLB, would we have seen this change in defensive philospophy and ths onslaught of defensive FA's? Somethign to consider.

    What he did this year with a shortened offseason, his draft selections and scooping up FA's is pure genius however in terms of patching it all together and transforming to a different system in short order. He made some wholesale changes, brought in solid vets who he'll get the most out of, and also has a good young group to work with.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    Listen, why cant you guys end this debate by saying in the last 2 years Bill has done a pretty decent job at drafting....from 06-09, not so much,,,regardless of the reason.

    That being said...Most of the players of the SB runs besides Vrabel and Brady were already here from Parcells tenor and had some familirality with Billichecks system when he was in N.E.

    So w/out guys like Ty Law, Milloy, Willie, Teddy, etc, where would we be?

    Billicheck is def. a better coach than G.M. - if he has experienced , smart, tough players on his team he can do alot.  When having to revamp his defense after losing quality vetarans , most G.M.'s would struggle replacing guy like that, but that being said, he is just now realizing how hard it is and is trying a system that is easier to evaluate players comning in and easier to find players and after years of passing on 4-3 ends, has finally stop trying to find the next Willie and went w/ some 4-3 personell to mix it up and get a pass rush which is why we've not gone anywhere in the playoffs lately, than and our line, which has been upgraded.  STevie Wonder can see this....but im just glad he is doing something, even if it is a couple years late....Win one NOW and Im happy
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

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    Sure. I already stated that many fans aren't taking into account that NE's staff is RAIDED every year. If Pitt lost LeBeau, Colbert (PItt GM) doesn't look so great anymore as they'd take a hit on defense. Same concept. Pioli leaves on the heels of BB's scouting crew raided, on the heels of Weise and Crennel leaving, and it hurt. No doubt. Look at the LAUNDRY list of Pats employees who worked here, player, scout or coach, who got RAISES simply be being here. Look at why NE was just the leader in cuts who were claimed and it wasn't close!!!   17 claimed players?? That's insane.  BB is considered an elite evaluator by 99% of the NFL! And it adds up.   Yes. I agree. That's why having Reese work the contracts and Caserio help out and be groomed is a good thing.  The infrastructure is more stable.  Absolutely. This is what I mean about contexts!  If BB had no cap, no one left due to the cap, NE would never lose. BB has had far more to deal with in terms of keeping the ship tidy so to speak than any other organiztion. It's a fact. The only comparison is Caldwell taking over for Dungy or Tomlin for Cowher. I still think Tomlin is incredibly overrated. That team is all LeBeau. Also, just because Pitt hit on two players on one position in a draft doesn't mean the draft class was good or great/deep. It's a fact BB wasn't enamored with it. And 2008 was clearly the weakest of the decade if not the last two decades. Another context needs to be included for that draft. NO ONE had a great 2008 draft. In fact, most teams didn't even have a solid one.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Completely agree Russ. And I think it is an important point to poitn out that BB is spread way too thin with his current duties. It's amazing how he manages the whole thing with excellence. Reese helped him conisderably in the draft I think. The proof is 10' and 11'. 10' awesome draft, 11' looks close, and considerably better than 06'-09'.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : No you won't. You registered here in 2008 and kept quiet as a fan before that because they were a dynasty.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing



    No. I wasn't active here from the start. I only posted occasionally. I was active elsewhere. My concerns with the way the team was being managed probably started around the spygate time. It was then I realized much of the past success was because the core group of players that were inherited and not added by BB.

     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : He's the greatest coach ever, so it would be really tough for him to be a better GM than coach. I can name 4 or 5 GREAT HOF GMs right now, so I agree he's not a better GM than he is a coach. But, clearly he is above this spin that Babe gives it. He's a very good GM (top 5) and a great coach.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Well, if he's a top 5 GM why have the results consistently diminished?
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : They haven't: 1. Most wins since 2007. 2. Two division titles while selling off assets to avoid getting old. 3. 14-2 2010 season and coach of the year after starting the draft picks all over the field, picks he SELECTED. How are these "diminshed" results?   Barring a floating duck and the luckiest catch of all time by a WR, you don't have a leg to stand on, and don't anyway.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Since 2004;

    2005: 2 and out.

    2006: largest blown halftime lead in AFC championship history.

    2007: perfect season blown.

    2008 no show in palyoffs.

    2009 one and out.

    2010 one and out.


    If you don't call that diminishing results, what do you call it; getting better?

    You're all spin wonderboy.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    Used to be Pat's fans mocked the Colts for being satisfied with lots of regular season wins but fails in the playoffs. Now Pat's fans crow about about exactly what they mocked the Colts for. Times have changed.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    I think the whole sequence from 05' to now has been one kick in the n uts after the other with each one stinging more and more.  I believe after watching the horrendus pickups of Monty and Chad, and after the 06' debacle when we had no Wr's or a formidle defense to hold a league, this is when the defensive philosophy should have changed.  They did change offensivelu with the greatest show on grass where we tried to outscore everyone and it worked...but the defense in 07' was miscast as great when really they werent tested  much...they got a lot of 3 and outs and the offense kept the ball, but when season winded down they were struggling to contain the likes of A.J. Feely and Kyle Boller, so This is the mistake that was made.  He shouldve started to look at 4-3 players after seeing Manning go crazy in the 2nd half of 06' and noone being able to sniff his a ss.  Or else change to an attacking 3-4 like S.D and Pitt who have had success getting to Manning..

     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : FIXED You should be glad you aren't fan of 90% of other NFL fanbases, because it's clear you have been dead of a suicide a lot sooner than 4 years ago.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I understand your obsession to ignore the defensive collapse and focus an some poor officiating during the collapse. It fits much better with your delusion when you can spin blame at somebody else's doorstep other than Hoodie.

    The fact remains if his D did not give up the equivalent of 64 ppg in the second half, we would have gone to the SB.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    I think the whole sequence from 05' to now has been one kick in the n uts after the other with each one stinging more and more.  I believe after watching the horrendus pickups of Monty and Chad, and after the 06' debacle when we had no Wr's or a formidle defense to hold a league, this is when the defensive philosophy should have changed.  They did change offensivelu with the greatest show on grass where we tried to outscore everyone and it worked...but the defense in 07' was miscast as great when really they werent tested  much...they got a lot of 3 and outs and the offense kept the ball, but when season winded down they were struggling to contain the likes of A.J. Feely and Kyle Boller, so This is the mistake that was made.  He shouldve started to look at 4-3 players after seeing Manning go crazy in the 2nd half of 06' and noone being able to sniff his a ss.  Or else change to an attacking 3-4 like S.D and Pitt who have had success getting to Manning..
    Posted by JayShizzle45



    I agree. I have said if the system is so dependant on certain kinds of players and those kinds are scarce, you just have to change the system.

    What could work with the key guys BB inherited when he took over the team was just not going to work as well with what he brought in after that.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : This proves you are a troll. BB's adds gave them the 2003 and 2004 dynasty run!
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    You are absolutely obcessed with this troll stuff.

    BB had some good adds to the good core he inherited. The biggest factor was getting away from Bledsoe and lucking into Brady. That turned the team form pretty good to great.
     
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    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : What is 64PPG? What now?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing



    Points per game. If you allow 32 points to be scored in a half it is comparable to allowing 64 points in a game. That's about as bad as a D can get.
     
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