Bad Call on Safety?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Bad Call on Safety?

    Was the safety on Brady's intentional grounding a bad call? I think so.

    When do you ever see an intentional grounding called on a ball thrown deep down the middle of the field? I know there were no Patriots receivers anywhere near that ball, but how does the ref know that a Patriots receiver didn't just break off his route?

    I'll be honest, I've never seen a play like that happen where a QB is pressured in the end zone and throws a deep ball to nobody, but I've seen it happen on the 30- or 40-yard lines. Never has that been called outside of the end zone, so why would they call it in the end zone?

    I don't blame Brady for making that decision. He threw it like that because he probably didn't think that was grounding, and I don't think it was.

    It's very unfortunate we got that incorrect call, and 2 points turned out to be a big difference in the game.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from yakv. Show yakv's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    The Ball can be called safety by the rules although at the end of the play , tuck came after brady , 
    rarely do you ever see this called grounding , 
    for me it doesn't matter if you throw to the sideline or deep ball no one will catch .
    the problem is the inconsistent referee calls all over the year .

    superbowl is the worst place to call this calls ,
    it's just kills momentum and gives the other team the ball ,
    the dumb referee should have mad a simple judgments 
    but the hell you know all are afraid form goodell .
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    It was an abysmal call that set the Pats on the back foot straight away. You see those plays every week and it isn't called grounding - why call it in the Superbowl. Brady threw it 50 yards down field FFS

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    Yakv, that's a great point about the magnitude of the game. Referees have been keeping the flags away all playoffs for questionable calls, so why call it during the biggest playoff game of all?

    I think it does matter though where you throw the ball for intentional grounding. If you just chuck it out of bounds, it's clearly intentional because you're obviously not throwing to a receiver. If you throw it into the middle of the field, it may be that your receiver ran the wrong route. In fact, I've seen plenty of these plays where the QB and the WR are on the wrong page and the QB tosses a deep pass to grass without being penalized.

    I just don't like the inconsistency, and the decision to make a controversial call during the Super Bowl. I commend the refs for not calling some close pass intereference calls during the game, but this one should not have been called either.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

     I've seen throws where the nearest reciver was that far away and yet  ref called defencive pass interferance. So yes it was a bad call.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4THANDOOPS. Show 4THANDOOPS's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    RUB SOME DIRT ON IT!!!  YOU LOST!!!     Laughing
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from laurienyc13. Show laurienyc13's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    Honestly I thought it was a sign of things to come! I did not agree with the call! Still don't. I also saw the Giants have 12 men on the field twice but no call and if you look at Wilfork being held pretty much the entire game you see why Eli had so much time. I am not one to believe in conspiracy but what was the point spread? Also how many times did the Giants use an injury timeouts? Just to slow Brady down and each time the players game back after the mandatory one sit out. That was there strategy so Brady couldn't get into his hurry up offense that he is so good with. He did it for the 96 yard touch down run. They couldn't let that happen again. They should have called them for that!!!! I really hate the Giants. The comments made about Brady's wife was sick, she could buy and sell that idiot. She's worth almost a billion! LOSER!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    It was the right call. Brady was IN the pocket, and heaved it downfield not close to ANY receiver. That is a textbook safety.

    Are we really going to play this game? When did anyone ever see the 'tuck' rule called before it extended the Pats season?

    I don't see how Tuck 'coming after him' somehow justifies it to some people. So, you're allowed to intentionally ground if you're under pressure? Umm, no, the rule exists so QBs CAN'T just throw it away instead of taking a sack.

    Pats lost. Blame it on your choice of:

    -The safety
    -Innability to recover a fumber
    -Horrible play calling and total lack of balance
    -No big plays
    -The 'missed connection' between Welker and Brady
    -The Ds inability to make a stop at the end

    But it doesn't change anything. Even if everyone in NE agreed it was abad call, would anyone feel any better about the loss? Think fans in Oakland feel better because they all agree the tuck call was awful? Doubtful.

    Just let it go.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffory. Show jeffory's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    The tuck rule was called twice earlier that season. That safety is never called. Many times a ball is thrown wildly over someones head or a wrong route is run and the ball goes the other way. Another game changing call by the ref.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimijazz. Show jimijazz's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    It was the right call. Brady was IN the pocket, and heaved it downfield not close to ANY receiver. That is a textbook safety. Are we really going to play this game? When did anyone ever see the 'tuck' rule called before it extended the Pats season? I don't see how Tuck 'coming after him' somehow justifies it to some people. So, you're allowed to intentionally ground if you're under pressure? Umm, no, the rule exists so QBs CAN'T just throw it away instead of taking a sack. Pats lost. Blame it on your choice of: -The safety -Innability to recover a fumber -Horrible play calling and total lack of balance -No big plays -The 'missed connection' between Welker and Brady -The Ds inability to make a stop at the end But it doesn't change anything. Even if everyone in NE agreed it was abad call, would anyone feel any better about the loss? Think fans in Oakland feel better because they all agree the tuck call was awful? Doubtful. Just let it go.
    Posted by ma6dragon9


    Well Put.

    And I would add: forgive TB for not being perfect.  Ditto for Welker, Hernandez, Branch, and Gisele.    

    Also, unless someone can point to one more thing Gronk could have done before the end of the SB, there is nothing to forgive there.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    The tuck rule was called twice earlier that season. That safety is never called. Many times a ball is thrown wildly over someones head or a wrong route is run and the ball goes the other way. Another game changing call by the ref.
    Posted by jeffory

    • Brady was under pressure, about to be sacked if he didn't get rid of the ball.
    • He was in the pocket.
    • He threw the ball where no one was.
    • He was standing in the endzone.
    Put those four together and you get a safety.  You don't see it much because it doesn't happen much.  But the call was a good one.  It is what it is. 


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobCr. Show BobCr's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety? : Brady was under pressure, about to be sacked if he didn't get rid of the ball. He was in the pocket. He threw the ball where no one was. He was standing in the endzone. Put those four together and you get a safety.  You don't see it much because it doesn't happen much.  But the call was a good one.  It is what it is. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    Not quite true.  The other thing that needs to happen is that the quarterback must also be under pressure.  It becomes intentional grounding and a safety because he's actually throwing the ball away to avoid a safety.  Tuck came in and knocked Brady down as he was releasing the ball.  

    I've looked at that play multiple times now.  There were at least two receivers with decent separation from the defenders.  I don't know what the heck he was waiting for.  I love Tom Brady.  He will never have to buy another drink the rest of his life.  However, that was not his best game.  He gets paid millions of dollars every year to know that an intentional grounding penalty in that situation will result in a safety.  It put us 2 points in the hole and changed the entire complexion of the game.  Potentially our defense could have held the Giants to only 3 points on their last drive, and that would have only tied the game.  

    In 2007, the Giants just got lucky.  They were not the best team that day.  This year, however, they were.  They beat us because they played a better game.  I can live with that. I would still rather have the Patriots get to the Super Bowl and lose than not get there at all. It's too bad Giant fans are such trolls.  The reason why gas stations in New Jersey are all full service is because Giant fans are so stupid pumping gas is about the only job they can handle.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    Of course it was, he was trying to get the ball to a WR. Either they blew their route or the ball sailed a bit on him. 

    Why the refs threw that flag then was beyond me. Ticky-tcky doesn't describe it. 

    It was a nine point swing, because of course the defense couldn't even hold the Giants to a FG then. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety? : Not quite true.  The other thing that needs to happen is that the quarterback must also be under pressure.  It becomes intentional grounding and a safety because he's actually throwing the ball away to avoid a safety.

    Bob, I think that was my first bullet . . .  


    He gets paid millions of dollars every year to know that an intentional grounding penalty in that situation will result in a safety.  It put us 2 points in the hole and changed the entire complexion of the game.
    Posted by BobCr


    It was a bad play.  His only excuse is if there was literally nothing else for him to do but take the sack, in which case heaving the ball is a better decision because the refs could be caught sleeping and you might get lucky.  I haven't seen the play again since the original game, so I'm not sure who else was open (or at least in position to be close to a pass thrown into the ground) . . . and I'm not sure if there was a miscommunication and Brady thought someone was going to run a post route instead of a crossing route or something like that.  There are possibilities that might absolve Brady of some of the blame, but on the surface at least, it just looks like a bad play.  If nothing else, he made his decision too slowly.  You don't have 4 or 5 seconds to hold the ball with that team and that field position. 


     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    If nothing else, he made his decision too slowly.  You don't have 4 or 5 seconds to hold the ball with that team and that field position. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    But you don't throw to bracketed short routes.

    The Giants game plan was simple ... we've seen it before. Gronk has helped over come it. 

    Teams basically play their safeties 10-13 yards off the LOS and dare NE to go deep. 


    Rewatch the play, there were two players within five yards of the ball, Brady was trying to go up top and take advantage of that, but his WRs are old, slow, or midgets. 

    It was completely against the spirit of the rule because it was nakedly obvious the intent was to complete a pass and not avoid a sack. If he were trying to avoid a sack he would simply throw it in the dirt or to the sidelines, which would have been much safer, easier throws to just avoid the sack. 

    Intending to complete a pass ... categorically ... is not the same as intentionally grounding a ball. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    It was a safety. Also he had plenty of time do other things. That ball was clearly thrown to avoid any type of interception. He could have easily thrown it down at a guys feet running a route or out of bounds. Bone headed play. These excuses are embarrassing. Both teams had plays to win the game. Patriots didn't make theirs. End of discussion.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    Tuck made it a safety, it wouldn't have been intentional grounding had Brady thrown it away earlier. When Tuck came tumbling towards Brady, Brady threw the ball away. 

    Int. grounding - When the QB throws the ball away to avoid a sack. 


    As you know, all penalties that occur in your endzone are safeties. Hence forth, Tom made a bad call in making that throw. The bad thing is, he had all the time in the world, he went through every read...TWICE! When he saw that no one was open he had the choice to either tuck and run or just throw it away. He held on to it, IN HIS OWN ENDZONE OF ALL PLACES!!!, and that resulted in points. 

    Brady made terrible plays in these playoffs. You guys all ragged on the defense for no showing up all season, but whenever we get in close games it's always the offense that lets us down. The Jets game last year (14 points, the last TD was in garbage time), terrible game against the Ravens this year, the SB. 

    I'm telling you, we need to ditch the high powered offense because we can't rely on it, build a high powered defense instead. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fraudlover. Show fraudlover's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    Brady was under pressure-no brainer call !
    Ironically, the "holding call" on the Giants that STOPPED a drive was a bad call(per Wilfork's own admission..on tv last night !!) & DB Moore's blatant mugging of Cruz (no call !) stopped YET another drive ....so let's not whine,especially when they got it right as a safety !!!!
    Again, we see what we want to see and easily accept other teams' mistakes for the win,but not our own team's mistakes!
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety? : But you don't throw to bracketed short routes. The Giants game plan was simple ... we've seen it before. Gronk has helped over come it.  Teams basically play their safeties 10-13 yards off the LOS and dare NE to go deep.  Rewatch the play, there were two players within five yards of the ball, Brady was trying to go up top and take advantage of that, but his WRs are old, slow, or midgets.  It was completely against the spirit of the rule because it was nakedly obvious the intent was to complete a pass and not avoid a sack. If he were trying to avoid a sack he would simply throw it in the dirt or to the sidelines, which would have been much safer, easier throws to just avoid the sack.  Intending to complete a pass ... categorically ... is not the same as intentionally grounding a ball. 
    Posted by zbellino

    Yeah, but they write the rules to take judgment of intent out of them.  The rule for intentional grounding reads:

    It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that lands in the direction and vicinity of an originally eligible receiver.

    The refs are just supposed to judge two things: was the passer about to lose yardage because of pressure from the defense and did the ball land in the direction and vicinity of a receiver.  If the answer to the first is yes and to the second no it's intentional grounding regardless of what the passer's intent was. I guess you could argue whether the pass was really in the direction and vicinity of Branch, but he seemed to be running a crossing route and the pass went nowhere near where he was headed.  At least that's how I remember it when they showed the replay the day of the game.  I haven't seen it since, so maybe I am wrong.  But on the replay as I remember it, none of the receivers seemed headed toward where the ball went.   I've seen refs call intentional grounding on plays like this before, where the QB just heaves the ball down the middle of the field to avoid a sack.  Not sure I've ever seen it when the QB was also in the endzone (making it a safety), but I've definitely seen intentional grounding called on a ball thrown deep like that. 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from yakv. Show yakv's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    What was amazing on that play was the way Mankins got pushed like a ragdoll by Tuck. Looking like a rookie.
    Posted by bobbysu


    Mankins somehow always flatters against the giants it's the mtach up
    or the players .

    brady was hurried 17 times this game more than any other game this 
    season this one goes on the OL - mankins , SOlder/Volmer combo
    got pressured and beat too many times.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

     Tom Brady, talking on the sideline after his intentional grounding call:“I looked at Gronk, I looked to Wes, he dropped, then I felt him, I had no place to throw it away. I threw it over his head. I didn’t want to throw an interception
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Bad Call on Safety?

    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety?:
    In Response to Re: Bad Call on Safety? : Mankins somehow always flatters against the giants it's the mtach up or the players . brady was hurried 17 times this game more than any other game this  season this one goes on the OL - mankins , SOlder/Volmer combo got pressured and beat too many times.
    Posted by yakv


    Actually, I thought the OL gave Brady plenty of time to make throws. I didn't really see him pressured consistently, but Brady falls for phantom Pass-rushes nowadays anyway. 

     
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