Baltimore's New Defense.

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

    I don't understand why this always becomes a religious argument. But since some of us seem enamored with statistics, here are some for the Patriots run offense to chew on:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

    These are the facts, the only years when this team rushed more than 500 times were 2004, 2008 and 2012. 2008 was Matt Cassell's year and Bill was not about to bet the team's fortunes on just his arm. 2004 and 2012 are almost identical in terms of rushing statistics. Maybe we will be lucky enough to get the same results!!!

    No connotative commentary, just wanted to share these stats. I feel good about our chances this year because we have a great passing offense, a pretty decent rushing offense, a strong rushing defense, and a middling but improving pass defense. We are still a little vulnerable to long passes but that has also improved through the year. I think we are about as well-rounded a team as there is in the league, except we have an HOF QB as well.

     

     




    One comment on your theory here. We ran 156 more plays in 2012 than we did in 2004 yet ran about the same number of times. That's about 7% less run balance than 2004. (Or, a greater balance difference between 2004/2012 than this year's team vs last years.)

     




    I made no conclusions on balance or lack thereof at all, and frankly don't much care about the run-pass balance one way or the other. I was sharing data purely on the run offense over the years. And, further, I did not share a theory. Purely an observation that the data looked pretty similar for the run offense. And, yes, I also added the hope that the end result would be the same as well. Just trying to be precise.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Going from 17th in the league in rushing attempts to 2nd is not opinion.  

    That we had 6 receivers on the roster last year and now have 3 is not an opinion.  

    Truechamp posts stats and facts via Mike Reis and they respond with "percentages" and "averages."  

    How about you guys just admit that a well rounded, balanced offense that can both run and pass under duress is better than a finesse offense that couldn't do either?  

    Don't bother, this year's post season results will be all the proof we need when held up against the 3 rings we did win with the same exact methods in the not so distant past. 


    As far as I know there's no trophy for having the most rushing attempts. You're always arguing that all that matters is points. Well this year's offense was ahead of last year's by a whopping two TDs and one FG. And those additional 17 points over 16 games were scored with the help of 7 extra drives during the season and an average of two minutes or so more possession time per game. 

    The best way to judge an offense is by points scored. I don't carto where they rank in rushing attempts or passing attempts or what the percentage of shotgun snaps is. Points are what counts and when you compare points scored on offense from last year and this you don't see a heck of a lot of difference. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

    I don't understand why this always becomes a religious argument. But since some of us seem enamored with statistics, here are some for the Patriots run offense to chew on:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

    These are the facts, the only years when this team rushed more than 500 times were 2004, 2008 and 2012. 2008 was Matt Cassell's year and Bill was not about to bet the team's fortunes on just his arm. 2004 and 2012 are almost identical in terms of rushing statistics. Maybe we will be lucky enough to get the same results!!!

    No connotative commentary, just wanted to share these stats. I feel good about our chances this year because we have a great passing offense, a pretty decent rushing offense, a strong rushing defense, and a middling but improving pass defense. We are still a little vulnerable to long passes but that has also improved through the year. I think we are about as well-rounded a team as there is in the league, except we have an HOF QB as well.

     

     



    Good post


    So are they giving away the Lombardi based on rushing stats now?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    The 9 times each is a bogus number. Kneeldowns and 57 second desperation drives when you need a TD are moot to the point. They each had 8 legit drives.

    Actually the defense played significantly worse than the offense compared to their regular season numbers per drive (despite the O missing the great Gronk's greatness).

    The D gave up 1.9 points per drive on the season vs 2.62 in the SB. Or 37% more points given up per drive than on the season.

    The offense scored 2.12 per drive in the SB vs 2.79 on the season. That's 24% less points per drive than on the season.

    At 8 drives per team using the regular season averages we should have scored ~22 points and given up ~15. Therefore the O scored 5 points less than they should have and the D allowed 7 points more than they should have.

    The D's inability to get even a single turnover probably led to their giving up more points per drive and the lack of Gronk and effective running from the backs probably led to the O's less point production per drive.



    Numbers per drive is complete horsesh-t!  

    Let's just compare their points scored, points against, and who turned it over... you know, the only stats that matter according to Belichick.  

    These convoluted stats per average are your way of squirming out of having to address the offensive ineptitude.  Its circular logic that leads you back to your own flawed conclusions.

    Points scored, points against and turnovers are the only stats that matter, in that order.  

    The Patriots offense scored 17 points but gave back two on a safety as well as turning the ball over = 15 points.   They turned it over again in cruchtime to start the 4th quarter.  15 points, that's nothing close to their regular season average if that's whats important to you, less than half if my math is correct.

    Yes, the defense played average, in fact right at their season average, but received no help from their offense who stunk the joint up.  If they had received any help from the O by way of controlling the clock, maybe they wouldn't have been spent on that last drive.

    You can look at stats using your secret decoder ring, focus on alternate stats that give you whatever data you need to support your BS premise, the simple fact is they play this game for POINTS.  Not points per drive, not PBRs, DBRs, or some other ridiculous stat that nerds sit around and calculate that add up to a hill of beans.  

    Offense has to score points, defense has to stop them and whoever turns it over reduces their chances of winning drastically.  NE's offense turned it over twice and scored 15 points = loss.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

    I don't understand why this always becomes a religious argument. But since some of us seem enamored with statistics, here are some for the Patriots run offense to chew on:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

    These are the facts, the only years when this team rushed more than 500 times were 2004, 2008 and 2012. 2008 was Matt Cassell's year and Bill was not about to bet the team's fortunes on just his arm. 2004 and 2012 are almost identical in terms of rushing statistics. Maybe we will be lucky enough to get the same results!!!

    No connotative commentary, just wanted to share these stats. I feel good about our chances this year because we have a great passing offense, a pretty decent rushing offense, a strong rushing defense, and a middling but improving pass defense. We are still a little vulnerable to long passes but that has also improved through the year. I think we are about as well-rounded a team as there is in the league, except we have an HOF QB as well.

     

     



    Good post


    So are they giving away the Lombardi based on rushing stats now?

     




    I understood you and others to say that you wanted more statistics and less opinion? I presented rushing stats without an opinion. But never mind.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

    I don't understand why this always becomes a religious argument. But since some of us seem enamored with statistics, here are some for the Patriots run offense to chew on:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

    These are the facts, the only years when this team rushed more than 500 times were 2004, 2008 and 2012. 2008 was Matt Cassell's year and Bill was not about to bet the team's fortunes on just his arm. 2004 and 2012 are almost identical in terms of rushing statistics. Maybe we will be lucky enough to get the same results!!!

    No connotative commentary, just wanted to share these stats. I feel good about our chances this year because we have a great passing offense, a pretty decent rushing offense, a strong rushing defense, and a middling but improving pass defense. We are still a little vulnerable to long passes but that has also improved through the year. I think we are about as well-rounded a team as there is in the league, except we have an HOF QB as well.

     

     



    Good post


    So are they giving away the Lombardi based on rushing stats now?

     



    This just shows that those who think we're not rushing more, that it doesn't help or didn't matter in championship years have their head up their azz.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    Total points scored/allowed is all that matters for evaluating the team as a whole.

    When evaluating the performance of a particular unit in a game, I don't know how you can do that without taking into account the number of possessions they had.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to wozzy's comment:


    Numbers per drive is complete horsesh-t!  



    It's really not.  If it wasn't what would be the point of trying to beat great offenses by holding the ball.  It's to give them less opportunities to score because most people realize that how many times you score is related to how many opportunities you get.  Think about it.  If your opponent scored a TD every time they had the ball it wouldn't matter how long you held it.  It is the fact that they don't and you think you can stop them a few times that makes holding the ball valuable.  It isn't the whole story, but to pretend it is irrelevant completely flies in the face of the logic behind why you think we should run the ball.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    So...how did this thread about Baltimore's defense turn into the running game thing again?  Hasn't this been bantered about in other threads? 

    The big difference from the beginning of the season to now is the improvement of the OL.  These guys are doing a terrific job.  You can't pass or run without these guys and they are at the top of their game right now.  The problem will not be about the offense this year even with Gronk out.

    The question is still about the defense and hope that the special teams snafu last game was just a fluke.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    The 9 times each is a bogus number. Kneeldowns and 57 second desperation drives when you need a TD are moot to the point. They each had 8 legit drives.

    Actually the defense played significantly worse than the offense compared to their regular season numbers per drive (despite the O missing the great Gronk's greatness).

    The D gave up 1.9 points per drive on the season vs 2.62 in the SB. Or 37% more points given up per drive than on the season.

    The offense scored 2.12 per drive in the SB vs 2.79 on the season. That's 24% less points per drive than on the season.

    At 8 drives per team using the regular season averages we should have scored ~22 points and given up ~15. Therefore the O scored 5 points less than they should have and the D allowed 7 points more than they should have.

    The D's inability to get even a single turnover probably led to their giving up more points per drive and the lack of Gronk and effective running from the backs probably led to the O's less point production per drive.



    Numbers per drive is complete horsesh-t!  

    Let's just compare their points scored, points against, and who turned it over... you know, the only stats that matter according to Belichick.  

    These convoluted stats per average are your way of squirming out of having to address the offensive ineptitude.  Its circular logic that leads you back to your own flawed conclusions.

    Points scored, points against and turnovers are the only stats that matter, in that order.  

    The Patriots offense scored 17 points but gave back two on a safety as well as turning the ball over = 15 points.   They turned it over again in cruchtime to start the 4th quarter.  15 points, that's nothing close to their regular season average if that's whats important to you, less than half if my math is correct.

    Yes, the defense played average, in fact right at their season average, but received no help from their offense who stunk the joint up.  If they had received any help from the O by way of controlling the clock, maybe they wouldn't have been spent on that last drive.

    You can look at stats using your secret decoder ring, focus on alternate stats that give you whatever data you need to support your BS premise, the simple fact is they play this game for POINTS.  Not points per drive, not PBRs, DBRs, or some other ridiculous stat that nerds sit around and calculate that add up to a hill of beans.  Offense has to score points, defense has to stop them and whoever turns it over reduces their chances of winning drastically.

     

     




    The D allowed more points and the D got no turn-overs.  There's your problem in a nutshell and there is really no defense of this.

    By your own, flat standards, they failed unless you think these only apply to offense.

    The Pats D played FAR below their regular season stats.  There is no disputing this either.

    Never in the reqular season, did they go without a 3 & out or a 6 and Out or a turn-over in a single game except the one that counted.

    Their average POOR ( bottom of the barrel) ToP in the regular season was 32 minutes.  They blew that poor stat out of the ubiverse with their stinking 38.

    The facts are the D did NOTHING to help the O and hindered them greatly.

    It is their PRIMARY responsibility to get the ball back to the O.

    You do that by preventing 1st downs.  They allowed the gints 3 + of them a possession, resulting in 10+ play drives.  This is EXTREMELY POOR defensive play. 

    There is no disputing this.

    Listening to Bru, this week he said BB always stresses this to his D,  G.T.F.B.B.

    In case you can't figure it out, it means; GET THE F'N BALL BACK!!!  Major, major FAIL.

    NO TEAM, in the history of the NFL, has ever won a SB with a DPR as bad as the PATS. EVER!  In case you can't understand that, it means NO OFFENSE has ever been able to overcome, with as sh1tty a D as the PATS.    They basically have to beat the other team and over come the hurtin that their own D is putting on them. 

    Montana would have lost with this D.

    Plenty of teams have won with turn overs.  Plenty of teams have won without a pass/run balance.   But NO team has ever won with such a pizz poor DPR.  EVER!!!!!

    There is no disputing this..........................................................................................

    In fact, NO team has even reached the SB with a D as bad as the Pats, EVER!

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    The 9 times each is a bogus number. Kneeldowns and 57 second desperation drives when you need a TD are moot to the point. They each had 8 legit drives.

    Actually the defense played significantly worse than the offense compared to their regular season numbers per drive (despite the O missing the great Gronk's greatness).

    The D gave up 1.9 points per drive on the season vs 2.62 in the SB. Or 37% more points given up per drive than on the season.

    The offense scored 2.12 per drive in the SB vs 2.79 on the season. That's 24% less points per drive than on the season.

    At 8 drives per team using the regular season averages we should have scored ~22 points and given up ~15. Therefore the O scored 5 points less than they should have and the D allowed 7 points more than they should have.

    The D's inability to get even a single turnover probably led to their giving up more points per drive and the lack of Gronk and effective running from the backs probably led to the O's less point production per drive.



    Numbers per drive is complete horsesh-t!  

    Let's just compare their points scored, points against, and who turned it over... you know, the only stats that matter according to Belichick.  

    These convoluted stats per average are your way of squirming out of having to address the offensive ineptitude.  Its circular logic that leads you back to your own flawed conclusions.

    Points scored, points against and turnovers are the only stats that matter, in that order.  

    The Patriots offense scored 17 points but gave back two on a safety as well as turning the ball over = 15 points.   They turned it over again in cruchtime to start the 4th quarter.  15 points, that's nothing close to their regular season average if that's whats important to you, less than half if my math is correct.

    Yes, the defense played average, in fact right at their season average, but received no help from their offense who stunk the joint up.  If they had received any help from the O by way of controlling the clock, maybe they wouldn't have been spent on that last drive.

    You can look at stats using your secret decoder ring, focus on alternate stats that give you whatever data you need to support your BS premise, the simple fact is they play this game for POINTS.  Not points per drive, not PBRs, DBRs, or some other ridiculous stat that nerds sit around and calculate that add up to a hill of beans.  Offense has to score points, defense has to stop them and whoever turns it over reduces their chances of winning drastically.

     

     




    The D allowed more points and the D got no turn-overs.  There's your problem in a nutshell and there is really no defense of this.

    By your own, flat standards, they failed unless you think these only apply to offense.

    The Pats D played FAR below their regular season stats.  There is no disputing this either.

    Never in the reqular season, did they go without a 3 & out or a 6 and Out or a turn-over in a single game except the one that counted.

    Their average POOR ( bottom of the barrel) ToP in the regular season was 32 minutes.  They blew that poor stat out of the ubiverse with their stinking 38.

    The facts are the D did NOTHING to help the O and hindered them greatly.

    It is their PRIMARY responsibility to get the ball back to the O.

    You do that by preventing 1st downs.  They allowed the gints 3 + of them a possession, resulting in 10+ play drives.  This is EXTREMELY POOR defensive play. 

    There is no disputing this.

    Listening to Bru, this week he said BB always stresses this to his D,  G.T.F.B.B.

    In case you can't figure it out, it means; GET THE F'N BALL BACK!!!  Major, major FAIL.

    NO TEAM, in the history of the NFL, has ever won a SB with a DPR as bad as the PATS. EVER!  In case you can't understand that, it means NO OFFENSE has ever been able to overcome, with as sh1tty a D as the PATS.    They basically have to beat the other team and over come the hurtin that their own D is putting on them. 

    Montana would have lost with this D.

    Plenty of teams have won with turn overs.  Plenty of teams have won without a pass/run balance.   But NO team has ever won with such a pizz poor DPR.  EVER!!!!!

    There is no disputing this..........................................................................................

    In fact, NO team has even reached the SB with a D as bad as the Pats, EVER!




    Dear Dummy,

    No one has EVER, and I mean EVER looked at passing yards allowed as the main reason to analyze the quality of a D. 

    The Giants were "ranked" 27th.  That's a difference of 4 spots, which is literally probably 100 yards or something, where garbage time yards are counted. How does that make sense?  The Denver game this year, BB told the D to sit back, tackle and use the clock. There was no point in scheming, showing things on film, etc, with  34-7 lead in the 3rd qtr at home.

    WAKE UP. You're so dumb it's unbelievable.

    Do you really think it's a coincidence GB was "ranked" 32nd and their offense is a juggernaut too?

    Hint: It's not you unadulterated MORON!  THe Colts of 2006 had the 32 ranked RUn D. To me, that is far more offensive than some meaningless passing yards that added up over 16 game schedule.

    Yards allowed happen as much in garbage time situations as it would in just subpar play situations. Also, PI calls, as bogus as we've seen on this team in particular also count as "yards against".

    You have got to be one of the biggest morons of all time.

    BB decides to wisely turn to a youth movement on D in 2010, and he's got an overachieving D in the SB last year with Brady tossing two god awful INTs in the AFC title game and you play ESPN moron talking head here trying to tell us our own D was so bad.

    You are wrong now and were wrong then. IN fact, your whole presence on earth is wrong. lmao

    Brady BEST show up on SUnday night, BIG MOUTH. 

     




    Dear, Mr. irrelevant.

    There is more to it than yards allowed.

    Fact is no team has ever won with the Pats pizz poor DPR. 

    Your distorted opinion doesn't matter.  FACTS ARE FACTS!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    This is turning out to be fun so here is something else to think about:


    2011:           

                                Att       Comp      %      Yards        Avg       YPG        TD  

    Pass Offense         612        402       65.7    5257       8.6        317.8      39

    Pass Defense        619        386       67.4    4977       8.0        293.9      26

    Rush Offense        438                               1764       4.0        110.3      18

    Rush Defense       405                               1874       4.6        117.1      13

    Net yards                                                 +170                    +17.1

     

    2012:           

                                Att       Comp      %      Yards        Avg       YPG        TD  

    Pass Offense         641        402       62.7    4844       7.6        291.4      34

    Pass Defense        594        369       62.1    4555       7.7        271.4      27

    Rush Offense        523                               2184       4.2        136.5      25

    Rush Defense       415                               1630       3.9        101.9      10

    Net yards                                                 +843                    +54.6

    Make your own conclusions but those are the facts.

     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Baltimore's New Defense.

    Those numbers are definitely encouraging.

     
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