BB Considered An All Time Great

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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    Good piece. I won't argue with most of these. Certainly not Bill. 

    I'd go with Landry for 70s and Walsh for the 80s. They were better minds than Shula and Gibbs, who are both great. Gibbs was a great coach, but in reality he had a running team and it was always propelled by "the hogs." Shula, who was great, I've never understood the hype about. 

    But Landry and Walsh are standalone Giants in what they did to revolutionize football. 

    Walsh's offense has been discussed ad nauseum here lately, but Landry's defense is the 1970s equivalent to that.

    It is the probably the most copied defense in NFL history, and shortly after it was conceived and launched full time for the Cowboys all but a few teams were playing without its fundamentals like one-gapping and read-and-react. These are things you now teach to high school athletes and all the way into the pros. Almost every school in the NCAA uses some variation of the Landry defense now. 

    More importantly to his case, the 43 flex began "modern defense" in the NFL. As another point of pride for pro football fans and the relevance of someone to the NFL, unlike *most* coaching innovations, which happen first at the college level, the 43 defense Landry invented happened solely at the NFL level.

    I think his playoff resume stands up to Shula's as well, with five NFC championships and a pair of Superbowls.

    Plus he was a wicked snappy dresser.  

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    Also, of what relevance is any selection for the 2010s????

    It's only three seasons old. So the Packers, Gints, and Ravens really, all have a similar claim.

    Coughlin, who as they say might be the best over the last six seasons, has won only one Superbowl this decade.

    It's way too early. By 2020, it could just as easily be McCarthy or Harbaugh. 

     

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    Tom Coughlin is completely irrelevant.  Seven years of the 2010s haven't been played.  Coughlin's team went 10-6, 9-7 and 9-7 with one playoff appearance in the 2010s, generously giving him 2010 in the 2010s.  The guy inched his way over .500, whoopie-doo, he beats Norv Turner in that respect.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    I love the historical aspects of football, especially the coaches....can't really argue with this list.

     

    "When Pride Still Mattered" by David Maraniss, is one of the best books I've ever read on Vince Lomardi. I'm hoping someone will write something as well as that for Bill Belichick when all is said and done.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I love the historical aspects of football, especially the coaches....can't really argue with this list.

     

    "When Pride Still Mattered" by David Maraniss, is one of the best books I've ever read on Vince Lomardi. I'm hoping someone will write something as well as that for Bill Belichick when all is said and done.

     



    I haven't read that. Funny, though, the first book I ever read and the last book I have re-read was Lombardi's "Run to Daylight." He never properly outlines his RTD zone-blocking theory there, not quite as revolutionary as Landry but close, but the lineaments are all there in his tidbits of coaching talk. 

     

    It does show you how to plan a week out for a single game. It's really cool, and loaded with pictures into Lombardi's mind. I think he, more than anyone, reminds me of Belichik. Just a perfectionist and tireless self critic. He is kind of like the fire to BB's ice though ... 

    "Success is like a habit forming drug that, in victory saps your elation and in defeat deepens your despair." A classic. 

    Is "When Pride Still Mattered" a bio book or an x's an o's kind of affair?

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

         Bill Parcells is grossly underrated, as one of the greatest coaches of all-time. Check out his "coaching tree", and you'll find that BB, Tom Coughlin, and Sean Payton all learned under Mr. Bill. Here's a brief synopsis of what Parcells accomplished over his career, from Wikipedia:

    1.) NY Giants:   

    When Parcells took over in 1983, the New York Giants were a team that had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years. In his first year, he made a controversial decision to bench Phil Simms in favor of Scott Brunner. The result was a disastrous 3–12–1 season during which the Giants seriously considered bringing in University of Miami head coach Howard Schnellenberger to replace Parcells.[21]

    After this dismal first season, Parcells made Simms the starter again. The team's record improved to 9–7 and 10–6 over the next two years, and earned them their first back-to-back playoff appearances since 1961–1963. In 1986, he led the Giants to the first of two Super Bowls. In the 1986 season, the Giants compiled a franchise best 14–2 record and the first of three division titles. Parcells, whose stifling 3–4 defense (known as the Big Blue Wrecking Crew) led by Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Harry Carson, and Leonard Marshall, and an offense under the direction of Phil Simms, knocked off the San Francisco 49ers 49–3, and the Washington Redskins 17–0, in the playoffs before routing the Denver Broncos, 39–20, in Super Bowl XXI. Parcells is credited as the first coach to be dunked with Gatorade at the end of a game and at the end of a Super Bowl which led to a Super Bowl Gatorade dunking tradition. While there are some claims that Chicago Bears coach Mike Ditka had been dunked a year earlier,[22] NFL Films president Steve Sabol has stated that he can find no evidence to support it in any footage he has reviewed and that he believes the tradition started with Parcells and Jim Burt.[23]

    Following the Super Bowl win, Parcells was courted by the Atlanta Falcons to become the Head Coach and General Manager of the franchise. However NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle would not allow Parcells to break his contract with the Giants and he stayed in New York.[24]

    Parcells led the Giants to a second Super Bowl in 1990. The Giants began the 1990 season 10–0, and finished 13–3, but lost Simms to injury late in the season. Playing with a back-up quarterback in Jeff Hostetler and a 33-year-old veteran running back in Ottis Anderson, the Giants convincingly defeated the Chicago Bears in the divisional playoff, 31–3, and won in dramatic, come-from-behind fashion over San Francisco, 15–13, in the NFC Championship on a last-second 42-yard field goal by Matt Bahr which was set up by a Roger Craig fumble caused by nose tackle Erik Howard. Super Bowl XXV proved equally exciting as the Giants used tough defense, and a ball-control and power-running Erhardt – Perkins style offense to stop the Buffalo Bills, 20–19, whose own last-second 47-yard field goal attempt by Scott Norwood missed wide right. Parcells retired from football after Super Bowl XXV due to health problems. During his tenure, the Giants had secured three division titles (1986, 1989, 1990), had only two losing seasons (the Giants went 6–9 during the strike year of 1987) and tallied an 8–3 playoff record. IN ADDITION, Parcells turned the Giants around...from a "Jets-like" joke, into a serious contender. Against Joe Gibbs, Parcells finished 9-6 (after losing three in a row when he first took over the Giants, and they were terrible) against Joe Gibbs' Redskins;

    2.) New England Patriots: After a two-year hiatus, Parcells returned to the NFL in 1993 as the head coach for the New England Patriots. Within two years, he coached the team to a 10–6 record and its first playoff game in eight years. In 1996, he guided the Patriots to Super Bowl XXXI but lost to the Green Bay Packers, 35–21, in New Orleans.

    Parcells left the Patriots after disagreements with owner Robert Kraft; Parcells felt he did not have enough input in player personnel decisions. Upon his departure, Parcells famously stated: "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries. Okay?" This was mainly in reference to an incident in the Patriots' war room during the 1996 Draft where Parcells, who wanted to draft a defensive player with their first-round choice, was vetoed by Kraft, and the Patriots selected Ohio State WR Terry Glenn;

    3.) NY Jets:

    Although Parcells had decided to leave New England, his contract did not allow him to coach anywhere else. The New York Jets sought Parcells as head coach and general manager after a 4–28 record under Rich Kotite. To circumvent Parcells' contractual obligations, the Jets hired Bill Belichick (then the No. 1 assistant to Parcells) as the Jets coach, and then hired Parcells in an "advisory" role. New England threatened legal action against Parcells and the Jets, but NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue brokered a deal between the two sides, with New England releasing Parcells from his contract and the Jets giving New England a third and fourth round pick that year, a second round pick the next year and a first round draft choice the year after that.

    1997–98: Parcells again orchestrated a remarkable turnaround in his first year with the Jets. In his first season with the Jets, the team barely missed the playoffs with a record of 9–7. In 1998, the Jets went to the playoffs with a 12–4 record, which was good enough for second place in the conference [26] [27] and earned the Jets their third home playoff game since moving to New Jersey in 1984 (their first home playoff game was against the New England Patriots following the 1985 season), but lost to the eventual Super Bowl-champion Denver Broncos in the AFC Championship Game. 1999: In 1999, expectations were high for the Jets to go to the Super Bowl. However, quarterback Vinny Testaverderuptured his achilles tendon in the Jets home opener and the season went downhill from there. After starting the season 1–6, the Jets won three straight and faced the Indianapolis Colts. Parcells emphasized the importance of not obtaining a "7th loss" but they did lose to the Colts and then to the New York Giants the following week. At 4–8, the Jets were in danger of finishing below .500. The Jets would finish 8–8, but out of the playoffs. In 1999, Bill Parcells retired from football for the second time, vowing that he would not coach again. He remained with the Jets one more year as general manager. To date, he is the only Jets coach to leave the team with a winning record after coaching at least two seasons;

    4.) Dallas Cowboys:

    Following three straight 5–11 seasons, Dallas Cowboys' owner Jerry Jones lured Bill Parcells out of retirement and made him the head coach in 2003.

    2003: In his first season with the Cowboys, he led them to the playoffs with a 10–6 record (losing to the eventual NFC Champion Carolina Panthers in the opening round), thus making him the first head coach in NFL history to guide four different teams to the playoffs. 2004: The 2004 season was one of turmoil. Starting quarterback Quincy Carter was terminated for alleged drug use in favor of 40-year-old veteran Vinny Testaverde, who had been brought to the Cowboys from the New York Jets by his former coach in the off-season. While a favorite of Coach Parcells, Testaverde proved ineffective as a starter. The Cowboys started strong, with victories against the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins, but injuries, older personnel, spotty play calling, and persistent penalties hobbled the Cowboys, and they quickly fell off to a 3–5 record by midseason, finishing the season 6–10. 2005: The Cowboys improved their defense before the 2005 season with the additions of first round draft picks Demarcus Ware and Marcus Spears. Parcells drafted these players in hopes of jumpstarting the team's transition from the traditional 4–3 defense to a 3–4 defense, which Parcells had run in all of his previous stops. Jerry Jones also added a number of high-priced older veteran players, acquiring nose tackle Jason Ferguson and cornerback Anthony Henry via free agency, and linebacker Scott Fujita via the Kansas City Chiefs. On offense, the Cowboys felt the need to upgrade their passing game to complement their top 2004 draft pick, running back Julius Jones, and acquired quarterback Drew Bledsoe via free agency. During his tenure, Parcells made a point of signing players who had played for him in the past, including Bledsoe, Terry Glenn (with the Patriots), Testaverde, cornerback Aaron Glenn, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson and fullback Richie Anderson with the Jets. In 2005, the Cowboys went 9–7, missing the playoffs by one game. 2006: In 2006 the Cowboys signed controversial former Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens. Keyshawn Johnson was released and signed with the Carolina Panthers. Owens, whom Parcells never referred to by name, but rather as "The Player", was fairly successful with the team. In week 7 of the 2006 season, Parcells decided to replace veteran quarterback Drew Bledsoe with fourth year quarterback Tony Romo. The Cowboys were 6–4 with Romo as the starter. They finished the season with a 9–7 overall record but failed to win the NFC East Division after a 23–7 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles on Christmas Day in week 16 followed by a loss to the last-place team in the NFC North, the Detroit Lions in week 17. They were able to clinch a playoff berth as the 5th seed in the NFC, eventually losing 21–20 against the Seahawks in Seattle on January 6, on a botched hold by Tony Romoduring a field goal attempt.

    Parcells would finish his Dallas stint with a 34–32 record and no playoff wins.

        

          In each case above, Parcells almost overnight took sad sack teams and turned them into contenders. He belongs among the top rated coaches of all-time.

         Parcells also got the better of Bill Walsh and the 49ers, in playoff tilts. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    Here is the big secret with Bill Parcells and why being a great motivator and coach, but he is OVERRATED in the grand pantheon of coaches. Parcells is like a Shananan, Jimmy Johnson and that kind of tier.  He's not really on the Mt Rushmore with all the greats.

    He didn't exclusively put his staff together either. George Young, the HOF GM, brought in some guys, too. BB wasn't just there because he and Parcells had a chance meeting and Parcells realized how brilliant BB was and that he could use him.

    Parcells gets credit for surrounding himself with good or great cocaches, yes. But, those coaches were already molded and established before arriving.

    Parcells also struggled without BB by his side, which will always be the dead giveaway which hurts Parcell's ultimate legacy. It was BB the whole time. 

     



         Want more proof of how underrated Parcells was? Rusty thinks that he's overrated. LOL!!

     

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

     

    Here is the big secret with Bill Parcells and why being a great motivator and coach, but he is OVERRATED in the grand pantheon of coaches. Parcells is like a Shananan, Jimmy Johnson and that kind of tier.  He's not really on the Mt Rushmore with all the greats.

    He didn't exclusively put his staff together either. George Young, the HOF GM, brought in some guys, too. BB wasn't just there because he and Parcells had a chance meeting and Parcells realized how brilliant BB was and that he could use him.

    Parcells gets credit for surrounding himself with good or great cocaches, yes. But, those coaches were already molded and established before arriving.

    Parcells also struggled without BB by his side, which will always be the dead giveaway which hurts Parcell's ultimate legacy. It was BB the whole time. 

     



         Want more proof of how underrated Parcells was? Rusty thinks that he's overrated. LOL!!

     

     

     



    If you're trying to prop him up againt the Browns and Lombardis or BB type legends, yes, that would mean he's overrated in that discussion.

     

    Walsh was a better coach than Parcells. I can give you PArcells in line with Gibbs, but the uber elite all time greats aren't guys like Gibbs and Parcells.

     




    Gibbs tarnished his own legacy when he was lured back to coaching.   But 3 SB wins with 3 different QBs will likely not happen again.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         Bill Parcells is grossly underrated, as one of the greatest coaches of all-time. Check out his "coaching tree", and you'll find that BB, Tom Coughlin, and Sean Payton all learned under Mr. Bill. Here's a brief synopsis of what Parcells accomplished over his career, from Wikipedia:

    1.) NY Giants:   

    When Parcells took over in 1983, the New York Giants were a team that had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years. In his first year, he made a controversial decision to bench Phil Simms in favor of Scott Brunner. The result was a disastrous 3–12–1 season during which the Giants seriously considered bringing in University of Miami head coach Howard Schnellenberger to replace Parcells.[21]

    After this dismal first season, Parcells made Simms the starter again. The team's record improved to 9–7 and 10–6 over the next two years, and earned them their first back-to-back playoff appearances since 1961–1963. In 1986, he led the Giants to the first of two Super Bowls. In the 1986 season, the Giants compiled a franchise best 14–2 record and the first of three division titles. Parcells, whose stifling 3–4 defense (known as the Big Blue Wrecking Crew) led by Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Harry Carson, and Leonard Marshall, and an offense under the direction of Phil Simms, knocked off the San Francisco 49ers 49–3, and the Washington Redskins 17–0, in the playoffs before routing the Denver Broncos, 39–20, in Super Bowl XXI. Parcells is credited as the first coach to be dunked with Gatorade at the end of a game and at the end of a Super Bowl which led to a Super Bowl Gatorade dunking tradition. While there are some claims that Chicago Bears coach Mike Ditka had been dunked a year earlier,[22] NFL Films president Steve Sabol has stated that he can find no evidence to support it in any footage he has reviewed and that he believes the tradition started with Parcells and Jim Burt.[23]

    Following the Super Bowl win, Parcells was courted by the Atlanta Falcons to become the Head Coach and General Manager of the franchise. However NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle would not allow Parcells to break his contract with the Giants and he stayed in New York.[24]

    Parcells led the Giants to a second Super Bowl in 1990. The Giants began the 1990 season 10–0, and finished 13–3, but lost Simms to injury late in the season. Playing with a back-up quarterback in Jeff Hostetler and a 33-year-old veteran running back in Ottis Anderson, the Giants convincingly defeated the Chicago Bears in the divisional playoff, 31–3, and won in dramatic, come-from-behind fashion over San Francisco, 15–13, in the NFC Championship on a last-second 42-yard field goal by Matt Bahr which was set up by a Roger Craig fumble caused by nose tackle Erik Howard. Super Bowl XXV proved equally exciting as the Giants used tough defense, and a ball-control and power-running Erhardt – Perkins style offense to stop the Buffalo Bills, 20–19, whose own last-second 47-yard field goal attempt by Scott Norwood missed wide right. Parcells retired from football after Super Bowl XXV due to health problems. During his tenure, the Giants had secured three division titles (1986, 1989, 1990), had only two losing seasons (the Giants went 6–9 during the strike year of 1987) and tallied an 8–3 playoff record. IN ADDITION, Parcells turned the Giants around...from a "Jets-like" joke, into a serious contender. Against Joe Gibbs, Parcells finished 9-6 (after losing three in a row when he first took over the Giants, and they were terrible) against Joe Gibbs' Redskins;

    2.) New England Patriots: After a two-year hiatus, Parcells returned to the NFL in 1993 as the head coach for the New England Patriots. Within two years, he coached the team to a 10–6 record and its first playoff game in eight years. In 1996, he guided the Patriots to Super Bowl XXXI but lost to the Green Bay Packers, 35–21, in New Orleans.

    Parcells left the Patriots after disagreements with owner Robert Kraft; Parcells felt he did not have enough input in player personnel decisions. Upon his departure, Parcells famously stated: "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries. Okay?" This was mainly in reference to an incident in the Patriots' war room during the 1996 Draft where Parcells, who wanted to draft a defensive player with their first-round choice, was vetoed by Kraft, and the Patriots selected Ohio State WR Terry Glenn;

    3.) NY Jets:

    Although Parcells had decided to leave New England, his contract did not allow him to coach anywhere else. The New York Jets sought Parcells as head coach and general manager after a 4–28 record under Rich Kotite. To circumvent Parcells' contractual obligations, the Jets hired Bill Belichick (then the No. 1 assistant to Parcells) as the Jets coach, and then hired Parcells in an "advisory" role. New England threatened legal action against Parcells and the Jets, but NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue brokered a deal between the two sides, with New England releasing Parcells from his contract and the Jets giving New England a third and fourth round pick that year, a second round pick the next year and a first round draft choice the year after that.

    1997–98: Parcells again orchestrated a remarkable turnaround in his first year with the Jets. In his first season with the Jets, the team barely missed the playoffs with a record of 9–7. In 1998, the Jets went to the playoffs with a 12–4 record, which was good enough for second place in the conference [26] [27] and earned the Jets their third home playoff game since moving to New Jersey in 1984 (their first home playoff game was against the New England Patriots following the 1985 season), but lost to the eventual Super Bowl-champion Denver Broncos in the AFC Championship Game. 1999: In 1999, expectations were high for the Jets to go to the Super Bowl. However, quarterback Vinny Testaverderuptured his achilles tendon in the Jets home opener and the season went downhill from there. After starting the season 1–6, the Jets won three straight and faced the Indianapolis Colts. Parcells emphasized the importance of not obtaining a "7th loss" but they did lose to the Colts and then to the New York Giants the following week. At 4–8, the Jets were in danger of finishing below .500. The Jets would finish 8–8, but out of the playoffs. In 1999, Bill Parcells retired from football for the second time, vowing that he would not coach again. He remained with the Jets one more year as general manager. To date, he is the only Jets coach to leave the team with a winning record after coaching at least two seasons;

    4.) Dallas Cowboys:

    Following three straight 5–11 seasons, Dallas Cowboys' owner Jerry Jones lured Bill Parcells out of retirement and made him the head coach in 2003.

    2003: In his first season with the Cowboys, he led them to the playoffs with a 10–6 record (losing to the eventual NFC Champion Carolina Panthers in the opening round), thus making him the first head coach in NFL history to guide four different teams to the playoffs. 2004: The 2004 season was one of turmoil. Starting quarterback Quincy Carter was terminated for alleged drug use in favor of 40-year-old veteran Vinny Testaverde, who had been brought to the Cowboys from the New York Jets by his former coach in the off-season. While a favorite of Coach Parcells, Testaverde proved ineffective as a starter. The Cowboys started strong, with victories against the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins, but injuries, older personnel, spotty play calling, and persistent penalties hobbled the Cowboys, and they quickly fell off to a 3–5 record by midseason, finishing the season 6–10. 2005: The Cowboys improved their defense before the 2005 season with the additions of first round draft picks Demarcus Ware and Marcus Spears. Parcells drafted these players in hopes of jumpstarting the team's transition from the traditional 4–3 defense to a 3–4 defense, which Parcells had run in all of his previous stops. Jerry Jones also added a number of high-priced older veteran players, acquiring nose tackle Jason Ferguson and cornerback Anthony Henry via free agency, and linebacker Scott Fujita via the Kansas City Chiefs. On offense, the Cowboys felt the need to upgrade their passing game to complement their top 2004 draft pick, running back Julius Jones, and acquired quarterback Drew Bledsoe via free agency. During his tenure, Parcells made a point of signing players who had played for him in the past, including Bledsoe, Terry Glenn (with the Patriots), Testaverde, cornerback Aaron Glenn, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson and fullback Richie Anderson with the Jets. In 2005, the Cowboys went 9–7, missing the playoffs by one game. 2006: In 2006 the Cowboys signed controversial former Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens. Keyshawn Johnson was released and signed with the Carolina Panthers. Owens, whom Parcells never referred to by name, but rather as "The Player", was fairly successful with the team. In week 7 of the 2006 season, Parcells decided to replace veteran quarterback Drew Bledsoe with fourth year quarterback Tony Romo. The Cowboys were 6–4 with Romo as the starter. They finished the season with a 9–7 overall record but failed to win the NFC East Division after a 23–7 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles on Christmas Day in week 16 followed by a loss to the last-place team in the NFC North, the Detroit Lions in week 17. They were able to clinch a playoff berth as the 5th seed in the NFC, eventually losing 21–20 against the Seahawks in Seattle on January 6, on a botched hold by Tony Romoduring a field goal attempt.

    Parcells would finish his Dallas stint with a 34–32 record and no playoff wins.

        

          In each case above, Parcells almost overnight took sad sack teams and turned them into contenders. He belongs among the top rated coaches of all-time.

         Parcells also got the better of Bill Walsh and the 49ers, in playoff tilts. 

     

     




    i always did consider you exceedingly knowledgable TP  

     

    Laughing

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

         Idiots like Rusty tend to hate on Bill Parcells because of the way he left the Patriots...seemingly having one foot in Jetsland, instead of focusing solely on beating the Green Bay Packers in SB 31. There's also some lingering annimosity based on Mr. Bill's tiff with Bob Kraft, and him stealing away RB Curtis Martin through free agency.

         That said...Pats fans should always remember that it was Parcells...not BB, who changed the mindset of this franchise from clown car riders to winners. He brought BB to New England with him...and thus introduced BB to Kraft. Parcells also was responsible for allowing BB to move on to New England, through a trade...after he and Bob Kraft "buried the hatchet". 

         In closing, placing Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh ahead of Parcells on the list of greatest coaches makes the coaching list in the above article a joke. Parcells routinely outcoached Gibbs, and got the better of Walsh in playoff games. Furthermlore, Walsh had far better talent to work with in San Francisco, than Mr. Bill did in NY. Who couldn't win with those dominant, all-star laiden 49er teams of the 80s? 

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I love the historical aspects of football, especially the coaches....can't really argue with this list.

     

    "When Pride Still Mattered" by David Maraniss, is one of the best books I've ever read on Vince Lomardi. I'm hoping someone will write something as well as that for Bill Belichick when all is said and done.

     



    I haven't read that. Funny, though, the first book I ever read and the last book I have re-read was Lombardi's "Run to Daylight." He never properly outlines his RTD zone-blocking theory there, not quite as revolutionary as Landry but close, but the lineaments are all there in his tidbits of coaching talk. 

     

    It does show you how to plan a week out for a single game. It's really cool, and loaded with pictures into Lombardi's mind. I think he, more than anyone, reminds me of Belichik. Just a perfectionist and tireless self critic. He is kind of like the fire to BB's ice though ... 

    "Success is like a habit forming drug that, in victory saps your elation and in defeat deepens your despair." A classic. 

    Is "When Pride Still Mattered" a bio book or an x's an o's kind of affair?



    No it's more a bio - it takes you through his life, but the detail is amazing and the behind the scenes stuff is exceptional as well. I read "Run to Daylight" and love that too. The book on Jerry Kramer "Instant Replay" was pretty good too because it just took you back into those times...the money they made, the cars they drove, the nights out they had. It was intersting and a little nostalgic.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

    "When Pride Still Mattered" by David Maraniss, is one of the best books I've ever read on Vince Lomardi. I'm hoping someone will write something as well as that for Bill Belichick when all is said and done.

    RESPONSE: Agreed. A very good read for football fans. As for a BB book...I'm sure you've read Patriot Reign...which gives insights on BB's football philosophies. 

     ...I read "Run to Daylight" and love that too. The book on Jerry Kramer "Instant Replay" was pretty good too because it just took you back into those times...the money they made, the cars they drove, the nights out they had. It was intersting and a little nostalgic.

    RESPONSE: I too read those years ago. Just picked up a book by Bart Starr on leadership. You can see why the Packers were winners. Reading up on guys like Lombardi and UCLA basketball icon John Wooden (I highly recommend his books to you) should be required reading for people in leadership positions. Wooden's books should be required reading in schools. Great stuff!

     




     

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    ESPN presently is running its tease day by day its list of 20 greatest coaches in NFL history

    20 Tony Dungy

    19 Mike Shanahan

    18 Sid Gilman

    17 Mark Levy

    16  Hank Strum

    15 Bud Grant

    14 Tom Coughlin

    13 Jimmy Johnson

    12 John Madden

    11 Bill Parcells

    10 Curly Lambeau

    Of course this is just another list, but looks like it will rank BB higher than Parcells, how much higher remains to be seen.

    Guess who will be the rest higher on the list?

    Lombardi, BB, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll, BB, Landry, Paul Brown, Don Shula likely will be there. That would be 8. The other one: Cowher? Holmgren ? Halas ? Ditka ? Gibbs? They are not less deserving than some on the announced list.

     

     


     

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:


    Cowher should not be anywhere near BB or in the top 10 of an all time coaching list. He lost 4 home AFC title games and only has 1 ring in 15 years.

     

    He and Dungy are two of the more overrated NFL coaches of the last 25 years. Holmgren is also a bit overrated. 

    I also don't think Tom Coughlin should be in the top 15.  That's a little silly.  Tom Flores has 2 SB rings, too and neither of them are from pure luck with a catch off the top of a helmet on a holding play.

     



    I agree with you. I think Gibbs will be the 9th.  Halas may be from too long ago that his accomplishment may not be as well remembered.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    I put BB in twice, my list was actually 7. In no particular order Lombardi, Walsh, BB,  Brown, Noll, Landry, Shula.  So there are 2 spots remaining on the remaining 9, I agree with Clifford they will be Halas and Gibbs.

     
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    Re: BB Considered An All Time Great

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         Idiots like Rusty tend to hate on Bill Parcells because of the way he left the Patriots...seemingly having one foot in Jetsland, instead of focusing solely on beating the Green Bay Packers in SB 31. There's also some lingering annimosity based on Mr. Bill's tiff with Bob Kraft, and him stealing away RB Curtis Martin through free agency.

         That said...Pats fans should always remember that it was Parcells...not BB, who changed the mindset of this franchise from clown car riders to winners. He brought BB to New England with him...and thus introduced BB to Kraft. Parcells also was responsible for allowing BB to move on to New England, through a trade...after he and Bob Kraft "buried the hatchet". 

         In closing, placing Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh ahead of Parcells on the list of greatest coaches makes the coaching list in the above article a joke. Parcells routinely outcoached Gibbs, and got the better of Walsh in playoff games. Furthermlore, Walsh had far better talent to work with in San Francisco, than Mr. Bill did in NY. Who couldn't win with those dominant, all-star laiden 49er teams of the 80s? 

     



    tex you and i know without parcells there would be no bellichick (and bellichick knows it too) and had parcells stayed in one place he could have won more titles and parcells is the only one in nfl history to turn around 4 separate franchises and one of only 3 to take 2 separate teams to sb's including the sad sack patriots and parcells drafted key parts of bb's title teams which bb has never replaced or won without and the "patriot way" is really the parcells way etc etc etc and i have said it every which way possible-and yeah i could be rusty and post about 100 different articles articulating it better than i can but...

     

    i dont bother correcting anyone here much anymore-especially el queeno-because pats fans have a h*rd on about parcells and rusty thinks BB was ordained by Moses and created the forward pass and kicking the football thru the goalposts and it's a sore spot that both made their bones with the giants and all the other silly reasons they live in denial so i figure i will just leave it that-long as the better and more honest/objective types like you know the truth-and it drives rusty up a tree-that is more than enough for me!

    so as I always say

    PARCELLS THE MASTER!

     

    Cool

     
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