BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    BB will make sure his offense is water tight to compensate for any potential defensive weaknesses. The OL has an urgent need with Light, Mankins and the center position vulnerable in the short term. I fully expext BB to draft Konz with pick 27. Konz is NFL ready. Connley can then adequately fill as a starter or backup at multiple OL positions. This scenario assumes that Barron is gone prior to Pats pick. With Konz and Barron available, BB may actually trade up to get both. If not, pick 31 and 93 will be traded for a 2013 first and another second. Hoyer or Mallet will be traded for another second. The main reason BB will draft OL is that there is significant separation between Konz and other C/OL prospects, primarily Jones and Zeitler who can be drafted in mid to late second round. There IS NOT significant separation at DE, DT and CB. Value is in the second round. and given other team needs, many players projected as first round Pats picks will be available. 27 - Konz C 31 - TRADED with 93 (2013 first and 2012 mid-second round pick) Mid second round pick - best available - DE (Keyes, Curry, Branch?) Mid second Hoyer trade- best available CB (Jenkins, Dennard Hosley?) 48 - best available DT (Crick, Jones, Ta Amau?) 64 - best available OLB or S (McClellin, Smith, Johnson, Fleming?)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]BB will make sure his offense is water tight to compensate for any potential defensive weaknesses. The OL has an urgent need with Light, Mankins and the center position vulnerable in the short term. I fully expext BB to draft Konz with pick 27. Konz is NFL ready. Connley can then adequately fill as a starter or backup at multiple OL positions. This scenario assumes that Barron is gone prior to Pats pick. With Konz and Barron available, BB may actually trade up to get both. If not, pick 31 and 93 will be traded for a 2013 first and another second. Hoyer or Mallet will be traded for another second. The main reason BB will draft OL is that there is significant separation between Konz and other C/OL prospects, primarily Jones and Zeitler who can be drafted in mid to late second round.

    RESPONSE: I don't see Konz being selected this high, especially by the Patriots. If you want to talk history, recall that C Dan Koppen was a 5th round selection. Dan Connelly proved that he could do the job at center last year. The Pats likely wouldn't have resigned him for what they paid him, unless they planned to start him. That said, I do expect that the Pats will do something to address the OG/OC positions, either late in the draft, or through free agency. There's still a possibility that, for the right price, they will resign Koppen. Should Matt Light retire, the Pats will have lots of extra cap room to play with. Also, don't be surprised if the Pats make some kind of move for a RB.   

    There IS NOT significant separation at DE, DT and CB. Value is in the second round. and given other team needs, many players projected as first round Pats picks will be available. 27 - Konz C 31 - TRADED with 93 (2013 first and 2012 mid-second round pick) Mid second round pick - best available - DE (Keyes, Curry, Branch?) Mid second Hoyer trade- best available CB (Jenkins, Dennard Hosley?) 48 - best available DT (Crick, Jones, Ta Amau?) 64 - best available OLB or S (McClellin, Smith, Johnson, Fleming?)

    RESPONSE: Dunk...I expect that the Pats will address their defense, unless a stud offensive lineman, or skill player falls to them. I also am confident the BB will trade down at either #27, #31, or both. He'll do so because, as you correctly have pointed out, there's a ton of quality depth at OLB, DL, and CB.
    Posted by elDunker2[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    Hoyer isnt going anywhere this year. Nobody wanted him during Free Agency, so barring something crazy happening hoyer is the backup QB this year, with the possibility of getting cut in training camp depending on mallet performance.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]Hoyer isnt going anywhere this year. Nobody wanted him during Free Agency, so barring something crazy happening hoyer is the backup QB this year, with the possibility of getting cut in training camp depending on mallet performance.
    Posted by ChasaB[/QUOTE]

         I don't see the Pats cutting Hoyer. Cap space isn't an issue for them...and Hoyer is good insurance to have, backing up the 35 year old Brady.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    I appreciate the sentiment of this thread and maybe some of the above mentioned targets will actually turn out to be Patriots but ...

    For the 7,531st time -
    NOBODY is giving up a 2nd for Hoyer
    ( He's only under contract for 1 more season so even a 4th would be tough to squeeze out*)
    .
    .
    .

    * - Feel free to interject fecal related comments
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]BB will make sure his offense is water tight to compensate for any potential defensive weaknesses.
    Posted by elDunker2[/QUOTE]

    If this is in fact the case, how did the "water tight offense" work out for Pat's in the Super Bowl (or 2 for that matter) when the offense couldn't score more than two TD's, couldn't convert first downs to give the defense a breather and couldn't execute in the final minute?

    I think if you're going to run this inefficient offense the defense has to be as good as the Raven's in 2000... better draft defense instead and find a running game so you have an option besides passing.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 81patsfan. Show 81patsfan's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : If this is in fact the case, how did the "water tight offense" work out for Pat's in the Super Bowl (or 2 for that matter) when the offense couldn't score more than two TD's, couldn't convert first downs to give the defense a breather and couldn't execute in the final minute? I think if you're going to run this inefficient offense the defense has to be as good as the Raven's in 2000... better draft defense instead and find a running game so you have an option besides passing.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    You do realize your post is irrelevant because this isnt the exact same offense from the superbowl, bill obrien ran that offense, mcdaniels is in charge now,and with different weapons this time from 07
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    When it comes to the pats and drafting OLineman, here's some history:

    Vollmer, 2nd rounder, shocked "experts"
    Mankins, end of 1st, was a "reach"
    Solder, mid-1st, was raw, and a slight "reach"
    Cannon had cancer as a 4th

    I never know what to expect out of the Pats. Scar will undoubtedly have a few suggestions, and when they take one, I'll expect him to be starting caliber within the first few weeks. I can't remember the last time the Pats missed on an OLineman...Eugene Chung? I blame Pete Carroll for that....why wouldn't I? Ohrnberger as a 4th? Out of the league last year, ok. Some other 5th and later guys aren't around, but everyone is a gamble from 5 on.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]BB will make sure his offense is water tight to compensate for any potential defensive weaknesses. The OL has an urgent need with Light, Mankins and the center position vulnerable in the short term. I fully expext BB to draft Konz with pick 27. Konz is NFL ready. Connley can then adequately fill as a starter or backup at multiple OL positions. This scenario assumes that Barron is gone prior to Pats pick. With Konz and Barron available, BB may actually trade up to get both. If not, pick 31 and 93 will be traded for a 2013 first and another second. Hoyer or Mallet will be traded for another second. The main reason BB will draft OL is that there is significant separation between Konz and other C/OL prospects, primarily Jones and Zeitler who can be drafted in mid to late second round. There IS NOT significant separation at DE, DT and CB. Value is in the second round. and given other team needs, many players projected as first round Pats picks will be available. 27 - Konz C 31 - TRADED with 93 (2013 first and 2012 mid-second round pick) Mid second round pick - best available - DE (Keyes, Curry, Branch?) Mid second Hoyer trade- best available CB (Jenkins, Dennard Hosley?) 48 - best available DT (Crick, Jones, Ta Amau?) 64 - best available OLB or S (McClellin, Smith, Johnson, Fleming?)
    Posted by elDunker2[/QUOTE]

    El, why do you think Konz is that much better than Jones? 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : El, why do you think Konz is that much better than Jones? 
    Posted by MoreRings[/QUOTE]

    Like most folks in here, he has no idea its just what he reads!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    Good question. In short athleticism, speed, versitility and size. I think Konz is a starter on day one and is better prepared to play OG than Jones. BB likes versatility. Konz's 6'5"" frame plus faster speed and quicker feet than a 6'1"" Jones is a substantial size difference and BB covets size on the OL. I think Konz has the physical and mental tools to be an all star and dominate at either C or OG. Its tough to pass on a sure thing in the first round. I don't think Jones, or any DEs, DTs (other than maybe Stills) or CBs that will be available at 27 are sure things.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In response to "Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself": [QUOTE]I appreciate the sentiment of this thread and maybe some of the above mentioned targets will actually turn out to be Patriots but ... For the 7,531st time - NOBODY is giving up a 2nd for Hoyer ( He's only under contract for 1 more season so even a 4th would be tough to squeeze out*) . . . * - Feel free to interject fecal related comments Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE] Ya. Agree. I moved too quickley on the post. Hoyer or Mallet plus our 2013 5th for a 2012 second. I really think BB is drooling over the talent in this years second round that address our immediate position needs to substantially improve while we have Brady for the next 2-3 years. If Mallet was "a steal" in the second round with tutoring from the best, why would his stock drop now? and if Hoyer is ahead of him as a backup, I think that now that the dust has settled on FA QBs, with especially backup needs unfilled, (like SF) Hoyer will generate renewed interest.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    I think BB should target the front 7 with the first 3 picks 2 pass-rusher(Perry, Curry, Jones,Irvin, McClellin,Mercilus,Upshaw) a DT ( worthy, still, reyes, or brockers) a CB one that excels in man-to-man coverage ( jenkins, kirkpatrick, gilmore,boykin,hayward, hosley,robinson ) the next three picks can go for a big WR (childs,toon,quick,jones, McNutt,posey) a safety ( Smith, Iloka, martin ) and then target the O-line (osemele,silatolu,wynn,zeitler,brewster,jones,blake)

    I'll be very happy with any of them.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    Maybe not front 7, but defense with the first 2 picks.  Jones with the 3rd,
    we need young talent to learn the system behind Connely and Koppen this
    this year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : You do realize your post is irrelevant because this isnt the exact same offense from the superbowl, bill obrien ran that offense, mcdaniels is in charge now,and with different weapons this time from 07
    Posted by 81patsfan[/QUOTE]

         His post is silly anyway, since he's complaining about two teams, the 2007 and 2011 Patriots, that reached the SB...and came within an eyelash of winning the whole thing, each year. I'd take my chances in a SB, anytime...any year!

         The whinning over the "bad defense" costing those teams championships is ridiculous. In 2007, poor OL play led to the "mighty" Pats offense scoring just 14 points. In 2011, failure of the offense to execute the big plays down the stretch cost the Pats the game.   
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself :      His post is silly anyway, since he's complaining about two teams, the 2007 and 2011 Patriots, that reached the SB...and came within an eyelash of winning the whole thing, each year. I'd take my chances in a SB, anytime...any year!      The whinning over the "bad defense" costing those teams championships is ridiculous. In 2007, poor OL play led to the "mighty" Pats offense scoring just 14 points. In 2011, failure of the offense to execute the big plays down the stretch cost the Pats the game.   
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    The idea that a "watertight" offense can beat a top notch defense in the playoff's is a joke. It takes an entire team, 3 phases, both running and passing.

    The Patriot offense was amazing in the regular season both in 2007 (greatest ever?) and 2011 (3rd points/2nd yards) but when the game was on the line the Giant's superior defense held them to two touchdowns in two championship games. Saying that the Pat's were talent deficient on offense is silly, compared to who?

    Both 2007/2011 offense's were pass happy in the Super Bowl and chose not to run, see the significance yet?  

    I didn't coin the term "defense wins championships" but somehow I find it relevant.  The premise of this thread is flawed to say the least...


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    If by BB's draft history repeating itself you mean 2001-2004 when he drafted 3 of the best D-linemen in the draft in the 1st round then I agree.

    I think BB loaded up on FA offensive talent and will now go back to the winning way, by drafting top tier defensive line talent. I am reading the "War Room" by Holley again and it just re-confirms everything I have ever thought about BB's drafting philosophy. Offensive players on the whole are over rated. You will find more wr/rb/o-line busts then you will on the defense.

    I think we will draft Nick Perry(the best measurables for a DE imo) and then either Harrison Smith or the best DT available. We may take a safety(smith) over the Dt at #31 since we can probably get a DT in rd 2 as good as whoever is available at#31. Follow that up by getting another DE/olb and then find another guard/center project in the later rounds(Kazcur,Neal,Light,etc)

    IMO our offensive line is a strength. Anytime a team can throw more then they EVER have and have the QB break the all time passing yards record they have a great pass blocking o-line. I saw Marcus Cannon as a wall by the end of last year. Konz= no thanks.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 81patsfan. Show 81patsfan's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : The idea that a "watertight" offense can beat a top notch defense in the playoff's is a joke. It takes an entire team, 3 phases, both running and passing. The Patriot offense was amazing in the regular season both in 2007 (greatest ever?) and 2011 (3rd points/2nd yards) but when the game was on the line the Giant's superior defense held them to two touchdowns in two championship games. Saying that the Pat's were talent deficient on offense is silly, compared to who? Both 2007/2011 offense's were pass happy in the Super Bowl and chose not to run, see the significance yet?   I didn't coin the term " defense wins championships " but somehow I find it relevant.  The premise of this thread is flawed to say the least...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : The idea that a "watertight" offense can beat a top notch defense in the playoff's is a joke. It takes an entire team, 3 phases, both running and passing. The Patriot offense was amazing in the regular season both in 2007 (greatest ever?) and 2011 (3rd points/2nd yards) but when the game was on the line the Giant's superior defense held them to two touchdowns in two championship games. Saying that the Pat's were talent deficient on offense is silly, compared to who? Both 2007/2011 offense's were pass happy in the Super Bowl and chose not to run, see the significance yet?   I didn't coin the term " defense wins championships " but somehow I find it relevant.  The premise of this thread is flawed to say the least...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

         The Giants' "D" was 29th overall last year...yet they still won the SB. I'm getting tired of reading posts here completely trashing the Pats, just because they came up a play short of winning a SB, in 2007 and 2011. Sure...those losses were very disappointing. But, lack of execution by the offense had as much to do with those losses as the failure by the "D" to make a last minute stand. In both of those losses, the defense overall played better than expected.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself :      The Giants' "D" was 29th overall last year...yet they still won the SB. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Much like the Pats, the Giants defense started poorly and improved as the season marched on, the Giant's defense was the best in the playoffs giving up the fewest points per game and causing turnovers.  Titles aren't won in September...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself : Much like the Pats, the Giants defense started poorly and improved as the season marched on, the Giant's defense was the best in the playoffs giving up the fewest points per game and causing turnovers.  Titles aren't won in September...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

         And your point is?? You're actually contradicting yourself, when you say that "much like the Pats...the Giants' "D" improved as the season wore on". Aren't you then admitting that the Pats' "D" wasn't nearly as bad as their stats reflect? 

         That being the case, why are you ranting against the "D" for losing the SB? As I've pointed out now on numerous occasions, if Tom Brady throws a better pass, or Wes Welker comes up with that late 4th quarter catch, are we even having this conversation? 

         Furthermore, without a healthy Gronk, it was much easier for the Giants to defense the Patriots' offense. For example, do you really think that LB Chase Blackmon would have been left on an island to cover Gronk, if Gronk was anywhere near at full speed?     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself :      And your point is?? You're actually contradicting yourself, when you say that "much like the Pats...the Giants' "D" improved as the season wore on". Aren't you then admitting that the Pats' "D" wasn't nearly as bad as their stats reflect?       That being the case, why are you ranting against the "D" for losing the SB? As I've pointed out now on numerous occasions, if Tom Brady throws a better pass, or Wes Welker comes up with that late 4th quarter catch, are we even having this conversation?       Furthermore, without a healthy Gronk, it was much easier for the Giants to defense the Patriots' offense. For example, do you really think that LB Chase Blackmon would have been left on an island to cover Gronk, if Gronk was anywhere near at full speed?     
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    I agree, the D played better than what the numbers indicates, the thing was that the ball didn't bounce our way in numerous occasions ( two fumbles, 1 negated by 12man OTF) that could of change the outcome of the game specially that fumble inside the giant's 20 ( I think) after Blackmon's INT. That wes drop though had a huge impact on the whole team, you could see how hopeless some of the defensive players looked ( Vw in particular) they felt like that was their only chance to win that game. They didn't look confident going back on the field against Eli, they knew the game was lost before they even got onto the field. I could be wrong, but that's the way it looked to me. The coaching staff and the player's execution was horrendous when the game was on the line, a couple of drops, not running the ball on that fateful 2 & 11 they could of have a more manageable 3rd down if they had gained a few more yards on the ground plus they would of milked that clock a bit more.

    All in all it was a team lost, there were alot of thing that the coaches could of done better and there were more plays where the players could of executed better. It wasn't meant to be, let's move on and stop blaming 1/3 of the team.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]BB will make sure his offense is water tight to compensate for any potential defensive weaknesses. The OL has an urgent need with Light, Mankins and the center position vulnerable in the short term. I fully expext BB to draft Konz with pick 27. Konz is NFL ready. Connley can then adequately fill as a starter or backup at multiple OL positions. This scenario assumes that Barron is gone prior to Pats pick. With Konz and Barron available, BB may actually trade up to get both. If not, pick 31 and 93 will be traded for a 2013 first and another second. Hoyer or Mallet will be traded for another second. The main reason BB will draft OL is that there is significant separation between Konz and other C/OL prospects, primarily Jones and Zeitler who can be drafted in mid to late second round. There IS NOT significant separation at DE, DT and CB. Value is in the second round. and given other team needs, many players projected as first round Pats picks will be available. 27 - Konz C 31 - TRADED with 93 (2013 first and 2012 mid-second round pick) Mid second round pick - best available - DE (Keyes, Curry, Branch?) Mid second Hoyer trade- best available CB (Jenkins, Dennard Hosley?) 48 - best available DT (Crick, Jones, Ta Amau?) 64 - best available OLB or S (McClellin, Smith, Johnson, Fleming?)
    Posted by elDunker2[/QUOTE]

         Dunker...so much for Konz being the Pats' pick at #27:
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/13/patriots-sign-dan-koppen-to-two-year-6-million-deal/

         Isn't it amazing how one signing can entirely change a mock draft?  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself :    That being the case, why are you ranting against the "D" for losing the SB? As I've pointed out now on numerous occasions, if Tom Brady throws a better pass, or Wes Welker comes up with that late 4th quarter catch, are we even having this conversation?       Furthermore, without a healthy Gronk, it was much easier for the Giants to defense the Patriots' offense. For example, do you really think that LB Chase Blackmon would have been left on an island to cover Gronk, if Gronk was anywhere near at full speed?     
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Where am I ranting against the defense? 

    Fact is I've been championing the defense the entire season. It doesn't mean I don't think the draft picks aren't better spent on defense, the offense doesn't need any help in the way of personnel, it only needs better play calling and maybe a couple late picks for depth. 

    This defense is called by the greatest defensive mind of this generation but it doesn't mean the rebuilding hasn't ended. I say spend this draft primarily on defense. 

    We lost a starting tackle/end in Warren, we lost the starting OLB in Andre Carter and the guy that replaced him (Anderson) to the Bills, not to mention we have no depth at all at safety...  

    Saying that we should spend this draft addressing offensive concerns... we don't have any?!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    Re: BB Draft History Will Repeat Itself

    Yup. You beat me to it. Back to the drawing board. But This is great news. Now we can get OL help in the 3rd or 4th round. Could BB trade both 1st round picks? If Barron, Perry, Upshaw, Bockers, and Mercilus are off the board, (with Coples, Poe, Kirpatrick and Cox, definitely gone) its possible!!! I don't see some of the other mock Pats picks as first round material, especially Reyes, Crick, Branch, Dennard, Still, Smith,Gilmore,McClellin - any of which would be nice mid second+ picks. And I don't see BB drafting Jenkins, Irvin or Hightower at all. But who knows...like you said things can change in an instant and BB is the least predictable drafter.
     
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