BB Fleeces the Vikings!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    Wasn't half the board complaining that we didn't have more picks in a deep draft?  Now we have more picks and a lot of guys people wanted are still on the board yet we shouldn't have traded.  Unbelievable.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to THTM's comment:

    The problem is if you read Profootball weekly you can draft better then Bill because he uses a short board.He does do a excellent job of getting those picks its the players he will not pick is the big problem .



    HUGE problem - so true. Best record in football over the last decade, and always in the hunt for SBs, but the man is just incompetent!

    And all these stupid team - they could cut their entire scouting department and hire PFW to do the work, or heck, just subscribe think of the savings! And of course every good player is completely 'plug and play' across all the systems run on offense and defense. So obviously if a team selects a player BB passed on and he succeeds, it is obvious he would have fit perfectly in the Pats system.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to THTM's comment:

    Well the other thing is Bill has put himself in control of the board and the Dowling,Brace,Chung could have been easily flipped for a first rounder next year.



    not sure it's that easy. Next years 1st round is much deeper so a late 2nd might be hard to flip for a 1st next year. You might be looking closer to a 2nd and mid round pick next year

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Wasn't half the board complaining that we didn't have more picks in a deep draft?  Now we have more picks and a lot of guys people wanted are still on the board yet we shouldn't have traded.  Unbelievable.



    I think it's more where they got the picks. If they got a top 42 pick out of it I think we'd all love it but the late 2nd and late 3rd gives pause. All those players on the board could be off before #52 which I think is the main concern. Did we trade a BMW M3 for 4 standard toyota corolla's? Or did we trade a 128i for a 69boss that needs some love?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Wasn't half the board complaining that we didn't have more picks in a deep draft?  Now we have more picks and a lot of guys people wanted are still on the board yet we shouldn't have traded.  Unbelievable.

     



    I think it's more where they got the picks. If they got a top 42 pick out of it I think we'd all love it but the late 2nd and late 3rd gives pause. All those players on the board could be off before #52 which I think is the main concern. Did we trade a BMW M3 for 4 standard toyota corolla's? Or did we trade a 128i for a 69boss that needs some love?

     



    These are fair points, but unless you are gonna say who YOU wouldve drafted @ 29 who is a sure thing, I dont see why you are complaining. Of course the picks coming back arent gonna be high cuz Minny was a decent team but as weve seen, BB doesnt care where he picks them. Im sure based on his board he has an idea who may be available for him to choose when the time comes. He isnt an idiot.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    PatsEng - interesting chart - one question on that data - how do they define 'bust'. There is a big difference between a player like Chung - (50 games played 30 starts over his 4 year rookie contract and not resigned by the Pats but signed by another team as a FA to a $3M contract) vs. a Butler who is cut after 2 years (of not insignificant production) but is still playing in the NFL, vs. Ron Brace who is still employed but (Washington) but never was healthy enough to produce meaningful stats or RasI who has never put up any stats in his two years.

    Hard to think Chung would actually be classed a bust except on this board - is he great (No) and did tha Pats move on (Yes), but as NFL players go I think he has a pretty typical career path so far.

    I am not being contentious on this just asking for clarification because I find the chart interesting. Just need to know what the expectation level is for any player in the data set.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    "Fleece".  

    Let me tell you about a fleece I pulled off.   I went to my local bank and got 4 $5's for a $20.  I can't believe it - there was an armed guard right there, witnessed the whole thing and did nothing.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Wasn't half the board complaining that we didn't have more picks in a deep draft?  Now we have more picks and a lot of guys people wanted are still on the board yet we shouldn't have traded.  Unbelievable.

     



    I think it's more where they got the picks. If they got a top 42 pick out of it I think we'd all love it but the late 2nd and late 3rd gives pause. All those players on the board could be off before #52 which I think is the main concern. Did we trade a BMW M3 for 4 standard toyota corolla's? Or did we trade a 128i for a 69boss that needs some love?

     

     



    These are fair points, but unless you are gonna say who YOU wouldve drafted @ 29 who is a sure thing, I dont see why you are complaining. Of course the picks coming back arent gonna be high cuz Minny was a decent team but as weve seen, BB doesnt care where he picks them. Im sure based on his board he has an idea who may be available for him to choose when the time comes. He isnt an idiot.

     



    in 09' I called Matthews. This year I'm saying Hunt. But, if Taylor, J. Williams, Hunt, Hunter, Woods, Jenkins, Hankins come off before #52 then I'll be disappointed. I think these guys are going to be players. If we grab one at #52 then I'd be pretty happy

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    PatsEng - interesting chart - one question on that data - how do they define 'bust'. There is a big difference between a player like Chung - (50 games played 30 starts over his 4 year rookie contract and not resigned by the Pats but signed by another team as a FA to a $3M contract) vs. a Butler who is cut after 2 years (of not insignificant production) but is still playing in the NFL, vs. Ron Brace who is still employed but (Washington) but never was healthy enough to produce meaningful stats or RasI who has never put up any stats in his two years.

    Hard to think Chung would actually be classed a bust except on this board - is he great (No) and did tha Pats move on (Yes), but as NFL players go I think he has a pretty typical career path so far.

    I am not being contentious on this just asking for clarification because I find the chart interesting. Just need to know what the expectation level is for any player in the data set.



    Truthfully I'm not sure, they got it from profootball reference so there is some statistics behind it. I'm guessing it's starter vs non starter over length of career. I actually like this breakdown better as it's slightly more defined

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    PatsEng - do you have a link to that spreadsheet - I can't read the one in the post.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:



    So, do you think Minnesota is banging down the door right now for a SB title? 

    So, yes, BB preyed on that and pretty much fleeced them. 4 picks for 1?

    The fact they picked Patterson just makes it worse for them.



    Classic red herring.

    It makes no difference what MN did with the pick.   I couldn't care less about MN.  So, 4 picks for 1 is always a fleece?  Even when the trade value chart shows it to be a wash?  Even when the trade increases risk for the Pats?

    Highly illogical.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     



    So, do you think Minnesota is banging down the door right now for a SB title? 

    So, yes, BB preyed on that and pretty much fleeced them. 4 picks for 1?

    The fact they picked Patterson just makes it worse for them.

     



    Classic red herring.

     

    It makes no difference what MN did with the pick.   I couldn't care less about MN.  So, 4 picks for 1 is always a fleece?  Even when the trade value chart shows it to be a wash?  Even when the trade increases risk for the Pats?

    Highly illogical.



    I agree with this, but not with the "increases risk for Pats".

    With very limited talent in this draft, a pretty healthy set of talent in rounds 2-4, and no consensus/can't lose pick at 29, why is spreading your risk out worse than picking at 29 for a marginal talent? I understand round 1 picks have a higher probability of success, but in a deep draft that looks horizontal talent wise, why wouldn't you do this? 

    For everyone that wanted us to pick at 29, I want to hear specifically who you would have chose. Patterson? no way, doesn't fit the Pats system and is a big risk. JWillaims, Hunt? Too early. BB knew this. Who else is can't miss and has a high degree of starting/impact? 

    What BB did isn't a fleece job because of the value chart...basically a wash. Why it was a good move is because round 1 talent after 20 or so is just about as good as what you can get through the 2nd round. So, if the talent is even after 20 why not trade down?

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    2 teams, both getting what they want is a good deal.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     



    So, do you think Minnesota is banging down the door right now for a SB title? 

    So, yes, BB preyed on that and pretty much fleeced them. 4 picks for 1?

    The fact they picked Patterson just makes it worse for them.

     



    Classic red herring.

     

    It makes no difference what MN did with the pick.   I couldn't care less about MN.  So, 4 picks for 1 is always a fleece?  Even when the trade value chart shows it to be a wash?  Even when the trade increases risk for the Pats?

    Highly illogical.

     



    I agree with this, but not with the "increases risk for Pats".

     

    With very limited talent in this draft, a pretty healthy set of talent in rounds 2-4, and no consensus/can't lose pick at 29, why is spreading your risk out worse than picking at 29 for a marginal talent? I understand round 1 picks have a higher probability of success, but in a deep draft that looks horizontal talent wise, why wouldn't you do this? 

    For everyone that wanted us to pick at 29, I want to hear specifically who you would have chose. Patterson? no way, doesn't fit the Pats system and is a big risk. JWillaims, Hunt? Too early. BB knew this. Who else is can't miss and has a high degree of starting/impact? 

    What BB did isn't a fleece job because of the value chart...basically a wash. Why it was a good move is because round 1 talent after 20 or so is just about as good as what you can get through the 2nd round. So, if the talent is even after 20 why not trade down?

     




     

    I gotta be honest with you. The value chart scale crap is so overrated it's not even funny.  Very simply, Patterson needs to be an ALl Pro WR in this league to justify tossing the rest of your draft like that.

    They have a 5th and a 6th left, correct?

    They completely destroy their ability to maneuver in the next 2 days of the draft, as well.

    Why would you want less picks as a team than needs them in a deep draft?

    You can run all the formulas you want, but the facts are the facts. Minny isn't knocking on that SB door quite yet. That's the issue, value charts or not.

    It's sort of like when Rex Ryan read Sanchez's QB Rating at the podium after the buttfumble. It was 94.  No one cares that he threw for 100 yards in garbage time to bounce his QBR to 94.

    It's just irrelevant up against the big picture.

     



    Russ...I don't care what Minny did with the pick or how it destroys their draft...that is on them now.

    What I do care about is what the Pats now do with those picks, and, if they can turn them into something more than what they would have drafted with 29. That is the big question on this board. Some agree they can, some don't, some / most are waiting to see. 

    One thing PatsEng pointed out that I think warrants additional discussion is where the picks reside that we got back from Minny. Bottom half of round 2 and 3. That seems like an awful long time to wait and hope someone falls to you. This is why I think the Pats will be drafting higher in round 2 in some form or fashion...be it another trade of say Mallett, or, packaging of picks to go get the #1 WR on their board. They simply can't wait until 52 to let a WR drop to them because I think we'll see some fly off the board top of round 2. My 2 cents.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: BB Fleeces the Vikings!

    rust I agree with you. whats funny is phatrex is just upset that our 7th round pick Alphonso Dennard is a much better player than Jets 1st rounder Kyle Wilson!!

     
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