BB Proves He's the Master!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]He always trades for "next year's draft" and we always think that next year we will load up.  Then he trade for next year's draft. I am underwhelmed with this year's effort.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    So was Bill. Or do you think there's some point in drafting players we don't need just because some ESPN expert puts them at the top of there list.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Ok - First Round - Pats 9 picks to Colts 7 (does not include 09).    Rob Morris - 6 year starter for colts including Superbowl.  Not special but effective.  Dallas Clark is superior to both of your tight ends picked combined.  (thats 2 for 1) Marlin Jackson was a projected probowler last year until injury.  Merriweather plays a different position and only started because Harrison went down.  No way Merriweather is better.  Won't say that he is worse.  Jury is out. Joseph Addai hands down has been better than Maroney, and these two are linked because of their mid-late round selection.  I can't find where warren was selected to the probowl.   That leaves Gonzalez, Freeney, and Wayne.  Freeney and Seymour have been equals for their team.  Wayne and Wilfork the same.  So Mankins and Gonzalez .  Both starters.  Mankins has a PB where Gonzalez does not, but Addai has one where Maroney does not.  I've got to say that with fewer picks we have equal effectiveness if not better in the first.  Second Round = Remember - My comments were about 1st round only.  And I was only talking draft.  Adding Welker to the list doesn't fit.  I already gave props to the pats for using picks for veteran trades and which the pats do much better than the colts, but that is not drafting.  So sticking to my arguement, welker is not included.   04-07 - pats nothing or busts per your statement.  Even a marginal colts player (per your statement) is better than nothing.  But - Ugoh vs. nothing - starter since rookie Jennings - started 12 games last year, so he is a better than marginal.  Hayden -   starter and better than average.  Sanders - NFL defensive player of the year.  Enough said. Regardless of any other players before them - 4 to 0 makes the colts second round significantly better than the pats.   Eugene Wilson vs. Mike Doss - both were about the same player 03-06.  Doss in 06 was injured and let go.  Still in the league and if not for injury might be starting.  That said - edge to NE for drafting a player who did not get hurt.  Larry Tripplet vs. Deon Branch - Clearly NE (although some on this site like to say Branch was only good as a pat - thus system player). Idrees Bashir vs. Matt Light - NE - no contest. Marcus Washington vs. Adrian Klemm - IN - no contest - Washington Probowler You Didn't list 08 - Mike Pollck (site wouldn't let me spell his name) vs.Terrance Wheatley - 13 starts vs. 1.  Colts are the clear winner.  Left out Bethel Johnson (2003- 2nd rd) - NE Bust I'd say the colts picks were better in the first and second.  I did not intend to have you further solidify my arguement, but thank you.  
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Let us know when those picks translate into Super Bowl Rings
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I agree. Addai is a pro-bowler only because he plays for Indy. He is a solid runner, but not an All-Pro. Light, Warren, Sanders, Wayne, Wilfork, Seymour and Freeney all earned it.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I could not find warren as a pro bowler.  could be wrong.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Let us know when those picks translate into Super Bowl Rings
    Posted by Evil2009[/QUOTE]

    Time to stop living in the past evil.  The last ring you had was 4 years ago.  That is an entire college career (well maybe not for you).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    By the way - You went to Belichick's first year. 

    I'd like to go to Polian's first year (you can add the 2 years prior) -

    1998 - Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
    1999 - Edgerrin James vs. Ricky Williams

    First - these were both high pressure top 5 picks with 1/2 the media saying leaf and 100% of the media saying williams.  Polian got both of them right. 

    In addition - he let Harbaugh go (captain comeback) to allow Manning to start AND let Marshall Faulk go who was still in his prime, because the colts could not afford his future expected salary. 

    Any questions about these 2?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Is it my imagination or has the list of words you are not allowed to type grown exponentially since they reopened this forum?
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]

    your imagination.  Would you like me to elaborate?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I agree. Addai is a pro-bowler only because he plays for Indy. He is a solid runner, but not an All-Pro. Light, Warren, Sanders, Wayne, Wilfork, Seymour and Freeney all earned it.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Look - we can argue all day about who does and does not deserve a probowl selection, but that is a worthless effort.  I could say Light didn't deserve his selection and you would argue he did.  Where does that get us.  Nowhere.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Underdog you lost when you said the picking of Gonzalez was as good as picking Mankins. Mankins is going to be a very good lineman for years to come. Gonzalez is a solid 3rd reciever.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    I think people are looking at this draft as lesser than a success because for weeks and weeks we've been hearing rushing LBs is #1 need.

    If instead of Brace we would have picked barwin would that make this a better draft?  I don't think so, as much as I would have loved to end up with Barwin we addressed needs.

    After this season we could have no DL left, he addressed that need right now.  VW will probably not be back and it allows some room to see if we can keep RS.  Got a good LB in the 3rd, he can play ILB or OLB and has coverage skills.  I think he could eventually be TB replacement.  I think this is at least a B+ if next year's draft is talent heavy in the second round I'll call this draft a A++
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Wow. That was the single most biased bunch of muck I have ever seen from you.

    You basically just filled out a bunch of mediocre guys and a few hits with lies.

    Marlin Jackson and Rob Morris are both BIG  FAT BUSTS. Meriweather had more INTs last season than Jackson has had in his CAREER! Projected pro-bowler? Right. Morris was a four year starter and got bounced because he is awful.

    Don't lie. It makes you look slanted. Between 2000, 2005,6,7 (his superbowl year LMAO) he has seven starts. That is not a six year starter. That is a guy who got jettisoned right when the Colts defense improved. BUST.

    Sorry. Two first rounders. Not one pro-bowl. Jackson by year four has three picks. Ellis Hobbs had three picks last season.

    Ok Asante Samuel fourth rounder. Had more picks in one season than Hayden and Jennings *combined*. I would take Hobbs and Samuel over Jennings and Hayden any time any where. You are talking about two players that wouldn't start on any team besides the Colts.

    But don't take my word for it. How about Scouts Inc?

    Jackson -69 rated 32nd best in football
    Hayden -- 65
    Jennings -- 59

    Samuel -- 85 rated 8th best in football
    Hobbs -- 69 32nd best
    Randal Gay -- 69 32nd best

    So Ne can find a better corner as a rookie free agent than Indy can in the first round. Yeah. I want the Colts picking my defense.

    Especially when players like Morris don't even get ranked. Unranked. Not even worth scouting.

    Ok. So out of one first and two seconds. According to scouts the Colts have grabbed two guys who aren't even worth starting, and one guy who is borderline that you call a "projected probowler."

    And Clark is better than Graham and Watson combined? Sorry no thanks. I wouldn't make that trade. Watson hasn't gotten as many reps as Clark has, but the bottom line is that NE doesn't have a total slug like Gonzalez sitting at WR. And Daniel Graham (who makes a ton of money to do what he does) is the perfect TE. I wish NE could have affored to keep him. He is an absolute wrecking ball of a combo TE. A carbon copy of that guy just arrived at #20 this year. I know it is hard for you to understand but not everyone wants H-Backs like Clark. Some teams like a kid who can pancake a linebacker and make a tough catch over the middle, and they pay a premium. Graham was worth every single penny and a first round pick.

    Scouts INC has Clark as the seventh best TE, Watson tied at 12th and Graham at 13th. None of them has made a pro-bowl, all three could start on the majority of NFL teams. So you are essentially offering me two starters for one starter. Use your head dude.

    If you offered me Gonzalez (who will soon be a bust if he doesn't put up some serious numbers) and Addai for Mankins I would laugh. . .  out loud. One is an elite guard. The other two are a platoon runner and a third WR. Sorry dude. That is laughable. First round WR's need to get more than 500 yards a season. That is just a fact.

    Addai is ranked 13th among RB's Maroney is ranked 17th. If Addai is so good, then why did Indy draft another RB this season??? Quick hint. He is over-rated and only made the probowl because of his Laundry.

    He was picked over Jamal Lewis on a year when Lewis was twice as effective. But hey he was a Cleveland Brown and Addai is a Colt.

    Gonzalez isn't even starting ranked. He is in the middle cluster ranked at 36th with a group of illustrious players that include Javon Walker, Ronald Curry and a couple guys from the Eagles woeful crew. So seeing as how you want to group these kids together to try and slant things, Mankins is rated as the second best Guard in all of football. OK. Thanks for making my point. Mankins himself is worth more than Addai and Gonzalez put together.

    And as far as building Ugoh up. He is ranked out at 73. Like the other guard they picked up in the second last season who the jury is out on. Nikc Kazcur is the worst lineman in NE. He is ranked 70. Ne got a pro-bowl center in Koppen in the fifth round. And the only pro-bowler on Indy's line is Saturday who was drafted by the Ravens and signed later by the Colts, so per your arguement he doesn't count. Right? Ok, So the best center in football. The second best guard in football. And a top-ten tackle. Versus Ugoh, a guy who is in the middle of the pack?

    So lets see. NE 4th round corners better than Indy first round corners. Check. Ne fifth round OL, better than Indy's first round OL. Got it.

    And Indy is superior how????

    In BB's time NE has drafted nine probowlers. Over the same span, despite taking more selections, and more high selections, and even including the gift pro-bowl to Addai (who per your usual rants is over-rated and per the Colt's mandate needs to be replaced by yet another 1st round RB) Indy has drafted six. And Ne has one DROY in that time span.

    That is . . just for accuracy sake.

    Brady (6th), Ghostowski (4th), Light(2nd), Koppen(5th), Mankins(1st), Wilfork (1st), Seymour (1st), Warren(1st), Samuel (4th).

    And Jerod Mayo (DROY 1st)

    Versus.

    Addai (cough 1st), Freeney (1st), Wayne (1st), Sanders (2nd), Washington (2nd), Mathis (5th), June (5th).

    Like I said. If you confine it to round one and two it is close. They appear neck and neck. With both teams drafting five pro-bowlers, but Ne having ahigher first round hit rate and Indy having a higher second round hit rate. But extend this out and it is clear that Ne has been the better drafting team under BB's tenure.

    Ne has drafted more pro-bowlers in the first. And pro-bowlers in every round all the way down to the sixth.


    Ok, so leaving personell decisions aside, like acquiring Welker, Vrabel, Harrison, Moss, and Dillon, all of whom were acquired for peanuts. And the fact that Ne leads the NFL in trading up into the next season for picks since BB arrived, routinely converting selections into higher ones the next year, which you very conveniently leave out, but I won't because three 2nds next season will be awesome.

    Ne is superior at scouting talent through the draft since BB arrived. By any measure aside from passing off players like Marlin Jackson and Rob Morris as anything but first round busts. Top to bottom they have drafted more pro-bowlers than Indy, and as many average starters as Indy.

    Like I said. Edge to NE. Thanks for giving me the chance to take shots at failed first rounders like Jackson, Gonzalez and Morris. Really three wasted picks. Most of those picks on other teams would have been moved for a better player. But Indy is constantly up against the cap because they give their five or six good players ridiculous contracts that hamstring them, and keep them from having any depth whatsoever.

    If you take off your Colts goggles and look at it like Scouts do.  The Colts thrive on having two or three stars on each side of the ball. The rest of those guys are  merely marginal players. But just like Scouts Inc notes with its rankings, just because these guys "start" for Indy doesn't mean they are solid picks all around. Because most of them wouldn't be number ones on other teams.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Bojoe - I did not say gonzalez was as good as mankins.  I just had to pair them together, based on the others I paired.  I said Mankins got a Probowl and Gonzalez did not. 

    Gonzalez as you said is a solid third.  But what else can you be with Harrison, Wayne and Clark and Addai out of the backfield?  Thats 3 probowlers and one who only God knows why he hasn't been selected (Clark). 

    This year we will find out if Gonzalez has what it takes.  But Mankin's wins the comparison.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Hey Z tell us how you really feel about it!

    You are 100% correct.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Look - we can argue all day about who does and does not deserve a probowl selection, but that is a worthless effort.  I could say Light didn't deserve his selection and you would argue he did.  Where does that get us.  Nowhere.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I argue because everytime you come to this forum complaining about how Manning has no running game and Addai is over-rated I mark it in a book.

    And I am usually the one who says that Addai is the quality back that you keep cr@pping on.

    So what is it going to be? Addai the pro-bowler? Or Addai the over-rated sack who Manning drags along and hurts the team?

    Addai the guy who got Indy 8 yards in the clutch when Manning couldn't convert last season? Or Addai who let his team down while Manning valiently struggled?

    Addai who platooned with Rhodes to carry Indy to a Superbowl with an average per game of 160+ yards between the pair while Manning chucked a modern record 7 picks in the post-season? Or Addai who was just a role player on that squad while Manning was vindicated after years of being a terrible playoff QB?

    Quickly now.

    You have made Addai the heel so often on this forum to make your silly points about Manning, and it is craven and disingenuous to come here arguing that he is some kind of great selection.

    Light earned that pro-bowl after years of being one of the best LT's in the game of football. I was shocked it took him so long to get in because over his career he has consistently been one of the best. He is getting older now, so I am glad he got when he was young.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]By the way - You went to Belichick's first year.  I'd like to go to Polian's first year (you can add the 2 years prior) - 1998 - Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf 1999 - Edgerrin James vs. Ricky Williams First - these were both high pressure top 5 picks with 1/2 the media saying leaf and 100% of the media saying williams.  Polian got both of them right.  In addition - he let Harbaugh go (captain comeback) to allow Manning to start AND let Marshall Faulk go who was still in his prime, because the colts could not afford his future expected salary.  Any questions about these 2?
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]


    Ok. So lets go back then. If you give Polian a two year head start he draws even in pro-bowl draftees, in two seasons where he had the first overall and the fourth overall he managed two pro-bowlers. That brings him to a dead heat with BB in two more seasons.

    Point taken.

    But do I get to count BUST Jerome Pathon as well??

    And for that matter lets revise. Considering that player like Morris get to be contributors, then Adrian Klemm isn't a bust right? He won three superbowls. Was a starter, and a key piece of depth.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Wow. It is so funny that Gonzalez gets three seasons to produce, but Terrell Wheatley is a bust after missing most of his rookie year with an injury.

    It is almost as disturbing as calling Mariquise Hill a failure because he died and never got his chance to play.

    If you can't see how you are biased here I can't help you.

    Last year's picks, Mayo aside being commended as a DROY and nothing more, can't be weighed in on.

    Wheatley could never play again in his career, or be a decorated pro-bowler. And same for the guard who started 11 games in Indy. We don't know, so leave them out of it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]NE played this draft extremely well, IMO. #23 for Butler (who half the mocks had them taking at #23) and Brandon Tate, who most mocks had going in the second AND a second rounder next season. That is a score. On every account. Rating a draft, however, comes years later.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Z - you are obstinate and you prove it time and again. 



    Jackson - potential probowler - yep - heard it on sirius nfl radio prior to the 08 season.  bust - not even close. 

    Pardon my math on Rob Morris, but I don't see how you can call a 5 year starter a bust, but hey its your mind. 

    Ellis Hobbs was so good that the pats traded him for 2 5th round picks. 

    As for the colts drafting - it doesn't matter whether it is d or o.  They were still better.

    Addai was hurt all year last year which is why they drafted an RB, but hey he still played.  How about Maroney.  And your telling me that he got a probowl pick because of who was around him??  Well what was the great maroney's problem in 07 when the pats o was all world.  by the way, did you happen to notice that all of your great pats o line got their probowl credentials only in the year the o went all world.  What a difference a couple of receivers make, huh.  And by the way, do you know who light backed up in the probowl in 07 - Tarik Glenn.  LOL!!!

    What is this scouts inc ranking and why does it matter?  You didn't use it to make your first arguement but now you are?  And who knows if these guys aren't east coast biased like most of the writers?  More on your o-line.  They are good.  the colts line is very young now.  It will take some time with them.  But if you have the best (ACCORDING TO SCOUTS INC) , how come none of these guys made the probowl this year?  Aren't they in their prime?  East coast bias.    

    Ok - so now we take this further. 

    I am going to start with the polian years. 

    98 -
    Peyton manning
    r2 - steve mckinney - still in league
    99 -
    Edgerrin James
    r2 - mike peterson
    r7 - hunter smith
    2001 -
    4th - Ryan Diem
    2002 -
    4th - David Thornton
    2003 -
    4th - Robert Mathis - probowler
    6th - Cato June - probowler
    2004 -
    4th - Jason David
    5th - Jake Scott

    2005
    5th - Tyjuan Hagler
    2006 -
    3rd - Freddie Keiaho
    6th - Charlie Johnson
    6th - Antoine Bethea - probowler
    2007 -
    4th - Clint Sessions

    Others - 
    Gary Brackett - UDFA
    Raheem Brock - 7th rd for another team cut before camp - picked up by colts
    Melvin Bullitt - UDFA
    Jeff Saturday - UDFA by Baltimore - cut before camp - picked up by colts -probowler.

    Alright so DUDE - lets get this straight
    1.  I still can't find what year Warren went to the probowl.  So that is 8. 
    2.  During the belichick years, you forgot to list:  Robert Mathis, Cato June, and Antoine Bethea as probowlers - which takes that number up to 8. 

    If I add Saturday who was undrafted - picked up by Baltimore as an UDFA and cut 6 weeks later - 2 months before training camp -  thats 9 colts probowlers to the pats 8.  and none of mine are kickers. 

    SO DUDE! - I THINK I GOT YA. 

    Here is what I know - my goggles are a lot clearer than yours.

    Of the colts current roster.  I count only 7 players that played a game for another team.  According to ESPN's depth chart 5 or 6 of them are 3rd stringers.  This is the colts history.  They find their players and keep them. 

    Never said the pats were bad at drafting, but I believe the colts are better.  Pats are better at using picks to sign vets.  All in all I'd say the pats overall personnel decisions have to be the best in the league because of what they do with vet players. 

    But - pure drafting, I go with the colts.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fargo. Show Fargo's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Z - you are obstinate and you prove it time and again.  Jackson - potential probowler - yep - heard it on sirius nfl radio prior to the 08 season.  bust - not even close.  Pardon my math on Rob Morris, but I don't see how you can call a 5 year starter a bust, but hey its your mind.  Ellis Hobbs was so good that the pats traded him for 2 5th round picks.  As for the colts drafting - it doesn't matter whether it is d or o.  They were still better. Addai was hurt all year last year which is why they drafted an RB, but hey he still played.  How about Maroney.  And your telling me that he got a probowl pick because of who was around him??  Well what was the great maroney's problem in 07 when the pats o was all world.  by the way, did you happen to notice that all of your great pats o line got their probowl credentials only in the year the o went all world.  What a difference a couple of receivers make, huh.  And by the way, do you know who light backed up in the probowl in 07 - Tarik Glenn.  LOL!!! What is this scouts inc ranking and why does it matter?  You didn't use it to make your first arguement but now you are?  And who knows if these guys aren't east coast biased like most of the writers?  More on your o-line.  They are good.  the colts line is very young now.  It will take some time with them.  But if you have the best (ACCORDING TO SCOUTS INC) , how come none of these guys made the probowl this year?  Aren't they in their prime?  East coast bias.     Ok - so now we take this further.  I am going to start with the polian years.  98 - Peyton manning r2 - steve mckinney - still in league 99 - Edgerrin James r2 - mike peterson r7 - hunter smith 2001 - 4th - Ryan Diem 2002 - 4th - David Thornton 2003 - 4th - Robert Mathis - probowler 6th - Cato June - probowler 2004 - 4th - Jason David 5th - Jake Scott 2005 5th - Tyjuan Hagler 2006 - 3rd - Freddie Keiaho 6th - Charlie Johnson 6th - Antoine Bethea - probowler 2007 - 4th - Clint Sessions Others -  Gary Brackett - UDFA Raheem Brock - 7th rd for another team cut before camp - picked up by colts Melvin Bullitt - UDFA Jeff Saturday - UDFA by Baltimore - cut before camp - picked up by colts -probowler. Alright so DUDE - lets get this straight 1.  I still can't find what year Warren went to the probowl.  So that is 8.  2.  During the belichick years, you forgot to list:  Robert Mathis, Cato June, and Antoine Bethea as probowlers - which takes that number up to 8.  If I add Saturday who was undrafted - picked up by Baltimore as an UDFA and cut 6 weeks later - 2 months before training camp -  thats 9 colts probowlers to the pats 8.  and none of mine are kickers.  SO DUDE! - I THINK I GOT YA.  Here is what I know - my goggles are a lot clearer than yours. Of the colts current roster.  I count only 7 players that played a game for another team.  According to ESPN's depth chart 5 or 6 of them are 3rd stringers.  This is the colts history.  They find their players and keep them.  Never said the pats were bad at drafting, but I believe the colts are better.  Pats are better at using picks to sign vets.  All in all I'd say the pats overall personnel decisions have to be the best in the league because of what they do with vet players.  But - pure drafting, I go with the colts.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]


    Pure drafting, I agree. Colts are better.  Winning Super Bowls?  I think I'd have to go with the Patriots.  


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I argue because everytime you come to this forum complaining about how Manning has no running game and Addai is over-rated I mark it in a book. And I am usually the one who says that Addai is the quality back that you keep cr@pping on. So what is it going to be? Addai the pro-bowler? Or Addai the over-rated sack who Manning drags along and hurts the team? Addai the guy who got Indy 8 yards in the clutch when Manning couldn't convert last season? Or Addai who let his team down while Manning valiently struggled? Addai who platooned with Rhodes to carry Indy to a Superbowl with an average per game of 160+ yards between the pair while Manning chucked a modern record 7 picks in the post-season? Or Addai who was just a role player on that squad while Manning was vindicated after years of being a terrible playoff QB? Quickly now. You have made Addai the heel so often on this forum to make your silly points about Manning, and it is craven and disingenuous to come here arguing that he is some kind of great selection. Light earned that pro-bowl after years of being one of the best LT's in the game of football. I was shocked it took him so long to get in because over his career he has consistently been one of the best. He is getting older now, so I am glad he got when he was young.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    ok scorekeeper (boy you take this board seriously)

    What I think of Addai does not matter in terms of pro bowl selection.  You used that criteria and thus it makes him significantly better than maroney.  Do I wish Addai could be better, yes - and last year is proof.  Who really knows how hurt he was.  All I know is that he wasn't as effective as 06.  Some of this could be due the line injuries and changes, but he needed to be more.  He is not an awful back.  I just want more.  manning did not have an effective running game last year along with substantial o line injuries, and a 3/4 marvin harrison which is why he deserved mvp.  

    But if you want to apply my comments about Addai's game last year to his 2006 year then who is really being disingenuous.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Wow. It is so funny that Gonzalez gets three seasons to produce, but Terrell Wheatley is a bust after missing most of his rookie year with an injury. It is almost as disturbing as calling Mariquise Hill a failure because he died and never got his chance to play. If you can't see how you are biased here I can't help you. Last year's picks, Mayo aside being commended as a DROY and nothing more, can't be weighed in on. Wheatley could never play again in his career, or be a decorated pro-bowler. And same for the guard who started 11 games in Indy. We don't know, so leave them out of it.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I didn't call wheatley a bust.  I just said the colts pick was better by virtue of a player playing vs. one that was not.  For recent picks the jury is still out.  Stop putting words in my mouth. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Pure drafting, I agree. Colts are better.  Winning Super Bowls?  I think I'd have to go with the Patriots.  
    Posted by Fargo[/QUOTE]

    I can't dispute that.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    You haven't gotten anything.

    Sorry, but if you want to change the rules to include discards from other teams then fine. 

    Mike Vrabel, Harrison, etc. They were all discards from other teams that NE moved on. Same deal as Saturday. So we are at square one again.

    Was Saturday drafted? No. Was acquired as a RFA by the Colts? No. Was he paid by another team before being a Colt? Yes. Was he dismissed? Yes. Same for Vrabel and Harrison. All three are great personell decisions, but none has anything to do with the draft. Sorry. 

    Saturday was a Free agent that Baltimore looked at first. There is no guarantee of anything beyond that. The Colts tried him out months later after he was cut. They obviously didn't place a priority on him. But saw something. But he was not drafted. And was not a rookie free agent taken by the colts.

    So if you want top start counting bargain free agents and other things. Let's go. Because BB has put as many of them into the pro-bowl as the Colts have first rounders in that time period.

    Changing the rules doesn't make you right. It just makes you shifty.

    Also, it is slightly ironic that you praise the Colts for bailing on Harbaugh and Faulk, but knock the Pats for drafting a pro-bowl kicker? I won't bother explaining the relevance, but as servicable as Vinatieri has been at his epic salary, the Ghost has been better. The better drafting team would take a kicker who is great.  Over that time span the Ghost had been more accurate and more prolific in scoring, and he costs a fraction. When was the last time Polian drafted a kicker?

    And second, what Polian did BEFORE BB was a coach/GM is irrelevant. If we count that he has been drafting busts and probowlers for decades, and Polian becomes something larger than the Colts by far.

    BB's first shot as GM and decision maker was in 2000 with NE. Thus we can't compare him to what Polian, or Shannahan, or Cowher, Bill Walsh or anyone else did before then. The point is that since he has called the shots, no one in the NFL has run a better draft. IMO, other teams are close. But at first blush I would say Pitttsburgh has been better than Indy even, with Indy in third.

    This is about now. During his tenure. No one has been better. Period.

    The title of the thread is that BB is the master of the draft. So discounting the two top five picks Polian got in his first two seasons, and your unseemly attempt to inlcude Saturday while blocking me from including other cast-offs like Vrabel, that is still six to eight minus Warren who I thought was an alternate in 2006. But you are right, apparently he was not.

    So it is still 7 to 8 BB vs Polian in that span. Sorry. If you count Saturday I count Vrabel and Harrison who were cast-offs that were told they were done. And for that matter I include ANY usage of a draft pick to include trading for vets, which is still talent speculation involving a pick. And then it isn't even remotely close.

    And sorry there slick willy, I am not going to let you slide everyone in, and quote things about players coming from "sirius radio". I don't care what you "say" you heard on Sirius. Marlin Jackson has never even been close to the pro-bowl and is a marginal starter at best.

    Here is Marlin Jackson's career:
    52 starts 12 PD 3 INTs 0.5 sacks zero 2 FF

    Here is Meriweather in 11 games last season:

    11 starts 9 PD 4 INTs 2 sacks 2 FF

    If you are being honest here, it isn't even close. Jackson is a bust. In in nearly five times as many games he is worse in just about every category. It isn't even close enough to talk away with schemes or anything else. If Ne drafted him I would be honest and call it a bust. Straight up. Injuries in 2008 don't explain how he is simply not productive.

    And here is where it is really going to hurt. Here is Hobbs last season:

    16 starts 11 PD 3 INT 1.5 sacks 0 FF

    And here is Tim Jennings your so called non-bust.
    38 starts 10 PD 2 INTs  0 sacks 3 FF

    And here is the heavy hitter of the bunch Hayden
    57 games 24 PD 6 INT 0 sacks 3 FF
    For an average season of:
    6 PD 1.5 INTs 0 sacks an .75 FF.

    Another player who isn't very good, and has less a track record than Hobbs who you seem content to dismiss. The fact is that not one of these players are anything more than average corner backs. The only star I have mentioned is Meriweather (or at least the only one who has a season with star like numbers).

    And for some more fun, because you think Sanders is such a no brainer and think  Jackson is somehow better than Meriweather because Sirius Radio told you so.

    Here is Sanders in the last season where he (kind of) wasn't a broken shell of a player:

    14 games 6 PD 3.5 sacks 2 INT 0 FF 96 tckls

    and Meriweather again

    11 games 9 PD 2 sacks 4 INT 2 FF 83 tckls

    So if you don't think Meriweather is a quality player, which you imtimated earlier, you need to dig deep because he is as good as anyone in the Colts defensive backfield, and better than any of their corners. Jackson isn't in the same league even if you extend his numbers into 2008.

    Again both Hobbs and Meriweather, in one season, better his career numbers. Jennings wouldn't even make the Patriot's practice squad.

    So if you like Jackson, you should go blog about how Indy should grab Hobbs. Oh yeah, he could also improve that 29th ranked KR game, because he was the second best among KR's in the NFL last season and is a perrenial star in that matter.

    These players you just bagged on are better than any corner Polian has every drafted. Hobbs was released because NE maintains the kind of salary flexibility to do that. They improved. If Indy could, they would bail on Jackson, Jennings and the rest in a second, because they are at best average players.

    Honestly, what does it say about your argument that NE trades a player who puts up better yearly numbers than any corner in Indy for two fifth rounders? It says that Jackson and the rest are not very good. And none of them would be worth more than a sixth rounder -- at least Hobbs can return kicks.

    And really if you are content with that production from a first rounder, or from Rob Morris then once again I can only chalk it up to low standards.

    He doesn't even play anymore and started 4!!!!! seasons. Not six. And not five. I correct myself when I made a mistake, please do the same. This is a guy who the Colts released in 2006 opting out and no one else wanted him. I am sorry, but Indy has a habit of making due with bad picks instead of cutting them. He, Jackson, Jennings are all examples. And it is a by-product of the fact that Polian is a marginal cap manager.

    For a first rounder that is a bust if Watson and Graham are. That was my only point.

    Indy has one bust in Jackson. Sorry. That is what it is. He is a borderline player. He wouldn't start on most teams. NE has no busts among the group. And they have one more pro-bowler. That is better in the first.

    And they are better overall. Once again, the fact that Indy has no space to improve these spots, doesn't mean they are master drafters. It only means they are shoddy salary cap managers. The virtue of starting for Indy doesn't make Marlin Jackson a quality starter. He isn't. Sorry. If he were a 3rd rounder it would make sense and he wouldn't be a bust. If he were a second rounder he would be a disappointment. But as a first, to get so marginal a player is a bust. Every other player of that group has  performed up to league standards, so I won't categorize them as busts. Except for Morris who started for a few years but then became a backup. That is a bust. Do you want a backup for a first rounder? I don't.
     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]ok scorekeeper (boy you take this board seriously) What I think of Addai does not matter in terms of pro bowl selection.  You used that criteria and thus it makes him significantly better than maroney.  Do I wish Addai could be better, yes - and last year is proof.  Who really knows how hurt he was.  All I know is that he wasn't as effective as 06.  Some of this could be due the line injuries and changes, but he needed to be more.  He is not an awful back.  I just want more.  manning did not have an effective running game last year along with substantial o line injuries, and a 3/4 marvin harrison which is why he deserved mvp.   But if you want to apply my comments about Addai's game last year to his 2006 year then who is really being disingenuous.   
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Look up disingenuous please. That wasn't disingenuous. That was holding you to a standard instead of letting slip around making cases when they suit you.

    So bottom line question. You already said you wish he could be better. Does that make it a good selection? Or does that make it a selection worth taking over?
     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I didn't call wheatley a bust.  I just said the colts pick was better by virtue of a player playing vs. one that was not.  For recent picks the jury is still out.  Stop putting words in my mouth. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    If the jury is still out, then please be honest the first time like I was and say the jury is still out.

    I am not judging 2008 draft picks. So let's not.

    But in all honesty, with Mayo and Wheatley (who was solid before his injury) versus Pollock and the pick Indy traded away for Ugoh (who is technically a first, because that is what it cost them to get him) and Pollock. Who do you think is going to go down as having the better draft?

    Be honest! We already have one star and a kid who will be developing for a few seasons, verus a guard (who you claim) wasn't good enough to pass protect or plow holes for your two good picks Manning and Addai. So once again, you are selectively applying standards my friend.

    Wheatley earned his first start in week nine after playing solid in spots. He had a great game with two PD's in one and half quarters against your Colts before breaking his wrist tackling someone.

    He likely would have started for the rest of the season, because the next player on the dpeth chart had to step up. I have already seen enough of the kid to know that he hs a future in the NFL if he can stay healthy.

    So please stop trying to chock up wins wherever you can. Wait a little to judge these guys. CB and OG are very, very different.

    And between Ugoh and Gonzalez I would take Meriweather every single time. You could offer me both of them and I would laugh it off.

    Right now Meriweather looks like a pro-bowler and those two look like more average starters that Indy will press into duty because they don't have the space to fix the problem.
     
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