Re: BB Proves He's the Master!
posted at 4/28/2009 9:25 PM EDT
So you are basically asking me to spot Polian a 1st and 4th overall? And we have already been through this.
If I were asking you to spot me two of BB's selections, just knock two seasons off of the Colts, like take away Freeney and whoever was picked after him, you would say "no fair your guy gets two extra seasons to draft."
And at that matter it isn't just two picks it is actually 14 picks which is the grand total. So Polian given two extra years with two extra selections.
Sorry dude. That isn't fair at all. No matter how you slice it.
That would be like me saying we should count all of the teams BB scouted for and then digging all the way back to replace that number one with say the number two he scouted out in 1980's. You might know his name Lawrence Taylor? OK, so that still spot Polian a year-- but then Bill wins. So I know you wouldn't like that one.
L.T. who BB actually scouted out as linebackers coach (and Carl Banks and Pepper Johnson) has almost as many accolades as Manning and James put together.
And like Tom Brady he will probably go down as the best player who ever played his spot.
Would that be fair? No.But the truth is that Polian doesn't even evaluate this talent.
He pays other people to evaluate talent. He isn't on the ground at colleges, visiting programs like BB is to watch players work out. The fact is that BB has a much, much larger hand in who is and isn't drafted.
All Polian does is get a list from his scouts and then he takes the best player on that list and signs them to a contract.
BB builds that list for himself.
In short, if you are talking about evaluating talent, there is no phase ever where Polian can touch that, unless you are counting up organizational hirees.
As "a football guy" I *know* that. That is how it works. Polian doesn't evaluate talent. Someone else on the Colts does that he hires -- probably a combination of HC and scouts and position coaches who have shifted spots.
BB puts together his own board. AS a football guy I know Polian does not. He signs the contracts and makes the personell decisions. He doesn't actually draft.
Or to quote Polian himself:“It's their operation of our system that makes it go,” Polian said. “They're the experts on the system. They're the ultimate expert. In the end, you're always going to listen to them in terms of what a player is and what he isn't.”http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7&news_id=ee0715c3-81a7-4344-8e97-9a5bd0fc64c7
And furthermore, I would question Polian's whole drafting strategy through his whole career that slants comparisons artificially in his favor. Polian peripheral position players. They are his greatest scores historically. Manning. Thurman Thomas. Andre Reed. Etc. But for some reason the teams he builds have always had trouble putting together championships but have always put up crazy stats and had boku pro-bowls, but not much in terms of results. In short, he is overrated as a drafter. His strategy is weak.
Case in point is this season. Here you are complaining about a big DT and other Colts fans I know complaining about an OT. What did he do with his first pick? He pased on two elite DTs in Ron Brace and Evander Hood to draft another running back who probably shouldn't have been drafted that high (time will tell).
And I am sure in a couple years Brown might have a probowl or some good numbers, but he hasn't addressed the actual problem. And if Indy has problems with O-line depth or D-line talent, you can blame his drafting strategy. In short, I absolutely will not spot Polian years based on the fact that BB was doing something else. It is just not apropo to the question at hand.
You said Colts picks versus Pats picks toe to toe, but you want to spot Polian extra seasons with two to five selections. Sorry. That isn't fair. That isn't toe-to-toe. And please don't EVER take shots at BB's record saying things like, it took him so long to get a job.
This guy has got 5 rings as a coach to Polian's one as a GM. And head to head in the playoffs BB teams are 3-1 against Polian teams. When Polian was "building" the Bills, BB was beating the Bills.
Sorry. Not that it has anythingto do with the original thread, and it was just you taking another shot for no reason. But, it isn't even a competition between the two in that department, or in the general football mind competition.
So your basic and only point is that if you give Polian an extra #1 and an extra #4 to use, trade, do whatever with, he gets two great players. OK. That is a fair assessment. Guess what, give BB two extra top five selections and he would probably do the same. Most top five selections become great players. That is why they are top five.
I don't take that away from Polian. I already said he has a great track record. He is up there with some all timers like Shula, Landry great guys who put together great teams.
But if you take a baseball analogy here, you don't say a hitter who has more homeruns because he has played longer is better than a hitter who is ripping them out of the park at a better rate than him but has two less years is a better hitter. He has just played longer. And more importantly that first hitter spent his first two years hitting in Coors field.
No one would take that argument serisouly. They would laugh it off.
But pitting one to one doesn't mean a thing if you are pitting 2-1, which is what you are trying to do.
You said year to year, I can only go year to year in that time span. The bottom line is that in BB's tenure, only one man has drafted better and it isn't Bill Polian.
Polian can get the old-timers award. But I don't think he is a better drafter than Bill. BB has taken the NFL by storm. On the field. In the draft room. And in the GM chair.
Sorry. There is no way you can convince me of that short of my missing some major statistic that shows that he has. If I am choosing one guy from the two to go into a draft with it is Bill Belichik. I believe during his tenure that has proven itself out.
I don't take an exec who signs checks and hires scouts. Sorry.
And that said I am done. I would rather spend time with my girlfriend watching the Red Sox than entertaining yet another of your exhausting arguments of why the Colts are better than the Pats. Orwhy Manning is better than everyone. Or why Dungy is morally superior. Or whatever your most recent fix is. Feel free to have the last word. I am not going to bother reading the thread. See you later.