BB the GM poll.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    I doubt NE uses Dunn much again.



    He's a player agent.  Teams don't use him.  Players do.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

      What is the last book you read? LOL  

     


    A Laz post.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Let's see...  drafted Tom Brady; arguably the best QB of all time, if he wins another ring, the undisputed.  Richard Seymour; 3x champion, 5x All Pro, 7x Pro Bowler, maybe the best DT of his generation and Super Bowl champ as a starting rookie defensive tackle.  Matt Light, Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green, David Givens, Dan Koppen, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson...  Vince Wilfork; Super Bowl Champion, 5x All Pro, 5x Pro Bowl, maybe the best nose tackle of his era.  Asante Samuel; 3x All Pro, 3 time Pro Bowler, lead the NFL in INTs three times...  Ben Watson, Matt Cassel, James Sanders, Nick Kaczur, Ellis Hobbs...  4x All Pro, 5x Pro Bowler Logan Mankins... Matthew Slater, Seabass Vollmer, J Edelman, Ghost, Zoltan Mesko, Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gronk, Devin McCourty, Marcus Cannon, Nate Solder, Ryan Mallet, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Alfonzo Dennard, Tavon Wilson, Dont'a Hightower and Chandler Jones.

    And those are just the rookies, the GM is also responsible for the free agents like Keith Traylor, Larry Izzo, Christian Fauria, Bryan Cox, Mark Anderson, Anthony Pleasant, Leigh Bodden, Rosevelt Colvin, Alge Crumpler, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer, Danny Woodhead, David Patten, Andre Carter, Brian Waters, Rob Ninkovich, Junior Seau, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison and others who brought rings and/or were productive here.

    All in all, this GM oversaw a Dynasty, had the winningest record in NFL history, came within one game of an undefeated season after going on a 21 game winning streak; he's one of the best in the business and he had enough sense to hire himself a coach free agents want to play for and knows how to win.

    Sorry, is this really a question?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    The direction that this thread would take was entirely predictable.  For the record, my vote is that BB is solidly choice 1 - he's among the best in the game.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Bill is one of the best GMs in the game but I think you can also make arguments for other GMs being in the picture. Bottom line any team that has won multiple super bowls has a good GM - unlike even the NBA you just can't luck or BS your way into enough great players to win it all multiple times without being a great GM. I'd say getting to the championship game and winning a Super Bowl could be enough. 

    BB is in that conversation, so is Ravens GM, Giants GM, Steelers GM. You can't argue with those team's results. Packers GM also. Woiuld have to give other NFC teams more thought. 

    So I'd give Bill a 1.5. However, he is not infallible as a GM and warrants criticism at certain points. Again I will judge the team by results not by the offseason in the end, but it's fair to say for now BB the GM has had a very rough offseason. I won't go through all the screw ups as I've made the case before. 

    Rusty, I get too frustrated with your Belichick is better than Lombardi, Brady cost us two Super Bowls and can't play in the postseason anymore schtick to argue with it except with potshots. 

    But I will say this: your entire argument falls apart because if BB is that good a coach, and Brady is costing his team, then you take action. You bench him for a series of plays, bring in a Tebow type to run goal line or running plays, whatever it is. You get control of your team back. 

    So your argument caves totally in on itself. if BB is good as you say then he has to get control of Brady. You can argue Belichick is a great coach/GM and Brady is overrated, but you simply can't say that BB is an all time great coash and not hold him accountable for QB related decisions. 

    That's not even taking into account that from what I know of the facts it doesn't work that way. But even if Brady was out of control, BB still has the power to yank him. Your argument has a huge logic flaw. 

    My argument doesn't because I blame the entire team for our losses (though different games would cause different levels of blame). I also make the case that in todays' NFL, you can't have a Brad Johnson type QB and a shut down defense and win. Offensive rules have shifted too much. 

    But: somewhere between 6-10 teams have a quarterback good enough to win it all. Maybe 12. Defense comes into play much more significantly in the post season. Mobile quarterbacks and running game to some extent as well. 

    Where you have a partial point on Brady is that he is no longer #1 or #2 in the postseason. Mostly because the value of mobility for a QB has gone up, and Brady's own mobility has decreased even from its limited point. And yes, since the lost year he is just a bit more skittish. 

    He's stil plenty good enough to win it all though. He does, however, need to be surrounded by more game changes at offense and defense skill positions. And that's why BB's bad offseason couldn't have been timed any worse. 

    But - I'll be happy to be proven wrong about BB's offseason if we make a deep playoff run into 2014.

       
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

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    I'm sure some will say I'm trying to stir the pot with this, but I'm not. I am honestly curious if perceptions have changed. It seems they have from the last time I did this sort of thing a year or two ago. (back when they actually had polls.)

    If you're just going to gripe that the question exists you might want to just move on and address some other subject people choose to discuss that doesn't aggravate you.

    Please vote on his GM work, not his head coaching skills.

     

    What caliber of GM is BB?

     

    1. Good to among the best in the game.

     

    2. Average to somewhat better than average.

     

    3. Somewhat deficient to a clear failure.

     

     

    I'll vote 2.

     

     

     



    With these definitions, I'd pick one.  I think he's among the best in the game, though I think there are three or four others who are similarly successful, and BB has had enough failures to prevent me from saying he's unequivocally the best.  

     

     

     

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    Rank your top 3 GMs and explain your rankings, please. If every GM has their failures and BB has the best resume of any of them (unless the GM is fairly new), how can he be one of the best, but behind someone else with a better resume? That makes no sense.

     

    Who has the better overall resume?

    Do you really want me to again say BB would have 4 rings (or 5), if Brady was better in SB 42 or SB 46? Do you? 

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    I don't think there's any objective standard for ranking GMs, so it's a fool's errand to try to do so. I also have never said anyone is definitely "better" than BB.  My opinion has always been that BB is among the top in the league, but not clearly better than a handful of others who are also good (like Newsome and Thompson).  Again, it's a fools errand to try to say with certainty who is best. The variables are just too large and chance plays too big a role to make an absolute determination.  

    BB's peculiar strength as a GM is his ability to put together teams (often from spare parts) that can perform well together.  His value strategy complements that strength (and helps compensate for the low picks the Pats have earned in the draft thanks to their consistent winning records) by giving him flexibility to add and subtract players without running into cap problems.  At the same time, he's brought in a high number of players who really never contributed and has gone through long periods where certain positions (secondary most notably) remained weak despite a lot of draft picks being used.   Overall, the team has had too few impact players to be dominant in the playoffs.  Instead, we have a well-coached team of average talent that can win repeatedly in the regular season, but struggles against top competition. 

    You yourself recognize the struggles of the team against top competition.  You blame it all on Brady calling plays against the coaches will.  That's just fantasy.  The real reason the team struggles against top competition is it lacks enough breadth, depth, and diversity of quality talent.  BB's coaching works miracles, but as Brian Billick just said last week on NFL Network, in the end talent wins championships and the Pats just haven't had the talent they need to get over the top.  With a healthy Gronk they would have won the past two years maybe, but that's part of the problem with the team.  If you lose the one impact receiver you have to injury, there's no one to compensate for the loss.  Because the Pats are thin at impact players, injuries to one or two key players really transform the team from a competitive one to one that looks overmatched against top competition. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

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    Welker is gone, those days should be long gone. BB broke it up. For good.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    PHOENIX — Four days after Wes Welker was introduced as the newest Broncos wide receiver, Patriots owner Robert Kraft went on the offensive at the NFL meetings.

    Kraft said Monday that Welker's agent, David Dunn, "overvalued" Welker on the open market and said he believed Welker was offered a better deal to stay with the Patriots. According to Kraft, the Patriots offered Welker a two-year contract worth $10 million plus incentives.

    Welker's deal with the Broncos is a two-year contract worth $12 million. It includes a $4 million signing bonus and a $2 million base salary for this season. Next year, Welker will have a $3 million base salary and a $3 million bonus.

    Kraft said the Broncos' deal was essentially

    a one-year affair, something the Broncos' decision makers dispute, and Kraft said the Patriots' last offer to Welker would have given $8 million in salary and bonuses to Welker this season.

    "We just couldn't give Wes what he wanted," Kraft said. "We, in fact, offered him a better deal."

     


    Rusty, tell us exactly how Belichick broke up the Brady to Welker connection in an effort to cut down on the shotgun and run the ball more.

     

     

     

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    BB is the GM.  Kraft can save face all day long. NE lowered their price on Welker. That's the fact. 8 mil to 5.  That was not an accident. If NE wanted to keep Welker, they would have.

     

     

     

    Dunn is also Hernandez's agent.  Hmmm.  Seems like that loser has been quite lately, huh?

    Botches Welker's deal, gets greedy on Hernandez's and doesn't know his own client. I'd say it's a bad year for David Dunn so far.

     

     

     

     

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    Wait a minute, two days ago you were saying Dunn's only clients were Sanchez and Hernadez. Now he is also Welker's? This guy isn't done like you said....do you ever reserch anything before giving us your insightful opinion?

     

     

     

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    He's also Chip Kelly's. I didn't list his entire list. I listed the ones that are making him have a bad year.   You're right, though, Welkie and Dunn thinking he's worth 10 mil on the open market, selfishly so, was a disaster for them. lol

     

    I doubt NE uses Dunn much again. His rep will take a hit, you can bank on that. A pattern is there.  Dunn doesn't know the market and doesn't know his client.

    Reading comprehension, Cupcake.   What is the last book you read? LOL  

    Oh my. So embarrassing you teach kids anything.

    [/QUOTE]

    He's also Clay Matthews' and Aaron Rodgers'.  Terrible year . . . 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    [QUOTE]
    Because he isn't a micromanager, diverts other elements of the team to certain coaches, like all/most NFL coaches do.

     

     

    He could be an OC, but then people like you who have man lust for Brady would claim he is a dictator.

    Why does it all go back to BB?  Do you ever realize that you BBWs all do the same thing? You want BB to coach every part of the team, be the QB, and now apparently, have a crystal ball to see if a 22 year old might be capabale of pulling a Ray Lewis.

    Hmm.

    What responsiblities does Brady have in your mind? Any?

     



    If the plays being called by Brady, you know, the guy you say runs the offense, are detrimental to the success of the team, why doesn't the greatest coach in the history of the NFL do something about it?  (Calling a timeout at one point early in a game doesn't count.  I mean, make serious changes to stop his rogue QB from ruining the team.)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And why has he let it go on since 2005 or 2007 or however long it is Rusty is claiming this problem has existed.  Five seasons?  Seven seasons?  Rusty must think Bill Belichick is a blubbering bowl of backboneless jelly the way he's let Brady push him around year after year.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
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    PHOENIX — Four days after Wes Welker was introduced as the newest Broncos wide receiver, Patriots owner Robert Kraft went on the offensive at the NFL meetings.

    Kraft said Monday that Welker's agent, David Dunn, "overvalued" Welker on the open market

     


    Rusty, tell us exactly how Belichick broke up the Brady to Welker connection in an effort to cut down on the shotgun and run the ball more.

     

     

     

     



    BB is the GM.  Kraft can save face all day long. NE lowered their price on Welker. That's the fact. 8 mil to 5.  That was not an accident. If NE wanted to keep Welker, they would have.

     

     

     

     

    Dunn is also Hernandez's agent.  Hmmm.  Seems like that loser has been quite lately, huh?

    Botches Welker's deal, gets greedy on Hernandez's and doesn't know his own client. I'd say it's a bad year for David Dunn so far.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wait a minute, two days ago you were saying Dunn's only clients were Sanchez and Hernadez. Now he is also Welker's? This guy isn't done like you said....do you ever reserch anything before giving us your insightful opinion?

     

     

     

     

     

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    He's also Chip Kelly's. I didn't list his entire list. I listed the ones that are making him have a bad year.   You're right, though, Welkie and Dunn thinking he's worth 10 mil on the open market, selfishly so, was a disaster for them. lol

     

     

    I doubt NE uses Dunn much again. His rep will take a hit, you can bank on that. A pattern is there.  Dunn doesn't know the market and doesn't know his client.

    Reading comprehension, Cupcake.   What is the last book you read? LOL  

    Oh my. So embarrassing you teach kids anything.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He's also Clay Matthews' and Aaron Rodgers'.  Terrible year . . . 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I haven't googled Dunn, but I've certainly heard of him, I imagine he is one of the more powerfull agents in the NFL yet rusty (per usual) didn't do his homework and talks of him like he is some kid selling snake oil.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Looks like the voting is running along the lines of those who think Brady is carrying the team vs those that think BB is the source of success and Brady is just some tool the genius will replace when needed.

    The day of reconing will be upon us soon enough. And I will shove I told you so down your throughts without mercy :))))).

     

     

     photo BBandtheRat_zpsc338a3a1.gif

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    ......

    In case you are wondering what the "failed Welker/Moss offense" looked like on paper, I took a screenshot for you.  Here it is.  Wow.  What a total failure that was.  Thank GOD they got Alge Crumpler.



    Your list is old, the Pats are first and second now. They scored 557 points in 2012.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Muzwell's comment:



    Your list is old, the Pats are first and second now. They scored 557 points in 2012.

     



    Thanks, Muz.  At least the #1 spot is still held by the "failed Welker/Moss" experiment.  I am so thankful that Belichick broke that up.

    Go Alge Go!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to APpats21's comment:



    Rusty is gonna play this off as if he already knew this or he'll just ignore it. Oh well...

     



    Yeah, I haven't seen a response from him on this at all.  Considering how incredibly stupid he looks for his ill fated barb, I can understand why.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Looks like the voting is running along the lines of those who think Brady is carrying the team vs those that think BB is the source of success and Brady is just some tool the genius will replace when needed.

    The day of reconing will be upon us soon enough. And I will shove I told you so down your throughts without mercy :))))).



    Lol!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Definitely top five. Ozzie, Ted Thompson, and Baalke (has done a good job last three years) might also be on that list. Ozzie has to revamp his defense (No Lewis or Reed). Thompson has to improve his D beyond the good secondary and Mathews. Baalke is loaded with picks, but he has to draft starters to improve and compete with Seattle (who could have the best secondary in the NFL). BB almost always has to deal with low first round picks.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Your list is old, the Pats are first and second now. They scored 557 points in 2012.

     

     

     



    Thanks, Muz.  At least the #1 spot is still held by the "failed Welker/Moss" experiment.  I am so thankful that Belichick broke that up.

     

    Go Alge Go!

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Looks like the voting is running along the lines of those who think Brady is carrying the team vs those that think BB is the source of success and Brady is just some tool the genius will replace when needed.

    The day of reconing will be upon us soon enough. And I will shove I told you so down your throughts without mercy :))))).



    One day in the not too distant future Brady will retire, BB and the Patriots winning ways will continue and the back peddling will begin... we'll have to listen how Mallet or whomever is the QB wasn't picked by Bill but by some scout within the organization so he shouldn't get credit for the pick.

    I'm not anxious for Brady to retire, but that day will come, I'll be sure to revive this thread...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In the name of all that's football, will traing camp start - PLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEAASSSSSSSSSE!?!?!?!?!




    What he said.

    Also, since the question was asked...I'll go with choice #1.  I figure the best measure of a GM's success would have to be the team's performance.  Overall, I think that speaks for itself.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    BB is in category number 1.   Because of his success he has to draft with one hand tied behind his back every year.   He knows that once you get beyond the top picks in a draft class it becomes a crap shoot.  He trades down to get multiple picks and plays the numbers game.  He also pays the picks according to the lower draft position to manage the cap.  He trades up for future picks because his roster is already stacked.  

    He won't overpay because that would just take money away from another player in the salary cap era.  He signs non choir boy FA's to low risk or no risk contracts.   Mess up and he will cut you.  

    BB doesn't self promote or mouth off at pressers.  This is the corporate culture he is cultivating.  Top down.  Do what's best for the company.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Looks like the voting is running along the lines of those who think Brady is carrying the team vs those that think BB is the source of success and Brady is just some tool the genius will replace when needed.

    The day of reconing will be upon us soon enough. And I will shove I told you so down your throughts without mercy :))))).

     



    One day in the not too distant future Brady will retire, BB and the Patriots winning ways will continue and the back peddling will begin... we'll have to listen how Mallet or whomever is the QB wasn't picked by Bill but by some scout within the organization so he shouldn't get credit for the pick.

     

    I'm not anxious for Brady to retire, but that day will come, I'll be sure to revive this thread...

    [/QUOTE]


    I'll eat my crow if that happens. And I'll make sure you do if I'm right.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

    BB is in category number 1.   Because of his success he has to draft with one hand tied behind his back every year.


    Not necessarily. He doesn't have to draft QBs like so many other teams do. And up until the rookie salary cap, drafting out of the top 10 was not a significant handicap.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    You make a good point about not having to draft a QB.  I was actually thinking that the rookie salary cap starts a new era.  I still believe that Bill's draft strategy is solid.  He is playing a numbers game and winning.  I don't discount Ernie Adams contribution either

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    I'm sure some will say I'm trying to stir the pot with this, but I'm not. I am honestly curious if perceptions have changed. It seems they have from the last time I did this sort of thing a year or two ago. (back when they actually had polls.)

    If you're just going to gripe that the question exists you might want to just move on and address some other subject people choose to discuss that doesn't aggravate you.

    Please vote on his GM work, not his head coaching skills.

     

    What caliber of GM is BB?

     

    1. Good to among the best in the game.

     

    2. Average to somewhat better than average.

     

    3. Somewhat deficient to a clear failure.

     

     

    I'll vote 2.

     




    Only thing I will add is I hope Bellichick sends Mo Lewis a Christmas card every year

     
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