BB the GM poll.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

     


    2008,  11-5 with an undrafted QB. 

     

     



    He will refute that point and claim that Cassell was just a good QB that went unnoticed.  BB and Tom Brady had nothing to do with his success.  Keep in mind that this is the same poster who admitted to being a "casual fan" when he first commented here and accused BB of cheating that left a stain on the organization.  I wouldn't put too much stock into his opinion of BB, let alone football.

     

     

    As for me, there's no question he's in category 1.  I'm not saying he's the best GM of all-time like some here nor am I saying that he's immune to mistakes, but when you put together consistent Super Bowl caliber teams year in and year out in a league filled with parity then you are among the best in the business.  I would not want any other person to be the GM of the team I cheer for.




    I never said Cassel was good. As a matter of fact I said he was mediocre and a career backup quality right along. And I was right, as usual.

     

     

     

    You said they finished with 11-5 from an easy schedule and didn't make the playoffs. 

    Sooooooo were the teams that they played - that bad? Or was BB great for leading his team to 11-5?  Because his starting QB is mediocre according to you.  So you have to give BB a lot of credit to lead a mediocre QB to an 11-5 record with your reasoning.  Sounds like you're not giving him enough credit. 

    C'mon Babe. To say easy schedule and no playoffs is just unappreciative. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The Miami Dolphins also had an 11-5 record... the Jests were 9-7 and the Bills were 7-9. The AFC East played though the AFC West, and New England still had a .500 record against them. And they played the NFC West. 

    There is a reason you go 11-5 and miss the playoffs ... it's because everyone was going 11-5 in the AFC East or close to it ... on any other year that would have been a 8-8 ballclub or worse. 

    The bottom line, New Englad wasn't very good, nor were the Dolphins, nor were the Jests. They simply had a really, really easy schedule that inflated everyone's win count in the AFC East.

    It's nice to applaud the wins if if makes you feel good, but I'll say now what I said then: if New England were good enough to go to the playoffs they would have went instead of dropping all their tough games and splitting with terrible teams like the Jets and Miami.

    If Brady had been here ... they probably would have been 16-0 again.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    There should be five options. 

    Why only three ... again? Well, last time you did this it was two.

    There should be five.  

     

     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    BB greatness expires when Tom Brady retires or no longer can compete at an elite level.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    There should be five options. 

    Why only three ... again? Well, last time you did this it was two.

    There should be five.  

     

     


    what should the 5 be z, and how would you vote?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

     


    2008,  11-5 with an undrafted QB. 

     

     



    He will refute that point and claim that Cassell was just a good QB that went unnoticed.  BB and Tom Brady had nothing to do with his success.  Keep in mind that this is the same poster who admitted to being a "casual fan" when he first commented here and accused BB of cheating that left a stain on the organization.  I wouldn't put too much stock into his opinion of BB, let alone football.

     

     

    As for me, there's no question he's in category 1.  I'm not saying he's the best GM of all-time like some here nor am I saying that he's immune to mistakes, but when you put together consistent Super Bowl caliber teams year in and year out in a league filled with parity then you are among the best in the business.  I would not want any other person to be the GM of the team I cheer for.




    I never said Cassel was good. As a matter of fact I said he was mediocre and a career backup quality right along. And I was right, as usual.

     

     

     

     

     

    You said they finished with 11-5 from an easy schedule and didn't make the playoffs. 

    Sooooooo were the teams that they played - that bad? Or was BB great for leading his team to 11-5?  Because his starting QB is mediocre according to you.  So you have to give BB a lot of credit to lead a mediocre QB to an 11-5 record with your reasoning.  Sounds like you're not giving him enough credit. 

    C'mon Babe. To say easy schedule and no playoffs is just unappreciative. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Miami Dolphins also had an 11-5 record... the Jests were 9-7 and the Bills were 7-9. The AFC East played though the AFC West, and New England still had a .500 record against them. And they played the NFC West. 

     

    There is a reason you go 11-5 and miss the playoffs ... it's because everyone was going 11-5 in the AFC East or close to it ... on any other year that would have been a 8-8 ballclub or worse. 

    The bottom line, New Englad wasn't very good, nor were the Dolphins, nor were the Jests. They simply had a really, really easy schedule that inflated everyone's win count in the AFC East.

    It's nice to applaud the wins if if makes you feel good, but I'll say now what I said then: if New England were good enough to go to the playoffs they would have went instead of dropping all their tough games and splitting with terrible teams like the Jets and Miami.

    If Brady had been here ... they probably would have been 16-0 again.  

    [/QUOTE]


    ^^^^ Pure truth.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    BB greatness expires when Tom Brady retires or no longer can compete at an elite level.




    People think what Brady does is "normal". They have become spoiled, partly because right now the NFL has some very good QBs on a number of teams. They forget the interception machines that were Bledsoe and Grogan.

    They just do not get that QB is by far the most crucial component of a team and that HOF guys just don't grow on trees.

    They think BB will just go on his merry genius way racking up wins with a Mallet or Hoyer when Brady is done. NFW that is happening with the mediocre minions that make up the rest of the team these days, unless BB is the luckiest man alive and strikes some kind of once in a lifetime lottery on draft day again.

    When it comes many will be on a suicide watch from the shock. The rest will just act like they knew all along it was Brady not BB.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxrockursox. Show soxrockursox's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    BB greatness expires when Tom Brady retires or no longer can compete at an elite level.

     




    People think what Brady does is "normal". They have become spoiled, partly because right now the NFL has some very good QBs on a number of teams. They forget the interception machines that were Bledsoe and Grogan.

     

    They just do not get that QB is by far the most crucial component of a team and that HOF guys just don't grow on trees.

    They think BB will just go on his merry genius way racking up wins with a Mallet or Hoyer when Brady is done. NFW that is happening with the mediocre minions that make up the rest of the team these days, unless BB is the luckiest man alive and strikes some kind of once in a lifetime lottery on draft day again.

    When it comes many will be on a suicide watch from the shock. The rest will just act like they knew all along it was Brady not BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    haha Iam thinking rusty on that one .a few days ago i started a thread about BBs contract and asked if anyone heard whats going on with it since its up after this season ,he called me a trollgo figure.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    There should be five options. 

    Why only three ... again? Well, last time you did this it was two.

    There should be five.  

     

     

     


    what should the 5 be z, and how would you vote?

    [/QUOTE]

    Just break yours out into five. 

    You have someting like:

     

    elite

    great

    average

    below average 

    poor

    You could even have swing options for "the best" or "the worst".

    If it were broken up like that I'd be 1 or 2.

    He isn't the best, but there are tons worse than him. 

    Slam dunk top ten, rock solid top five, there is a case he is top three in the game right now.

    Yeah, he had a tough stretch for a few seasons, but was really just gangbusters early in the 2000s and early in the 2010s. 

    The awkward stretch between 2007-2009 was tough to watch though. 

    It probably set the team back that many seasons. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Given z's options, I would vote great not elite.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

     

    I guess I'm most comfortable saying BB is among the top GMs in the league today, with maybe two or three others in with him.  BB's made enough bad calls that I can't say he's unequivocably the best, but he's been so successful at maintaining a competitive team for so long that you have to put him right near the top.  Newsome and Thompson are two I would say are roughly equals.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to soxrockursox's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    BB greatness expires when Tom Brady retires or no longer can compete at an elite level.

     

     




    People think what Brady does is "normal". They have become spoiled, partly because right now the NFL has some very good QBs on a number of teams. They forget the interception machines that were Bledsoe and Grogan.

     

     

    They just do not get that QB is by far the most crucial component of a team and that HOF guys just don't grow on trees.

    They think BB will just go on his merry genius way racking up wins with a Mallet or Hoyer when Brady is done. NFW that is happening with the mediocre minions that make up the rest of the team these days, unless BB is the luckiest man alive and strikes some kind of once in a lifetime lottery on draft day again.

    When it comes many will be on a suicide watch from the shock. The rest will just act like they knew all along it was Brady not BB.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    haha Iam thinking rusty on that one .a few days ago i started a thread about BBs contract and asked if anyone heard whats going on with it since its up after this season ,he called me a trollgo figure.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    And when I proved him dead wrong on when the contract was signed he tried to weasel out of it.... just like he always does.

    He calls everybody a troll who slams his stupidity.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    There should be five options. 

    Why only three ... again? Well, last time you did this it was two.

    There should be five.  

     

     

     

     

     


    what should the 5 be z, and how would you vote?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Just break yours out into five. 

     

    You have someting like:

     

    elite

    great

    average

    below average 

    poor

    You could even have swing options for "the best" or "the worst".

    If it were broken up like that I'd be 1 or 2.

    He isn't the best, but there are tons worse than him. 

    Slam dunk top ten, rock solid top five, there is a case he is top three in the game right now.

    Yeah, he had a tough stretch for a few seasons, but was really just gangbusters early in the 2000s and early in the 2010s. 

    The awkward stretch between 2007-2009 was tough to watch though. 

    It probably set the team back that many seasons. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Absolutely nothing great about BB's drafting.

     

    Average GM.

     

    Average team + HOF QB = BB exposed the day Brady hangs them up as nothing more than the failure in Cleveland who simply got lucky in the 2000 draft.

     

    Great coach, but you have to have the players or coaching is moot.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I guess I'm most comfortable saying BB is among the top GMs in the league today, with maybe two or three others in with him.  BB's made enough bad calls that I can't say he's unequivocably the best, but he's been so successful at maintaining a competitive team for so long that you have to put him right near the top.  Newsome and Thompson are two I would say are roughly equals.  


    Teams with HOF caliber QBs are invariably competitive. BB's teams were not very competitive until Brady came along. (a 41 - 55 record pre-Brady)

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from newbill. Show newbill's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    A GM has to be judged by W/L's and success/failure. Success/failure or Wins/losses are a direct result of the 53 man roster and coaching staff/orginization.

    BB 13 year resume as GM of the Pat's to date.

    Reg Season 151-57 .726

    Playoffs 17-7 .708

    AFCCG's 5-2

    SB's 3-2

    I have said this before there is not one GM in the NFL that is perfect and there is not one GM that has not made multiple mistakes in the draft and FA including BB.

    I understand the frustration as well as anyone losing AFCCG's and SB's but how many GM's in the NFL have this type of resume? I am not saying he is the best but if not he is in the top few. Just my 2 cents.

     



    That tells it all.  If you're looking for perfection I hope you find it.

    If the point of the game is to win, then he's in the top few

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    I understand the frustration as well as anyone losing AFCCG's and SB's but how many GM's in the NFL have this type of resume?

     



    Only the guy who has Tom Brady as his QB.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    A GM has to be judged by W/L's and success/failure. Success/failure or Wins/losses are a direct result of the 53 man roster and coaching staff/orginization.

    BB 13 year resume as GM of the Pat's to date.

    Reg Season 151-57 .726

    Playoffs 17-7 .708

    AFCCG's 5-2

    SB's 3-2

     

     



    Could I see that BB Patriots resume for a minute please? Thank you.

     

    Hmmmm..... interesting. It says here.....

     

    BB's record with Brady is 10 playoff appearances made in 11 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

     

    Oh and this here says BB is 136 - 39 with Brady and 16 -16 without him.

     

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since BB has never gotten a Pats team to the playoffs without Brady he has no playoff wins without Brady as well.

     

    I'm seeing a pattern here.

     

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    Easy. 1.


    Clearly the best GM in the game. 

     

    Pats record over last decade is the best in the game. Pats have been legitimate Super Bowl contenders every year for last 12 years. What more could you ask of a GM. Field a SB contending team every year.


    And his actual coaching talent took us to 5 Super Bowls and 7 AFC Championships from those teams. 


    BB is the best GM ever. Noone ever has been this good for this long in the salary cap era. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to murghkhor's comment:


    BB is the best GM ever. Noone ever has been this good for this long in the salary cap era. 



    Okay, so no one ever has been this good for this long in the past 18 years.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

     

    I guess I'm most comfortable saying BB is among the top GMs in the league today, with maybe two or three others in with him.  BB's made enough bad calls that I can't say he's unequivocably the best, but he's been so successful at maintaining a competitive team for so long that you have to put him right near the top.  Newsome and Thompson are two I would say are roughly equals.  

     

     

     

     


    Teams with HOF caliber QBs are invariably competitive. BB's teams were not very competitive until Brady came along. (a 41 - 55 record pre-Brady)

     

     



     

    That same stat could call into question BB's coaching too.  What makes you think he's a great coach but a poor GM?  Based on the logic above, you could say all his success is based on having Brady, and that his coaching and team-building ability have nothing to do with it. 

    Personally, I think all three factors (Brady, Belichick's coaching, and Belichick's team-building) have contributed to the team's success.  But exactly because all three factors matter, I think it's hard to determine exactly where BB is as a GM based solely on win-loss record.  I think you have to look at how the player's he's picked have performed relative to other players he could have picked (you also have to evaluate the somewhat unique strategy he's employed in the draft and free agency, which seems to place a higher value on cap flexibility than many other teams do).  When you do that, I think you see he's done fairly well, but not necessarily specatularly so. I haven't done a rigourous study, though, of Belichick's moves versus other GM's moves, so I can't be sure.  Which is why all this ranking is just opinion . . . not one of us has done any kind of rigourous study, so we're all kind of talking out our behinds . . . 

     

    _____

    One other factor that maybe is worth thinking about when evaluating BB.  He seems to value  "team fit" over individual talent as he picks players.  He's looking for guys that complement the rest of the team more than he's looking for top individual talent.  I think that complementary approach means he often has weaker individual talent on his teams, but talent that plays well together.  That makes looking purely at individual player talent an incomplete way of evaluating BB.  You have to look at both individual talent and overall team quality.  That's a very difficult analysis to perform in a rigourous way. 

    When I say BB is a great GM, it's because I think he does a great job of putting a competitive team together.  Where I think he maybe falls a bit short is in getting top talent, which ultimately, I believe, is essential to win the toughest games. 

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    A GM has to be judged by W/L's and success/failure. Success/failure or Wins/losses are a direct result of the 53 man roster and coaching staff/orginization.

    BB 13 year resume as GM of the Pat's to date.

    Reg Season 151-57 .726

    Playoffs 17-7 .708

    AFCCG's 5-2

    SB's 3-2

     

     

     

     



     

     

    Could I see that BB Patriots resume for a minute please? Thank you.

     

    Hmmmm..... interesting. It says here.....

     

    BB's record with Brady is 10 playoff appearances made in 11 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

     

    Oh and this here says BB is 136 - 39 with Brady and 16 -16 without him.

     

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since BB has never gotten a Pats team to the playoffs without Brady he has no playoff wins without Brady as well.

     

    I'm seeing a pattern here.

     

     

     

     



    Babe, you could counter the same with Brady... he has never been to or won a playoff game without BB. It's is a bad arguement both ways. They are together... it is their legacy whether we like it or not. The 2 of these guys have given me 12  years of great football which I as a season ticket holder am tremendously appreciative of. Especially considering what I witnessed in the late 80's and early 90's from this franchise.

     

    I have said this many, many times in these type of threads. As Pat's fans we should be thanking our lucky stars that we were able to experience TB & BB together. We as Pat's fans are so fotunate to have witnessed possibly the GQBOAT, possibly the greatest HCOAT and a suberp GM who has done a tremendous job over the years of building 53 man rosters... who also makes mistakes just like the other 31 GM's in the NFL. In todays game he is a 1 as a GM perhaps not the best but if not close to it. At the end of the day it is only my opinion and I don't begrudge anyone else for having a different take on the subject. For me it is about the success they have had as I outlined in my original post.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    A GM has to be judged by W/L's and success/failure. Success/failure or Wins/losses are a direct result of the 53 man roster and coaching staff/orginization.

    BB 13 year resume as GM of the Pat's to date.

    Reg Season 151-57 .726

    Playoffs 17-7 .708

    AFCCG's 5-2

    SB's 3-2

     

     

     

     



     

     

    Could I see that BB Patriots resume for a minute please? Thank you.

     

    Hmmmm..... interesting. It says here.....

     

    BB's record with Brady is 10 playoff appearances made in 11 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

     

    Oh and this here says BB is 136 - 39 with Brady and 16 -16 without him.

     

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since BB has never gotten a Pats team to the playoffs without Brady he has no playoff wins without Brady as well.

     

    I'm seeing a pattern here.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, you could counter the same with Brady... he has never been to or won a playoff game without BB. It's is a bad arguement both ways. They are together... it is their legacy whether we like it or not. The 2 of these guys have given me 12  years of great football which I as a season ticket holder am tremendously appreciative of. Especially considering what I witnessed in the late 80's and early 90's from this franchise.

     

    I have said this many, many times in these type of threads. As Pat's fans we should be thanking our lucky stars that we were able to experience TB & BB together. We as Pat's fans are so fotunate to have witnessed possibly the GQBOAT, possibly the greatest HCOAT and a suberp GM who has done a tremendous job over the years of building 53 man rosters... who also makes mistakes just like the other 31 GM's in the NFL. In todays game he is a 1 as a GM perhaps not the best but if not close to it. At the end of the day it is only my opinion and I don't anyone else for having a different take on the subject. For me it is about the success they have had as I outlined in my original post.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying Bill Belichick isn't the best coach in the NFL, but Tom Brady won with Lloyd Carr for christ's sake.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

     


    Okay, so no one ever has been this good for this long in the past 18 years.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So, I know I should go to the B's board, but I'm a creature of habit... What's your take on the trade? 

    I liked Seguin's talent but sometimes he didn't play with much....focus, intensity, whatever. Just something missing there. I've followed Stamkos career here, and he started out slow kind of like Seguin, but it only took him a year to figure it out. You could see the light coming on really by the end of his first year.  And there was never a concern with effort.

    I was expecting that sort of leap by Seguin, and here we are still waiting. Hate to give up that potential... 

    That said, I have no clue about what they got back, and I understand they got salary cap relief and all that.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    A GM has to be judged by W/L's and success/failure. Success/failure or Wins/losses are a direct result of the 53 man roster and coaching staff/orginization.

    BB 13 year resume as GM of the Pat's to date.

    Reg Season 151-57 .726

    Playoffs 17-7 .708

    AFCCG's 5-2

    SB's 3-2

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     

    Could I see that BB Patriots resume for a minute please? Thank you.

     

    Hmmmm..... interesting. It says here.....

     

    BB's record with Brady is 10 playoff appearances made in 11 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

     

    Oh and this here says BB is 136 - 39 with Brady and 16 -16 without him.

     

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since BB has never gotten a Pats team to the playoffs without Brady he has no playoff wins without Brady as well.

     

    I'm seeing a pattern here.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, you could counter the same with Brady... he has never been to or won a playoff game without BB. It's is a bad arguement both ways. They are together... it is their legacy whether we like it or not. The 2 of these guys have given me 12  years of great football which I as a season ticket holder am tremendously appreciative of. Especially considering what I witnessed in the late 80's and early 90's from this franchise.

     

     

    I have said this many, many times in these type of threads. As Pat's fans we should be thanking our lucky stars that we were able to experience TB & BB together. We as Pat's fans are so fotunate to have witnessed possibly the GQBOAT, possibly the greatest HCOAT and a suberp GM who has done a tremendous job over the years of building 53 man rosters... who also makes mistakes just like the other 31 GM's in the NFL. In todays game he is a 1 as a GM perhaps not the best but if not close to it. At the end of the day it is only my opinion and I don't anyone else for having a different take on the subject. For me it is about the success they have had as I outlined in my original post.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying Bill Belichick isn't the best coach in the NFL, but Tom Brady won with Lloyd Carr for christ's sake.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Okay and Dan Marino didn't win with Don Shula. Lots of great QB's won with bad coaches and lots of great coaches won with bad QB's. I understand the point you are trying to make but as I said their legacy's like it or not will be tied to each other. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I'm not saying Bill Belichick isn't the best coach in the NFL, but Tom Brady won with Lloyd Carr for christ's sake.

     



    So did Brian Griese, not sure what that proves.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: BB the GM poll.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Could I see that BB Patriots resume for a minute please? Thank you.

    Hmmmm..... interesting. It says here.....

    BB's record with Brady is 10 playoff appearances made in 11 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

    Oh and this here says BB is 136 - 39 with Brady and 16 -16 without him.

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since BB has never gotten a Pats team to the playoffs without Brady he has no playoff wins without Brady as well.

    I'm seeing a pattern here.



    Walsh's record with Montana is 7 playoff appearances made in 8 seasons. Without him, zero appearances in two seasons. Wow.

    Bill Walsh was 92-59-1 with his 3rd round QB 17-23-1 without him.

    Oh and, on the playoffs, I guess since Walsh has never gotten a 49ers team to the playoffs without Montana he has no playoff wins without Montana as well.

    I'm seeing a pattern here.

     

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