before we kickoff a promising 09...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    before we kickoff a promising 09...

    i must break my silence after two years of analyzation i can safely say that bill belichik and josh mcdaniels lost sb 42 for us.  the offensive game plan was what?  "let's go in there in the most challenging game of the year against a team we faced and beat in week 17, whose had two weeks to prepare for us and do exactly the same thing we've been doing all year"?!  how could these coaches not have realized that kind of pass rush, which had been getting to brady the last 4 weeks of the season, would not come stronger than ever?  they should have humbled themselves, like they claimed all year, and puonded the ball at that giants d-line, consolidate the passing game and gradually worn out that defense until finally they hit them up for a few big play touchdowns at key points later in the game.  but no, they thought they could cake walk right past them with constant 5 receiver sets, putting brady at risk and coughing up multiple turnovers.  we played right into the giants' hands, and by the end of the game it was our defense which was too tired to make the big play.... we couldn't dig deep enough to be the greatest team of that season, nevermind ever. 

    i hope these coaches and players have digested that lesson deep, as last year was an indication that they have, being 6th in rushing and consolidating the offense for cassell, and that they continue to keep our 09 offense balanced, and HUMBLY pound teams into defeat once we have big leads instead of playing scoreboard rollem' and putting brady's health at risk.  there's something a team gains toward playoff toughness in stomping out an opponent rather than lighting them up. 

    stay strong, stay humble.....for real this time.
    go pats.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from justme2. Show justme2's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    You need to get over it. The Giants came out and played a hell of a game. They have the horse power to be in brady's face all night. If you need to blame anyome you don't nbeed to look any further than our defense. And you can't lay the blame for that fully on BB either. We put about 8 DB's on IR before the season even started. The Giants did to the Pats what the Pats did to the Rams. if either of those games gets played 9 more times, The Patriots/Rams win all 9. I'm over the loss. I do however sometimes lement the perfect season that might have been..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    Hindsight is 20/20 I too was screaming to go "max all in" and hit Rb in the flats or over the middle. But give the Giants some credit they were able to pressure Brady with just 3 rushers...3 against 5 and cover everybody. Spagnola came up with a great game plan helped by playing us in week 17. Also the loss of Kevin Faulk to injury really hurt in the pass/blitz protection and the screen play.


    Also it did not hurt the Giants that the referees swallowed their whistles the last 2 minutes.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patpscyho. Show patpscyho's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    BB and McD were not responsible for the freak helmet catch or Asante dropping the interception pass.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    since you haven't noticed, and you obviously can't take my origional post as one piece and only read the first paragraph, JUSTME,  let me help you out.  for all intents this is the first time brady will be commanding the offense since superbowl 42, in which we were fully exposed as being succeptable to a dominant 4-3 front seven. 

    if you had taken the time to read the second paragraph, you'd understand that the whole point of the post is in hoping the patriots learn from that game, the last time brady fielded the offense for more than a  few plays, and continue the balanced attack our offense displayed last year.  it makes the whole team healthier, and prepares tham for playoff style football, so that we don't run into a brick wall again this year.

    getting over things is useless.  learning from your mistakes and understanding why they happened is paramount.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    I believe they learned a hard lesson. The Pats have improved on defense with the FA signings and draft picks, also they brought in more offensive weapons to make it more difficult for defenses to cover everyone.

    No more going for TD/passing records this year is about finishing with a win.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    Well I distinctly remember that in our first two possessions we did try to pound the Giants D line.  Our first play was the trick play gone awry, that Brady saved with a quick release/incompletion to Maroney.  On the next play we ran the ball for something like 8 yards, bringing up 3rd and short, and we pounded the ball through for a 1st down.  At the end of the series, after a PI call against the Giants bringing up 1st and Goal at the 1, we ran the ball twice, converting the second run for a TD.

    Next possession - screen to Maroney on 1st down for 8 yards.  Next two plays - power formation, pound the ball twice, Giants stop us.  Keep in mind by then we were well into the 2nd quarter, with only 2 or 3 posessions left in the half (one of which didn't start until we had less than a minute left).  We threw the ball a lot the rest of the game, but a lot of the passes were short passes and bubble screens that the Giants still managed to snuff out.  We tried a pass to Faulk in the flat at one point and Strahan simply reached up and knocked the ball out of the air.   We had two sustained, time consuming drives in the second half that both ended in Giants territory. 

    Our D did much better than in the 03 and 04 superbowls, when it was supposedly better.  We held the Giants to 3 points through 3 quarters in 07.  Our D collapsed at the end of the second half in 03, and in 04 let McNabb march down the field to get within 3.  And in 01 our D collapsed at the end of the game too.  So don't act like the 4th quarter of 07 was something new. 

    The surprise of the game was the Giants' ability to cover our receivers.  There were plays where Brady had time but the Giants broke up his passes, or more shockingly, he was inaccurate, suggesting maybe his ankle injury was more serious than we thought. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    Might...peace....sounds like you've watched that game many times something I can not do.




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...:
    I believe they learned a hard lesson. The Pats have improved on defense with the FA signings and draft picks, also they brought in more offensive weapons to make it more difficult for defenses to cover everyone. No more going for TD/passing records this year is about finishing with a win.
    Posted by Harleyroadking111


    this sums it up well enough.  we can't afford to experiment with record setting performances on offense. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    the first drive was beautiful.  once we realized that we'd have to play that way the rest of the game i think mcdaniels and BB (going for it on 4th and 12) got kind of pissy and los their nerve.  and why didn't the coaches do a better job of running out the clock on our last drive?  not very belichick like at all.

    anyway.....on to 09 with that loss in mind, no doubt, it should fuel our fire all season long and into the playoffs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...:
    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09... : this sums it up well enough.  we can't afford to experiment with record setting performances on offense. 
    Posted by beastplant


    I don't understand your point.  Why wouldn't we want to score as many points as possible?  No lead is safe.  Ball control is nice, but when time is running out, opponents can score points in a hurry (even bad opponents, remember the Bills last year?  We put together some ridiculously long drive to go up by 10, and then the Bills scored a TD in under 30 seconds to get within 3). 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    The first drive was saved by a (legitimate) PI call.  Who knows if Watson of all people would have made that catch.  And playing that way did not work, as the Giants showed on our next posession.  4th and 13 had nothing to do with running the ball.  Our last drive did consume a lot of time, but at 1st and goal with 2:40 left in the Superbowl, do you want to put the game in the hands of Brady or Maroney?

     The bottom line is we tried everything that game - running, short passes, deep passes, and the Giants D (and maybe Brady's injury) was just that good (bad). 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...:
    The first drive was saved by a (legitimate) PI call.  Who knows if Watson of all people would have made that catch.  And playing that way did not work, as the Giants showed on our next posession.  4th and 13 had nothing to do with running the ball.  Our last drive did consume a lot of time, but at 1st and goal with 2:40 left in the Superbowl, do you want to put the game in the hands of Brady or Maroney?  The bottom line is we tried everything that game - running, short passes, deep passes, and the Giants D (and maybe Brady's injury) was just that good (bad). 
    Posted by themightypatriots


    take nothign away from the giants, but i don't think they wanted it more than we did.  it was a poor game plan that lacked imagination, and foresight.  spagnolo said it himself about the 07 patriots offense after the game  "when you pressure brady, their offense tends to get very methodical."  which is another way of saying, for all our mighty point scoring, that offense maybe lacked a certain male genetalia when you knock em' right in the gut.  being able to protect leads and run the clock out builds not only offensive spine come playoff time, but gives the defense a chance to grown it itself.  remember, and i can understand about scoring as many points as possible, but playoff football is different than regular season football.  i think if the pats had taken a better, more balanced plan thru the entier sb42, we would have scored more points.  oh, and won.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...:
    In Response to Re: before we kickoff a promising 09... : take nothign away from the giants, but i don't think they wanted it more than we did.  it was a poor game plan that lacked imagination, and foresight.  spagnolo said it himself about the 07 patriots offense after the game  "when you pressure brady, their offense tends to get very methodical."  which is another way of saying, for all our mighty point scoring, that offense maybe lacked a certain male genetalia when you knock em' right in the gut.  being able to protect leads and run the clock out builds not only offensive spine come playoff time, but gives the defense a chance to grown it itself.  remember, and i can understand about scoring as many points as possible, but playoff football is different than regular season football.  i think if the pats had taken a better, more balanced plan thru the entier sb42, we would have scored more points.  oh, and won.
    Posted by beastplant

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    Well obviously they did want it more than us.  Otherwise Asante would have nabbed that interception, or Rodney would have judged the approach of the ball correctly, or Merriweather would have knocked down the guy trying to pick him, or we would have stuffed Jacobs, etc. 

    I don't know what you're trying to say about methodical/genitalia.  To me, methodical means running the ball and short passes, which it sounds like you are advocating, which is what we tried, and it didn't work.  Protecting leads is the job of the defense, and our D did it successfully all year until the Superbowl.  And our O ran the clock out plenty of times in 07.  I don't see how our approach to 07 affected the Superbowl, other than to show the Giants they would have to give it their best, which they did. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    we may never agree, but i interpreted spagnolo's comment such as the pats start to outthink themselves with complex passing routs instead of curing a potent pash rush by smashing it back in the mouth and using beefifer sets....primarily since that's what happened in the game.  not only that game but brady was getting beat up toward the end of the year and they just didn't think it would catch up to them becasue they won every game.  well, it caught up to us in the superbowl.

    would you agree that given brady's injury, we should at least stress the run and shorter pass routes this year till he gets his mojo back, and cut back on the seven step drops and deep fly patters that other teams will surely attack with more vigor after witnessing the giants successful gameplan?

    or do you think we should just come out gung ho trying to rival the regular season glory of 07?

    as for the defense, they really never had to go that far into a game and shut a team down that year.  as far as i'm concerned they played fine in the sb, but rodney was perhaps exposed in his lost step, as for junior and teddy, and perhaps the inexperience of merriweather reared its head as well. 

    the 07 team reminded me of mike tyson being forced past the 3rd round.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    what is done is done.oh beleive me it dosent happen to the pats the second time around.and the pats were dealing with injuries near the end of the season,and sb.so it would be more noticeable.im sure after that game,they all were wishing they had done something diffrent,but its two yrs over,and this season looks promiseing.this years traing camp is more physical then ever.plus haveing 90 players in camp is telling BB isnt messing around,he will have the best 53 guys available,and those who cant cut it,gets cut,or traded.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    These analyses are the most significant football discussions on this site in a long time. Understanding why we lost and what should be done about it should be what ever Patriot player and fan keeps in their gut.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: before we kickoff a promising 09...

    Ok you are right that the Pats like to employ complex passing routes, but that is pretty standard and not just a function of pressure on Brady.  We have a complex offense and many WRs can't handle it (Chad Jackson) but it has worked all decade under Brady.  And again we did try to go beefy against the Giants but they shut it down and after that we only had about 5 possessions the rest of the game. 

    I think our team has always stressed the short passes, even in the 07 Superbowl.  When you're up against a great D that can stop the run and the pass equally well, you put the ball in the hands of your best player, and that is far and away Brady.  It's what the Pats do every time they encounter a tough D, and they've done it all decade.  We tend to run against easy teams.  None of that will change this year. 


    I just don't get your comments about the D.  You seem to be complimenting them and then throwing these mocking insults at them.  They did just as well as any of our other Super Bowl D's.  Do you really expect to have a super bowl where our D holds the opponent to under 10 points all game? 

     
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