Being very honest about this season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjxg. Show mjxg's posts

    Being very honest about this season

    I'm a lifelong Pats fan, and putting my bias aside....

    I don't think this team is prepared to win this season via the "we scored more points than the other team" tactic. You need your defense to show up on game day.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    This defense is not nearly as bad as you people make it out to be. I would sit in a foxhole with this defense anyday. Im sorry you dont think we will win ball games this year but it will be all teh more nice when you are surprised at how we go 14-2.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Step back from the ledge, regular season hasn't started yet..........

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Exactly the sky is not falling yet so chill out
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from justme2. Show justme2's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    I actually expect this defense to be pretty good. I think by game 5 or 6 they will be gelling quite necely. First few games will yeild some very bad plays. But all in all I think the performance will be of good caliber..
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Our defense is going to destroy people... there I said it.

    We may need a little more inside linebacker depth but we are set up to shut people down once they gel.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Condor57. Show Condor57's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    I agree with justme2's assessment.   We have the core players in place and some new faces just learning the Patriot Way.  It will take time, so perhaps the O has to put up more points early on in the season to cover up any defensive weaknesses.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Being very honest about this season:
    I'm a lifelong Pats fan, and putting my bias aside.... I don't think this team is prepared to win this season via the "we scored more points than the other team" tactic. You need your defense to show up on game day.
    Posted by mjxg


    I've been examining this from every possible angle and I have yet to come up with a scenario in which the Pats can win via the "we scored fewer points than the other team" tactic.

    It's possible that I'm missing something fairly obvious here, but I think scoring more points is the only way.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    My take?

    DL: Looks good, with Seymour and Wilfork primed for big years due to impending free agency.  A lot of depth.  Will Seymour be asked to rush the passer more this year?   Look pretty good against the run.     

    DB: Some new names, overall depth and talent better than last year.  Meriweather looks like he could emerge.  I like the Bodden and Springs pickups.  Too early to say Wheatley is a bust.  Butler and Chung will contribute. 

    LB:  Haven't seen much from Crable (hurt) or Burgess (limited to pass rush).  Mayo and Thomas are very good.  Everone else -- and I hate this term -- JAGS.  Woods and Banta-Cain lead the JAGS.  Enough talent if there are no injuries, but still don't see where the pass rush comes from. 
     
    This defense could take time to solidify, but there is enough talent to generate a respectable effort week to week.       
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonnyCorlione. Show SonnyCorlione's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    The problem is the team is too deep in Defensive Tackles but I think they can still put together a solid defense once everyone has had a chance to adapt to a 4/3...which isn't an overnight job.

    Putting AD at DE is the best thing we could do.  Our starting depth chart SHOULD look like this.

    5DE: AD, Green
    1NT: Wilfork, Brace
    3DT: Seymour, Warren, Wright
    7DE: Burgess, TBC

    The issue here is 'backers - there aren't enough left...

    SLB: Woods, Crable
    MLB: Mayo (will need to play all the time), Lenon
    WLB: Guyton, Alexander
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Our D will struggle the 1st quarter of the year but by seasons end we will be a top 5 D. But no way 14-2 with our schedule. 12-4 is my guess.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Controlled Offense...not quick strike like 2007.. Defense?..meh.

    I do not want to see 4-wide shotgun when first and goal on the 5!!!!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenwayfaith. Show Fenwayfaith's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Honesty doesn't equal right or honesty doesn't equal correct.  Just because we have a prolific offense doesn't mean the defense won't be as equal to the task.  We've made changes, gotten younger & faster on D, d-line being the strength, 2 new corners, & some young LB's.  3 preseason games clearly shouldn't allow anyone to make a judgement.  Give it a chance.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from noncallcity. Show noncallcity's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    The doubters need to be called out when the D shows up...and they'll be chasing the bandwagon. When did the season begin, anyway?
    Too deep at d tackle? The rush will come from fresh legs in the d-line, blitzing and a much-improved outside rush. AT finally gets his sacks because of pressure up the middle as we saw in preseason. Thomas, Burgess and TBC alone account for 10+ sacks if the d-line plays like we expect. If Crable plays, it's 12+ because our coverage will be good. I saw lots of closing speed and we have hitters again. These are not big if's. I think the d, esp. the d-backs to step up because they know better than we do what it'll take.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    This discussion is ridiculous, the season hasn't even started and were already making judgements about how poor this defense will be.  First off, BB isn't going to show anyone anything during the preseason.  He's probably experimenting a bit with players to see how they react in situations.  The D will be younger and faster.  And as much as I've enjoyed Vrabel and Bruschi throughout the years, they were slowing this defense down bigtime.  I like what I've seen with Butler and I can't wait to see how much speed the D will have with the younger guys.  Burgess was a great pickup and Mayo should shine in his second season.  This D is only going to improve as the season progresses, and considering how powerful the offense should be, they should have plenty of fresh legs when teams are go ing to pass in the 4th quarter.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    Being honest?

    The defense is putting three top-of-second-round rookies on the field, Butler, Chung and Brace.  In addition, the two cornerbacks are new.  This will guarantee some broken defenses in the first six games, also a little hesitation in the first six games.  That will vanish by December.  The backfield is about 20th in the league now and will become a 10th in the league by December.

    Guyton, Pierre Woods and possibly Crable are not too experienced and not too proven.  They also might be not too good.  Burgess is not up to speed at all.  We'll give them 15th in the league right now on the strength of Mayo and Adalius Thomas, heading up to 10th.  With Bruschi around they might not be heading upwards.

    The D-line, they are simply first in the league against the run, maybe 10th against the pass, but they have enough pass-eating linebackers behind them to bring that number up for the whole D.

    The Patriots are simply first in the league in offense, and none are second.  This week we saw Brady and Moss at work without Wes Welker and without Julian Edelman.  Still embarrassing for the other guys.  First in QB decisions at the line, roughly first in WRs.  The new WRs will get a little better in 6 games.

    The running game gets only maybe a 20th in the league this year.  The Patriots love screens, bubble screens and draw plays because they're just like running plays, except the receiver doesn't have to deal with any linemen in front of him.  So in this case, a mediocre running game doesn't count for too much.

    The line is top 5 in pass protection, maybe 20th in run blocking.  The tight ends are about 20th in the league.

    The kicker is pretty much first in the league on kickoffs, I'll listen to arguments that he's second or third, and he's top five in field goal accuracy.  The long snapper might be 10th in the league right now, but he could get better.  The return teams are at least 10th in the league.   They broke one just a week ago.

    Overall, the team is quite healthy, top 5 in the NFL, with depth.

    Pats are first in the NFL in coaching and preparation.  BB constantly resets the offensive line to fire off or drop back, constantly changes the defense to 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 1-6, one of the safeties morphs into a linebacker, a lineman morphs into a fullback or a third tight end...  Moreover, BB has a large stable of uniquely skilled players now, and opposing coaches have to prepare for every eventuality.  If a team like Indianapolis comes out with a tremendous pass defense, BB will run at them 15 times in a row.  If a team like Minnesota has an iron defensive line, BB will pass without running once over the entire first half until they decide to adjust.  Brady runs a tricky hurry-up offense that wastes opponents' timeouts.  Just watch Edelman stick in a wildcat play sometime.  Then BB rehearses all sorts of situation maneuvers like hiking the ball out of the endzone to give the opponents 2 points when the Pats are 3 points ahead.  Finally there's this parade of extra draft choices, four second rounders and two third rounders this year, three second rounders lined up for next year.  Swimming lessons for sharks.  The picking of Seymour, Ty Warren, Wilfork, Logan Mankins, Mayo, Brady, Cassel is quite sharp.  In sum, I've never seen anyone come close to BB's management ability.

    So let's be honest.  The Patriots are going to lose a couple of games this season.  With any luck one of the losses won't be in the Super Bowl.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapatsrule58. Show dapatsrule58's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    19-0!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Re: Being very honest about this season:
    The problem is the team is too deep in Defensive Tackles but I think they can still put together a solid defense once everyone has had a chance to adapt to a 4/3...which isn't an overnight job. Putting AD at DE is the best thing we could do.  Our starting depth chart SHOULD look like this. 5DE: AD, Green 1NT: Wilfork, Brace 3DT: Seymour, Warren, Wright 7DE: Burgess, TBC The issue here is 'backers - there aren't enough left... SLB: Woods, Crable MLB: Mayo (will need to play all the time), Lenon WLB: Guyton, Alexander
    Posted by SonnyCorlione


    Interesting post.  All of our D-Linemen (except for Burgess) fit the profile of DT more than DE, and we don't have enough linebackers who can play DE (except for Thomas and TBC).  But Thomas's best year was when he played 4-3 SLB in Baltimore, so putting him at DE might not utilize his strengths in the best way.  Well at least Burgess is a quality DE, I'm sure BB can think of something for the other side. 

    BTW, our running game is not 20th in the league (responding to another post).  We had the 5th best running game last year when Matt freaking Cassel was our quarterback and nobody feared the pass.  Our running game should be elite this year with teams focused entirely on the pass.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Re: Being very honest about this season:
    In Response to Re: Being very honest about this season : Interesting post.  All of our D-Linemen (except for Burgess) fit the profile of DT more than DE, and we don't have enough linebackers who can play DE (except for Thomas and TBC).  But Thomas's best year was when he played 4-3 SLB in Baltimore, so putting him at DE might not utilize his strengths in the best way.  Well at least Burgess is a quality DE, I'm sure BB can think of something for the other side.  BTW, our running game is not 20th in the league (responding to another post).  We had the 5th best running game last year when Matt freaking Cassel was our quarterback and nobody feared the pass.  Our running game should be elite this year with teams focused entirely on the pass.
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Great point about the running game, We will be consistent and fresh in the run all year.

    I disagree about the d-line. What does too many DT's really mean? Is that even possible? Just because guys like Seymour and Warren can play DT and play it well does not mean they are not great DE's. With Seymour(top 5 DE's in the game) Warren(top 10-12 DE's) and a pass rushing specialist like Jarvis Green, as well as multiple olb's playing DE(Thomas,Burgess,Woods can rush passer from end,TBC and Crable if he ever plays) I don't understand the point.

    The reason we could not get sacks last year has little to do with the D-Line and lots to do with the fact that Harrison, was out and our corners needed too much help. You cannot blitz if corners get burned. Plus with AT,Woods,Crable out and Vrabel declining we had little presence.(2008)

    This defense is upgraded in every way(except maybe playoff experience) from last year. We will be a top 10 D again!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Irkillendem. Show Irkillendem's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    you can't blame a sketicism for this years defense when just a year ago we had that terrible secondary. I think it'll be better this year hopefully, Wilhite's pick 6 last game was promising so I think it will be just fine.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Re: Being very honest about this season:
    you can't blame a sketicism for this years defense when just a year ago we had that terrible secondary. I think it'll be better this year hopefully, Wilhite's pick 6 last game was promising so I think it will be just fine.
    Posted by Irkillendem


    Well said, even though Wilhite's pick was against the 10th string QB lol.  Your point is spot on though.  All the talk about having no fear, who are we to question BB, we don't know enough as fans, yada yada yada...  It's as if some have forgotten about last year.  Our pass D stunk last year.  Our free agent DB acquisitions (O'Neal, Fernando) stunk up the joint.  We are only a season removed from that yet anyone that expresses concern is looked upon like a pig looking at a wristwatch.  We do have the best coach in the NFL but the guy is still human.  He isn't going to get everything perfect.  Last year the D and some of our FA's demonstrated that. 

    I don't believe we are doomed.  I think our O will need to carry us for the first part of the season, but then our D will start to gel.  A lot of fans will panic for the first handful of games.  I think we'll be 12-4 at worst, 16-0 at best.  It all depends on how we do the first part of the season while the D builds chemistry and the new players grasp the D better.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from longhairjoe. Show longhairjoe's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Being very honest about this season:
    I'm a lifelong Pats fan, and putting my bias aside.... I don't think this team is prepared to win this season via the "we scored more points than the other team" tactic. You need your defense to show up on game day.
    Posted by mjxg


    I THINK THE OFFENSE WILL GIVE A BIG CUSHION FOR THE DEFENSE TO DEVELOP.
    Pats still have quite a few quality players on defense and some new players to fill the void once they get acclimated with the program. I think they just need time to gel.
    I'm not expecting the defense to be killing anybody in the first few games,
    just play a solid game, stop the run, make the tackle, and don't give up the big play. I think once Burgess gets comfortable in his role he's going to  be playing at the level like he did back in 2005, 2006
    It's going to be fine, IN BILL WE TRUST.
    Sounds like to the tune of 19-0
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from joe81b. Show joe81b's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    In Response to Re: Being very honest about this season:
    In Response to Being very honest about this season : I've been examining this from every possible angle and I have yet to come up with a scenario in which the Pats can win via the "we scored fewer points than the other team" tactic. It's possible that I'm missing something fairly obvious here, but I think scoring more points is the only way.
    Posted by prairiemike


    Haha gotta agree with you Mike.  Im in favor of winning games by scoring more than the opposition.  Whats the alternative, we go 0-0-16 and hope the rest of the division is 7-9 or worse?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3420625. Show user_3420625's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    I think we're somewhere between 12 and 15 wins.  Not quite as good as '07 because Brady will surely have lost something or have to sit out a game or two; and because the D is younger (although better, IMHO) and is likely to have a bad game or two.

    The strength of our D is the line, and regardless of the fact that the passing game has become so prolific in the league, the game starts in the trenches.  I disagree about the "too many DT's" comment completely and utterly for three reasons.  First, Green and Seymour are essentially DE-quickness with DT or almost-DT size.  That's not a bad thing.  Second, we have some big LB's like Burgess, TBC, and AT, that can come in as blitz rushers and crush halfback blocks.  But third and most importantly is our coach.  Too much size up front might be a problem for some other team, but having an absolutely ludicrously stacked position is the kind of stuff that BB dreams about.  I could see anything from Seymour dropping in coverage on big TEs to a dime line with Pryor and Wilfork up front that is impossible to run on.  I can't wait.

    The secondary will give up some big plays, but it will make a lot more big plays this year than since Asante left.  The secondary is tough to call with what we've seen, but it is young and fast, and there is even some height.  I think Chung will become a starter by game 6, and that will send Meriweather to FS, and that will be dynamic.  We also have depth, especially at CB, which is all-important in keeping these guys fresh when they get little injuries so they won't turn into big injuries.

    The LBs are a work in progress.  On the one hand, Mayo and AT are among the top 5 1-2 LB punches in the league.  On the other hand, the weak side is dubious, and the 3-4 line scares me.  I'm not sold on Crable's coverage skills, I think Guyton will be a dependable WAG.  But Woods just can't put it together; he has a good physical game but he has no field sense - he just misses big plays all the time.  BB called Rosie Colvin before he let Alexander start.  TBC and Burgess seem to be one-dimensional.  Still, BB usually has one of the three field levels that is just not all there - remember the Troy-Brown-as-CB years? - and he always ranks in the top 10 defenses.

    Our offense is nasty, but I just can't imagine them being as good as '07.  Other teams have learned, and I just have a bad feeling that Welker or Moss is going to have some injury troubles this year - three years healthy in a row for both of them is too much to expect.  Baker was a good addition, and I think our TEs are really quite good this year.  Baker can catch, Watson is not a 1st round talent but he is a quality #2 TE, a good blocker, and he can catch in the red zone.  Thomas is showing some tantalizing versatility out of the backfield, kind of a bigger version of Kevin Faulk?  I have to think either Galloway or Lewis will stick, and Edelman is the best insurance policy on Wes Welker we could hope for.

    The O line is getting older, so it's good to have a guy like Vollmer to spell Light.  Letting go of Hochstein was ballsy, but we have a logjam of 4 guys who want that backup interior spot - again, I'll play the odds one of them has to at least be a reliable backup, and possibly a starter when Neal gets injured in Week 4.

    The backfield will be our secret weapon.  We can run 150 yds in any given game if we want to.  If we keep 5 RBs, we can lose any two, or let them stay healthy by sitting games with minor injuries, and be almost unaffected.  We have 3 bruising backs to soften up big lines and serve as extra blockers for play action.  

    Only the best 5-6 coached teams can plan for half of what we can throw at them every game; and even better we can change it completely at half time.  We can throw 40 times in one game, then run 40 time the next game.  We can flood the mid level with TE's, with Welker-Edelman double slots, or with Maroney, Morris, and Faulk popping up through the line.  We can go vertical to Moss or use him as a decoy and get man coverage for Galloway or Lewis.  We can put 3 in the backfield, pull with Mankins, and have 3 blockers opening a hole for BJGE.  Outstanding.

    Special teams also looks strong, depending on how many specialists we manage to keep.  I think our castoffs out of training camp will be reserves for 20 teams in the league, but ST specialists have the best chance of clearing onto the practice team.  We have probably the best placekicker in football.  Our punter is average to above average.  We have depth at the return positions.  We have the best QB, maybe ever.  Bring it on.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Being very honest about this season

    I'm still going to stick with my 13-3 prediction. The O won't be better than 2007, but they will still score over 500 points this season.  The D will start out ok but improve and finish in the top 1/2 of the league by seasons end. Overall the D will rank better than last year. By seasons end this team will be playing better on both sides of the line of scrimmage and be a force in the playoffs and we should see our 4th title.


     
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