Belichick is failing this team...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sunnyinkeywest. Show sunnyinkeywest's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]I don't want to hear how great he is (was) either. This defense is HORRIBLE. Period! No debate here. I don't want to hear how the players we have now on defense are anything but average. That includes Mayo, Spikes, Chung, Arrington (and whatever other collectivve group is playing DB this week) Brace (who???) Deaderick (who???), Idehigbo..total garbage and BB is to blame 100%. Add to that the fact that he gives Brady no deep threat other than Ochostinko, refuses to get him a real running attack and makes moronic decisions (cutting Bodden on a Friday) then replaces him with NOBODY! Poor coaching, poor prep with two weeks to prepare and then when you MAY have hafls a chance at winning the game, calls for a stupid onside kick with almost 2 and a half minutes on the clock with 3 time outs and the 2 min warning. Why?? Because BB didn't even trust the crappy defense that he himself has built! ENOUGH!
    Posted by smorgan86[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]RWTK ....You have many good points .... The Pats Offense? The Steelers passed 75% of the time and controlled the clock for most of the game. The Steelers O line manhandled the Pats D line most of the time on each pass by not meeting the Pats D at the point of contact because the Pats would blow them off by sheer strength of contact, so the Steelers O line dominated instead by squaring up and backpeddling into the backfield but maintaining the blocking wall giving Rothslisburger plenty of time to read the field, and it worked. That is similar to the Shanahan O lines in Denver that were successful with Elway and Elway and Rothsburger have the speed to scramble if needed. Did'nt need to scramble at all yesterday because he had time to complete the passes. Therefore, the Pats O was not on the field very long for the Steeler Game as Pitts was moving the ball at will and controlling the clock? = fewer points for Pats!  Brady and offense had little to do with that loss. Ultimately it all falls back on Belichick. Belichick was outcoached!!! Sure the Pats D only allowed 6 points in 2nd half but that was fine with the Steelers controlling the clock with a lead. OUTCOACHED, King!!! Like jayshizzle and a few others are saying lately BB decisions as of late are suspicious, Sounds like he at least needs a 'bench coach'. Romeo and Charlie for example? I do appreciate your fine contributions here ...with much amusement at times.
    Posted by palookaski[/QUOTE]

    Palookaski the Pats O line had just as many chances to move the ball and they didn't.  Steelers scored in 1st possession and Pats 3 and out again and the Steelers ran out the clock for the period.  That was not only the Ds fault.  This offense is so overrated, I can't believe how many Pats fans are living in such an illusion.

    Brady seemingly panics when he gets behind early which he did Sunday.  So is it just  Brady, The OC, BB or all involved.  

    I am tired of everyone thinking this offense is awesome.  What matters offensively is what you do in the playoffs.  Teams play tougher, lower scores, and finesse teams offenses usually go nowhere.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    I'm just going to lay out some facts here. Take them any way you wish.

    The Patriots have 53 men on the active roster, plus players on IR and players on the practice squad.

    Of the current group of players with the Patriots falling into those three categories, 31 of them were either drafted or added as undrafted rookie free agents in the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 drafts.

    The team is currently 5-2.

    You folks can draw your own conclusion from these facts.
     
    My conclusion is that BB the GM is still pretty damn good, especially given the fact that among the group of the 5 most successful franchises in the NFL since the new millenium got underway (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and New England), the Patriots and Colts are the only two teams in the group to not miss the playoffs multiple times since 2004--the Colts, before this year, hadn't missed the playoffs at all since 2004 and the Patriots missed the playoffs only once since 2004 (the year Brady was hurt and they missed the playoffs on tie-breakers with an 11-5 record).

    The Packers, it certainly can be argued, are the current gold standard franchise when it comes to drafting and building a complete team. I certainly wouldn't argue too hard against that case, but it's also worth pointing out that Green Bay went 4-12 in 2005, 8-8 in 2006 and 6-10 as recently as 2008. Those three bad or mediocre seasons afforded the Packers the opportunity to draft some pretty high-impact players early in the first round--BJ Raji in 2009, at #9 overall, was the byproduct of their terrible 2008 regular season finish.

    My point is that what Belichick has done to keep the Patriots a talented and contending team every year--given that they never have any bad years which allow them to sneak into the top 10 of the draft and grab a guy like DeMarcus Ware before he's off the board--is something to be lauded, not ripped to shreds.

    OK, I get it. He's not done a great job rebuilding the defense since all of the old championship veterans went away after 2007 (really after 2008). It's a work in progress. But rebuilding the D through the draft would have been a lot easier had he snuck in a 5-11 season somewhere in the last three years, wouldn't it?
     

    Mark my words: this horrible season the Colts are having without Manning at QB is the best thing that ever could have happened to them, because next April they'll be operating in Bill Polian's sweet spot: the top five of the first round. There's no question they're coming away with a great player, maybe two, because the higher teams pick, the better their chances are of coming away with supremely talented guys.

    When you win as consistently as Belichick's Patriots, and you don't have any Green Bay 2008 or Indy 2011 types of seasons, the job of building a complete team through the draft is that much harder.

    Changing GMs in Foxboro is never going to change that fact.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]I'm just going to lay out some facts here. Take them any way you wish. The Patriots have 53 men on the active roster, plus players on IR and players on the practice squad. Of the current group of players with the Patriots falling into those three categories, 31 of them were either drafted or added as undrafted rookie free agents in the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 drafts. The team is currently 5-2. You folks can draw your own conclusion from these facts.   My conclusion is that BB the GM is still pretty damn good, especially given the fact that among the group of the 5 most successful franchises in the NFL since the new millenium got underway (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Philadelphia and New England), the Patriots and Colts are the only two teams in the group to not miss the playoffs multiple times since 2004--the Colts, before this year, hadn't missed the playoffs at all since 2004 and the Patriots missed the playoffs only once since 2004 (the year Brady was hurt and they missed the playoffs on tie-breakers with an 11-5 record). The Packers, it certainly can be argued, are the current gold standard franchise when it comes to drafting and building a complete team. I certainly wouldn't argue too hard against that case, but it's also worth pointing out that Green Bay went 4-12 in 2005, 8-8 in 2006 and 6-10 as recently as 2008. Those three bad or mediocre seasons afforded the Packers the opportunity to draft some pretty high-impact players early in the first round--BJ Raji in 2009, at #9 overall, was the byproduct of their terrible 2008 regular season finish. My point is that what Belichick has done to keep the Patriots a talented and contending team every year--given that they never have any bad years which allow them to sneak into the top 10 of the draft and grab a guy like DeMarcus Ware before he's off the board--is something to be lauded, not ripped to shreds. OK, I get it. He's not done a great job rebuilding the defense since all of the old championship veterans went away after 2007 (really after 2008). It's a work in progress. But rebuilding the D through the draft would have been a lot easier had he snuck in a 5-11 season somewhere in the last three years, wouldn't it?   Mark my words: this horrible season the Colts are having without Manning at QB is the best thing that ever could have happened to them, because next April they'll be operating in Bill Polian's sweet spot: the top five of the first round. There's no question they're coming away with a great player, maybe two, because the higher teams pick, the better their chances are of coming away with supremely talented guys. When you win as consistently as Belichick's Patriots, and you don't have any Green Bay 2008 or Indy 2011 types of seasons, the job of building a complete team through the draft is that much harder. Changing GMs in Foxboro is never going to change that fact.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    I think you make some very valid points.

    My only argument is it shouldn't take a 5-11 season or two to rebuild this team. Not with as many draft picks as we have had since 2006. We lead the league in the sheer number of opportunities to draft in rounds 1-3 since 2006. With as many chances to pick as we have had, we should have and could have cashed a few of them in to move up and draft impact players. We had the ammunition to do so.
    Maybe this would have resulted in a lesser number of picks, but the point being quality over quantity. BB it seems has favored the latter for whatever reason. It's not like he doesn't draft in round 1 as he has proved with Solder, McCourty, Mayo, Maroney, Meriweather, etc. Just looking at that list, you have 3 hits and 2 misses. Not too bad.
    So why not package some of your seconds and move up in round 1?
    Why not actually use both of your 1sts next year to grab 2 players in round 1, or move way up on the board?

    It comes down to drafting philosophy. GB is not afraid to draft in the top 10, and take risks as they did on Matthews. It seems BB is less inclined to take risks, and would rather trade out and back, then package and move up.

    The net result is we have what we have. Which is a mixed bag. I'm not saying his drafting has been all bad..not at all, we have landed some great talent, but clearly most of it is on the offensive side of the ball, especially over the past few years.

    Here's a simple piont...Last year's draft was chock full of DT/DE talent...3-4/4-3 pretty much whatever we wanted...and it extended all the way down deep into round 2. We clearly had a need for an impact DL/DE...as we walked away with 4 or 5 in FA. Why not draft a DL/DE in round 1 or 2? We had the 33rd pick...Plenty of DL/DE talent available there, yet we chose a questionable CB with a somewhat checkered injury history.....WHY? Because of VALUE? This is the part of BB I don't get...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team... : I think you make some very valid points. My only argument is it shouldn't take a 5-11 season or two to rebuild this team. Not with as many draft picks as we have had since 2006. We lead the league in the sheer number of opportunities to draft in rounds 1-3 since 2006. With as many chances to pick as we have had, we should have and could have cashed a few of them in to move up and draft impact players. We had the ammunition to do so. Maybe this would have resulted in a lesser number of picks, but the point being quality over quantity. BB it seems has favored the latter for whatever reason. It's not like he doesn't draft in round 1 as he has proved with Solder, McCourty, Mayo, Maroney, Meriweather, etc. Just looking at that list, you have 3 hits and 2 misses. Not too bad. So why not package some of your seconds and move up in round 1? Why not actually use both of your 1sts next year to grab 2 players in round 1, or move way up on the board? It comes down to drafting philosophy. GB is not afraid to draft in the top 10, and take risks as they did on Matthews. It seems BB is less inclined to take risks, and would rather trade out and back, then package and move up. The net result is we have what we have. Which is a mixed bag. I'm not saying his drafting has been all bad..not at all, we have landed some great talent, but clearly most of it is on the offensive side of the ball, especially over the past few years. Here's a simple piont...Last year's draft was chock full of DT/DE talent...3-4/4-3 pretty much whatever we wanted...and it extended all the way down deep into round 2. We clearly had a need for an impact DL/DE...as we walked away with 4 or 5 in FA. Why not draft a DL/DE in round 1 or 2? We had the 33rd pick...Plenty of DL/DE talent available there, yet we chose a questionable CB with a somewhat checkered injury history.....WHY? Because of VALUE? This is the part of BB I don't get...
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I agree with some of this, except for when you said Bill needs/or is afraid to take risks...I think he's anything but that. The part where you said they should of drafted a defensive lineman because the draft was full of them this year, is something I whole heartily agree with. This just blew me away this off season, the draft was loaded there and they played it wrong. They end up with Rasi Dawling - a guy that has a history of injuries?! This was supposed to be a pick at a very very important and valuable spot in the draft...it was ssupposed to help us and put us over the top and this is what happens? Just drafting another secondary player was puzzling in itself, we had Butler, Chung, Bodden, McCourtey, Merriweather all drafted early or signed in recent years. You take Solder (who has star potential), but Matt Light would be playing there. So really the first two rounds of this draft weren't going to help a team that needed defensive front seven help.

    I guess, in the end we can say that they're 5-2 (probably 6-2 at the end of today) and we need to be happy, but clearly this team is not elite. In my opinion that's not good enough when you have a coach and QB like ours, we truly could and should of won more Super Bowls (I know that sound ridiculous, but they are that good at those spots).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]So Bill plays now?  The coaching isn't the issue. Its the level of talent and lack of execution of the players on defense.
    Posted by Pancakespwn[/QUOTE]
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    And exactly who selected all those defensive players who do not execute and who lack talent?
     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dazeend. Show dazeend's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    He just doesn't get it.

    There is an arogance that the Patriots display that used to help them, now it is their curse.  The arrogance comes from the coach who seemingly would rather get one usuable player on the cheap than draft the good players. 

    You watch the DB's and they never turn to see where the ball is.  So, they are always beaten.   Or, they look like they are lost on the field because they play like chess pieces.

    Now we see Brady exhibiting the same arrogance.  

    Its time to move on...or better yet, put Sunday afternoons to better use.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    Belichick is failing this team?  How so?

    Is it the garbage drafting the last few years?  Is it the "one and done" playoff appearances the last few years?  Interesting that these failures have happened since he was caought CHEATING...Coincidence?

    I'm a Boston fan for all sports (except football).  It's amazing how he is still held out as some "god" when they haven't won anything in years
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    spread dont work against team that can pressure with the 4 down lineman!

    How did it work in 07'

    same team,. same philosohpy and same results.

    Stop the spread already. With 7 guys back in coverage, its not working. Brady is looking more and more like Bledsoe every week in that spread.

    And guess what? its november and Green Bay is still chucking it around, scoring 45 points and our offense has sputtered when we are supposed to be surging.

    and so far as G.B's defense, when you score alot of points fast, its a shootout so the other team can score a lot too, and San Diego also has a great offense.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Belichick is failing this team... : I don't think to many of here thought Haynesworth was an upgrade.  None of us had the luxury of working Bodden and seeing that he had lost a big step.  None of us were happy about jettisoning both Sanders AND Merriweather right beforee the games began.  And now tossing aside Bodden on a Friday to replace him with a flunky...without even addressing the teammates before the press started asking them questions!!!! These were arrongantly stupid moves. (Note the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid"...BB should have known better.)
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    the above is called a hindsight post.  Its also called something that can be said on this board but its two words that start with B and S. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonguylost. Show bostonguylost's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    Watching the Patriots defense is like knowing a train wreck is going to happen and being powerlesstostop it and then actually watching it unfold.  Is Sergio Brown really serious when he says he was surprised he was flagged at the end?  He mugged the receiver!  When a Patriots defensive back actually turns around and tries to defend a pass he is LOOKING at, I will be VERY surprised.  Back to the QB defense is NOT working!  It's time for Bill Belicheck to start drafting QUALITY and not QUANTITY on the defensive side of the ball.  Or maybe it's just time for him to stop shopping for the ingredients because it's obvious to anyone that what he is cooking on defense is not working.  This defense SUCKS!  Plain and simple.  I don't think it's all the players faults.  You don't see any other defense in football get toasted on a regular basis like theirs.  Are we the only team that has bad players on defense?  It seems like our receivers are always covered and when the opposing QB throws downfield there isn't a Parriot in sight.  THIS SUCKS BILL B!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    I think BB is the main reason this team is struggling and it's not his coaching its his EGO.  We all know the pats were at their best when they had Weiss, Romeo, and Pioli along with BB.

    There is just no way he can be the de facto Offensive and Defensive Co-ordinater, GM and Coach. Please don't tell me there are actually other people in those roles because we all know they are merely figure-heads and BB is running the show.  No one can do all this.

    They need to be a "team" in the front office and coaching staff as well as a "team" on the field.  He needs to bring in some serious legit help and soon.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Belichick is failing this team...

    BB's legacy is already cemented. He won three super bowls, tying him with Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh, and putting him one behind Chuck Knoll, who won 4. That should just be taken as a given in any discussion, and all the nonesense about spygate etc. is just noise. No one with any knowledge of the game doubts for one second that for a long stretch he was the man in the NFL. The question isn't is he a great coach - he is, the question is is one man capable of being a great coach/gm/offensive coordinator/and defensive coordinator at the same time. Starting with the devastating super bowl loss to the Giants, there's been increasing frustration around these parts for several reasons. One, everyone knows our time with Brady is limited and eventually he's going to get old, and when he does he'll probably get old fast. Two, BB seems strangely reluctant to hire legit coordinators and/or get a personnel guy in there to replace Pioli. Maybe he got aggravated with all of his people leaving (Weiss; Crennel; Piloli; Mangini; McDaniels et al), but it just seems odd that an upper echelon team that seemingly would need MORE help trying to stay on top seems more and more to be a one man show. Three, the draft is a crapshoot. Everyone knows that. But how can a fan not be frustrated when obviously talented players are continuously passed over for a collection of lesser players via pick packaging, moving down in the draft, who rarely pan out. We all understand not drafting for need, but when you have glaring needs for multiple years (CB; DEs; OLBs) and can't seem to address those needs, and continuously pass over guys who turn out to be quality starters in the NFL, and you continue to field inferior players, it's impossible not to be critical. At times it really does seem like when it comes to player personnel decisions BB is a little too cute for his own good... Frankly, what's perhaps most troubling is that for the first time during the BB regime, the Patriots are getting outcoached. Not once, but repeatedly, and obviously. Yes, it's a league of parity, and yes, other teams have mirroed the Pats in their approach, and yes they have studied and prepared for their appraoch, but a great team program adjusts and stays ahead of the curve, right? There are just no more halftime adjustments. The advantage that once seemed so apparent now seems to have disappeared. Doesn't mean BB is a bad coach, and overall the organization has done a fanatstic job of staying competitve year to year, but this has certainly been a bad stretch. And if anyone, even the most die hard Pats fan, has any doubts, that defense is really bad. Forget the numbers, which are atrocious, because to some extent the Pats have always had that bend but don't break philosophy, but the DBs on the current roster cannot cover anyone, no one can get to the quarterback, and there are stretches when the tackling is awful. Great job releasing Haynesworth. Two bad the team has no decent DBs because Arrington and Sergio Brown should both go too. As should Ochocinco, who is completely lost, and completely without confidence. makes no sense to dump him financially, but if anything he's a distraction at this point. Guyton couldn't cover a guard, let alone a running back or wide receiver. All of that wouldn't be so bad is the offense hadn't of gone into a tail spin. Not a lot of creativity. Times when it semed like Edelman (recent problems notwithstanding), Woodhead (when healthy), and Price could have been utilized a bit. Just feels like when the defenses got better there wasn't enough adjustments being made to counteract what was being taken away. 
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share