Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]  You've got a lot of nerve ...  YES I DO.  Laughing

     

    FUNNY THAT YOU COULDN'T FIGURE THAT OUT FROM YOUR OWN WORDS.  TP, I AM CONCERNED THAT YOU COULDN'T FIND YOUR SHADOW ON A CLOUDLESS DAY.   

     



    RESPONSE: Perhaps not. But I sure as heck have verbally embarrassed and verbally beaten the tar out of you on this forum for the past 8 years...LOL!!!!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]


    just like you've done to pcm on this thread.  Stick with those Stuart Smally affirmations, TP. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I'll respond to you all in kind...

    Babe I was directing my last post at Tex not you, though I do think your insistence on this issue and ignoring the basic facts of it all, instead insisting I'm a "homer" that's why I can't see straight is illogical considering Belichick has drafted more All Pro and Pro Bowl players than any other GM during his tenure, not to mention the multitude of trades that garnered us another 1st round or numerous extra picks, additions to the team via free agency, more specifically rookie free agents shows unequivocally that Bill Belichick has one of, if not the best eye for talent in football as well as cap managment.  

     




    That's good wozzy, because you are too good of a fan for me to want us to be at each other's throats again.

    As you may recall, I haven't said he is a poor GM, ever. But he is nothing special in that regard from what I can see. Far too many high round disasters from him to call him anything much more than just another guy.

    One has to consider that BB as GM has had a couple of huge advantage over the years over every other GM in the game. He has had the best HC and the best QB all along.

    Never having to draft for that franchise QB and knowing your HC is going to get more out of what you do provide than anybody else is a huge advantage for GM.

    So it is only logical that if the HC is the best, and the QB is the best then somehow the rest of the team isn't among the best. And the GM is the only one responsible for what the rest of the team is.

    Otherwise why haven't we won a SB for 8 years? Either you go with what I claim, you go Rusty mode and blame Brady, or you simply say "it's just hard to win a SB".

    I believe an honest assessment of the actual "rest of the team" is where the problem lies in this. I see this not only on a player by player basis, but also in an honest look at what other teams might accomplish if they had BB and Brady.

    This is the reason I call you a homer. Because I feel you have a bias when evaluating each individual and that blurs the final analysis. And I have also said there is nothing wrong with being a homer. It's the most natural thing in the world, and is a hallmark of a great fan.

    But for me, I want to know why we are falling short. In this I'm more like a coach than a fan I guess. Maybe it's because of my career. That has always been about "finding the problem". If somebody can offer me convincing evidence that the problem lies elsewhere than BB the GM, I will welcome it. But I haven't seen any such thing so far.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

      You've got a lot of nerve ...  YES I DO.  Laughing

     

     

    FUNNY THAT YOU COULDN'T FIGURE THAT OUT FROM YOUR OWN WORDS.  TP, I AM CONCERNED THAT YOU COULDN'T FIND YOUR SHADOW ON A CLOUDLESS DAY.   

     

     



    RESPONSE: Perhaps not. But I sure as heck have verbally embarrassed and verbally beaten the tar out of you on this forum for the past 8 years...LOL!!!!

     

     

     

     

     



     




    just like you've done to pcm on this thread.  Stick with those Stuart Smally affirmations, TP. 



    You're nothing but a little Colts troll vulture. You swoop in on arguments between fans and try to gain favor by taking a side. And that seems to work temporarily with those desperately looking for support to bolster their flawed point of view. But in the end even they who you help will turn on you, because you are nothing but a lying little Colts troll with no honorable values.

    The situation where he has painted himself into a corner has gotten so desperate and pathetic for Rusty at this point that he actually is complimentary to you more often than not. A child could see through your pathetic little game.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to UD6's comment:



    RESPONSE: Perhaps not. But I sure as heck have verbally embarrassed and verbally beaten the tar out of you on this forum for the past 8 years...LOL!!!!

     

     



    just like you've done to pcm on this thread.  Stick with those Stuart Smally affirmations, TP. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    RESPONSE: Apparently, pcm learned from you well. He tried misdirecting the discussion, refused to answer my points...and then, in the end, ran away.

         You know that you have credibility issues here. So, from time to time, you say things that you think are popular with most posters, to try to regain some footing. But, in the end, your true colors always show.

         For example, I'm still waiting for you to explain your claim that the "Patriot Way" is to blame for the AH situation, when you had previously acknowledged that BB and Mr. Kraft were blameless?

         I'm sure you recall me asking you this question on that thread which, incidently, you started. Of course, in typical, cowardly Doggie-doo fashion, you refused to answer...and ran off. Would you care to enlighten us now? 

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    You'd think more than a few weeks of Training Camp would pass before you'd make this judgement?

     



         Pass judgment on what? I'm not concerned with the Pats' offense, despite the loss of AH to the penal system, Welker through free agency, and Gronk, due to injury. Some how, some way, Brady and BB will find a way to put up plenty of points. The main concern on this team remains it's defense...particularly pass defense.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

         SUMMARY: In closing, BB has made allocated 11 draft choices to improve the secondary, over the past 8 years:

    24th overall in 2007 (Meriweather), 62nd (Wheatley) and 129th (Wilhite) in 2008, 34th (Chung) and 41st (Butler) in 2009, 27th (McCourty) in 2010, 33rd (Dowling) in 2011, 48th (Wilson) and 227th (Denard) in 2012, 83rd (Ryan) and 91st (Harmon) in 2013.

         Of these 11, 10 were top 100 picks...four of which, for all intents and purposes,  were low #1 picks. Of these 10 top 100 picks, only McCourty remains, with Wilson, Ryan and Harmon all seemingly treading water to make the team.

         Though BB is a greatest coach of all-time and has managed to get by, and even thrive with marginal secondary talent during the regular...his secondary has repeatedly been exposed in the play-offs.

         Does anybody care to argue this point??

      

            

     

     



    Yes I will argue a part of this. It is meaningless to argue about draft OR FA or trades independent of each other. For example if a trade is made where you get a player and give a draft pick the two are necessarily intertwined. If you pick up some FA before the draft (name brands or core type players or even depth type players) it will impact what you do in the draft and so they are necessarliy interwined.

    RESPONSE: Agreed, but not in the way you're presenting it. Every failed high draft pick that was spent to shore up a position impacts the salary cap, trades, and free agency. For example, look at the hoops BB has jumped through trying to rebuild his secondary.

         When Asante Samuel left through free agency for Philly in March of 2008, BB tried replacing him by spending his 62nd and 129th overall picks in the 2008 draft on CBs Terrence Wheatly and Jonathan Wilhite. When those two didn't pan out, BB brought in veteran Leigh Bodden in 2009...and drafted CB Darius Butler, with his 41st overall pick in the 2009 draft.

         So...in trying to replace Samuel, in two years BB spent two second round picks, a 4th round pick, and eventually allocated a chunk of cap space to sign Bodden. And, because those guys didn't work out, BB used his #1 draft choice in 2010 to bring in Devin McCourty.

         When McCourty didn't cut it at CB, he was moved to FS, and the Pats made the Talib trade, costing them a 4th round pick this past year.       

    So when you list a bunch of draft picks who are no longer here you overlook other changes to the roster. It is the final roster IN TOTAL that is what is important. Otherwise you could say something as stuipid as the opening post in this thread which was tro criticise THIRD ROUND picks as if somehow your ability in each round is truly independent and separately and meaningfully evaluated (just because you can evaluate past performance round by round does make that evaluation MEANINGFUL).

    RESPONSE: Those changes in the roster you spoke of above were the result of the above referenced failed draft choices. Had those drafted players worked out, the resources spent to continue to try to fill the holes in the secondary could have been allocated to other areas of need on the team.  

    So you need to inlcude players like Talib, like Dennard, like McCourty, like Gregory (and here for example it is the height of foolish to evaluate as 0 or 10... most players end up somewhere between the two and so you generally cannot say only GREAT or HORRIBLE), like A Wilson, etc.

    RESPONSE: I have, as indicated above. As far as rating players go, it was clear the minute that Aqib Talib started playing for the Pats that he was their best CB.  

    And you cannot judge to quickly a player who is a rookie or only a 1 or 2 year. The more years the more you can have a concrete judgment. 1 year is something but not generally definitive. 2 years starts to become meaningful. ANd there are occasionally players that take 3-5 years to "get it". Not great that it takes so long but it does happen.

    RESPONSE: I certainly can. It's my opinion. I'm not saying that I'm always right, but, I've been more right than not. For example, I criticized the selection of Patrick Chung  from the get go, because I had concerns that he couldn't cover. After watching him play in his rookie season, my concerns were, unfortunately, confirmed.

         I criticized the selections of Terrence Wheatly in 2008 and Ras-I Dowling in 2011 because of their propensity to get hurt in college...and because, in the case of Wheatley, I couldn't understand why the Pats spent a 2nd round pick on a short CB, trying to play with a surgically inserted metal rod in his wrist.

         Finally, my criticisms of BB using a mid-second rounder to select Tavon Wilson in 2012, and BB using the 91st overall pick this year to select Duron Harmon, are no secret in these parts...LOL!! My criticisms of these players are due to the fact that I felt that both of them were grossly overdrafted. In other words, neither of these players had the skills or the track record in college to justify them being selected as high as they were.     

         To this day...I hope that Ras-I can some day climb out of bed without tweaking his hamstring, and that Wilson and Harmon both become solid DBs. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any evidence of it, yet. 

    So my point is that your approach (not everything you say) is way too fantasy footballish.Not the sort of approach that generates rosters that perform as a BB roster does.

    RESPONSE: I have no idea where you came up with that idea.

    Guys like Nink for example are not favorites of fantasy fans (and I do think those fans, of which there are a whole lot and some of them here, are not really football fans but fantasy fans) but are the kind of blue collar players coaches love. They don't love them to the point of not wanting big time playmakers but coaches generally appreciate solid, well coached, tough players who can fulfill their roles and are tough good team players. They allow and even help the more dynamic players make plays. So there play is actually key if not highlight reel ready.

    RESPONSE: Ask the guys who play Fantasy Football here if I'm a fan, or a participant in that activity...LOL!!  

    Do I agree that the secondary has had its problems? Of course, I am not blind. Are there still issues and questions there? Yes. DO we need more depth? Yes. AM I satisfied with the secondary? No. BUT I think it is getting better. McCourty seems to be a good S. Talib seems to be a good CB. Dennard seems to be a decent or even good CB (with some limitations). Arrington is a reasonable role player though not suited to certain key roles. I do not know how well either Wilson or Gregory wil be or the new rookies but I expect A Wilson to add value in some roles, not in others for which he is not suited.

    RESPONSE: How many more high draft picks must be wasted, before we come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the Patriots' system of evaluating college talent? As I pointed out in my previous post, there's already been a ton of high draft choices spent in attempting to fix the secondary...and it still isn't fixed! In fact, it was so bad last year that the Pats had to roll dice on a character concern, Aqib Talib!   

    I think a pass rush does raise the effectiveness of the entire secondary and so improvement there will make a very significant difference - ESPECIALLY IF THE PASS RUSH IS EFFECTIVE IN THE PLAYOFFS (AND SB).

    RESPONSE: Agreed. One has to wonder just how good the Pats could have been over the past few years if, instead of having to allocate so many high draft choices in an yearly attempt to fix the secondary, they spent those picks instead on the DL, and on pass-rushing prospects? Selections of Meriweather (24th in 2007), Wheatley (62nd in 2008), Wilhite (129th in 2008), Chung (34th in 2009), Butler (41st in 2009), Dowling (33rd in 2011), and Wilson (48th in 2012) haven't worked out, and have cost the Pats more assets, in terms of draft choices and cap space.   

    I do not think it is meaningful to deliver a concrete evaluation on T WIlson or any rookie at this point. The coaches have to because they need to make roster and depth chart decisions. But from the fans any evaluation on someone who has not had time to learn and develop in the NFL is opinion (and please withold fantasy football type opinions, the real world is not fantasy, it is real) and nothing more.

    RESPONSE: Sir...As I have demonstrated above, I deal in facts, and reality. The botton line is that the Pats' system for evaluating college talent has failed...and  don't see it getting better. Perhaps BB needs to hire a draft consultant, and/or their scouting department needs to be revamped. 

         But, don't take my word for it. The highly respected Mike Reiss has suggested the very same thing.

         It is the homers, not I, that deal in hope and fantasy.    

    [/QUOTE]

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I'm afraid I can't continue to argue with these moaning nancies, maybe they need to up their meds or change their tampons.

    Hey jackholes, we're talking about the winningest team in the NFL here, not the Browns, not the Bengals.  Get a grip.

    RESPONSE: Typical homer refrain..."We got the best regular season record in the past decade...and anyone who dares to complain because we (meaning the Patriots, to whom the homers attach themselves by referring to the Pats as "we") haven't won a SB are "jackholes", "idiots", "twits", "spoiled fans"...fill in the blank.

    The truth of the matter is that fans who complain are really the true fans of the team...not the cheeleading homers. What's wrong with asking why the Patriots have failed to win another championship since 2006? What's wrong with wanting to see some change, after seeing the Patriots blowing a 21-6 lead in the AFC title game against the hated Horsefaces in 2006...squandering a chance at immortality because their defense couldn't stop Eli Manning and company from going 83 yards on their "D" in the final minutes of SB 42 in 2007...getting humiliated on their home field by the Baltimore Buzzards in 2009...getting embarrassed on their home field by, of all people, QB Mark Sanchez and the NY Jets, in 2010, losing another SB in 2011 because their defense again couldn't stop Eli Manning and company in the closing minutes of 2011...and being outplayed for the third straight time by the Buzzards in the play-offs again, in 2012??

         Do we see a pattern here? The pattern is that the Patriots have repeatedly failed to close out games in the play-offs...primarily due to poor defensive play. I want to see that changed! Don't you?? Or, are you happy seeing your team repeatedly choking and being playoff fodder to the likes of the Horsefaced Brothers, and Ravens? The reason for the playoff failures appears primarily due to poor defensive play. Because BB has drafted poorly from 2006-present, it's still a problem.

         Folks...can we all agree that poor pass defense is the main reason why the Pats have failed to win it all, since 2005? 

         Here's a look at the draft choices he's made to upgrade the "D", since 2006:

    1.) 2006: the first player drafted to help the "D" was Jeremy Mincey, the 191st overall pick that year. Mincey was released...catching on with the Jags, where he's had a modest amount of success as a pass-rusher;

    2.) 2007: BB moved to strengthen his "D" drawing from "The U" and drafting FS Brandon Meriweather with the 24th overall pick, and DT Kareem Brown, at #127. Brown was a complete bust...while the vastly overated Meriweather amazingly earned pro-bowl acclaim for a couple of years, before BB released him. I have never seen a pro-bowl caliber player drop off the face of the earth the way Meriweather did, without having injury issues.

    3.) 2008: BB again went defense. He scored with 10th overall pick, ILB Jerod Mayo. But, then failed miserably on damaged goods CB Terrence Wheatley at #62, OLB Shawn "Betty Grable" Crable at #78, and CB Johnathan Wilhite, at #129.

    4.) 2009: BB again moved to improve his secondary. He selected SS Patrick Chung at #34, Ron "Back" Brace at #40, the equally forgettable CB Darius Butler, at #41, and ILB Tyrone McKenzie, at #97. Chung couldn't cover, and ultimately couldn't stay healthy. Brace and Butler couldn't play...and McKenzie ended up getting hurt and getting released. Of all of BB's poor drafts in this period...this was his worst, and the most damaging to his team.

    5.) 2010: BB had a decent draft, adding CB (now FS) Devin McCourty at #27, ILB Brandon Spikes at #62, fringe OLB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and reserve DE Brandon Deaderick at #247.     

    6.) 2011: BB rolled dice on injury prone CB, Ras-I Dowling, at #33, and came up snake eyes.

    7.) 2012: BB rolled dice again by trading up to land DE Chandler Jones at 21, and LB Dont'a Hightower, at #25. Though both of these players show promise, the jury is still out. The play of these two players will likely decide the fate of the upcoming season. But then, after boldly moving up to land two potential impact players on defense, BB incredibly used his 48th overall pick on DB Tavon Wilson, and his 90th overall pick on the worthless Jake Bequette. But, BB also scored with the 227th pick, when he took a flier on talented but immature CB, Alfonzo Dennard.

    8.) 2013: Who knows what OLB Jamie Collins, taken 52nd overall, will become? Currently, he's more of an athlete than a football player...as BB is still experimenting as to what position he's best suited for. My guess is he'll have a limited impact on the "D" this season. But then, BB went Rutgers on us...drafting DB Logan Ryan (#83 overall), and safety Duron Harmon, at #91. Thus far, Ryan appears to be nothing more than special teams fodder. The Harmon pick was both silly and irresponsible...as he likely could have been signed as an undrafted free agent. Fellow Rutgers boys Michael Buchanan (OLB) and ILB Steve Beauharnais were good 7th round picks.   

         SUMMARY: In closing, BB has made allocated 11 draft choices to improve the secondary, over the past 8 years:

    24th overall in 2007 (Meriweather), 62nd (Wheatley) and 129th (Wilhite) in 2008, 34th (Chung) and 41st (Butler) in 2009, 27th (McCourty) in 2010, 33rd (Dowling) in 2011, 48th (Wilson) and 227th (Denard) in 2012, 83rd (Ryan) and 91st (Harmon) in 2013.

         Of these 11, 10 were top 100 picks...four of which, for all intents and purposes,  were low #1 picks. Of these 10 top 100 picks, only McCourty remains, with Wilson, Ryan and Harmon all seemingly treading water to make the team.

         Though BB is a greatest coach of all-time and has managed to get by, and even thrive with marginal secondary talent during the regular...his secondary has repeatedly been exposed in the play-offs.

         Does anybody care to argue this point??

        

            Hard to argue with those facts TPat!  Fire the GM and keep the Coach I say!  Tilson was terrible last night, Duron unimpressive, Logan dropped a sure INT.  Too many Rutgers alumi imo - D still looks very weak against the pass - and Eagles really do not have good QBs.  Wait until Payton, Luck, Flacco and others come to town  - those secondary boys better start makin plays or they won't be playin here!

     




     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     


    RESPONSE: Apparently, pcm learned from you well. He tried misdirecting the discussion, refused to answer my points...and then, in the end, ran away.

     


    Actually you were the one that continuously changed the topic.  You are a sad individual.  And you are the one that ran away.  I destroyed your latest "challenge" yet again.  Facts hurt.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

        

         You are dilusional. You have completely side-stepped and avoided answering my questions at every turn...turning to name calling and your trade mark rudeness, instead. I'm still waiting for you to answer my original premise. Care to finally step-up? Or, are you going to side-step, and run away, again?

         I'll be waiting: "My premise...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005...do you agree with that premise, or disagree? If you disagree, please point out the players drafted by BB in that consecutive 8 year period, from 2006-2013, that you think were hits.  

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I suggest you look back on page 13 genius.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    I suggest you look back on page 13 genius.

     



         LOL!!!! Go on...run away, son! Momma's calling you.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    LMAO @ U Tex.  You are too much of a coward to confront yet another post of mine on page 13 which completely body slammed your entire premise for the one millionth time.  You are the child here.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Instead of whining about me why don't you actually prove that BB has been a bottom tier drafter since 2006.  Why don't you post which GMs have been better in that period.  You're going to need at least 25.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Instead of whining about me why don't you actually prove that BB has been a bottom tier drafter since 2006.  Why don't you post which GMs have been better in that period.  You're going to need at least 25.



         Trying to change the topic again, I see. My premise has clearly been laid out, above. Either agree with it, argue against it...or run away.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I responded directly to your premise on page 13 Tex.  LMAO @ U.  I am not going to repost it just because you don't know how to use the internet or you have read it and realized (correctly) that you have been owned.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    I responded directly to your premise on page 13 Tex.  LMAO @ U.  I am not going to repost it just because you don't know how to use the internet or you have read it and realized (correctly) that you have been owned.

     



         Please show me specifically where, on page 13? Come on, son? Show me how wrong I am. Otherwise, go run off.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    TP, in the words of insane bolt, "you crazy", man!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    TP, in the words of insane bolt, "you crazy", man!


         You call yourself "Low-FB-IQ". Who am I to argue??  

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    TP, in the words of insane bolt, "you crazy", man!

     

     

         You call yourself "Low-FB-IQ". Who am I to argue??  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    crazy AND original too lmao

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

    Hard to argue with those facts TPat!  Fire the GM and keep the Coach I say! 

     



    At this point your bottom line appears to be obviously correct.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    "My premise...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005...

     

     



    This is without a doubt a correct statement.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...


    OK, the "BB sucks at drafting" meme has reared it's tired, old, ugly head again, and so I have to make a rare appearance here and chime in.


    1--The 2007 Pats, a veteran-laden team, made it to the Super Bowl at 18-0, as we all know, and lost a very close game for a variety of reasons, including: lousy offensive coaching (McDaniels having TB throw the ball 48 times even though he'd been getting pounded like a Pinata at a birthday party all night long, and also burying a red hot Maroney, who had rushed for more than 230 yards in their other two post-season wins); the inability of Pierre Woods to hold onto a fumble by Ahmad Bradshaw at the Giants' 20-yard line, I believe in the 3rd quarter, even though Woods landed right on top of the ball; Asante Samuel's dropped INT; and the near-sack/uncalled holding penalties/helmet catch play.

    2--Just four years later, the Patriots went back to the Super Bowl (yeah, they lost again, in another close game, with their best receiving threat playing on one leg and with multiple other bad breaks again going against them all game long). The team that went to that second Super Bowl, four years removed from the team that went 18-1, had five players---FIVE PLAYERS---on the roster that had also been there in 2007. That means 48 other, "new" players had been brought in during the intervening four years: a near-total roster rebuild.

    3--During the three seasons that preceded their return to the Super Bowl in 2011, the Patriots, while rebuilding on the fly, went 11-5 playing their backup QB all season; went 10-6 and won their division; and went 14-2 and had the best record in the NFL, a season that ended with a gaffe-filled, disappointing home playoff loss to the Jets. That same Jets team was then almost immediately lauded by certain members of the local Boston media as the "model" franchise for the modern NFL, and many of them, quite gleefully in most cases, declared the Patriots' approach to roster building to be "cheap" and out-of-date.

    4--Since 2010, that same NYJ franchise has nearly imploded and the team has missed the post-season for two consecutive seasons. Not only that, the player who made EVERYTHING they had accomplished defensively in 2009-2010 possible, Mr. Revis, had to be traded away because in their "model" approach to building a franchise, the NYJ completely mismanaged, several times, the contract negotiations with their most important player. They've also had to draft a new "QB of the future" just two years after giving their last "QB of the future" an unwarranted, huge long-term deal. Funny, but none of the local media hordes talk about the NYJ being the "model" franchise for the modern NFL anymore.

    5--BELICHICK HAS HAD DRAFT BUSTS. Yes, he most certainly has. He's had many of them. He's whiffed on a lot of DB picks, in particular, and that's hurt the overall quality of the team because, let's face it, since the Polian-Martz-Fisher, et. al. Cabal got together and rammed a Patriots-focused rule change into being 9 years ago (where was the media outcry over that bit of "cheating to gain a competitive advantage?"), stopping the pass has really become the one and only thing defenses MUST do well consistently in order to give their teams a chance to win. With that said, BB's draft record, OVERALL, since 2007, stacks up well with every other GM's in the NFL. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

    6--You wanna talk about Ozzie Newsome? Fine, let's talk about him. He's an excellent GM. He's one of the best in the business....and since winning his first Super Bowl in 2000, his teams have also missed the playoffs four times (2002, 2004-2005, 2007) and had three losing seasons (2002, 2005, 2007). Those losing seasons enabled them to draft high enough to tab guys like Nata, Suggs and Flacco in the first round. Oh, and Ozzie's GM track record also includes this gem: In 2003, he traded his 2004 first round draft pick to NEW ENGLAND in return for a first rounder, which Newsome used to draft Kyle Boller, QB, California. New England used Baltimore's 2004 first rounder to draft a guy named Vince Wilfork.

    So yeah, Ozzie is excellent at what he does, but he also makes mistakes---sometimes horrid mistakes, like Boller for Wilfork. All GMs make them, no matter how good they are.

    7--Since 2008 (and not including 2013 since it's the first training camp for that draft class), BB has drafted or signed as UDFA's the following players that are still on NE's roster: Mayo, Slater, Wendell, Vollmer, Edelman, McCourty, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Mesko, Fletcher, Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Mallett, Cannon, Tarpinian, Jones, Hightower, T. Wilson, Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, Francis, Bolden, Forston, Zusevics. Now, certainly, some of these guys are just roster fodder, and others will be cut or traded before this training camp is over. With that said, 80% of one of the best offensive lines in the NFL is included on that list, and so is 100% of a very good starting LB corps. In addition, you've got McCourty, who had a great rookie year as a CB, tailed off in 2011 and was ultimately moved to a position where he seems very likely to become a Pro Bowler in the near future. Jones would have had double-digit sacks as a rookie last year were it not for his ankle injury; Gronkowski is the best TE in football and will be again once he's off the PUP list this season; Ridley and Vereen are a productive and exciting pair of young RBs; Slater is one of the best special-teamers in the league; and Edelman is very produtive when healthy. BB also found a hidden gem in Rob Ninkovich in 2009 after SEVERAL teams refused to even let him do more than be a member of their practice squads for four seasons.

    8--Yes, the pass defense hasn't been up to snuff in recent seasons, and that's been a problem. Top-notch DB talent usually lives near the top-half of the first round of the draft, however, and the Pats' success year after year makes it nearly impossible for them to have a shot to draft a guy like Revis. However, I'm not going to use that as an excuse for BB's below-average track record drafting DBs in recent years (except for McCourty--and we'll see about some of the other guys he's drafted starting with the 2011 draft).

    I will, however, make this excuse for him: Polian and his co-conspirators, through slippery means and with a clear, anti-New England agenda in mind, essentially succeeded in changing the way pass defense has to be played in the NFL, and evaluating college DBs and projecting their ability to be able to successfully navigate around the "The Polian Rules" has become a lot harder, for every NFL GM, in recent years. And that's one of the main reasons why picking in the top-half of the first round once in awhile would help BB's cause. But, here again, the Pats win too many games every year to be able to pick that high.

    9--Bottom line, anyone who thinks that BB is a below-average or even bad drafter or GM after reviewing the facts that have been presented here simply isn't interested in facts. They're just interested in pushing agendas, and they're no different than discredited media hacks like Borges, Breer, Felger and Shank.

    I apologize for the length of the post, but there were a lot of points that needed to be made.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to hardright's comment:


     and also burying a red hot Maroney, who had rushed for more than 230 yards in their other two post-season wins);



    Maroney was stinking the stadium up in that game.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to hardright's comment:

     

    5--BELICHICK HAS HAD DRAFT BUSTS. Yes, he most certainly has. He's had many of them. He's whiffed on a lot of DB picks, in particular, and that's hurt the overall quality of the team



    This is the most glaring problem. When you mess up a pick for that need, it's bad enough. But then you have to readdress the need. And when you mess it up again and again the problem grows dramatically. Suddenly you have expended vast resources trying to fix the problem that were needed to fix other issues, and you still have that glaring hole. That is sucking at what you do.

    It's not so much that he has had an overall worse drafting record than the average guy. It's that far far too many of his misses have come on specific defensive needs.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Everybody whiffs on DB picks. There just aren't many good ones.

     

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