Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    n response to hardright's comment:

     


    5--BELICHICK HAS HAD DRAFT BUSTS. Yes, he most certainly has. He's had many of them. He's whiffed on a lot of DB picks, in particular, and that's hurt the overall quality of the team because, let's face it, since the Polian-Martz-Fisher, et. al. Cabal got together and rammed a Patriots-focused rule change into being 9 years ago (where was the media outcry over that bit of "cheating to gain a competitive advantage?"), stopping the pass has really become the one and only thing defenses MUST do well consistently in order to give their teams a chance to win. With that said, BB's draft record, OVERALL, since 2007, stacks up well with every other GM's in the NFL. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

    RESPONSE: Last season, the Pats were 29th in the NFL in pass defense. Pass defense has been the Achilles Heel of this team...and continues to be, going into this season. To blame their troubles defending the pass on the Polian passing rules is silly. Why can't you simply admit that the problem exists due to BB's failure to "fix" the secondary through the draft? He has never been able to replace Asante Samuel, after he had left for Philly. The secondary was so bad last year that BB had to roll dice on a character issue player last year, when he traded his 4th round pick in the 2012 draft, to rent Aqib Talib for half a season. What happened in the AFC title game against the Ravens in the second half, after Talib left the game with a hamstring injury?   

    6--You wanna talk about Ozzie Newsome? Fine, let's talk about him.

    RESPONSE: Here we go again! The premise of my argument is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present, is the main reason why the Pats haven't won a SB since 2005. I have no complaints regarding BB's drafts from 2000-05.

    The only reason I brought Newsome and the Ravens into the discussion is because that team had outplayed the Patriots in Foxborough in the play-offs, in 2009, 2011, and 2012. I thought that it would be interesting to compare the drafting records of Newsome from 2006-present, to BB. 

    He's an excellent GM. He's one of the best in the business....and since winning his first Super Bowl in 2000, his teams have also missed the playoffs four times (2002, 2004-2005, 2007) and had three losing seasons (2002, 2005, 2007).

    RESPONSE: Here we go again! The time period in question is the past 8 years, from 2006-present! I have no complaints about BB's drafting prior to 2006. So, what Newsome did or didn't do from 2000-05 is irrelevant to this discussion.

    Those losing seasons enabled them to draft high enough to tab guys like Nata, Suggs and Flacco in the first round.

    RESPONSE: This is irrelevant! But, big deal. The Pats became the Pats defensively in their dynasty era because of high draft picks. BB got Richard Seymour in 2001 with a top 10 pick. He inherited Willie McGinest, another top 10 pick. Ty Law was a #1 draft choice. BB got Vince Wilfolk in a deal with the Ravens, at #21 overall. 

    So what? We are talking about the period between 2006-13. Please stay on subject. As for Flacco, the Ravens traded up to nab him with the 19th overall pick in 2007. 

     7--Since 2008 (and not including 2013 since it's the first training camp for that draft class), BB has drafted or signed as UDFA's the following players that are still on NE's roster: Mayo, Slater, Wendell, Vollmer, Edelman, McCourty, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Mesko, Fletcher, Solder, Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Mallett, Cannon, Tarpinian, Jones, Hightower, T. Wilson, Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, Francis, Bolden, Forston, Zusevics. Now, certainly, some of these guys are just roster fodder, and others will be cut or traded before this training camp is over. With that said, 80% of one of the best offensive lines in the NFL is included on that list, and so is 100% of a very good starting LB corps. In addition, you've got McCourty, who had a great rookie year as a CB, tailed off in 2011 and was ultimately moved to a position where he seems very likely to become a Pro Bowler in the near future. Jones would have had double-digit sacks as a rookie last year were it not for his ankle injury; Gronkowski is the best TE in football and will be again once he's off the PUP list this season; Ridley and Vereen are a productive and exciting pair of young RBs; Slater is one of the best special-teamers in the league; and Edelman is very produtive when healthy. BB also found a hidden gem in Rob Ninkovich in 2009 after SEVERAL teams refused to even let him do more than be a member of their practice squads for four seasons.

    RESPONSE: Well...unlike the rude, cowardly, childish pcmIV, at least you have chosen to discuss the period in question here, and attempt to defend BB's drafts. But, sorry. You attempt to make his talent acquisitions through the draft look better and more numerous by including undrafted free agents he's signed. Here's a look at his drafts...limited to the top 100 picks:

    1.) 2006: The 2006 draft was a disaster, in which BB, perhaps fearing that the Colts would draft him, chose to select RB Lawrence Maroney at #21. Then, it got worse. BB packaged his 52nd and 75th overall picks to trade up to #36 overall, where he chose WR Chad Jackson, and TE David Thomas at #86;

    2.) 2007: BB selected FS Brandon Meriweather at #24;  

    3.) 2008: After selecting ILB Jerod Mayo at #10, BB them wasted his 62nd overall pick on CB Terrence Wheatley, selected OLB Shawn "Betty Grable" Crable at #78, and QB Kevin 'Connell at #94.

    4.) 2009: Took Patrick "Eugene" Chung at #34, Ron Brace at #40, Darius Butler at #41, before hitting on C-Bass at #58. Then, proceeded to use his 83rd overall pick on WR Brandon Tate, and his 97th overall pick on Tyrone McKenzie.

    5.) 2010: Took McCourty at #27, Gronk at #42, Cunningham at #53, Spikes at #62, Taylor Price at #90.

    6.) 2011: Landed Nate Solder at #17, Ras-I Dowling at #33, Shane Vereen at #56, Ridley at #73, and Ryan Mallett at #74.

    7.) 2012: Got Chandler Jones at #21, Hightower at #25, Tavon Wilson at #48, and Jake Bequette at #90.  

    LET ME EMPHASIZE THIS:

    I've never said that BB is a terrible GM, as certain idiots here have accused me of saying. I've only criticized his drafts, from 2006-present. 

    BB is a great evaluator of veteran talent. He usually knows when to let a guy go, and when to keep him. Even his decision to let Asante Samuel go was the correct one. What made it appear to be erroneous is that he's picked the wrong players in the draft to replace him.

    BB also makes great trades. I give him high marks for the trades he made in 2007 to land andy Moss and Wes Welker, and the deal he made to eventually land LB Jerod Mayo in 2008. Even the draft trade he made with Green Bay in 2009 for multiple draft choices was good...but he just used the picks he got on the wrong guys.

    Ditto the Cassell deal in 2009, the draft day deal with Carolina in 2010 which resulted in him getting the 33rd overall pick in 2011 (which was wasted on Ras-I), and the draft day trades he made in 2012 and 2013. All were all excellent. My only complaint of him lies over the actual selection of players in the draft.   

    8--Yes, the pass defense hasn't been up to snuff in recent seasons, and that's been a problem. Top-notch DB talent usually lives near the top-half of the first round of the draft, however, and the Pats' success year after year makes it nearly impossible for them to have a shot to draft a guy like Revis. However, I'm not going to use that as an excuse for BB's below-average track record drafting DBs in recent years (except for McCourty--and we'll see about some of the other guys he's drafted starting with the 2011 draft).

    RESPONSE: Not up to snuff? It's been terrible...despite the great number of high draft choices spent to fix it! It's a testament to BB and Brady that the Pats have done as well as they have, despite their horrid pass defense. 

    I will, however, make this excuse for him: Polian and his co-conspirators, through slippery means and with a clear, anti-New England agenda in mind, essentially succeeded in changing the way pass defense has to be played in the NFL, and evaluating college DBs and projecting their ability to be able to successfully navigate around the "The Polian Rules" has become a lot harder, for every NFL GM, in recent years. And that's one of the main reasons why picking in the top-half of the first round once in awhile would help BB's cause. But, here again, the Pats win too many games every year to be able to pick that high.

    RESPONSE: That excuse was viable in 2004. But, BB has since adjusted, and pretty much transformed the Patriots into what the Colts once were. Perhaps evaluating DBs has become as difficult as it has been for him to evaluate WRs. Still, that doesn't change the fact that he's taking the wrong guys, It also doesn't excuse taking a short CB with the 62nd overall pick in 2008, who have a surgically inserted steel rod in his wrist (Wheatley)...taking Ras-I Dowling at #33 in 2011, who was injury prone throughout his college career...or using the 48th overall pick in 2012 to grossly reach for safety, Tavon Wilson.   

    9--Bottom line, anyone who thinks that BB is a below-average or even bad drafter or GM after reviewing the facts that have been presented here simply isn't interested in facts. They're just interested in pushing agendas, and they're no different than discredited media hacks like Borges, Breer, Felger and Shank.

    RESPONSE Some of the points you made above are valid. But this is not one of them. BB has generally done a poor job overall in selecting players through the draft...particularly on the defensive side of the ball. It is the reason why the Pats' pass defense is currently one of the worst in the NFL. 

    I apologize for the length of the post, but there were a lot of points that needed to be made.

    Thanks for taking the time to reasonably present your case.

     




     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    TP,

    I just got into this discussion and haven't been following it that closely, so I really don't know what specific years are being discussed.

    But if you're focusing on the years 2006-present, that's fine. Yes, 2006 and 2007 were subpar draft hauls for the Patriots. However, if you don't include the 2007 draft picks that were traded away for acquire Welker and Moss, then you're not telling the whole story.

    Also, I don't quite understand your critique of my including UDFA's as part of the draft hauls. They are part of every team's draft haul. Some UDFAs, like Jon Randle, even end up in the Hall of Fame when they're done playing. Also, since the draft shrunk down to 7 rounds in the 1990s, more and more quality players are going undrafted, and so the UDFA process has become an increasingly important part of the draft. It needs to be included when discussing overhaul draft classes, in my view.

    We can rehash all of the misses, and all of the trade-downs that resulted in BB "passing on" talented players like Clay Matthews, but again, you have to consider the entire picure here and not just focus on the minutiae.

    Since 2008, he's drafted or signed as UDFA's Mayo, Wendell, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Solder, Ridley, Cannon, Jones, Dennard, and Hightower. That's 12 starters on a team that went 12-4 and went to the AFC title game last year, losing only because their top CB was injured early in the game, their top TE was out, and their slot receiver, once again, dropped a crucial, momentum-swinging pass when the team was about to go up by at least a 16-7 score midway through the third quarter.

    How anyone can look at those draft hauls between 2008-2012 (5 drafts), which yielded 12 starters--or an average of 2.4 starters per draft--and call the GM's record "poor", as you just did, is beyond me.

    And again, we're talking about a team that has won 10 or more regular season games in 11 of the last 12 seasons, with a 9-7 record in the other one (2002). Teams that win that many games simply don't have a chance to draft "top" talent that often, not unless they've made  a deal the year before (like the one that brought SF's pick in 2008, which got them Mayo).

    Ask any Green Bay or  Baltimore fan--recent Super Bowl winning teams--if they're pleased that their teams, in the middle of the last decade (even later in GB's case), had losing seasons which resulted in higher draft positions the following spring. I'd bet that they would all say yes, because those losing seasons brought the higher picks that resulted in the likes of BJ Raji, Nata and Suggs being drafted in the first round.

    I understand the frustration with the lack of SB titles in the last 8 years, but just to get there twice and to lose, basically, because of bad luck both times, remains a major accomplishment. To get there that second time, four years later, with a roster that had been 91% turned over in the interim, was fairly remarkable, actually.

    Remember, as good as Ozzie Newsome is, he went 12 years between Super Bowl appearances. The Giants have won two SBs since 2007, but missed the playoffs three times, I believe, in the other four seasons (2009, 2010, 2012).

    It's not possible for the Patriots to have maintained this high a level of achievement, year after year, with no non-playoff years (except for the 11-5 year that Brady was hurt), and have a "poor" GM making the draft/free agency/trade decisions.

    That's the problem that I have with some people around here--they use words like "poor" or "terrible" to describe the draft track record of a guy who has, without question, resided at least in the top quartile of NFL GMs over his career, including the past five years or so. 

    Even the "great" Bill Polian, whom I know some people here have lauded as being better than Belichick because he's "won a Super Bowl more recently," was fired two years ago because he had absolutely zero organizational depth and had built his team completely, utterly, and totally around a single player. BB would never allow that to happen to any team he was running.

     

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Hardright....poster of the year. Quality not quantity. Truly a gem of a post.

    Below is my favorite part and sums up why it is not worth discussing this topic with 3 or 4 guys on this board.

    "9--Bottom line, anyone who thinks that BB is a below-average or even bad drafter or GM after reviewing the facts that have been presented here simply isn't interested in facts. They're just interested in pushing agendas,"

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to hardright's comment:

    TP,

    I just got into this discussion and haven't been following it that closely, so I really don't know what specific years are being discussed.

    But if you're focusing on the years 2006-present, that's fine. Yes, 2006 and 2007 were subpar draft hauls for the Patriots. However, if you don't include the 2007 draft picks that were traded away for acquire Welker and Moss, then you're not telling the whole story.

    RESPONSE: I credited BB for his trades, including the Welker and Moss deals. But, this discussion concerns BB's draft selections only.

    Also, I don't quite understand your critique of my including UDFA's as part of the draft hauls. They are part of every team's draft haul. Some UDFAs, like Jon Randle, even end up in the Hall of Fame when they're done playing. Also, since the draft shrunk down to 7 rounds in the 1990s, more and more quality players are going undrafted, and so the UDFA process has become an increasingly important part of the draft. It needs to be included when discussing overhaul draft classes, in my view.

    RESPONSE: Again, this discussion centers on BB's draft selections only...not undrafted free agents he signed, free agents acquired, or players acquired by trade.

    We can rehash all of the misses, and all of the trade-downs that resulted in BB "passing on" talented players like Clay Matthews, but again, you have to consider the entire picure here and not just focus on the minutiae.

    RESPONSE: Again, the Matthews trade would have been really good, had BB selected better players with the draft choices that he acquired. In fact, one of the draft choices acquired in the Matthews deal was used to draft Gronk in 2010.

    Since 2008, he's drafted or signed as UDFA's Mayo, Wendell, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Solder, Ridley, Cannon, Jones, Dennard, and Hightower. That's 12 starters on a team that went 12-4 and went to the AFC title game last year, losing only because their top CB was injured early in the game, their top TE was out, and their slot receiver, once again, dropped a crucial, momentum-swinging pass when the team was about to go up by at least a 16-7 score midway through the third quarter.

    RESPONSE: They had a lousy pass defense then, and still have a lousy pass defense now. 

    How anyone can look at those draft hauls between 2008-2012 (5 drafts), which yielded 12 starters--or an average of 2.4 starters per draft--and call the GM's record "poor", as you just did, is beyond me.

    RESPONSE: BB has tried to fix his secondary ever since he parted with Asants Samuel in 2008. After selecting CBs Wheatley(62nd overall) and Wilhite (129th overall) in 2008, DBs Chung (34th overall) and Butler (41st overall) in 2009, CB McC ourty (27th overall) in 2010, Ras-I Dowling (33rd overall) in 2011, and safety Tavon Wilson (48th overall) in 2012, please explain to me how it was possible that the Pats were 29th in the league in pass defense last year?     

    And again, we're talking about a team that has won 10 or more regular season games in 11 of the last 12 seasons, with a 9-7 record in the other one (2002). Teams that win that many games simply don't have a chance to draft "top" talent that often, not unless they've made  a deal the year before (like the one that brought SF's pick in 2008, which got them Mayo).

    RESPONSE: BB and Brady are the greatest coach and QB in the history of the game. Their brilliance keeps the Patriots as double digit winners during the regular season. But, in the play-offs, the rubber hits the road...and the Pats' poor pass defense gets exposed.

    Ask any Green Bay or  Baltimore fan--recent Super Bowl winning teams--if they're pleased that their teams, in the middle of the last decade (even later in GB's case), had losing seasons which resulted in higher draft positions the following spring. I'd bet that they would all say yes, because those losing seasons brought the higher picks that resulted in the likes of BJ Raji, Nata and Suggs being drafted in the first round.

    RESPONSE: The Pats have gotten Jerod Mayo at #10 overall, Nate Solder at #17 overall, and Vince Wilfolk (21st overall) and Chandler Jones (21st overall) through trades. through trades...for which I give BB credit for.

    I understand the frustration with the lack of SB titles in the last 8 years, but just to get there twice and to lose, basically, because of bad luck both times, remains a major accomplishment. To get there that second time, four years later, with a roster that had been 91% turned over in the interim, was fairly remarkable, actually.

    RESPONSE: You do make a point, here. But, why were those SBs lost in the end? Because the Pats pass defense couldn't stop Eli Manning and company on final minute drives.

    Remember, as good as Ozzie Newsome is, he went 12 years between Super Bowl appearances. The Giants have won two SBs since 2007, but missed the playoffs three times, I believe, in the other four seasons (2009, 2010, 2012).

    RESPONSE: Ozzie never had a QB like Brady...until he finally got a decent one in Flacco, with the 19th overall pick, in 2007. He also never had a coach in BB's class. 

    It's not possible for the Patriots to have maintained this high a level of achievement, year after year, with no non-playoff years (except for the 11-5 year that Brady was hurt), and have a "poor" GM making the draft/free agency/trade decisions.

    RESPONSE: Yes...it is possible. With Brady at QB and BB as coach, all things NFL are possible.

    That's the problem that I have with some people around here--they use words like "poor" or "terrible" to describe the draft track record of a guy who has, without question, resided at least in the top quartile of NFL GMs over his career, including the past five years or so.

    RESPONSE: Again, drafting players is not the sole job of a GM. There's managing the salary cap, evaluating veteran players, signing the right free agents and making the right trades that also figure into the mix. BB's sole weakness is evaluating college talent, so as to make the right picks in the draft. 

    Even the "great" Bill Polian, whom I know some people here have lauded as being better than Belichick because he's "won a Super Bowl more recently," was fired two years ago because he had absolutely zero organizational depth and had built his team completely, utterly, and totally around a single player. BB would never allow that to happen to any team he was running.

    RESPONSE: Polian was good at evaluating college talent, to fit his system. But, like BB, he benefitted greated from having a great QB running his offense.

     



         Good discussion. Thanks.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:



    RESPONSE: Perhaps not. But I sure as heck have verbally embarrassed and verbally beaten the tar out of you on this forum for the past 8 years...LOL!!!!

     

     



    just like you've done to pcm on this thread.  Stick with those Stuart Smally affirmations, TP. 

     



    RESPONSE: Apparently, pcm learned from you well. He tried misdirecting the discussion, refused to answer my points...and then, in the end, ran away.

         You know that you have credibility issues here. So, from time to time, you say things that you think are popular with most posters, to try to regain some footing. But, in the end, your true colors always show.

         For example, I'm still waiting for you to explain your claim that the "Patriot Way" is to blame for the AH situation, when you had previously acknowledged that BB and Mr. Kraft were blameless?

         I'm sure you recall me asking you this question on that thread which, incidently, you started. Of course, in typical, cowardly Doggie-doo fashion, you refused to answer...and ran off. Would you care to enlighten us now? 

     [/QUOTE]


    Keep this up TP and you might just earn the biggest joke of the board award. 

    PCM has done nothing but make you look silly, shown you as disingenuous, obstinate, petty, and dishonest. 

    As for your question to me.  I never claimed the patriot way of being responsible the AH situation.  You attempting to put me on such a claim demonstrates again those qualities of yours that I mentioned above.  Neither they nor the mantra is responsible for Hernandez. 

    The mantra, on the other hand, is a load of BS partially because of people like Hernandez.  That's my point.  You know it, but it doesn't stop you from twisting the message disingenuously and then attempting to challenge me. 

    Pathetic. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    For example, I'm still waiting for you to explain your claim that the "Patriot Way" is to blame for the AH situation, when you had previously acknowledged that BB and Mr. Kraft were blameless?

         I'm sure you recall me asking you this question on that thread which, incidently, you started. Of course, in typical, cowardly Doggie-doo fashion, you refused to answer...and ran off. Would you care to enlighten us now? 

     

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Keep this up TP and you might just earn the biggest joke of the board award. 

    RESPONSE: It would be news if did. After all, I'd be taking the award away from you, who has won it 9 years in a row...LOL!!  

    PCM has done nothing but make you look silly, shown you as disingenuous, obstinate, petty, and dishonest. 

    RESPONSE: He avoided the discussion...tried misdirecting it...and then ran off. Sound familiar, Dog(gggggg)??  

    As for your question to me.  I never claimed the patriot way of being responsible the AH situation.  You attempting to put me on such a claim demonstrates again those qualities of yours that I mentioned above.  Neither they nor the mantra is responsible for Hernandez. The mantra, on the other hand, is a load of BS partially because of people like Hernandez.  That's my point.  You know it, but it doesn't stop you from twisting the message disingenuously and then attempting to challenge me. 

    RESPONSE: 

         Dog(ggggg), we both know that you have serious credibility issues here. So, from time to time, you say things that you think are popular with most posters, to try to regain some footing. But, in the end, your true colors always show.

         You tried to gain favor six weeks ago by starting a thread entitled "Sorry to Pats Fans" in late June, in which, after you initially acknowledged that Bob Kraft and BB were blameless for the AH situation...you proceeded to savagely attack the Patriot Way, announcing it to be dead...and blamed BB, Kraft, and the Patriot Way by implication for the Hernandez situation. Want proof?

     1.) Here is your initial post, to start that thread: (dated 6/26/13, at 9:18 p.m.)

    "I know that I occassionally play devil's advocate, and I may have some "feelings", especially after this incident, about the "patriot way".

    But as fans - you didn't deserve this.  The team, frankly, didn't deserve this.  Regardless of BB's penchant for seeking "value" in talented players with less than stellar character, he didn't deserve this. Bob Kraft didn't deserve this.  

    I am not looking to gain any different treatment of y'all from these comments.  Treat me no differently.  I just wanted you to know that from an outsider, looking in, this is some bs that you didn't deserve." 

    2.) RESPONSE: How nice, and sweet. But then the venom started to spew from you, with this post (dated 6/27/13, 9:51 a.m.):

    "...criticizing play is different than having to deal with a murderer you once supported. What this does is put to rest the "Patriot Way". Earlier I suggested the slogan was media driven, but Hernandez's own comments about the Patriot Way told me that the language if not the mentality manifested itself within the team."

    3.) You then continued in a subsequent post (dated 6/27/13, at 3:02 p.m.):

    The only way that Hernandez becomes a topic in the future - at least as i see it today - is how it relates to the "patriot way"." 

    If "The Patriot Way" had nothing to do with the AH situation, than why would A.H.'s situation "relate" to the Patriot Way?

     4.) Next, you posted the following: (dated 6/27/13, at 3:42 p.m.):

    "I think it (the Patriot Way) is a mirage - like a political slogan.  It may have once been about something when the Pats had legendary defenses and seemingly clean guys...there's no denying that the Pats started using the mantra as a way to suggest that they could overcome the known questionable characters that they drafted or brought in.

    Dog(ggggg), the implication is clear...if there were no "Patriot Way", there would have been no Aaron Hernandez situation to deal with. 

    There is no way for a team to fully control their players, but the team used it to promote themselves as something different.  Players embraced the slogan if not the ideal.  Who knows if Hernandez can actually be linked to this other double murder, but if he can, those killings occurred a week before he was given his extension and actually made a statement about "the patriot way". What statement is that, Dog(ggggg)? 

    I don't begrudge Belichick for trying to gain an advantage by acquiring, at a cheaper cost, players with known warts, but then give up the mantra, because it seems to be backfiring. 

    Dog(gggggg), the Patriot Way is backfiring?? How so? I thought that it had nothing to do with the AH situation?  

    4.) Next, on 6/27/13, at 11:26 p.m., you stated:

    "...what may have been the patriot way - related to team and doing your job and whatever else - did morph into some kind of morality thing. Whether it was Kraft related or Pioli or someone else that helped the media fuel the perspective, that's what it morphed into. No one within the pats organization disputed it either.  Further, people like Hernandez used the moniker to discuss the change to their life - which in reality was a lie. Pats fans can choose to believe that this idea(l) never became more than something only football related, but in reality some in the organization and the media made it more and there was no one out there denying the embellished idea(l).

    Dog(ggggg)...so Kraft, Pioli, or "someone else" within the Pats organization is to blame for the Patriot Way...and, since it backfired, it's to blame for Hernandez. Right, Dog(ggggg)?  

    5.) Then, on 6/28/13, at 10:50 a.m., you stated the following:  

    "...Belichick...understood the chance he was taking with Hernandez...I don't think anybody could have or would have foreseen such a situation.  Regardless, the situation has happened and it has happened with one of the guys who had known issues; One of the guys who actually used the term "patriot way" in describing to the public the changing of "his ways" - which was a lie. 

    I thought that BB wasn't to blame for the AH situation, Dog(ggggg)??

         Thereafter:

     

    6.) You then added, on 6/29/13, at 7:13 a.m.: 

    "...Here's the thing. Belichick never pushes the morality play...when he brings players into the fold - if they were wayward - they "sat up and flew straight".  And this was the Patriot Way of "rehabbing" the bad player images. Leave the dirty work to BB...players shut up and toe the line. Others started pushing that it was more than that.  fans, media, the players themselves, Kraft.  Great promotional stuff.  I'd bet shirts were even made up at some point.  I don't begrudge the idea, but as evidenced by Hernandez, its hard if not impossible to "change" everyone...The pats seemed to think their system was above that.

    So...because Kraft and BB thought that their system was better than everyone elses, that they could continue to afford to bring in bad boys like Hernandez, right, Dog(gggggg)? So, in other words the arrogance of the Patriots as demonstrated in the concept of "The Patriot Way" was responsible for the AH situation, right, Dog(gggggg)? And because Kraft and BB pushed the concept, they're responsible, too. After all, according to you, the Patriot Way  concept "backfired", as you so stated above.

         Once again, by your own words, I've demonstrated that you are quite disingenuous, and couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it. Once again I have  demonstrated why you have no credibility on this forum.

    Babe Parilli had you pegged from the get go regarding this insincere apology thread that you started when he posted to you on your "Apology" thread, on 6/27/13, at 10:10 a.m., the following:  

    "Same old troll with an agenda. I was quite sure you had your usual ulterior motive. Your jealousy of the Pats is disgusting. You really just plain suck. The Patriot Way is alive and well troll. He (AH) got involved in dastardly things and he got booted. Chalk one up for the good guys - AGAIN.

    Shortly thereafter, Babe added the following: 

    "the troll is just playing you all. He's about as sincere as the snake was in Eden".  

         Can't wait to see you try to slither your way out of this one, Doggie-doo.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

        

     

     




     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to hardright's comment:

    if you don't include the 2007 draft picks that were traded away for acquire Welker and Moss, then you're not telling the whole story.

     



    Then by the same token you must subtract and good players BB drafted from his draft record with picks he traded players away for. You can't have it both ways. So the guys he got in the draft from the Cassel and Seymour trades would be out, for example.

    In the end his draft record is his draft record. What picks he gained or lost through trades is moot to that record.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to UD6's comment:

     


    Keep this up TP and you might just earn the biggest joke of the board award. 

     



    You already have that locked. Oh wait, you have second to Rusty locked. He is after all even worse than a lying phoney Colts troll.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Hardright....poster of the year. Quality not quantity. Truly a gem of a post.

    Below is my favorite part and sums up why it is not worth discussing this topic with 3 or 4 guys on this board.

    "9--Bottom line, anyone who thinks that BB is a below-average or even bad drafter or GM after reviewing the facts that have been presented here simply isn't interested in facts. They're just interested in pushing agendas,"

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"




    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I see Texas "the 5 year old" Pat is still calling me a coward.  Given that he has refused to respond to my post on page 13 which clearly takes on all his "arguments" one by one (yet again) I can only assume that he has nothing to say in defeat.  What a fraud.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    I see Texas "the 5 year old" Pat is still calling me a coward.

    RESPONSE: Look whose back?!! Mr. rude and crude himself. You don't like that I referred to you as a coward? Well...if the shoe fits...LOL!!! If you don't like it, then man up and answer the questions as posed to you, previously. Otherwise, go run back to your Momma.

     Given that he has refused to respond to my post on page 13 which clearly takes on all his "arguments" one by one (yet again) I can only assume that he has nothing to say in defeat.  What a fraud.

    RESPONSE: What a wuss.

     




     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Why don't you answer my post which responded directly to the "questions" you keep blabbering on about.  Are you afraid?  LMAO @ U.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    It's been 2 pages of dodging now Tex.  Are you going to man up you fraud?  LMAO @ U.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect.



    Babe, Mthurl, Rkarp, Texpat, Tcal... you're right, there are more, there's five.

    Otherwise known as the Legion Of Doom And Gloom.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Why don't you answer my post which responded directly to the "questions" you keep blabbering on about.  Are you afraid?  LMAO @ U.

     



    RESPONSE: You are dilusional. I'm tired of playing your little games. You have completely side-stepped and avoided answering my questions at every turn...turning to name calling and your trade mark rudeness, instead. I'm still waiting for you to answer my original premise. Care to finally step-up? Or, are you going to side-step, and run away, again?

     

         I'll be waiting: "My premise...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005...do you agree with that premise, or disagree? If you disagree, please point out the players drafted by BB in that consecutive 8 year period, from 2006-2013, that you think were hits.  

    Now...either answer the above, or run along.

     

     

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect.



    Babe, Mthurl, Rkarp, Texpat, Tcal... you're right, there are more, there's five. Otherwise known as the Legion Of Doom And Gloom.

    RESPONSE: And there are plenty of guys here who, right or wrong, will defend BB to the death. You Woz, Rusty, tanbass, and pms. Oh...sorry...did I say pms? I meant pcm.  Otherwise known as homers. 

         Oh...I almost forgot. You have an honary member...UD6, a/k/a "The Dog(gggggg), who has joined forces with you to try to get at me...LOL!!! You can see why above, as I once again have swatted him with the newspaper...as I caught him in yet another lie. Can't wait to read his response...unless he pulls a pcm and refuses to answer. 




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Whiff?  NESN isn't getting with the program.

    Duron Harmon, Steve Beauharnais, Logan Ryan’s Strong Play Shows Why Bill Belichick Drafts Rutgers Defenders

    http://nesn.com/2013/08/duron-harmon-steve-beauharnais-logan-ryans-strong-play-shows-why-bill-belichick-drafts-rutgers-defenders/

    Moral:  whenever BB and the Patriots draft somebody from outer Bohemia, be cautious.  Maybe the reason will become obvious in time.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect.

     



    Babe, Mthurl, Rkarp, Texpat, Tcal... you're right, there are more, there's five.

     

    Otherwise known as the Legion Of Doom And Gloom.




    Way more than that from what I've seen.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    well I dont know about all the nonsense and infighting going on in this thread, but one thing is for certain; TexasPat just knocked UD6 the troll out with a first round KO above! Exposing UD6 as an in-sincere, LIEING, troll whose only goal is to stir up crap. We all know that, but it is nice to see a troll be force fed his own words! A bludgoning like we havent seen on here in quite some time!


    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    "Exposing UD6 as an in-sincere, LIEING, troll whose only goal is to stir up crap."

    Yup - he's got a "twist the knife" fetish. He's here to pose as a level-headed sports fan but he's waiting for a fan to say something a bit irrational, which fans do, and then he twists the knife. No one wants him here and I'm surprised the mods allow him to be here.  Spygate is always on the tip of his tongue and now "the Patriot Way" which is his code for twisting the knife on AH. 

    "There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect."

    I'm not going to say I find his drafting suspect, but I do reject that he is some kind of drafting god. He's got a good overall system for player acquisition, and a somewhat rigid drafting approach which hits sometimes and misses otherwise. I'd put him in the top 20 percent of drafters in the league but it's hard to put him in the top 10 percent when other teams have won multiple Super Bowls in the meantime on the strength of young aggressive defensive players he missed on. 

    His strength is actually in the occasional savvy trade and finding undrafted and overlooked talent. Drafting straight up in the first or second round isn't his best ability. 

    So it goes. I'm glad to have him as our GM but he is not beyond reproach.

         
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

     

    "Exposing UD6 as an in-sincere, LIEING, troll whose only goal is to stir up crap."

    Yup - he's got a "twist the knife" fetish. He's here to pose as a level-headed sports fan but he's waiting for a fan to say something a bit irrational, which fans do, and then he twists the knife. No one wants him here and I'm surprised the mods allow him to be here.  Spygate is always on the tip of his tongue and now "the Patriot Way" which is his code for twisting the knife on AH. 

    RESPONSE: Yep...The Dog(gggggg) is a piece of work. I guess he needs to start another "Apology" thread. LOL!!

    I'm not going to say I find his drafting suspect, but I do reject that he is some kind of drafting god. He's got a good overall system for player acquisition, and a somewhat rigid drafting approach which hits sometimes and misses otherwise. I'd put him in the top 20 percent of drafters in the league but it's hard to put him in the top 10 percent when other teams have won multiple Super Bowls in the meantime on the strength of young aggressive defensive players he missed on. 

    His strength is actually in the occasional savvy trade and finding undrafted and overlooked talent. Drafting straight up in the first or second round isn't his best ability. 

    So it goes. I'm glad to have him as our GM but he is not beyond reproach.

    RESPONSE: Though I don't rank BB nearly as high as you do regarding his drafts, he certainly isn't the worst at it. But here, if one dares to criticize BB in any way, the homers here descend upon you, and accuse you of labeling BB as a terrible GM. Yet, my sole beef with BB lies in his drafts, from 2006-present. Otherwise, I credit him for having dona a very good job as GM.   

    He is a great evaluator of veteran talent...with a knack for knowing when to let a guy go, and when to keep him. Even his decision to let Asante Samuel go was the correct one. What made it appear to be erroneous is that he's picked the wrong DBs in the draft to replace him.

    The one glaring mistake that BB has made in his veteran evaluations was his decision to let Adam Vinatieri walk. I also thought that he made a mistake this year in not offering Steelers' restricted free agent, WR Emmanuel Sanders, more money. Sanders appears to be a young Deion Branch in the making. The cost to sign him would have been the 91st overall pick in the 2013 draft...which BB used to drastically reach for safety Duron Harmon. Sanders is in his contract year. If he stays healthy, I look for him to have a big year. 

    BB also has made some great trades. I give him high marks for the trades he made in 2007 to land Randy Moss and Wes Welker, and the deal he made to eventually land LB Jerod Mayo in 2008. Even the draft trade he made with Green Bay in 2009 for multiple draft choices was good...but he just didn't use the picks he got as wisely as he could have.

    Ditto the Cassell deal in 2009, the draft day deal with Carolina in 2010 which resulted in him getting the 33rd overall pick in 2011 (which was wasted on Ras-I), and the draft day trades he made in 2012 and 2013. All were all excellent. My only complaint of him lies over the actual selection of players in the draft.   

    What really concerns me is that BB is not paying heed to his scouts, and is going off himself to scout and work out certain players. When a coach does these things, it's sometimes leads to a coach "falling in love" with certain players, or, certain collegiate programs...as BB has done in the case of the University of Florida, and now, Rutgers.  

    As an example of a coach falling in love with a player, I harken back to 1990, when a power struggle developed within the NY Giants organization, between head coach Bill Parcells, and GM George Young. Young wanted to draft Georgia RB Rodney Hampton with the Giant's #1 pick, 24th overall, and Parcells wanted instead to take a LB named Darion Connor. Young won out...and this squabble would be the beginning of the end of the Parcells' era in NY, as he would move on to coach the then cellar dwelling, mess of a franchise in New England.

    Though Young tried not to be critical of his great coach, he allegedly told Parcells that Parcells had a tendency to fall in love with players, which tended to cloud his judgment. I suspect that the same may hold true with BB.

         




     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 guys here who find BB's drafting suspect.

     



    Babe, Mthurl, Rkarp, Texpat, Tcal... you're right, there are more, there's five.

     

    Otherwise known as the Legion Of Doom And Gloom.



    Yeah and there's a good two or three (like you) that drink a cup of koolaid every night in hopes you can squish out a giant pink Patriot helmet in the morning on the can. I'd be willing to bet if Belichick ever got to meet any of you he'd lean into Kraft and say, "these guys still think Patrick Chung is a good player...Dowling too!!".

    Rusty, truechamp and wooz...The Ron Brace Club. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    You'll find me on the "ghost" thread knocking him for not being good enough, I  told you three seasons ago that Love and Deaderick weren't starting caliber defensive linemen, I've been saying for years BB has been wrong for not paying an offensive coordinator more money to stick around... some of us have realistic, pragmatic opinions and can fairly, objectively and accurately rate our players and overall situation.  And no I don't mean Rusty, try not lumping us in together when it's obvious we disagree on a lot.

    Then theres the Legion Of Doom And Gloom who tell us the problem is our All Pro caliber players and team captains like McCourty and Mayo, every year at this time the "sky is falling," the offensive line last year at this time was a train wreck, then there have been other gems like mid season last year actually telling us that Wilfork is falling off and getting too old.

    In your estimations all of our players sux except for Brady, the coach/GM solely responsible for the winningest record in the NFL over the last decade, the owner of a 21 game winning streak and who is one Super Bowl ring shy of tying the all time record also sux.  You don't always say as much, but infer it by talking around the subject.

    I count five of you.

    You guys should either get out in the sun or be on antidepressant meds...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Hold on Wooz

    I have never been critical of BB's draft choices. Only free agent signings. That being said I have not always agreed on the draft choices ( I prefered a DT in the first 3 rounds)

    Why cant a board discussion be had with different opinions from BB's without being labeled anti BB, a troll or worse?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    For example, I'm still waiting for you to explain your claim that the "Patriot Way" is to blame for the AH situation, when you had previously acknowledged that BB and Mr. Kraft were blameless?

         I'm sure you recall me asking you this question on that thread which, incidently, you started. Of course, in typical, cowardly Doggie-doo fashion, you refused to answer...and ran off. Would you care to enlighten us now? 

     

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Keep this up TP and you might just earn the biggest joke of the board award. 

    RESPONSE: It would be news if did. After all, I'd be taking the award away from you, who has won it 9 years in a row...LOL!!  

    PCM has done nothing but make you look silly, shown you as disingenuous, obstinate, petty, and dishonest. 

    RESPONSE: He avoided the discussion...tried misdirecting it...and then ran off. Sound familiar, Dog(gggggg)??  

    As for your question to me.  I never claimed the patriot way of being responsible the AH situation.  You attempting to put me on such a claim demonstrates again those qualities of yours that I mentioned above.  Neither they nor the mantra is responsible for Hernandez. The mantra, on the other hand, is a load of BS partially because of people like Hernandez.  That's my point.  You know it, but it doesn't stop you from twisting the message disingenuously and then attempting to challenge me. 

    RESPONSE: 

         Dog(ggggg), we both know that you have serious credibility issues here. So, from time to time, you say things that you think are popular with most posters, to try to regain some footing. But, in the end, your true colors always show.

         You tried to gain favor six weeks ago by starting a thread entitled "Sorry to Pats Fans" in late June, in which, after you initially acknowledged that Bob Kraft and BB were blameless for the AH situation...you proceeded to savagely attack the Patriot Way, announcing it to be dead...and blamed BB, Kraft, and the Patriot Way by implication for the Hernandez situation. Want proof?

     1.) Here is your initial post, to start that thread: (dated 6/26/13, at 9:18 p.m.)

    "I know that I occassionally play devil's advocate, and I may have some "feelings", especially after this incident, about the "patriot way".

    But as fans - you didn't deserve this.  The team, frankly, didn't deserve this.  Regardless of BB's penchant for seeking "value" in talented players with less than stellar character, he didn't deserve this. Bob Kraft didn't deserve this.  

    I am not looking to gain any different treatment of y'all from these comments.  Treat me no differently.  I just wanted you to know that from an outsider, looking in, this is some bs that you didn't deserve." 

    2.) RESPONSE: How nice, and sweet. But then the venom started to spew from you, with this post (dated 6/27/13, 9:51 a.m.):

    "...criticizing play is different than having to deal with a murderer you once supported. What this does is put to rest the "Patriot Way". Earlier I suggested the slogan was media driven, but Hernandez's own comments about the Patriot Way told me that the language if not the mentality manifested itself within the team."

    3.) You then continued in a subsequent post (dated 6/27/13, at 3:02 p.m.):

    The only way that Hernandez becomes a topic in the future - at least as i see it today - is how it relates to the "patriot way"." 

    If "The Patriot Way" had nothing to do with the AH situation, than why would A.H.'s situation "relate" to the Patriot Way?

     4.) Next, you posted the following: (dated 6/27/13, at 3:42 p.m.):

    "I think it (the Patriot Way) is a mirage - like a political slogan.  It may have once been about something when the Pats had legendary defenses and seemingly clean guys...there's no denying that the Pats started using the mantra as a way to suggest that they could overcome the known questionable characters that they drafted or brought in.

    Dog(ggggg), the implication is clear...if there were no "Patriot Way", there would have been no Aaron Hernandez situation to deal with. 

    There is no way for a team to fully control their players, but the team used it to promote themselves as something different.  Players embraced the slogan if not the ideal.  Who knows if Hernandez can actually be linked to this other double murder, but if he can, those killings occurred a week before he was given his extension and actually made a statement about "the patriot way". What statement is that, Dog(ggggg)? 

    I don't begrudge Belichick for trying to gain an advantage by acquiring, at a cheaper cost, players with known warts, but then give up the mantra, because it seems to be backfiring. 

    Dog(gggggg), the Patriot Way is backfiring?? How so? I thought that it had nothing to do with the AH situation?  

    4.) Next, on 6/27/13, at 11:26 p.m., you stated:

    "...what may have been the patriot way - related to team and doing your job and whatever else - did morph into some kind of morality thing. Whether it was Kraft related or Pioli or someone else that helped the media fuel the perspective, that's what it morphed into. No one within the pats organization disputed it either.  Further, people like Hernandez used the moniker to discuss the change to their life - which in reality was a lie. Pats fans can choose to believe that this idea(l) never became more than something only football related, but in reality some in the organization and the media made it more and there was no one out there denying the embellished idea(l).

    Dog(ggggg)...so Kraft, Pioli, or "someone else" within the Pats organization is to blame for the Patriot Way...and, since it backfired, it's to blame for Hernandez. Right, Dog(ggggg)?  

    5.) Then, on 6/28/13, at 10:50 a.m., you stated the following:  

    "...Belichick...understood the chance he was taking with Hernandez...I don't think anybody could have or would have foreseen such a situation.  Regardless, the situation has happened and it has happened with one of the guys who had known issues; One of the guys who actually used the term "patriot way" in describing to the public the changing of "his ways" - which was a lie. 

    I thought that BB wasn't to blame for the AH situation, Dog(ggggg)??

         Thereafter:

     

    6.) You then added, on 6/29/13, at 7:13 a.m.: 

    "...Here's the thing. Belichick never pushes the morality play...when he brings players into the fold - if they were wayward - they "sat up and flew straight".  And this was the Patriot Way of "rehabbing" the bad player images. Leave the dirty work to BB...players shut up and toe the line. Others started pushing that it was more than that.  fans, media, the players themselves, Kraft.  Great promotional stuff.  I'd bet shirts were even made up at some point.  I don't begrudge the idea, but as evidenced by Hernandez, its hard if not impossible to "change" everyone...The pats seemed to think their system was above that.

    So...because Kraft and BB thought that their system was better than everyone elses, that they could continue to afford to bring in bad boys like Hernandez, right, Dog(gggggg)? So, in other words the arrogance of the Patriots as demonstrated in the concept of "The Patriot Way" was responsible for the AH situation, right, Dog(gggggg)? And because Kraft and BB pushed the concept, they're responsible, too. After all, according to you, the Patriot Way  concept "backfired", as you so stated above.

         Once again, by your own words, I've demonstrated that you are quite disingenuous, and couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it. Once again I have  demonstrated why you have no credibility on this forum.

    Babe Parilli had you pegged from the get go regarding this insincere apology thread that you started when he posted to you on your "Apology" thread, on 6/27/13, at 10:10 a.m., the following:  

    "Same old troll with an agenda. I was quite sure you had your usual ulterior motive. Your jealousy of the Pats is disgusting. You really just plain suck. The Patriot Way is alive and well troll. He (AH) got involved in dastardly things and he got booted. Chalk one up for the good guys - AGAIN.

    Shortly thereafter, Babe added the following: 

    "the troll is just playing you all. He's about as sincere as the snake was in Eden".  

         Can't wait to see you try to slither your way out of this one, Doggie-doo.

      



    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You actually save my posts for future use.  That is absolutely the most pathetic (or flattering) demonstration you've made on this board.  Run and hide TP.  You are officially a joke. 

    Now just a simple question to your pathetic demonstration - In everything you just wrote - quotes of mine and all - Did I say (as you originally suggested) that the Patriot Way is to blame for the Aaron Hernandez situation - Anywhere? 

    Methinks you are attempting to twist words and meanings again TP to fit your ridiculous narrative - and once again you've failed miserably.  By the way - the White House communications office called.  They've rejected your application.  Your misdirections are way to obvious.  The MSM even said they wouldn't be able to ignore it. 

    LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    PS - I just went back through the whole thing - SMH!  Times and date stamps too!!  You'd think that with all of that time and effort, that you'd find it useful to use against me.  It's like saving a bloody glove that doesn't fit.  What a joke.  Thanks for the humor, TP. 

    I was thinking I'd better watch my back because you've catalouged everything I've said, but given that you don't know how to present anything and make it valuable makes me think otherwise. 

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share