Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    Tell you what, I think that if TP and Babe work together they could actually find jobs in the communications office of our current administration. 

    TP's knack for reshaping arguments that are going south combined with Babe's knack for parsing could produce a formidable team. 

     



         You've got a lot of nerve saying this about anybody else...after all the lies, misdirections, and misquoting you've done over the years. Why are you still here?   

     

     




    Can you really expect a single honest or decent statement from someone who calls a despicable assault on an innocent woman a "harmless college prank" simply to assuage his man-love for his repugnant hero? 

    Morally speaking, even Rusty is better than this guy, though he lies just as much and is far more insane.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to CubanPete's comment:
    [QUOTE

    The Pats have a dire need for developmental QBs. There were 3 QBs that had at least 27 career starts and at least a 60% completion % that were available in the 3rd. Commissar Goodell had made Wonderlic scores verboten to the public.

    Ryan Nassib

    Landry Jones

    Matt Barkley

    Another QB with 26 career stats could be included on this list.

    Tyler Wilson

    I'm going to criticize Brady here, so a warning for you sensitive people not read further.

    Brady's performance in his playoff losses since the 2005 season:

    01/14/2006 @Denver - 20/36 Comp: 55.6% Rate: 74.0 TD/INT: 1/2 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: the game turned when Brady, down 10-6, threw a red zone pick 6. Instead of a 10-9 score, Brady put his team in a 17-6 hole they couldn't get out from. In retrospect, the Dynasty ends here.

    01/21/2007 @Indianapolis - 21/34 Comp: 61.8% Rate: 79.5 TD/INT: 1/1 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: Brady ends the game with a pick to safety Marlin Jackson.

    02/03/2008 vs NY Giants - 29/48 Comp: 60.4% Rate: 82.5 TD/INT: 1/0 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: Brady was rattled by Giants pressure all night long.

    01/10/2010 Baltimore - 23/42 Comp: 54.8% Rate: 49.1 TD/INT: 2/3 PFF Grade: -5.3

    NOTE: No excuses for this performance.

    01/16/2011 NY Jets - 29/45 Comp: 64.4% Rate: 89.0 TD/INT: 2/1 PFF Grade: -0.7

    NOTE: Brady throws a pick, killing a drive in the 1stQ when his team was deep in Jets territory, setting the tone for the game.

    02/05/2012 vs NY Giants - 27/41 Comp: 65.9% Rate: 91.1 TD/INT: 2/1 PFF Grade: 0.2

    NOTE: Brady, in his own end zone, throws the ball away to avoid a sack, resulting in a safety. In the 4thQ and the Pats protecting a 17-15 lead, with his team at midfield and 1-10, Brady underthrows Gronk and gets picked off. The result, the Giants didn't score but moved the ball midfield to pin the Pats deep in their own zone. In the AFCCG win over the Ravens, the Pats won that game in spite of Brady who uttered "I sucked..." after the game. Eli's PFF Grade: +8.2 (Proof positive that PFF sucks and is biased against Brady and the Pats.)

    01/20/2012 Baltimore - 29/54 Comp: 53.7% Rate: 62.3 TD/INT: 1/2 PFF Grade: -0.6

    Of his 56 dropbacks, Brady was under pressure 17 times. The results: 1 INT and a 13.0 Rating. Can't blame the O-line. This one's on Tom.


    So, why do I bring this up? After last season, it became painfully obvious that Brady is no longer effective against good teams, he's 36, and his backups don't look promising. Tebow has mechanical flaws and history isn't kind to Mallett (one would be hard pressed to find a successful NFL QB with a 57.8% NCAA comp). The QB class was very strong in the 3-4 rounds. BB the GM completely blew it because BB the coach fell in love with Rutgers defensive backs and wasted an opportunity to get a more promising QB prospect or two. This is a QB-driven league after all. Remember this when Ryan is giving up move-the-chains completions and Harmon is hustling on special teams.

    [/QUOTE]

    RESPONSE: Interesting post, Cuban. Though Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, or Wilson might all turn out to be busts, the NFL is indeed a QB driven league. As I have previously brought up time and again in other threads, the Pats could have had any of the four above mentioned QBs, at pick #91. Instead, BB, ignoring strong objections from his scouting department, reached for Rutgers safety Duron Harmon...a player who he likely could have had as an undrafted free agent. If one of these QBs (especially Barkley and Nassib) turns out to be a very good NFL starting QB, I can't wait to hear what the homers have to say, when they once more strike out against anyone who dares to criticize BB's drafts.

         Isn't it interesting that my goldmine pal, pcmIV, has refused to answer the following:

    "My premise...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005...do you agree with that premise, or disagree? If you disagree, please point out the players drafted by BB in that consecutive 8 year period, from 2006-2013, that you think were hits?"

         I wonder why he has failed to answer? LOL!!!    
        

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Third rounders have mixed success.  Some end up good players, but the majority end up as roster filler.  To judge BB's success with third rounders, you'd have to look at all his picks, calculate the percentage that ended up being good players and then compare that to the percentage of third round picks overall who turned out to be good players.  That's a heck of a lot more work than I'm willing to do right now, but if someone wants to give it a shot, it would be a great contribution to the board.  My guess is that BB's success in the third round is probably about average.  But it's just a guess because I haven't done the research required to make a truly informed judgment. 

     

     

     

     

    It is not mixed and it is far below average.

    I'm going through all the posts and I will try to respond to all of them. I stand by my statement. DBs give themselves away from the very beginning, for good or ill. It's simple, cover your man! DBs who struggle in this area will likely struggle in the future. If you can't cover UDFA WRs, you can't expect to hold your own on an island in real games. Harmon was a horrible reach who could have been had in rounds 5-7.

    The Pats have a dire need for developmental QBs. There were 3 QBs that had at least 27 career starts and at least a 60% completion % that were available in the 3rd. Commissar Goodell had made Wonderlic scores verboten to the public.

     

    Ryan Nassib

    Landry Jones

    Matt Barkley

    Another QB with 26 career stats could be included on this list.

    Tyler Wilson

    I'm going to criticize Brady here, so a warning for you sensitive people not read further.

    Brady's performance in his playoff losses since the 2005 season:

    01/14/2006 @Denver - 20/36 Comp: 55.6% Rate: 74.0 TD/INT: 1/2 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: the game turned when Brady, down 10-6, threw a red zone pick 6. Instead of a 10-9 score, Brady put his team in a 17-6 hole they couldn't get out from. In retrospect, the Dynasty ends here.

    01/21/2007 @Indianapolis - 21/34 Comp: 61.8% Rate: 79.5 TD/INT: 1/1 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: Brady ends the game with a pick to safety Marlin Jackson.

    02/03/2008 vs NY Giants - 29/48 Comp: 60.4% Rate: 82.5 TD/INT: 1/0 PFF Grade: N/A

    NOTE: Brady was rattled by Giants pressure all night long.

    01/10/2010 Baltimore - 23/42 Comp: 54.8% Rate: 49.1 TD/INT: 2/3 PFF Grade: -5.3

    NOTE: No excuses for this performance.

    01/16/2011 NY Jets - 29/45 Comp: 64.4% Rate: 89.0 TD/INT: 2/1 PFF Grade: -0.7

    NOTE: Brady throws a pick, killing a drive in the 1stQ when his team was deep in Jets territory, setting the tone for the game.

    02/05/2012 vs NY Giants - 27/41 Comp: 65.9% Rate: 91.1 TD/INT: 2/1 PFF Grade: 0.2

    NOTE: Brady, in his own end zone, throws the ball away to avoid a sack, resulting in a safety. In the 4thQ and the Pats protecting a 17-15 lead, with his team at midfield and 1-10, Brady underthrows Gronk and gets picked off. The result, the Giants didn't score but moved the ball midfield to pin the Pats deep in their own zone. In the AFCCG win over the Ravens, the Pats won that game in spite of Brady who uttered "I sucked..." after the game. Eli's PFF Grade: +8.2 (Proof positive that PFF sucks and is biased against Brady and the Pats.)

    01/20/2012 Baltimore - 29/54 Comp: 53.7% Rate: 62.3 TD/INT: 1/2 PFF Grade: -0.6

    Of his 56 dropbacks, Brady was under pressure 17 times. The results: 1 INT and a 13.0 Rating. Can't blame the O-line. This one's on Tom.


    So, why do I bring this up? After last season, it became painfully obvious that Brady is no longer effective against good teams, he's 36, and his backups don't look promising. Tebow has mechanical flaws and history isn't kind to Mallett (one would be hard pressed to find a successful NFL QB with a 57.8% NCAA comp). The QB class was very strong in the 3-4 rounds. BB the GM completely blew it because BB the coach fell in love with Rutgers defensive backs and wasted an opportunity to get a more promising QB prospect or two. This is a QB-driven league after all. Remember this when Ryan is giving up move-the-chains completions and Harmon is hustling on special teams.

     

     

     

    Looks like Rusty and TexPat had a love child.  

    I'm convinced.  The Pats would clearly be a much improved team without Brady and Belichick.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Looks like Rusty and TexPat had a love child.  

    I'm convinced.  The Pats would clearly be a much improved team without Brady and Belichick.



         Prolate, though  you and I rarely agree, I've always considered you a bright guy...until reading this silly post of yours. Where have I ever said that the Pats are better off without Brady or BB?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    Looks like Rusty and TexPat had a love child.  

    I'm convinced.  The Pats would clearly be a much improved team without Brady and Belichick.

     



    Have you been drinking again?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tears! Unmitigated!

    Rusty and UD6, a/k/a "the Dog(gggggg).

    What a daily double...LOL!!!!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    All this negativity, nit picking, moaning and whining says more about the poster(s) insisting otherwise than the team in question.  In a word; entitled.



         Out drinking again I see, Woz?? LOL!!! 

     

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

     

    Tell you what, I think that if TP and Babe work together they could actually find jobs in the communications office of our current administration. 

    TP's knack for reshaping arguments that are going south combined with Babe's knack for parsing could produce a formidable team. 

     

     




    Might be too late....BB has been leaving all kinds of voice mails for TP to come help them with the drafting next year.

     

     

    The retirment home called for Babe, but he was denied for being too stupid to fill out the application.

    Word has it that they get together on weekends to have a weekly misery party....

     




    Tears!

     

    Unmitigated!

     




    How touching to see you, doggydoo and tanbASS having a jolly little troll fest dumbkoff.

    Perfect picture too; your hero the fellow born liar.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    Let's just say hypothetically that the Pats win another Super Bowl this year, will they finally be good?

    Nope, the same moaners will look to next year and say "but they're in trouble next year" or "their schedule was a joke this year, they won't get that lucky again."

    First off, "scheduling" or "the division is weak" argument is utter BS, this is the NFL, there are no easy games, never mind entire seasons.  11-5 with Matt Cassel at QB as one of the top ranked offenses in the NFL really happened, a mediocre team with Cassel at QB is called The Kansas City Chiefs.

    It's not easy to win a Super Bowl, Belichick and crew may have made it look easy and seem like they should win every year but that's not the case.  The fact that they've gone over a decade now either winning or being on the cusp of winning a Super Bowl every year is a testament to how great this organization is from the top down, Belichick is the engine that makes it all go.

    All this negativity, nit picking, moaning and whining says more about the poster(s) insisting otherwise than the team in question.  In a word; entitled.

     

     

    Amen....someone who is sane on this board!!

     

     

    I'm afraid I can't continue to argue with these moaning nancies, maybe they need to up their meds or change their tampons...  

    Hey jackholes, we're talking about the winningest team in the NFL here, not the Browns, not the Bengals.  Get a grip.




    Looks like you're ITCHING to go back to the bad old days wozzy. Are you sure?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I'm afraid I can't continue to argue with these moaning nancies, maybe they need to up their meds or change their tampons.

    Hey jackholes, we're talking about the winningest team in the NFL here, not the Browns, not the Bengals.  Get a grip.

    RESPONSE: Typical homer refrain..."We got the best regular season record in the past decade...and anyone who dares to complain because we (meaning the Patriots, to whom the homers attach themselves by referring to the Pats as "we") haven't won a SB are "jackholes", "idiots", "twits", "spoiled fans"...fill in the blank.

    The truth of the matter is that fans who complain are really the true fans of the team...not the cheeleading homers. What's wrong with asking why the Patriots have failed to win another championship since 2006? What's wrong with wanting to see some change, after seeing the Patriots blowing a 21-6 lead in the AFC title game against the hated Horsefaces in 2006...squandering a chance at immortality because their defense couldn't stop Eli Manning and company from going 83 yards on their "D" in the final minutes of SB 42 in 2007...getting humiliated on their home field by the Baltimore Buzzards in 2009...getting embarrassed on their home field by, of all people, QB Mark Sanchez and the NY Jets, in 2010, losing another SB in 2011 because their defense again couldn't stop Eli Manning and company in the closing minutes of 2011...and being outplayed for the third straight time by the Buzzards in the play-offs again, in 2012??

         Do we see a pattern here? The pattern is that the Patriots have repeatedly failed to close out games in the play-offs...primarily due to poor defensive play. I want to see that changed! Don't you?? Or, are you happy seeing your team repeatedly choking and being playoff fodder to the likes of the Horsefaced Brothers, and Ravens? The reason for the playoff failures appears primarily due to poor defensive play. Because BB has drafted poorly from 2006-present, it's still a problem.

         Folks...can we all agree that poor pass defense is the main reason why the Pats have failed to win it all, since 2005? 

         Here's a look at the draft choices he's made to upgrade the "D", since 2006:

    1.) 2006: the first player drafted to help the "D" was Jeremy Mincey, the 191st overall pick that year. Mincey was released...catching on with the Jags, where he's had a modest amount of success as a pass-rusher;

    2.) 2007: BB moved to strengthen his "D" drawing from "The U" and drafting FS Brandon Meriweather with the 24th overall pick, and DT Kareem Brown, at #127. Brown was a complete bust...while the vastly overated Meriweather amazingly earned pro-bowl acclaim for a couple of years, before BB released him. I have never seen a pro-bowl caliber player drop off the face of the earth the way Meriweather did, without having injury issues.

    3.) 2008: BB again went defense. He scored with 10th overall pick, ILB Jerod Mayo. But, then failed miserably on damaged goods CB Terrence Wheatley at #62, OLB Shawn "Betty Grable" Crable at #78, and CB Johnathan Wilhite, at #129.

    4.) 2009: BB again moved to improve his secondary. He selected SS Patrick Chung at #34, Ron "Back" Brace at #40, the equally forgettable CB Darius Butler, at #41, and ILB Tyrone McKenzie, at #97. Chung couldn't cover, and ultimately couldn't stay healthy. Brace and Butler couldn't play...and McKenzie ended up getting hurt and getting released. Of all of BB's poor drafts in this period...this was his worst, and the most damaging to his team.

    5.) 2010: BB had a decent draft, adding CB (now FS) Devin McCourty at #27, ILB Brandon Spikes at #62, fringe OLB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and reserve DE Brandon Deaderick at #247.     

    6.) 2011: BB rolled dice on injury prone CB, Ras-I Dowling, at #33, and came up snake eyes.

    7.) 2012: BB rolled dice again by trading up to land DE Chandler Jones at 21, and LB Dont'a Hightower, at #25. Though both of these players show promise, the jury is still out. The play of these two players will likely decide the fate of the upcoming season. But then, after boldly moving up to land two potential impact players on defense, BB incredibly used his 48th overall pick on DB Tavon Wilson, and his 90th overall pick on the worthless Jake Bequette. But, BB also scored with the 227th pick, when he took a flier on talented but immature CB, Alfonzo Dennard.

    8.) 2013: Who knows what OLB Jamie Collins, taken 52nd overall, will become? Currently, he's more of an athlete than a football player...as BB is still experimenting as to what position he's best suited for. My guess is he'll have a limited impact on the "D" this season. But then, BB went Rutgers on us...drafting DB Logan Ryan (#83 overall), and safety Duron Harmon, at #91. Thus far, Ryan appears to be nothing more than special teams fodder. The Harmon pick was both silly and irresponsible...as he likely could have been signed as an undrafted free agent. Fellow Rutgers boys Michael Buchanan (OLB) and ILB Steve Beauharnais were good 7th round picks.   

         SUMMARY: In closing, BB has made allocated 11 draft choices to improve the secondary, over the past 8 years:

    24th overall in 2007 (Meriweather), 62nd (Wheatley) and 129th (Wilhite) in 2008, 34th (Chung) and 41st (Butler) in 2009, 27th (McCourty) in 2010, 33rd (Dowling) in 2011, 48th (Wilson) and 227th (Denard) in 2012, 83rd (Ryan) and 91st (Harmon) in 2013.

         Of these 11, 10 were top 100 picks...four of which, for all intents and purposes,  were low #1 picks. Of these 10 top 100 picks, only McCourty remains, with Wilson, Ryan and Harmon all seemingly treading water to make the team.

         Though BB is a greatest coach of all-time and has managed to get by, and even thrive with marginal secondary talent during the regular...his secondary has repeatedly been exposed in the play-offs.

         Does anybody care to argue this point??

        

            




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...


    I just think it's funny that there is one guy running around here praising every free agent signing, every draft pick and every contract, yet our secondary didn't improve for 7 years until we had to trade for a player that was drafted by someone else.

    We have drafted 13 secondary players since 06 and the only one who made it as a corner is a guy who punched a cop in the face. We brought in another 20 undrafted free agents, and signed another 15 free agents - that's nearly 50 players - yet the only two on this roster who can cover anyone is a guy drafted by someone else (and developed by someone else) and a kid that is going to jail next year.  

    I'll take Bill Belichick the coach over anyone else, but I think he has left a lot to be disired as a gm over the last 6-7 years.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    Tell you what, I think that if TP and Babe work together they could actually find jobs in the communications office of our current administration. 

    TP's knack for reshaping arguments that are going south combined with Babe's knack for parsing could produce a formidable team. 

     



         You've got a lot of nerve ...  YES I DO. 

     

    Why are you still here?   BECAUSE I'VE GOT A LOT OF NERVE.

    Laughing

    FUNNY THAT YOU COULDN'T FIGURE THAT OUT FROM YOUR OWN WORDS.  TP, I AM CONCERNED THAT YOU COULDN'T FIND YOUR SHADOW ON A CLOUDLESS DAY.   




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I'll respond to you all in kind...

    Babe I was directing my last post at Tex not you, though I do think your insistence on this issue and ignoring the basic facts of it all, instead insisting I'm a "homer" that's why I can't see straight is illogical considering Belichick has drafted more All Pro and Pro Bowl players than any other GM during his tenure, not to mention the multitude of trades that garnered us another 1st round or numerous extra picks, additions to the team via free agency, more specifically rookie free agents shows unequivocally that Bill Belichick has one of, if not the best eye for talent in football as well as cap managment.  

    Nobody is perfect with this process, nobody can see into the future or read the hearts of man and anticipate that Aaron Hernandez was going to become a serial killer or that Ras Dowling was going to get hurt and stay that way.  

    The draft is an inexact science and nobody bats a thousand, but considering you and others here seemingly think that the Patriots should win a championship EVERY year and that our roster should have all pro talent at EVERY position just shows how unrealistic your expectations are.

    To Tex, Mthurl and any others...

    Bill Belichick needs one more ring to match Chuck Noll for the most rings all time, he needs two to eclipse him.  

    pcmIV already undressed you giving you the stats that prove your idea that Belichick is a poor GM were bunk, I don't need to rehash it, just go back a couple pages and read his FACTS posted here.  

    Running down your rambling screed Tex isn't worth the brain cells I would lose in the process, every GM in pro football has a list of "misses," that's what makes the draft an imperfect science.  

    Every draft I suggest all you nitpickers come by and give us your picks, to see if you are as perfect in real time as you seem to be in hindsight, every year you all disappear and reappear after the draft.  

    Next year I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and find us some talent since Belichick and his winningest record in the NFL over the last decade can't.  This conversation is foolish and I'm done having it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...


    Hey Tex,

    You continue to acuse all of us so-called "homers" as being happy about losing in the post season. Here's a hint...I'm sure I speak for all of us horrible homers when I say we are NOT happy with the last 6-7 years of post season failure....no real fan is.

    The difference is that we still view this team as one of the most successful franchises in the last decade. If they aren't please name other teams that have a better record during regular (AND) post-season in the last decade.

    The way that you and Babe post like this team is worse that franchises like the Browns, Lions, etc. Babe calling the team around Brady "Mediocre" when we win more than any other team is just beyond stupid....I'm sure he's said other stupid things (it's what he does all day)....but I can't see his latest due to the wonderful ignore button.

    I actually agree that BB has some very questionable picks in later rounds such as the 3rd and others. The way I react to it, and the way you choose to react are the difference. Your posts come across as if the sky is falling, and that this team is doomed because of a few questionable picks. Hence why so many accuse you of whining versus just asking a few questions about a pick. You go on & on like it's the end of the world...when it's not.

    Just because we "homers" like to keep a positive outlook doesn't mean that we think this team is perfect. Anyone with half a brain can see that there are flaws...whether it be from drafting or not. One last time...it's all in the way you try and get your point across.

    Obviously you aren't going to convince us homers to be as upset as you are about the drafting.....and we aren't going to convince you that it's not the only reason we have lost superbowls and playoff games. It is what it is. Some people see the glass as half full while others see it as half empty....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I'll respond to you all in kind...

    Babe I was directing my last post at Tex not you, though I do think your insistence on this issue and ignoring the basic facts of it all, instead insisting I'm a "homer" that's why I can't see straight is illogical considering Belichick has drafted more All Pro and Pro Bowl players than any other GM during his tenure, not to mention the multitude of trades that garnered us another 1st round or numerous extra picks, additions to the team via free agency, more specifically rookie free agents shows unequivocally that Bill Belichick has one of, if not the best eye for talent in football as well as cap managment.  

    Nobody is perfect with this process, nobody can see into the future or read the hearts of man and anticipate that Aaron Hernandez was going to become a serial killer or that Ras Dowling was going to get hurt and stay that way.  

    The draft is an inexact science and nobody bats a thousand, but considering you and others here seemingly think that the Patriots should win a championship EVERY year and that our roster should have all pro talent at EVERY position just shows how unrealistic your expectations are.

    To Tex, Mthurl and any others...

    Bill Belichick needs one more ring to match Chuck Noll for the most rings all time, he needs two to eclipse him.  

    pcmIV already undressed you giving you the stats that prove your idea that Belichick is a poor GM were bunk, I don't need to rehash it, just go back a couple pages and read his FACTS posted here.  

    Running down your rambling screed Tex isn't worth the brain cells I would lose in the process, every GM in pro football has a list of "misses," that's what makes the draft an imperfect science.  

    Every draft I suggest all you nitpickers come by and give us your picks, to see if you are as perfect in real time as you seem to be in hindsight, every year you all disappear and reappear after the draft.  

    Next year I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and find us some talent since Belichick and his winningest record in the NFL over the last decade can't.  This conversation is foolish and I'm done having it.



    I'll finish the thought.  Not only does every GM miss on picks every year, but the assumption that every pick hits and develops into a probowl or all pro creates new issues.  There's a thing called the salary cap, and after rookie contracts are up, those players are expecting to get paid. 

    No team can financially maintain a full starting unit of probowlers year in and year out. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         Isn't it interesting that my goldmine pal, pcmIV, has refused to answer the following:

    "My premise...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005...do you agree with that premise, or disagree? If you disagree, please point out the players drafted by BB in that consecutive 8 year period, from 2006-2013, that you think were hits?"

         I wonder why he has failed to answer? LOL!!!     



    Unfortunately Tex I don't get paid to destroy your silly arguments all day so I can't be here 24/7.  I have already addressed this stupid point of yours one million times.  Even in your sample BB has drafted as many all pros and almost as many pro bowlers as Newsome.  Newsome is one of the top GM's in the league.  Therefore it is absurd to argue BB is a bottom tier GM. 

    This time since you are unable to process even the simplest of arguments I'll go even further.  Your whole argument is that BB's drafting has been bottom tier since 2006.  I'll stipulate that the 2006 and 2007 drafts were not good.  However for your premise to be correct BB's drafts from 2008-2012 must have been bad as well.  Why you even talk about the 2013 draft is beyond me.  Evaluating a draft before a single guy has taken the field is stupid.  You end up looking like that hack Borges did when he criticized the 2001 draft class (specifically Seymour and Light).

    So from 2008-2012 BB has drafted the following guys that I think were good picks:

    Jones, Hightower, Dennard, Solder, Ridley, DMC, Gronk, Spikes, Hern, Vollmer, Mayo

    He has also drafted these guys who have flashed some potential or provided value as a role player relative to their draft position:

    Vereen, Cannon, Mesko, Deaderick, Edelman, Slater.


    In the same time frame Newsome has drafted the following guys that I think were good picks:

    Upshaw, Osemele, Torrey Smith, Pitta, Oher, Kruger, Webb, Flacco, Rice

    He has also drafted these guys who have flashed some potential or provided value as a role player relative to their draft position:

    Pierce, Gradkowski, McPhee, Dickson, Jones

     

    Now you can (and probably will) quibble with how I've classified some of these guys which is why I've avoided subjective measures like this and stuck with well defined things like pro bowls and all pro teams, but looking at this list are you really going to argue that BB is vastly inferior to Newsome?  Hell BB has 2 all pros here while Newsome has none.  BB has guys that have been to 7 pro bowls here and Newsome has guys that have been to 3. 

    And for the last time.  Newsome is a top tier GM and from 2008-2012 I don't think he has done a remarkably better job at finding players than BB via the draft.  I could argue BB has done better.  That sort of blows a hole in your little theory that BB has been a bottom tier drafter for the past 7 years.  Why don't you find for me the 25+ other GMs that have done better if it is so obvious.

    As to your whole question as to why the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl that should be freaking obvious.  BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO WIN ONE.  You realize that Belichick and Brady are one win away from being tied for the most SB wins all time and the other 4 time winners didn't play in an era with a salary cap or the amount of free agency we have today which PROMOTES PARITY.  The fact is that the dynasty teams had a number of things go their way (the tuck rule and the Kasay out of bounds kickoff are a few things that come to mind) and the subsequent teams haven't (The Tyree catch or the safety which could have not been called).  It is frustrating, but doesn't mean the FO is completely freaking clueless. 

    Having a contrarian opinion on this subject that flies in the face of all the available evidence doesn't make you objective.  It just makes you an idiot.  Frankly I'm amused that you get your panties in a bunch about my namecalling when the fact is that I was cordial to you for a long time and all you ever did was call me an idiot and a homer.  Maybe you shouldn't dish it out if you can't take the heat Tex.  You are the only Pats fan I call names on this board and it is well deserved at this point.  Maybe I should take your father's advice and stop arguing with an idiot like yourself since it is clear you are never going to get it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Rusty you need to relax.  I think Tex is nuts, but that doesn't mean I think that BB is god and all other GMs in the league are incompetent.  Ozzie knows what he is doing.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Rusty you need to relax.  I think Tex is nuts, but that doesn't mean I think that BB is god and all other GMs in the league are incompetent.  Ozzie knows what he is doing.



    Agreed

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         SUMMARY: In closing, BB has made allocated 11 draft choices to improve the secondary, over the past 8 years:

    24th overall in 2007 (Meriweather), 62nd (Wheatley) and 129th (Wilhite) in 2008, 34th (Chung) and 41st (Butler) in 2009, 27th (McCourty) in 2010, 33rd (Dowling) in 2011, 48th (Wilson) and 227th (Denard) in 2012, 83rd (Ryan) and 91st (Harmon) in 2013.

         Of these 11, 10 were top 100 picks...four of which, for all intents and purposes,  were low #1 picks. Of these 10 top 100 picks, only McCourty remains, with Wilson, Ryan and Harmon all seemingly treading water to make the team.

         Though BB is a greatest coach of all-time and has managed to get by, and even thrive with marginal secondary talent during the regular...his secondary has repeatedly been exposed in the play-offs.

         Does anybody care to argue this point??

      

            

     



    Yes I will argue a part of this. It is meaningless to argue about draft OR FA or trades independent of each other. For example if a trade is made where you get a player and give a draft pick the two are necessarily intertwined. If you pick up some FA before the draft (name brands or core type players or even depth type players) it will impact what you do in the draft and so they are necessarliy interwined.

    So when you list a bunch of draft picks who are no longer here you overlook other changes to the roster. It is the final roster IN TOTAL that is what is important. Otherwise you could say something as stuipid as the opening post in this thread which was tro criticise THIRD ROUND picks as if somehow your ability in each round is truly independent and separately and meaningfully evaluated (just because you can evaluate past performance round by round does make that evaluation MEANINGFUL).

    So you need to inlcude players like Talib, like Dennard, like McCourty, like Gregory (and here for example it is the height of foolish to evaluate as 0 or 10... most players end up somewhere between the two and so you generally cannot say only GREAT or HORRIBLE), like A Wilson, etc.

    And you cannot judge to quickly a player who is a rookie or only a 1 or 2 year. The more years the more you can have a concrete judgment. 1 year is something but not generally definitive. 2 years starts to become meaningful. ANd there are occasionally players that take 3-5 years to "get it". Not great that it takes so long but it does happen.

    So my point is that your approach (not everything you say) is way too fantasy footballish.Not the sort of approach that generates rosters that perform as a BB roster does.

    Guys like Nink for example are not favorites of fantasy fans (and I do think those fans, of which there are a whole lot and some of them here, are not really football fans but fantasy fans) but are the kind of blue collar players coaches love. They don't love them to the point of not wanting big time playmakers but coaches generally appreciate solid, well coached, tough players who can fulfill their roles and are tough good team players. They allow and even help the more dynamic players make plays. So there play is actually key if not highlight reel ready.

    Do I agree that the secondary has had its problems? Of course, I am not blind. Are there still issues and questions there? Yes. DO we need more depth? Yes. AM I satisfied with the secondary? No. BUT I think it is getting better. McCourty seems to be a good S. Talib seems to be a good CB. Dennard seems to be a decent or even good CB (with some limitations). Arrington is a reasonable role player though not suited to certain key roles. I do not know how well either Wilson or Gregory wil be or the new rookies but I expect A Wilson to add value in some roles, not in others for which he is not suited.

    I think a pass rush does raise the effectiveness of the entire secondary and so improvement there will make a very significant difference - ESPECIALLY IF THE PASS RUSH IS EFFECTIVE IN THE PLAYOFFS (AND SB).

    I do not think it is meaningful to deliver a concrete evaluation on T WIlson or any rookie at this point. The coaches have to because they need to make roster and depth chart decisions. But from the fans any evaluation on someone who has not had time to learn and develop in the NFL is opinion (and please withold fantasy football type opinions, the real world is not fantasy, it is real) and nothing more.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

     

         SUMMARY: In closing, BB has made allocated 11 draft choices to improve the secondary, over the past 8 years:

    24th overall in 2007 (Meriweather), 62nd (Wheatley) and 129th (Wilhite) in 2008, 34th (Chung) and 41st (Butler) in 2009, 27th (McCourty) in 2010, 33rd (Dowling) in 2011, 48th (Wilson) and 227th (Denard) in 2012, 83rd (Ryan) and 91st (Harmon) in 2013.

         Of these 11, 10 were top 100 picks...four of which, for all intents and purposes,  were low #1 picks. Of these 10 top 100 picks, only McCourty remains, with Wilson, Ryan and Harmon all seemingly treading water to make the team.

         Though BB is a greatest coach of all-time and has managed to get by, and even thrive with marginal secondary talent during the regular...his secondary has repeatedly been exposed in the play-offs.

         Does anybody care to argue this point??

      

            

     

     

     



    Yes I will argue a part of this. It is meaningless to argue about draft OR FA or trades independent of each other. For example if a trade is made where you get a player and give a draft pick the two are necessarily intertwined. If you pick up some FA before the draft (name brands or core type players or even depth type players) it will impact what you do in the draft and so they are necessarliy interwined.

     

     

    So when you list a bunch of draft picks who are no longer here you overlook other changes to the roster. It is the final roster IN TOTAL that is what is important. Otherwise you could say something as stuipid as the opening post in this thread which was tro criticise THIRD ROUND picks as if somehow your ability in each round is truly independent and separately and meaningfully evaluated (just because you can evaluate past performance round by round does make that evaluation MEANINGFUL).

    So you need to inlcude players like Talib, like Dennard, like McCourty, like Gregory (and here for example it is the height of foolish to evaluate as 0 or 10... most players end up somewhere between the two and so you generally cannot say only GREAT or HORRIBLE), like A Wilson, etc.

    And you cannot judge to quickly a player who is a rookie or only a 1 or 2 year. The more years the more you can have a concrete judgment. 1 year is something but not generally definitive. 2 years starts to become meaningful. ANd there are occasionally players that take 3-5 years to "get it". Not great that it takes so long but it does happen.

    So my point is that your approach (not everything you say) is way too fantasy footballish.Not the sort of approach that generates rosters that perform as a BB roster does.

    Guys like Nink for example are not favorites of fantasy fans (and I do think those fans, of which there are a whole lot and some of them here, are not really football fans but fantasy fans) but are the kind of blue collar players coaches love. They don't love them to the point of not wanting big time playmakers but coaches generally appreciate solid, well coached, tough players who can fulfill their roles and are tough good team players. They allow and even help the more dynamic players make plays. So there play is actually key if not highlight reel ready.

    Do I agree that the secondary has had its problems? Of course, I am not blind. Are there still issues and questions there? Yes. DO we need more depth? Yes. AM I satisfied with the secondary? No. BUT I think it is getting better. McCourty seems to be a good S. Talib seems to be a good CB. Dennard seems to be a decent or even good CB (with some limitations). Arrington is a reasonable role player though not suited to certain key roles. I do not know how well either Wilson or Gregory wil be or the new rookies but I expect A Wilson to add value in some roles, not in others for which he is not suited.

    I think a pass rush does raise the effectiveness of the entire secondary and so improvement there will make a very significant difference - ESPECIALLY IF THE PASS RUSH IS EFFECTIVE IN THE PLAYOFFS (AND SB).

    I do not think it is meaningful to deliver a concrete evaluation on T WIlson or any rookie at this point. The coaches have to because they need to make roster and depth chart decisions. But from the fans any evaluation on someone who has not had time to learn and develop in the NFL is opinion (and please withold fantasy football type opinions, the real world is not fantasy, it is real) and nothing more.

     

     

     




     

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't bother with TP. He enjoys ceaslessly pontificating how he woud do a better job of GM and Coach of the Pats and wishes everyone would worship at the alter of TP. If you don't, you are cast out to that lowest of low places known as "Homerism City".

     

    It kills me that he thinks Denard and Dowling are not on the team. It also kills me that he thinks all draft picks should be probowlers before they even play their first game in the NFL.

    He continuously lies and fudges stats to make arguments that BB is the worst GM because he cannot find real stats that say otherwise.

    Is someone like that really worth arguing with?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

    Looks like Rusty and TexPat had a love child.  

    I'm convinced.  The Pats would clearly be a much improved team without Brady and Belichick.

     

     



         Prolate, though  you and I rarely agree, I've always considered you a bright guy...until reading this silly post of yours. Where have I ever said that the Pats are better off without Brady or BB?

     

     

     

     



    It was intended to be silly (not serious).  Really, it was just CubanPete's condemnation of Belichick's drafting and of Brady's performance that seemed like what you'd get if someone  hybridized you and Rusty.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to UD6's comment:

      You've got a lot of nerve ...  YES I DO.  Laughing

    FUNNY THAT YOU COULDN'T FIGURE THAT OUT FROM YOUR OWN WORDS.  TP, I AM CONCERNED THAT YOU COULDN'T FIND YOUR SHADOW ON A CLOUDLESS DAY.   



    RESPONSE: Perhaps not. But I sure as heck have verbally embarrassed and verbally beaten the tar out of you on this forum for the past 8 years...LOL!!!!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    Don't bother with TP. He enjoys ceaslessly pontificating how he woud do a better job of GM and Coach of the Pats and wishes everyone would worship at the alter of TP. If you don't, you are cast out to that lowest of low places known as "Homerism City".

    RESPONSE: Of which you are likely the mayor...LOL!!! 

    It kills me that he thinks Denard and Dowling are not on the team. It also kills me that he thinks all draft picks should be probowlers before they even play their first game in the NFL.

    RESPONSE: Do you homers all have a recessive gene in the reading comprehension area?? Please point out where I said that Denard or Dowling weren't on the team? As Wilson and Harmon...sorry...but using the 48th pick in 2012 and the 91st pick in 2013 on these guys was both wasteful and silly. Do you disagree? Why?

    He continuously lies and fudges stats to make arguments that BB is the worst GM because he cannot find real stats that say otherwise.

    RESPONSES:Please point out what "lies" and "fudges" I have made...and please point out where I claimed that BB was "the worst GM" in the league? Talk about lies nd fudging...geez!

    Is someone like that really worth arguing with?

    RESPONSE: You certainly aren't.




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    You'd think more than a few weeks of Training Camp would pass before you'd make this judgement?

     
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share