Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

         I'm still waiting for any one of you homers to defend BB's drafts, from 2006-13. I maintain that his poor drafts are one of the main reasons why the Pats haven't won a SB since 2005. Does anyone dare to step up on this? Your hero, pcmIV has repeatedly refused to do so.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    Learn to read Tex.  I did address the drafts from 2006-2012 you nitwit.  I also addressed the drafts from 2003-2012 and 2008-12.  In all cases BB is comparable to or superior to Newsome at finding all pro and pro bowl level talent and yet in your deluded little mind Newsome is a top GM and BB is a bottom tier drafter.  What a moron you are.   You have been body slammed by facts.  When was the last time you actually posted anything more than your deluded opinion ("BB is a lousy drafter") in this thread?  I have posted players.  I have posted statistics.  I have posted facts.  You have done nothing except deflect, change the topic, call me an idiot and a homer and cite your opinion as fact.  You are a moron.  The thread has gotten so bad that people uninvolved in our argument have commented on how badly you are getting owned.   In order to prove BB is a lousy drafter you'd have to demonstrate not that he is just worse than Newsome, but worse than most of the GMs in the league at drafting.  You have failed miserably.  Learn the game.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Learn to read Tex.  I did address the drafts from 2006-2012 you nitwit.

    RESPONSE: More name calling, I see? LOL!!!

      I also addressed the drafts from 2003-2012 and 2008-12.

    RESPONSE: Again...my premise is that BB's poor drafts from 2006-present are one of the main reasons why the Pats haven't won a SB since 2005. Not talking about ancient history. For the third time, I have no criticisms on BB's rafting from 2000-2005. Why are you cherry-picking? Either defend the period and refute my premise, or continue to refuse.

      In all cases BB is comparable to or superior to Newsome at finding all pro and pro bowl level talent and yet in your deluded little mind Newsome is a top GM and BB is a bottom tier drafter.  What a moron you are.

    RESPONSE: More name calling?? Why don't you man up and defends BB' drafts from 2006-present? Again, my premise is that BB's poor drafts from 2006-present are one of the main reasons why the Pats haven't won a SB. Do you agree or disagree...and why?  

       You have been body slammed by facts.

    RESPONSE:You are being cheered on by your fellow homers, and a Colts' troll who I've had he pleasure of verbally pounding on this forum for years. How can you say that you have "body-slammed" me with facts", when you have steadfastly refused to defend BB's drafts, from 2006-present?

      When was the last time you actually posted anything more than your deluded opinion ("BB is a lousy drafter") in this thread?  I have posted players.  I have posted statistics.  I have posted facts.  You have done nothing except deflect, change the topic, call me an idiot and a homer and cite your opinion as fact.

    RESPONSE: You have done nothing of the kind, except steadfastly refuse to defend BB's drafts, from 2006-present. Please pot you alleged stats, players, and other facts which you claim show my above listed premise is incorrect?  

    You are a moron. 

    RESPONSE: there you go again, with your name calling. If you can do half as good  job of defending BB's drafts from 2006-present as you do calling me names, you should be quite successfull inshowing me to be wrong.  I'm waiting.

    The thread has gotten so bad that people uninvolved in our argument have commented on how badly you are getting owned.   In order to prove BB is a lousy drafter you'd have to demonstrate not that he is just worse than Newsome, but worse than most of the GMs in the league at drafting.  You have failed miserably.  Learn the game.

    RESPONSE: Do you choose to defend BB's drafts from 2006-present. Yes. or no?




     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    It's been a joy watching Texas Troll and Babe align and both be bludgeoned as one on this topic by pcmIV.

    Great job by pcmIV all the way through, even if it was over on Page 1.

    RESPONSE: Well Russ...I'll concede that both you and pcm know far more about being rude and name calling, than I. Other than that...sorry. 

     




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I haven't been following the blow by blow of the Ozzie vs Bill debate specifics because that is a trap argument that simply turns into 100 smaller debates and therefore muddies the overview.

    But the bottom line is that Bill hasn't won a SB in 8 years and Ozzie has. You just can't get around that truth.

     

     

     http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/babeparilli/gif_193x113_39ce6f_zps83b8ca29.gif?t=1373985234

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    You keep cherry picking the years 2006-2012.  The definition of cherry picking is taking a sample that is not representative of the population as a whole in order to push a false conclusion.  In this case the full sample are the years that both BB and Newsome have been GMs.  Newsome has been GM for the 2003 draft to the present.

     



    But when one is examining why BB has not won a SB since 2006 it obviously isn't cherry picking and it is certainly fair to examine the resources he has brought in since that time.

    Or do you disagree with that basic truth?

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

    It's been a joy watching Texas Troll and Babe align and both be bludgeoned as one on this topic by pcmIV.

     



    I haven't even been involved in that debate until just moments ago dumbkoff.

    Another day, another Rusty looking like a fool moment.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    But when one is examining why BB has not won a SB since 2006 it obviously isn't cherry picking and it is certainly fair to examine the resources he has brought in since that time.

    Or do you disagree with that basic truth?


    Maybe if we weren't in the hunt, but we've been to 2 SBs since then and 2 other AFC Championship games.  If it wasn't for the helmet catch or the Welker drop we probably have two more Lombardis.  If not for the tuck rule or Kasay booting the kickoff out of bounds we might have 2 less.  I mean hell if the Denver safety doesn't completely fail the Ravens don't even leave Denver.  The point here is that a lot more goes into winning a SB than drafting.  Good drafting only gets you in the mix.  To equate the Patriots lack of SB victories in the past 8 years with bad drafting is tenuous at best.  And of course I already pointed out to Tex that since 2006 BB has drafted as many 1st team all pros and almost as many pro bowlers as Newsome.  Since 2008 he has done better than Newsome in both of those categories and yet we haven't won a SB.  And of course this entire comparison to Newsome is ridiculous.  Tex keeps arguing BB is bottom of the league at drafting.  If that were true his resume shouldn't be anywhere close to Newsome's.  The whole thing is nonsense.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     


    But when one is examining why BB has not won a SB since 2006 it obviously isn't cherry picking and it is certainly fair to examine the resources he has brought in since that time.

    Or do you disagree with that basic truth?

     



    Maybe if we weren't in the hunt, but we've been to 2 SBs since then and 2 other AFC Championship games.  If it wasn't for the helmet catch or the Welker drop we probably have two more Lombardis.  If not for the tuck rule or Kasay booting the kickoff out of bounds we might have 2 less.  I mean hell if the Denver safety doesn't completely fail the Ravens don't even leave Denver.  The point here is that a lot more goes into winning a SB than drafting and to equate the Patriots lack of SB victories in the past 8 years with bad drafting is tenuous at best.  And of course I already pointed out to Tex that since 2006 BB has drafted as many 1st team all pros and almost as many pro bowlers.  Since 2008 he has done better than Newsome in both of those categories and yet we haven't won a SB.  And of course this entire comparison to Newsome is ridiculous.  Tex keeps arguing BB is bottom of the league at drafting.  If that were true his resume shouldn't be anywhere close to Newsome's.  The whole thing is nonsense.

     




    How many 1st team all-pros has BB drafted at CB? Need is a big part of drafting. Another factor is that a guy making all-pro one year isn't that big of a deal. So counting how many guys have made all-pro is a flawed measure.

    But I don't call BB a terrible drafter. He has made many terrible picks, but he has his hits too. He is a mediocre drafter and that's why he has a mediocre team around Brady.

    His has been in the fight most years since 2006 because of his own coaching and Brady. I don't think many would argue that any Ravens HC or QB has been the equal to BB or Brady over that time.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Another factor is that a guy making all-pro one year isn't that big of a deal. So counting how many guys have made all-pro is a flawed measure.

    I was counting total number of all pro teams and pro bowls made, not number of players.

     

    But I don't call BB a terrible drafter.

    Tex has.  Many times.  My argument is not with you although I still don't agree.

     

    He has made many terrible picks, but he has his hits too. He is a mediocre drafter and that's why he has a mediocre team around Brady.

    That is your opinion.  I do not agree but my argument is not with you.

     

    His has been in the fight most years since 2006 because of his own coaching and Brady. I don't think many would argue that any Ravens HC or QB has been the equal to BB or Brady over that time.

    Newsome has had the benefit of one of the greatest safeties and linebackers of all time anchoring his defense every year.  Whose fault is it that it took him so long to find a competent QB?  He traded up to select Boller in 2003 and then proceeded to not select a QB with a high pick until Flacco.  If part of drafting is drafting well for need like you claim then Newsome unequivocally failed for 5 seasons.  The point here is not to disparage Ozzie who by all accounts is an excellent GM, but this whole premise of Tex's to compare BB to Ozzie and then conclude that BB is bottom of the league at drafting is just insane.

     




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    But I don't call BB a terrible drafter. He has made many terrible picks, but he has his hits too. He is a mediocre drafter and that's why he has a mediocre team around Brady.



    I honestly do not understand how you can label a team (since 2006) that has been in 2 SBs, 2 AFCCGs, and in the hunt almost every year "mediocre". It makes zero sense. Do you expect a pro-bowler at every single position?

    Seriously, do they have to win the SB every year for you to call them good? They are the most winningest team in the last decade bar none, but yet that's "mediocre"?? If you say so....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     


    Another factor is that a guy making all-pro one year isn't that big of a deal. So counting how many guys have made all-pro is a flawed measure.

     

     

     

    I was counting total number of all pro teams and pro bowls made, not number of players.

     


    I didn't mean to imply that you did. Others have and I was just using that as an illustration of how the plethora of mini debates such an examination can generate muddies the view.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    But I don't call BB a terrible drafter. He has made many terrible picks, but he has his hits too. He is a mediocre drafter and that's why he has a mediocre team around Brady.

     



    I honestly do not understand how you can label a team (since 2006) that has been in 2 SBs, 2 AFCCGs, and in the hunt almost every year "mediocre". It makes zero sense. Do you expect a pro-bowler at every single position?

     

    Seriously, do they have to win the SB every year for you to call them good? They are the most winningest team in the last decade bar none, but yet that's "mediocre"?? If you say so....




    You really need to accurately state what I have said.

    I never said this team is mediocre. This is a good team.

    I have said THE TEAM BB THE GM HAS BUILT AROUND BRADY IS MEDIOCRE.

    With a HC like BB and a QB like Brady in addition to the mediocre rest of the total, they equal a good team.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    I should also point out that the entire argument of 2006-present is silly because the Patriots haven't won a SB since after the 2004-2005 season.  Therefore the 2005 draft was part of this post-SB period.  Of course Tex doesn't want to include 2005 because it was one of Newsome's worst drafts while BB snagged Mankins, Hobbs and Kaczur.  Plus we managed to flip Cassel for a 2nd so that's a pretty good 7th rounder.  That is another reason that I accuse him of cherry picking.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    You really need to accurately state what I have said.

     

    I never said this team is mediocre. This is a good team.

    I have said THE TEAM BB THE GM HAS BUILT AROUND BRADY IS MEDIOCRE.

    With a HC like BB and a QB like Brady in addition to the mediocre rest of the total, they equal a good team.



    Oh I read it...I just completely disagree with it. If the "TEAM" around Brady was so mediocre, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gone 11-5 with Cassell at the helm. As great as Brady is, he still needs a (GOOD) team around him. If that (TEAM) around him was mediocre, we wouldn't be in the hunt each and every year. The day we miss the playoffs 2-3 years in a row is the day I will agree with the label "mediocre".

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    You really need to accurately state what I have said.

     

    I never said this team is mediocre. This is a good team.

    I have said THE TEAM BB THE GM HAS BUILT AROUND BRADY IS MEDIOCRE.

    With a HC like BB and a QB like Brady in addition to the mediocre rest of the total, they equal a good team.

     



    Oh I read it...I just completely disagree with it. If the "TEAM" around Brady was so mediocre, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gone 11-5 with Cassell at the helm. As great as Brady is, he still needs a (GOOD) team around him. If that (TEAM) around him was mediocre, we wouldn't be in the hunt each and every year. The day we miss the playoffs 2-3 years in a row is the day I will agree with the label "mediocre".

     




    So now you change your story as if you did not misrepresent what I said.

     

    And as far as the life preserver that people cling to in order to support their delusions that is the 2008 season, all fair observers admit that schedule was a joke.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I should also point out that the entire argument of 2006-present is silly because the Patriots haven't won a SB since after the 2004-2005 season.  Therefore the 2005 draft was part of this post-SB period.  Of course Tex doesn't want to include 2005 because it was one of Newsome's worst drafts while BB snagged Mankins, Hobbs and Kaczur.  Plus we managed to flip Cassel for a 2nd so that's a pretty good 7th rounder.  That is another reason that I accuse him of cherry picking.



         No so. Again, for at least the 4th time, I have no criticisms of BB for his drafts, from 2000-05. But, thereafter, he's done a poor job, and it's one of the main reasons why the Pats haven't won a SB since 2005. Is that so hard for you to understand?

         Now, do you wish to admit that BB has done a poor job of drafting, from 2006-2013? Or, do you wish to defend his record during that period? And please...no generalities. Please list the players that BB drafted who you think were hits during those 8 consecutive years, and why. Then, perhaps, we can hold an intelligent conversation on the subject.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Newsome has had the benefit of one of the greatest safeties and linebackers of all time anchoring his defense every year.

    RESPONSE: BB has had the benefit of havin the greatest QB of all-time run his team every year, save for the 2000 season. He also inherited several good defenders, such as Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, and Willie McGinest.

    Whose fault is it that it took him so long to find a competent QB?

    RESPONSE: Please!! QB is acknowledged by all people who know anything about pro-football as being the most difficult position to fill...and the most important. But, Newsome traded up in 2007 to land Joe Flacco. He' one of the picks that you didn't care to speak of. Even you must adnit hat the Pats were extremely lucky to score with the 199th overall pick in the 2000 draft...when they got Tom Brady. 

    He traded up to select Boller in 2003 and then proceeded to not select a QB with a high pick until Flacco.

    RESPONSE: Correct. And the Pats were the beneficiary of his move up for Boller...as the Ravens traded away their #1 pick in 2004...which the Pats used to select Vince Wilfolk.

    If part of drafting is drafting well for need like you claim then Newsome unequivocally failed for 5 seasons.

    RESPONSE: Stop trying to change the subject! No one is talking about what Newsome did, or didn't do, from 2000-05. This discusion is about BB generally poor drafts, from 2006-present...and whether his poor drafts were a major reason why the Pats haven't won a SB, since 2005. So please...stop avoiding.  

     The point here is not to disparage Ozzie who by all accounts is an excellent GM, but this whole premise of Tex's to compare BB to Ozzie and then conclude that BB is bottom of the league at drafting is just insane.

    RESPONSE: False! The only time I compared Ozzie with BB was from 2006 to present...and I used the Ravens as an example because they have outplayed the Patriots in three consecutive playoff games, in 2009, 2011, and 2012, all played in Foxborough...winning two of them, and a SB.

         My premise, for at least the 10th time now...is that BB's poor drafting from 2006-present is a major reason why the Pats haven't won another championship, since 2005. Got it!

         Now...do you agree with that premise, or disagree? If you disagree, please point out the players drafted by BB in that consecutive 8 year period, from 2006-2013, that you think were hits.  

         




     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    So now you change your story as if you did not misrepresent what I said.

     

     

    And as far as the life preserver that people cling to in order to support their delusions that is the 2008 season, all fair observers admit that schedule was a joke.

     


    I didn't "misrepresent" anything......I simply don't agree with you.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Belichick whiffs in the 3rd again...

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    So now you change your story as if you did not misrepresent what I said.

     

     

    And as far as the life preserver that people cling to in order to support their delusions that is the 2008 season, all fair observers admit that schedule was a joke.

     

     


    I didn't "misrepresent" anything......I simply don't agree with you.

     




    Yes you did.

    You said "I honestly do not understand how you can label a team (since 2006) that has been in 2 SBs, 2 AFCCGs, and in the hunt almost every year "mediocre"."

    I never said the team was mediocre. I said the team without Brady and BB is mediocre. Those are two vastly different things.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share