Belichick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TellMeTruth. Show TellMeTruth's posts

    Belichick

    All those knocking Belichick know that he's a great coach; he's just a d&@k personally. So what? That said, Mr. Kraft pays Mr. Belichick to do three things: (1) Win games - he does that.
     (2) Bring in the fans to Foxboro - he does that too; and (3) Win the SB - lately, not so much. While BB isn't go anywhere it's really #3 that Mr. Kraft wants most of all - he's an owner and that's where the money is. If nothing happens next season as to getting to, and winning, the SB I think all the Belichick blind loyalists here are going to be eating crow.

    Thoughts? And try to keep it clean and on point for a change.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    I think Bellicheck is a fantastic coach - a guaranteed Hall of Famer and I actually like his lack of personailty.  It's funny.

    What isn't funny is that he has been completely outcoached in SIX  seasons in the playoffs. 

    He lost to the broncos (Shanahan outcoached him); lost to the colts (Dungy completely outclassed him in the 2d half).  Twice to coughlin and we all know he was outcoached by Couglin.  Twice to the Ravens, AT HOME!

    Bellicheck's best coaching in the last 7 years was the year he lost Brady and almost made the playoffs with Cassell - that was amazing.  That was the old Bellicheck.

    But for the other 6 years - Bellicheck has falied miserably in the playoffs.  Yes, he gets there by crushing 75% of the league.  But in the playoffs its the same old arrogance that does him in.

    No pass rush;  no WR deep threat; zone; bend don't break garbage; no running game,

    It's always just let's line up and beat them.  Remember when the reputation was "give Bellicheck time and he will scheme to confuse any QB?"  When has that happened in the last 7 years?  Seriously - Flacco has killed us in two AFC championships (Flacco?  BB used to confuse P. Manning and now he can't confuse Flacco).

    But look at what our opponents have done.  They have all shut down Brady and the unstoppable offense by working their tails off and creating great game plans.

    Bellicheck doesn't do that anymore.  This happens with all great coaches. 

    Yes he might be the best of all time.  But no - he is not irreplaceable.  Look at the coaches in this NFL.  There are many coaches in BB's league.

    BB will never win another championship with the Patriots.  It is the natural progression of things.  Coaches are great for a time and then they can remain very good for 15 more years but they won't win a championship.

    Landry & Noll great coaches.  But they were not great at the end.  They were legends but not great and they hung on and stopped organizational progress.

    The Patriots HAVE to consider a coaching move.  It's okay.  It's not the end of the world.  It can be done respectfully and with love for what BB has done for the team.

    But if you hire a guy like Gruden - I'm telling you the fresh attitude will potentially yield two more championships before Brady retires.

    The team needs new ideas - new schemes - new energy - new focus at the coaching level.

    And yes, I love Bellicheck and would put him at the very top as a coach. 

    There is a reason that the military moves its leaders every couple of years.  Stagnancy in leadership is a sneaky, and pervasive problem.

    Will Mr. Kraft have the guts to do it?  Nope.  He values loyalty first and foremost. 

    But if we are being honest - i think a lot of people would agree with what I just wrote.

     

     

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    Edit - its actually 7 of 8 years - I forgot the year that the Jets stomped us.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fessin. Show fessin's posts

    Re: Belichick

    It make me laugh reading some of these posts.  He gets us 1 step away from the SuperBowl and everyone thinks he's lost it.  We lost gronk the game before, Talib and Love at the begining of the game, our #1 RB gets nocked out and our star rookie DE is too injured to play.  I was disappointed in the game but a lot of our fans have no perspective.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to fessin's comment:

    It make me laugh reading some of these posts.  He gets us 1 step away from the SuperBowl and everyone thinks he's lost it.  We lost gronk the game before, Talib and Love at the begining of the game, our #1 RB gets nocked out and our star rookie DE is too injured to play.  I was disappointed in the game but a lot of our fans have no perspective.




    Can you add perspective to the last 8 years?  I mean - he has been outcoached in 8 straight playoffs, hasn't he?

    Granted - he has had a better 8 years than Andy Reid - but can you explain the last 8 years and the associated trend?

    Does it not look like Chuck Noll and Tom Landry after they had won SBs?

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Can you add perspective to the last 8 years?  I mean - he has been outcoached in 8 straight playoffs, hasn't he?

    Granted - he has had a better 8 years than Andy Reid - but can you explain the last 8 years and the associated trend?

    Does it not look like Chuck Noll and Tom Landry after they had won SBs?



    It is hard to win a SB.  Many coaches do not win 1, let alone 3.  A lot of things need to go right.  Basically $%^& happens.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Belichick

    Think about this.

    There are 31 other teams with large staffs with million dollar budgets trying as hard as they can to win the Superbowl.

    Pats get close just about every years, mostly because of one or two people, depending on how you look at it.

    There is no problem here. Just a lot of highly motivated competition.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Can you add perspective to the last 8 years?  I mean - he has been outcoached in 8 straight playoffs, hasn't he?

    Granted - he has had a better 8 years than Andy Reid - but can you explain the last 8 years and the associated trend?

    Does it not look like Chuck Noll and Tom Landry after they had won SBs?

     



    It is hard to win a SB.  Many coaches do not win 1, let alone 3.  A lot of things need to go right.  Basically $%^& happens.

     



    agre..I just echo'd this ^^^

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    I agree there are 31 other teams trying to win.  But let's also agree they have the same injury challenges, the same draft challenges, and teh same budget challenges.

    I also agree that 3 SB victories puts BB in HoF territory.  I've said it - he might be the best of all time.

    I am talking about the trend in any coaches tenure. 

    Again - honestly look at the last 8 seasons.  Seven times BB has been clearly outcoached in the playoffs.  That is seven consecutive seasons (with a break for the Brady injury) where another coach has out-smarted BB. 

    The Patriots were favored in SIX of those contests (I think Denver was favored at home).  So the fact remains - they were positioned to win and were outcoached; not just once - but seven seasons!

    There is no franchise that would accept that futility.  But BB has the resume of 3 previous SB wins that is preventing honest assessment of 8 straight seasons of soul-crushing defeat. 

    The team needs "new" - new ideas start at the coach level.  Not at the LB or safety or guard level.

     

    So we will cling to BB - juyst like Pitssburgh and Dallas were willing to cling to Noll and Landry and they never won again (until they got new coaches).

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Belichick

    Trying to be objective. It's fairly obvious BB has not to do with the offense. Brady and McD have done an admiral job at 35 pts per game. And remeber there allowed to have a bad day. BB is the Defensive guru and after som many years of poor "D" selections in the draft, no shut down corners or pass rushers it might be time to start asking a simple question:

     

    Is it Brady or BB? Well TB has the #1 rated offense.

     

    Not time to move on from BB but it's time for a strong D cord. and General Manager.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    I agree there are 31 other teams trying to win.  But let's also agree they have the same injury challenges, the same draft challenges, and teh same budget challenges.

    I also agree that 3 SB victories puts BB in HoF territory.  I've said it - he might be the best of all time.

    I am talking about the trend in any coaches tenure. 

    Again - honestly look at the last 8 seasons.  Seven times BB has been clearly outcoached in the playoffs.  That is seven consecutive seasons (with a break for the Brady injury) where another coach has out-smarted BB. 

    The Patriots were favored in SIX of those contests (I think Denver was favored at home).  So the fact remains - they were positioned to win and were outcoached; not just once - but seven seasons!

    There is no franchise that would accept that futility.  But BB has the resume of 3 previous SB wins that is preventing honest assessment of 8 straight seasons of soul-crushing defeat. 

    The team needs "new" - new ideas start at the coach level.  Not at the LB or safety or guard level.

     

    So we will cling to BB - juyst like Pitssburgh and Dallas were willing to cling to Noll and Landry and they never won again (until they got new coaches).

     

     

     




    I do think some good coaches have noticed BB tendencies and have adjusted.

    Didn't this game look earily like the SB's vs NYG and the SF game first half?

    BB pulls out some new wrinkles once in a while, I think the adjustments he makes to this whipping will be intersting.

    Yes..we are 'stuck' wit him..and I do not mind. He is still capable of surprising us.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    I think Bellicheck is a fantastic coach - a guaranteed Hall of Famer and I actually like his lack of personailty.  It's funny.

    What isn't funny is that he has been completely outcoached in SIX  seasons in the playoffs. 

    He lost to the broncos (Shanahan outcoached him); lost to the colts (Dungy completely outclassed him in the 2d half).  Twice to coughlin and we all know he was outcoached by Couglin.  Twice to the Ravens, AT HOME!

    Bellicheck's best coaching in the last 7 years was the year he lost Brady and almost made the playoffs with Cassell - that was amazing.  That was the old Bellicheck.

    But for the other 6 years - Bellicheck has falied miserably in the playoffs.  Yes, he gets there by crushing 75% of the league.  But in the playoffs its the same old arrogance that does him in.

    No pass rush;  no WR deep threat; zone; bend don't break garbage; no running game,

    It's always just let's line up and beat them.  Remember when the reputation was "give Bellicheck time and he will scheme to confuse any QB?"  When has that happened in the last 7 years?  Seriously - Flacco has killed us in two AFC championships (Flacco?  BB used to confuse P. Manning and now he can't confuse Flacco).

    But look at what our opponents have done.  They have all shut down Brady and the unstoppable offense by working their tails off and creating great game plans.

    Bellicheck doesn't do that anymore.  This happens with all great coaches. 

    Yes he might be the best of all time.  But no - he is not irreplaceable.  Look at the coaches in this NFL.  There are many coaches in BB's league.

    BB will never win another championship with the Patriots.  It is the natural progression of things.  Coaches are great for a time and then they can remain very good for 15 more years but they won't win a championship.

    Landry & Noll great coaches.  But they were not great at the end.  They were legends but not great and they hung on and stopped organizational progress.

    The Patriots HAVE to consider a coaching move.  It's okay.  It's not the end of the world.  It can be done respectfully and with love for what BB has done for the team.

    But if you hire a guy like Gruden - I'm telling you the fresh attitude will potentially yield two more championships before Brady retires.

    The team needs new ideas - new schemes - new energy - new focus at the coaching level.

    And yes, I love Bellicheck and would put him at the very top as a coach. 

    There is a reason that the military moves its leaders every couple of years.  Stagnancy in leadership is a sneaky, and pervasive problem.

    Will Mr. Kraft have the guts to do it?  Nope.  He values loyalty first and foremost. 

    But if we are being honest - i think a lot of people would agree with what I just wrote




    This is probably the dumbest assessment of the state of the Patriots that I've seen in awhile. First off - as BB says, you can say whatever you want as coach, but the players play the game, and they played a crappy one yesterday.

    Second, the lack of talent is sure as heck not for not trying. BB went out to get Haynesworth, OchoCinco, Fanene, and a ton of others to try to address the problems that the Pats have had - unfortunately most of those attempts have failed. But he's tried.
     He's taken big gambles - if only a few of them had worked out we'd be hoisting another couple of lombardis at least.

    Third - how ret@rded can you be to suggest that the coach of the Pats, who has taken the team to 5 SUPERBOWLS and 7 AFC Championships in 12 years is losing his ability to coach and will "never get back to the superbowl". Wow... just wow - you do realize that there are 30 other teams in the NFL, and quite a few of them have had significantly more "talent" and NOT MADE IT. No - Gruden would obviously be a better choice than BB - I mean, he's such a great announcer getting people's name wrong all the time...

    Last, we lost the superbowl the first time because of a miracle once in a lifetime catch, not to mention flagrant non calls for holding and not blowing the whistle when Eli should have been sacked 10 yards behind scrimmage. BTW - where is that guy who caught the ball from Eli - oh yeah, not even in the NFL anymore...  Last year we lost because we made mistakes - pretty bad ones - but none of that was coaching. Pretty sure BB's never told Tom to get a safety on the first play of the game, nor is it coaching that tom and welker couldn't connect on a relatively routine pass they'd make 99% of the time. Coaching had very little to do with who won those games.  Uncharacteristic mistakes made by the players did.

    Sorry if this comes across as insulting, but people on this board have long needed to start to think more rationally, and this is just one of the examples that show how insane some comments can be.


    We'll be back in the fight next year. Will we win another superbowl? who knows. But as long as BB is coach of this team I feel we'll have a much better chance than most other teams. If you want to root for stupid knew jerk reactions then there's a team in NJ which needs a new guy to dress up in a green firefighter costume.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    Not insulted at all by your response. 

    I expect your opinion is the majority opinion.  Just as the majority of Pittsburgh fans watched Noll fail for 12 years.

    Some responses to your points however:

    1.  No points for trying - Bellicheck has tried?  Who cares?

    2.  Yes, the players play the game.  So if the players get the blame for yesterday's loss - why are you giving BB credit for 3 SB victories?  Se the flaw in that?

    3.  Can someone please address 8 straight seasons, 7 of which the patriots were big favorites in their last game (all of which ended in LOSING)?

    The team desperately needs a new coach.  Make BB teh GM if you must - but please some new ideas.  8 straight fails is enough.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Belichick

    BB stated he was outcoached, and I agree.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Belichick

    Here's the biggest problem.

    Outside of 2010, BB really hasn't been able to beat legit elite teams since '07.

    We all called the Broncos overrated...so they don't count

    Called the Texans frauds they don't count.

    Last season, they lost to all the good teams on their schedule. Only win was off a lucky Sterling Moore play and a bad Cundiff kick.

    They lost to the Giants and Steelers last season. Lost to SEA, SF and Bal this season.

    BB has been a genius against bad teams the last couple of seasons.

    AFC North and NFC South next season.  Hopefully he figures this out.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    Here's the biggest problem.

    Outside of 2010, BB really hasn't been able to beat legit elite teams since '07.

    We all called the Broncos overrated...so they don't count

    Called the Texans frauds they don't count.

    Last season, they lost to all the good teams on their schedule. Only win was off a lucky Sterling Moore play and a bad Cundiff kick.

    They lost to the Giants and Steelers last season. Lost to SEA, SF and Bal this season.

    BB has been a genius against bad teams the last couple of seasons.

    AFC North and NFC South next season.  Hopefully he figures this out.



    yeah, but they beat denver, houston, indy this season too, all playoff teams.

    the win in the afccg last year wasn't luck

    problem last night was execution, and defense kinda wilted, since the offense kept sputtering

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    Here's the biggest problem.

    Outside of 2010, BB really hasn't been able to beat legit elite teams since '07.

    We all called the Broncos overrated...so they don't count

    Called the Texans frauds they don't count.

    Last season, they lost to all the good teams on their schedule. Only win was off a lucky Sterling Moore play and a bad Cundiff kick.

    They lost to the Giants and Steelers last season. Lost to SEA, SF and Bal this season.

    BB has been a genius against bad teams the last couple of seasons.

    AFC North and NFC South next season.  Hopefully he figures this out.

     



    yeah, but they beat denver, houston, indy this season too, all playoff teams.

     

    the win in the afccg last year wasn't luck

    problem last night was execution, and defense kinda wilted, since the offense kept sputtering

     



    There are different tiers of playoff teams. Vikings may have made the playoffs, but beating the Vikings and 49ers are two completely different things.

    All those teams that you listed, yeah they made the playoffs, but people all over this board were saying those teams weren't legit. By that account, you can't say the Pats beat a legit team then. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fatsam72. Show fatsam72's posts

    Re: Belichick

    I won't say I agree with S-G completely, but it's a gutsy post, and well articulated.  We all agree the magic is gone - we tend to disagree on it's origin.   Coaching innovation may, may mind you, be at the heart of it.  

    It ain't all Brady - sorry Rusty - and it ain't all GM moves - sorry Babe- maybe it is the game day coaching itself.  

    I don't know.  It's sure as isht is something though.   

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to TellMeTruth's comment:

    All those knocking Belichick know that he's a great coach; he's just a d&@k personally. So what? That said, Mr. Kraft pays Mr. Belichick to do three things: (1) Win games - he does that.
     (2) Bring in the fans to Foxboro - he does that too; and (3) Win the SB - lately, not so much. While BB isn't go anywhere it's really #3 that Mr. Kraft wants most of all - he's an owner and that's where the money is. If nothing happens next season as to getting to, and winning, the SB I think all the Belichick blind loyalists here are going to be eating crow.

    Thoughts? And try to keep it clean and on point for a change.

     



    Taking care of #1and#2 keep him in good standing .  Hosting 2 playoff games is an ENORMOUS bonus.

    Still as a FAN... I get burnt out on the arrogant approach to these big game gameplans.  Its played , its predictable , and its producing stupid losses. When a team loses like pats did last night , its a reflection on the coaches.  Players didn't have the edge necessary for the win.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Belichick

    If we look at the fundamental difference between the NFL today vs the NFL of days gone bye. The salary cap has played a huge role in creating parity. In terms of dynastic teams...dating back to the old NFL When Green Bay was the first of the Superbowl ERA teams to earn that distinction. All of the teams that won multiple Super Bowls that stayed near or at the top went through a decade or more before they won again...The 49ers of the 80's played in an era where they could spent whatever they needed to field the best teams and did...The Patriot's even in the salary cap era have had sustained success...think about it, they were a couple of series from having won 5 superbowls...in the salary cap era...The Ravens have been near or at the top of the AFC for more than a decade and this is there second trip in 13 years. So while we all lament the loss to the Ravens and both of our losses to the Giants. We're truly witnessing one of the most remarkable feats in NFL history...Had we won both of the last two against the Giants given the confines of the salary cap. The Patriots would be in the argument as the best franchise in the history of the game. 

    The good news for all of us, not so much for Jet fans, is that the run ain't over and next year and for the foreseeable future we're going to be in the hunt...we may never win another but it won't be due to incompetence of the clubs leadership...It might well be that we never get the formula right and continue to be snake bitten by the injury bug. Remember there's a handful of clubs that every year enter the season as Superbowl contenders...Attrition elimantes many of them...that's why it's tough to repeat and even tougher just to get there. Enjoy the ride and instead of belittling  our opponents. Let's tip our cap, and give them the respect their due for beating one of the best teams in the history of the game. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Belichick

    After watching Bellicheck yesterday - it is obvious that he will be back; also it is obvious that nothing will change.

    We will run the same offense and defense we have failed with over the last 8 seasons. 

    Of course, we will will the division - and we will host a playoff game.  So everything will be awesome again.

    Meanwhile, some other team will actually have so much hunger for a SB victory we will be shocked and dismayed when they win it all.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick

    I'd like to see Belichick's interviews from his time in cleveland and maybe 2000 in NE.  Its my bet that he has evolved and become increasingly difficult as he's had success.  Maybe not. 

    Belichick is not unlike Bob Knight.  Brilliant coach, flawed public persona of his own doing. 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Belichick

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    I'd like to see Belichick's interviews from his time in cleveland and maybe 2000 in NE.  Its my bet that he has evolved and become increasingly difficult as he's had success.  Maybe not. 

    Belichick is not unlike Bob Knight.  Brilliant coach, flawed public persona of his own doing. 

     




     

    Here is an article with some background info. make of it what you will as different people will dissect it differently.

    http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2005/04/bill-belichick-and-the-new-england-media




    Jri - makes sense and I am not surprised.  Even in media friendly Indiana, there were detractors of Knight's while he was wildly successful.  They weren't wrong.  And they aren't necessarily wrong in NE. 

    I am not defending the media, because sometimes they take their charge too far, but that said they still have a job to do and people like Knight and Belichick inhibit their ability to do that job. 

    Nobody is going to deny Belichick's coaching brilliance.  Same as Knight.  When their days are done, they can die knowing that they probably did that job as well as anyone else, public persona be damned. 

    I used to be a huge Knight backer.  I am no longer.  Many of the things he did are beyond rational acceptance.  Belichick's not been that bad.  Yes, he's a d_ck to the media, and yes he is about as poor a loser as there is, no he's not a role model, and yes he does have that taping thing that will always follow him, but aside from the taping (which is debated ad nauseum), the rest of the stuff can be excused.  Not so in Knight's case. 

    When all is said and done, Belichick, imo, will be revered not just for his success, but for his dedication to his job. 

     
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