Benny Watch

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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to PatsEng's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    Again, congrats to Benny.  1,000 yards is nothing sneeze at, especially with a weak O Line like that and a 2nd year QB.

     

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    1000 yards isn't that impressive when you have the 30th best ypc in the league (at least 70 atts).

     

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    So that must mean you don't think Foster is impressive either since his ypc is worse then BJGE's. Is that right Babe?

    BTW he's actually the 23rd in the league in ypc for RB's with over 70 carries  of which there are 49! That means he's middle of the pack at worst. 

    Where did you get that 70 number from anyways? Seems very random, I mean that's less then what most back up RB's average and most back up RB's have a higher then normal ypc average since they are brought in as change of pace or to catch opposing teams D's off guard. Unless you are telling me that Hunter, Richardson, and Brown are better then Ridley, Foster, or Forte because they certainly have better ypc numbers

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    Of course it's random. He manipulates numbers more so than General Motors.

    Didn't you know that BJGE isn't a good lead back and wouldn't have helped us in the SB? Didn't you know that GM was kicking the Japanese Auto market's behind the last 20 years even though we all saw more and more Accords and Camrys on the road?

    Didn't you know? Didn't you know 2+2 = 5?

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    2+2 does = 5.  Jesus, Rusty, your brain is just too dense!

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    The problem with Benny I believe is that he had (and continues to have) far too many runs that go for less than 3 yards.  Every back is going to get some of those "stuffs" (and often they are the O-line's fault, not the back's)  but if you get too many of them and have trouble turning that 1 or 2 yarder into a 3 or 4 yarder, you really hurt the effectiveness of the running game.  Having too many of those stuffed-runs actually forces a team to pass more because you end up in second and long or third and long too often. 

    Some of the perception that the run was "predictable" last year comes from the fact that in obvious running situations, the run tended not to work.  We have plenty of equally "predictable" runs this year, but Ridley and Vereen are much more likely to get gains of more than 3 yards in those situations. 

    Six carries for six yards may control clock a bit, but it's not a terribly effective strategy for doing so since it tends to force passing and may result in more punts than desirable.  The real way to kill clock at the end of a game is to run but with runs averaging 4 yards per carry.  When Brady said in the offseason that the Pats needed to improve their 4-minute offense, he was talking about being able to run at a 4 ypc or greater clip at the end of the game when the opponents were expecting run.  This is something that True Champ never gets.  The game isn't only about deception.  Really good offenses can execute successfully even when everyone in the stadium knows what they are going to do.  In the Broncos game this year, in the first half, everytime Brady was under center, the Pats ran.  Everytime he was in shotgun they passed.  It was completely predictable.  It was blatantly obvious, actually.  But they still ran well.  That's the difference between this year and last year.  Last year, with Benny, they needed some deception or the run didn't work.  This year they can run when everyone in the world knows they are running. Think (for another example) of the Vereen run on Monday night, when Brady motions Vereen into the backfield from a spread formation and then motioned Lloyd to line up tight.  It was obvious he was changing the play to a run, but Vereen still got 4 or 5 yards.  That's what a good running game does.  It gets yards even when the defense knows you are running. 

     

     

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    Hey Pro, how are ya brother? I think you and I are coming to a middle ground here. I understand what you are saying and agree that Benny was not fantastic at producing extra yards on his talent alone, although I think he is a way tougher back then you guys give him credit for. He does push the pile forward and fall forward on almost every run.

    Now with that said I agree Ridley can "make things happen" so to speak, but at the same time other then the Fins game we have trouble producing positive yardage in obvious run formations this year as well. Probably the reason Rids numbers have gone from 6-5-4.5 ypc. If you don't see him getting stuffed often in our 2 TE heavy run sets then you have been lying to yourself.

    With all that said BJGE DID perform in the playoff games against the Ravens and the Giants, and all I have ever said is that we should have used that run game more in order to keep the Gints from limiting Brady(opening up the offense) I don't care about 50-50 balance every game, and I think you know that. I care about not being obvious and falling back on Brady to carry us. I think that is what we did most of the time OB was here. If we disagree then so be it, but I don't see how any Patriot fan could look at our offense last year and deny it was one dimensional and deny that style had a negative impact on our post season success.

    And if that is true then we should have ran BJGE/Ridley/Vareen/Woodhead/or signed a street FA RB in order to utilize and commit to a run game so that we could have increased offensive efficiency....kind of what BB and McD have done this season.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:
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    In response to csylvia79's comment:
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    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:
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    ridley is clearly a superior running back to BJGE......i wish they would have used ridley in the super bowl.....but it is what it is. however, BJGE is a pretty good back, and a very good short yardage back.

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    Totally agree with you lawfirm was serviceable and great on short yardage but did he ever have a homerun run for the Pats?

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    i dont think so, which is why i think ridley is the better back.....he is definitely more capable of breaking off a long run and breaks off 20+ yard runs consistently....im not surprised benny is having success in cincy because he is a good back, he just isnt the home run hitter that some wanted him to be.....one thing i would like to say though, is that andy dalton isnt just "some guy"...he is a good qb and he has one of the best receivers in the game which also helps with the predictability of the running game. obviously ridley has the better job being the running back of the pats because brady can chuck it all over the yard, but i just dont think its fair to say dalton is just "some guy". just my opinion.

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    Of course Ridley is better. He was drafted in the 3rd rd.   However, that's not the premise.

    Babe, Mt Hurl and Pezzy's anti-BB/pro Brady-tinged premise is BJGE wasn't worthy of helping this team win a SB.

    That's false.

    I'd bet money, in fact, I already know this, BJGE had MUCH stronger numbers when used as our lead back v.s. being subbed in and out and not getting to 15 carries.

    I've done the research. In fact, and this sting BADLY for the trolls/irrationals: We never lost  a game in 2010 or 2011 when BJGE was the lead back.

    OUCH. OUCH.

    Just think, if Brady had that data in front of him pre-Super Bowl, does he insist BJGE is used as the lead back with Brady more under center to utlizie their best power back and confuse the Giants from an all out pass rush gameplan, or does he ignore that data?

    OUCH.

    Hurts, doesn't it?  This team NEVER lost when BJGE was the feature back in this offense.

     

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    Dense!  It is not false or the coaches would have used him more.  How many 49'rs did Benny rip off here, again?  Where was that big run in the SB when the gints didn't give a flip when he carried the ball and keyed in on the pass?

    There is no "imagining" what could have been as the coaches, based on what was working, obviously couldn't fathom it.Perhaps if there had been a long run or 2 it woiuld have been different.  But there wasn't.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    Benny suks...

     

    RK PLAYER TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG 20+ TD YDS/G FUM 1DN

    1 Adrian Peterson, RB MIN 265 1,600 6.0 82 18 10 123.1 3 64

    2 Marshawn Lynch, RB SEA 261 1,266 4.9 77 6 9 97.4 3 56

    3 Alfred Morris, RB WSH 253 1,235 4.9 39 7 7 95.0 4 62

    4 Doug Martin, RB TB 264 1,234 4.7 70 9 10 94.9 1 50

    5 Jamaal Charles, RB KC 240 1,220 5.1 91 7 4 93.8 4 54

    6 Arian Foster, RB HOU 298 1,148 3.9 46 5 14 88.3 2 68

    7 Stevan Ridley, RB NE 243 1,082 4.5 41 6 10 83.2 3 70

    8 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB CIN 263 1,080 4.1 48 7 6 77.1 3 54

     

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    Plays of 20 yards or more...Ridley = 6 BJGE = 7. Season long....Ridley = 41 BJGE = 48.

    Well the bengals must just have a better line then the Patriots that's all....LOL, because Benny obviously isn't very talented.

    Priceless.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    Don't look now but Stevan ridley averaging 3.9 ypc since the bye week. Does that mean that he suks too? Damn it, I thought he was good, oh well I guess him and Arian Foster will be released soon.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Benny suks...

     

    RK PLAYER TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG 20+ TD YDS/G FUM 1DN

    1 Adrian Peterson, RB MIN 265 1,600 6.0 82 18 10 123.1 3 64

    2 Marshawn Lynch, RB SEA 261 1,266 4.9 77 6 9 97.4 3 56

    3 Alfred Morris, RB WSH 253 1,235 4.9 39 7 7 95.0 4 62

    4 Doug Martin, RB TB 264 1,234 4.7 70 9 10 94.9 1 50

    5 Jamaal Charles, RB KC 240 1,220 5.1 91 7 4 93.8 4 54

    6 Arian Foster, RB HOU 298 1,148 3.9 46 5 14 88.3 2 68

    7 Stevan Ridley, RB NE 243 1,082 4.5 41 6 10 83.2 3 70

    8 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB CIN 263 1,080 4.1 48 7 6 77.1 3 54

     

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    This list is bogus and you know it, TrueChamp.  Arian Foster SUX because he has a 3.9 YPC average.  That's lower than the league average!  He is a below-average starter but a good back-up running back.  Get a clue and try not to be so dense!

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:
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    In response to csylvia79's comment:
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    ridley is clearly a superior running back to BJGE......i wish they would have used ridley in the super bowl.....but it is what it is. however, BJGE is a pretty good back, and a very good short yardage back.

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    Totally agree with you lawfirm was serviceable and great on short yardage but did he ever have a homerun run for the Pats?

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    i dont think so, which is why i think ridley is the better back.....he is definitely more capable of breaking off a long run and breaks off 20+ yard runs consistently....im not surprised benny is having success in cincy because he is a good back, he just isnt the home run hitter that some wanted him to be.....one thing i would like to say though, is that andy dalton isnt just "some guy"...he is a good qb and he has one of the best receivers in the game which also helps with the predictability of the running game. obviously ridley has the better job being the running back of the pats because brady can chuck it all over the yard, but i just dont think its fair to say dalton is just "some guy". just my opinion.

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    Of course Ridley is better. He was drafted in the 3rd rd.   However, that's not the premise.

    Babe, Mt Hurl and Pezzy's anti-BB/pro Brady-tinged premise is BJGE wasn't worthy of helping this team win a SB.

    That's false.

    I'd bet money, in fact, I already know this, BJGE had MUCH stronger numbers when used as our lead back v.s. being subbed in and out and not getting to 15 carries.

    I've done the research. In fact, and this sting BADLY for the trolls/irrationals: We never lost  a game in 2010 or 2011 when BJGE was the lead back.

    OUCH. OUCH.

    Just think, if Brady had that data in front of him pre-Super Bowl, does he insist BJGE is used as the lead back with Brady more under center to utlizie their best power back and confuse the Giants from an all out pass rush gameplan, or does he ignore that data?

    OUCH.

    Hurts, doesn't it?  This team NEVER lost when BJGE was the feature back in this offense.

     

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    Dense!  It is not false or the coaches would have used him more.  How many 49'rs did Benny rip off here, again?  Where was that big run in the SB when the gints didn't give a flip when he carried the ball and keyed in on the pass?

    There is no "imagining" what could have been as the coaches, based on what was working, obviously couldn't fathom it.Perhaps if there had been a long run or 2 it woiuld have been different.  But there wasn't.

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    NE never lost a game when BJGE was the lead back in a gameplan in 2010 or 2011.

    OUCH.

    Can't run from that fact, Pezzy.  Brady and McDaniels panicked after the opening drive in the 3rd qtr vs the Giants. That simple. They thought  by running more shotgun and more Woodhead, that puts the pedal to metal and the risky elements to it, contributed to the loss.

    Can't get around it, Pezzy. You've tried and tried, but you lost.

    [/QUOTE]

    Uh, Benny was the lead back in the SB wasn't he?  DOH  Just because he didn't carry 25 x's doesn't mean he wasn't the lead.  It means he wasn't good enough to carry it 25x's.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    Well benny averaged 4.4 ypc and Woody averaged 2.6 ypc. Maybe the coaches were wrong and Benny should have been used against a weak run defense a little more then he was? OMG OMG True Champ said the coaches might have been wrong...OMG

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to csylvia79's comment:
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    ridley is clearly a superior running back to BJGE......i wish they would have used ridley in the super bowl.....but it is what it is. however, BJGE is a pretty good back, and a very good short yardage back.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree with you lawfirm was serviceable and great on short yardage but did he ever have a homerun run for the Pats?

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    i dont think so, which is why i think ridley is the better back.....he is definitely more capable of breaking off a long run and breaks off 20+ yard runs consistently....im not surprised benny is having success in cincy because he is a good back, he just isnt the home run hitter that some wanted him to be.....one thing i would like to say though, is that andy dalton isnt just "some guy"...he is a good qb and he has one of the best receivers in the game which also helps with the predictability of the running game. obviously ridley has the better job being the running back of the pats because brady can chuck it all over the yard, but i just dont think its fair to say dalton is just "some guy". just my opinion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course Ridley is better. He was drafted in the 3rd rd.   However, that's not the premise.

    Babe, Mt Hurl and Pezzy's anti-BB/pro Brady-tinged premise is BJGE wasn't worthy of helping this team win a SB.

    That's false.

    I'd bet money, in fact, I already know this, BJGE had MUCH stronger numbers when used as our lead back v.s. being subbed in and out and not getting to 15 carries.

    I've done the research. In fact, and this sting BADLY for the trolls/irrationals: We never lost  a game in 2010 or 2011 when BJGE was the lead back.

    OUCH. OUCH.

    Just think, if Brady had that data in front of him pre-Super Bowl, does he insist BJGE is used as the lead back with Brady more under center to utlizie their best power back and confuse the Giants from an all out pass rush gameplan, or does he ignore that data?

    OUCH.

    Hurts, doesn't it?  This team NEVER lost when BJGE was the feature back in this offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dense!  It is not false or the coaches would have used him more.  How many 49'rs did Benny rip off here, again?  Where was that big run in the SB when the gints didn't give a flip when he carried the ball and keyed in on the pass?

    There is no "imagining" what could have been as the coaches, based on what was working, obviously couldn't fathom it.Perhaps if there had been a long run or 2 it woiuld have been different.  But there wasn't.

    [/QUOTE]

    NE never lost a game when BJGE was the lead back in a gameplan in 2010 or 2011.

    OUCH.

    Can't run from that fact, Pezzy.  Brady and McDaniels panicked after the opening drive in the 3rd qtr vs the Giants. That simple. They thought  by running more shotgun and more Woodhead, that puts the pedal to metal and the risky elements to it, contributed to the loss.

    Can't get around it, Pezzy. You've tried and tried, but you lost.

    [/QUOTE]

    Uh, Benny was the lead back in the SB wasn't he?  DOH  Just because he didn't carry 25 x's doesn't mean he wasn't the lead.  It means he wasn't good enough to carry it 25x's.

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    No, he wasnt. Woodhead had almost as many plays and carries.  Duh. For all intents and purposes, they split the load. We'll take that desperate point of yours as the last bullet in the chamber.

    Good day.

     

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    Almost?  LOL Almost only counts in hangrenades.  He was the lead and they lost, just admit it.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    Rusty there are very few lead backs in the NFL anymore.  A lot of teams are doing RB by committee.  Last year only 2 backs exceeded 300 carries.  Almost every team I have watched subs out their running backs during drives.  I have no idea why you think this is such a big deal.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Of course Ridley is better. He was drafted in the 3rd rd.   However, that's not the premise.

    Babe, Mt Hurl and Pezzy's anti-BB/pro Brady-tinged premise is BJGE wasn't worthy of helping this team win a SB.

    That's false.

    I'd bet money, in fact, I already know this, BJGE had MUCH stronger numbers when used as our lead back v.s. being subbed in and out and not getting to 15 carries.

    I've done the research. In fact, and this sting BADLY for the trolls/irrationals: We never lost  a game in 2010 or 2011 when BJGE was the lead back.

    OUCH. OUCH.

    Just think, if Brady had that data in front of him pre-Super Bowl, does he insist BJGE is used as the lead back with Brady more under center to utlizie their best power back and confuse the Giants from an all out pass rush gameplan, or does he ignore that data?

    OUCH.

    Hurts, doesn't it?  This team NEVER lost when BJGE was the feature back in this offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    The team went 27-5 in 2010 and 2011 (29-7 including playoffs).  They rarely lost in ANY situation.  Hell, they ended 2011 going 8-0 with Benny not getting more than 12 carries in any game but one; that one was a 34-3 blowout of KC where he only had 11 carries until the game was settled at 24-3.

    In the 2 regular season losses in 2010, Benny ran 10 times for 19 yards, and 9 for 14.  The reason he had so many games where he had less than your magical 15-carry limit is because he had so many games where he was just plain ineffective.  Better running backs can work through mediocre games, because even bad runs means the defense has to account for them.  Defenses NEVER changed their game plan for Benny.  If he wasn't running well, it was HURTING our offense.

    That said, Rusty's right in that they should have used him more in the Super Bowl, because he was EFFECTIVE.

    I like Benny.  I wish he were still here as a back-up.  But he's not, and our running game is better than it has been for the past 5 years.  And he's having a better season than he did in any of his 4 years with us, and I hope he continues to run well.  It's win-win.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    ridley is clearly a superior running back to BJGE......i wish they would have used ridley in the super bowl.....but it is what it is. however, BJGE is a pretty good back, and a very good short yardage back.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree with you lawfirm was serviceable and great on short yardage but did he ever have a homerun run for the Pats?

    [/QUOTE]

    i dont think so, which is why i think ridley is the better back.....he is definitely more capable of breaking off a long run and breaks off 20+ yard runs consistently....im not surprised benny is having success in cincy because he is a good back, he just isnt the home run hitter that some wanted him to be.....one thing i would like to say though, is that andy dalton isnt just "some guy"...he is a good qb and he has one of the best receivers in the game which also helps with the predictability of the running game. obviously ridley has the better job being the running back of the pats because brady can chuck it all over the yard, but i just dont think its fair to say dalton is just "some guy". just my opinion.

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course Ridley is better. He was drafted in the 3rd rd.   However, that's not the premise.

    Babe, Mt Hurl and Pezzy's anti-BB/pro Brady-tinged premise is BJGE wasn't worthy of helping this team win a SB.

    That's false.

    I'd bet money, in fact, I already know this, BJGE had MUCH stronger numbers when used as our lead back v.s. being subbed in and out and not getting to 15 carries.

    I've done the research. In fact, and this sting BADLY for the trolls/irrationals: We never lost  a game in 2010 or 2011 when BJGE was the lead back.

    OUCH. OUCH.

    Just think, if Brady had that data in front of him pre-Super Bowl, does he insist BJGE is used as the lead back with Brady more under center to utlizie their best power back and confuse the Giants from an all out pass rush gameplan, or does he ignore that data?

    OUCH.

    Hurts, doesn't it?  This team NEVER lost when BJGE was the feature back in this offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dense!  It is not false or the coaches would have used him more.  How many 49'rs did Benny rip off here, again?  Where was that big run in the SB when the gints didn't give a flip when he carried the ball and keyed in on the pass?

    There is no "imagining" what could have been as the coaches, based on what was working, obviously couldn't fathom it.Perhaps if there had been a long run or 2 it woiuld have been different.  But there wasn't.

    [/QUOTE]

    NE never lost a game when BJGE was the lead back in a gameplan in 2010 or 2011.

    OUCH.

    Can't run from that fact, Pezzy.  Brady and McDaniels panicked after the opening drive in the 3rd qtr vs the Giants. That simple. They thought  by running more shotgun and more Woodhead, that puts the pedal to metal and the risky elements to it, contributed to the loss.

    Can't get around it, Pezzy. You've tried and tried, but you lost.

    [/QUOTE]

    Uh, Benny was the lead back in the SB wasn't he?  DOH  Just because he didn't carry 25 x's doesn't mean he wasn't the lead.  It means he wasn't good enough to carry it 25x's.

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    No, he wasnt. Woodhead had almost as many plays and carries.  Duh. For all intents and purposes, they split the load. We'll take that desperate point of yours as the last bullet in the chamber.

    Good day.

     

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    Almost?  LOL Almost only counts in hangrenades.  He was the lead and they lost, just admit it.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, he was not. A true lead back isn't splitting carries with another.  Ray Rice is a lead back, for example.

    What do you think your IQ is?  Did you ever take the test? Everyone else here knows that essentially splitting carries, means the load isn't given to a lead back.

    What's MORE: Woodhead was used more so in the 4th qtr than BJGE which proves how wrong you are. Keep in mind, Brady threw an INT, threw high, etc with Woodhead used the most at those points of the game.

     

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    Please don't talk about IQ when you can't see or admit he was the lead back.  NE always splits carries.  That's why they carry 5 backs.  He was the lead.

    You are just too dopey to recognize that they go with what works.  16 straight pass completions (a NFL SB record) works.  Negative yardage to put the team in 3rd and 14's, don't.

    Do you think they should have run Benny more in the Steelers game when he averaged 1.9 with a long of 3?

    You are also too dopey to realize that 8 possession games limit runs due to the lack of opportunities  (4 less possessions) and the urgent need to move the ball and score quickly.

     
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    Re: Benny Watch

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    After the INT drive by Brady, here is the Welker dropped pass drive where BJGE was subbed in and out for Woodhead, only on the field twice on the drive, for, guess what? Subbed runs:

     

     New England Patriots at 9:24NYGNWE 1st and 10 at NE 8 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to A.Hernandez [L.Joseph].     2nd and 10 at NE 8 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 13 for 5 yards (J.Williams).     3rd and 5 at NE 13 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to D.Woodhead to NE 32 for 19 yards (D.Grant).     1st and 10 at NE 32 B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 35 for 3 yards (J.Pierre-Paul). NYG-A.Rolle was injured during the play. His return is Probable.     2nd and 7 at NE 35 (Shotgun) W.Welker left end to NE 46 for 11 yards (K.Phillips).     1st and 10 at NE 46 D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 47 for 1 yard (J.Tuck).     2nd and 9 at NE 47 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NYG 47 for 6 yards (P.Amukamara).     3rd and 3 at NYG 47 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 4 yards (M.Boley).     1st and 10 at NYG 43 (Run formation) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NYG 44 for -1 yards (C.Canty).     2nd and 11 at NYG 44 (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to W.Welker.     3rd and 11 at NYG 44 T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to D.Branch (C.Webster).     4th and 11 at NYG 44 Z.Mesko punts 32 yards to NYG 12, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon.     DRIVE TOTALS: NYG 15, NE 17, 11 plays, 48 yards, 5:31 elapsed

     

     

    This alone proves Woodhead was the lead back in the second half after the main TD drive where BJGE was the lead back.

     

    Only you and your fellow Washers would think that Woodhead is a lead back in this league.  Scatbacks are not lead backs.  When this team uses a scatback or Woodhead too much, we lose. Period.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    God how pathetic.  One 3rd down run and 1 first down run makes Woody the lead back?

    Did you happen to notice Benny's one run for -1 in there and  the other for 3 yards?    That gives him an avarage of 1ypc on that possession.   BWAHAAAA  Brilliant, just brilliant!

     
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