Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    speaking of Matt Birk did anyone read Matt Lights MMQB Tuesday edition today? It was good and really showed how smart he is.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    It really doesn't surprise me that no one here would consider Marvin Harrison's hands as the best.  I don't think anyone exceeds his ability to make a catch.  Only Rice has more.  Someone might want to consider his hands the best.

    As for Tandems - I think Stalworth and Swann.  Rice and Taylor.  Clayton & Duper.  Bruce and Holt.  Harrison and Wayne.  all of these tandems have both great receivers, longevity together, and success. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Hard to beat the hands of Moss or Cris Carter.  As for corps, the '98 Vikings with Moss, Carter and Jake Reed are worth considering, with two sure HOFers.  BTW, Lynn Swann was MONEY in the Super Bowls but he had a very mediocre career: 3 Pro Bowls, 5,400 yards and 51 TDs.  Versus Carter, 13,800 yards/130 TDs, Moss, 13,200 yards/135 TDs and even Jake Reed, 7,000 yards/36 TDs.  Jake Reed, a 3rd WR most of his career, actually had more career yards than Swann.  That puts Swann's non Super Bowl career into proper perspective.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

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    Didn't read the title correctly.  As for a receiving corps.  For one year I like the Colts 04 team of Harrison, Wayne, Stokely (the precursor to Welker), and the platooning of Clark and Pollard. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

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    Definitely Jerry Rice with John Taylor, and when Taylor left, this 3rd round pick turned into a steal and a half and that was T.O.  Don't be fooled!  Up until the end of Rice's last year with the 49ers, T.O.was amazing to say the least.  He was a model citizen just like Taylor, he could make great runs like Taylor out of 5-10 yard passes.  At the end of Rice's last year, Owens ego began to show as he was about to show the world he was better than Rice.  The next year he began to make trouble.  Taylor was unreal whether it was the bomb, the short rout taken for 20-40 yards.  Rice also could easily take a 5 yard pass 60 yards for a TD, and all three rarely dropped a pass.  If Rice did, it usually had little effect on the outcome of the game.

    Then of course back to Rice.  I always said Moss was the more talented receiver, but when he came to Boston, I began to see he is not even in Rice's league.  In big games or small,  double, triple or quadruple team Rice, he will still make the biggest plays of the game when they are most needed.  Moss has great hands, but how many passes does he drop?  Very similar to the present T.O.  Moss will disappear when the coverages increase on him as you all saw in the second half of the season in 07 when the offense was a shell of the first half.  Most of you used these double coverages as an excuse.  Rice has unreal hands and even more important, he gets himself into position where every pass looks easy.  I love Randy, but to say he has the greatest hands is ridiculous.  Making great passes one time and dropping easy ones as he does and the amount of passes he drops compared to Rice, and Rice ALWAYS being there when needed makes Rice the best ever, and he makes it look easy.  They say he didn't have very good speed, but until he got old with Oakland did you ever see ANYONE catch him from behind?

    I saw all Rice's games with Taylor and Owens and they were always money.  I don't see them making the great one handed grabs, but if you are in position, you don't need to! 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nbdev1234. Show nbdev1234's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    I say Moss with JJ Jefferson not far behind; JJ fell off fast - next maybe Lofton.

    Best corps, as good as the pats' group is, goes to SD - but not the Jefferson team (1980) but the year after:  in 1981 they lost JJ but gained Wesly Sandy Chandler who was better all around and had a much better career, and they also added a guy named James Brooks.  Plus Winslow really took off...in addition to Muncie, Joiner and Sievers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

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    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]If you cant name the other WR then they were not a great duo, thats why whoever said Rice and (insert any name) is wrong because just saying Rice plays next to a guy does not make them the best duo. Now if you want to say Rice had teh best hands ever that is a fair argument but he was not a part of a fantastic duo he was the whole WR corps when he played. I like the Cris Carter and Randy Moss duo and either Rice or Moss for best hands.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

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    MVPkilla,  you don't think Taylor or Owens were part of a good tandem.  So many people here say Welker and Moss.  Either one of them could play the deep threat or the short along with Rice.  They threw short passes all the time.  I'd bet Montana had the highest yards in football after the catch, and so many here faulted Cassell for that same thing.  If the Pats had Taylor or the young Owens, they would have won the SB cause Owens couldn't easily be stopped like Moss when doubled.

    These guys were all clutch, and Owens was the real deal back then, even better than when he left and made All Pro and the like.  He began to sink after Rice left, not his ability, but his ego.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Rice only played one year with Owens as far as I know and they didnt win a championship together so no I wouldnt consider that the best duo ever or teh best CORPS.


    Why am I not surprised that the only people I other stallworth and and swann Underdogg has mentioned have been Colts players.

    I agree we should have thrown Marvin Harrison into teh mix for best hands ever but i still think Moss trumps him in the end. And teh 04 Colts can s uck a big one. Did they win a championship together or even make it to a championship? I didnt think so. And Brandon Stokely cant even hold Wes Welkers jock strape.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Killa - Nor has Moss or Welker ever won a championship, whereas Harrison, Wayne, and Clark have, but I didn't see that stopping pats fans from mentioning Moss and Welker. 

    As far as plain's final addition, an RB - Stick the Edge into that mix and you have Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark, Pollard, and James - Whew.  That's a group!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Quasi,
    I feel your love for your boys, but you've got to untwist the logic.  Your entire post is the primary reason Moss rates higher.  Rice & Owens played on better teams.  Even the recording Pats of 2007 was comprised of "lunch bucket, blue collar" type guys (aside from TB).  Rice rarely saw doubles and triples because the other teams couldn't afford to.  They moved Jerry all over the place to get him isolated coverages.  Great hands and undeniable work ethic yes, but BEST, unfortunately not.  What highlight reals have you been reviewing?  Moss stopped when doubled?  Only in a prevent defense and the play is a "Hail Mary" , maybe.  Did you see the 2007 Dolphin game catch with 1 arm while THREE Dolphins DB's were hanging on him?  How about the 1st TD against the JETS as he outran another THREE defenders to haul in TB's pass?  The problem with Moss is that on deep routes, you don't always see the coverage because he's so far beyond it.  You say he's easily stopped when doubled compared to Owens?  Okay, Owens has played 2 full seasons longer than Moss.  Just FOUR TD receptions separate the two on the all time list 139 to 135.  With the Pat's it's not about the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that in the back of someone's mind, all records within striking distance (while this group of talent is together), are targets (motivators). "Owens couldn't easily be stopped like Moss when doubled", is one of the funniest things I've ever heard...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

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    Underdogg I did not mean they never won a championship because they won the very next year in 05 but you said the 04 WR corps as best of all time? I do not think so, they couldnt get the job done in 04 and in 05 Stokely was a none factor (wasnt he on IR by the end of the year?)

    And we mention Welker and Moss and Stallworth and the entire 07 WR corps because in one season they broke the TD record for Brady and for Moss and they broke the record for Offense in a single season and they won the AFC Championship and they played in the super bowl (and lost of course but they still made it to the big show) and they were the first and only team to ever go 16-0 and finish the regular season undeafeted so yes some of us including myself consider them the best WR CORPs in history. There is far more evidence to support this argument then there is for the 2004 Colts WR Core. You might have a good argument for best hands ever with Marvin Harrison but i still give that one to Moss but at least you have ground to stand on with that argument.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

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    Dogg,
    Good group, if it were prime Marvin, current Wayne, to go along with those mentioned.  Stokely was a nice complement in that scheme, but he can't even be spoken of in the same sentence as Wes.   He's never even seen that type of production.  However, I'm glad to see everyone's got the "thinking caps" on. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from habssuck09. Show habssuck09's posts

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    Im 27 so I can only speak for late 80"s to today and I might be bias but Moss can come down with everything he puts his hands on and for corps its hard to over look what Moss and Welker did add Fualk but the greatest show on turf were impressive
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

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    I would say as far as CORPS go the 2007 Pats WRs were the best IMO of course.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

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    Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice.  Period.  End of story.  Jerry Rice came into the league on the most dominant team in NFL history.  He had the benefit of the best coach and best QB of all-time for his entire SF career.  He had two HOF QBs throwing to him in SF for over a decade.  He had Dwight Clark and John Taylor on the other side of him, plus HOFer Roger Craig in the backfield.  SF won the Super Bowl in '81 and '84 with one of the greatest offenses of all- time WITHOUT HIM.  SF's points per season WENT DOWN after his arrival in '85. Let's contrast these FACTS with Randy Moss.  Moss came to a mediocre team in 1998.  The Vikings of 1997 were 9-7 and average in points scored during the season.  Moss was the only new starter in '98, they set the record for most points ever scored in a season and went 15-1, all because of Moss.  Cunningham went from backup in '97 to All-Pro with Moss in '98.  BTW, Moss, who scored something like 5 TDs in his first three NFL games in 1998, has been double-covered on virtually every play since 1998, while accumulating 130 TDS.  Forget double coverage, they regularly dedicate triple coverage to Moss and they still can't stop him.  Moss has made mediocre QBs look fantastic his whole career: Daunte Culpepper went to 4 Pro-Bowls with Moss and was NOTHING without him.  Jeff George had his career year in '99 throwing bombs to Moss.  And then Moss comes to New England, an average offense in '06, AND AGAIN THE TEAM SETS THE RECORD FOR MOST POINTS SCORED IN A SEASON with Moss the only meaningful addition from '06.  Brady's rating went up 30 POINTS from '06 to '07 with the addition of Moss.  Jerry Rice would NEVER HAVE MADE THIS TYPE OF IMPACT ON NE.  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.  Put Randy Moss on SF with Montana and Young and Walsh his whole career and not only would SF have MANY more rings, but Moss would have SHATTERED the all-time scoring record of Rice.  As BB himself said when Moss came to NE, "There isn't a single player in the league who alters defenses more than Randy Moss."  Conversely, I'd love to see how Rice would have produced with the likes of Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, not to mention Ken Walter and Aaron Brooks throwing to him his whole career.  Safe to say his numbers would not be anywhere near where are they are now.    

      
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    mplsnick,
    Thanks for jumping in here with your Moss data.  I was beginning to tire from holding up this fight with the help of a few others.  One thing I would like EVERYONE to remember is that Randal Cunningham was a beast with the Eagles.  Former league MVP on a team that was noted for defense under Buddy Ryan.   He was both there running and passing game.  In MN, 15-1 , one FG from the SuperBowl.
     
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    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]mplsnick, Thanks for jumping in here with your Moss data.  I was beginning to tire from holding up this fight with the help of a few others.  One thing I would like EVERYONE to remember is that Randal Cunningham was a beast with the Eagles.  Former league MVP on a team that was noted for defense under Buddy Ryan.   He was both there running and passing game.  In MN, 15-1 , one FG from the SuperBowl.
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    You are welcome, Plaintruth.  BTW, Cunningham was a great player in Philly but was left for dead when MN picked him up in '97 off waivers.  He was laying bricks in Vegas when the Vikings picked him up.  He didn't even start that year.  In '98 he was runner-up for MVP throwing to Moss but in '99 he was never heard from again.  MN defense in '98 was not good and cost them the Super Bowl, together with Anderson missing that 36-yard FG in the championship game.  (His only missed kick all year and really the only one that mattered.  How cruel can you get.  Only in snake-bit MN.)  MN's defense was never challenged in '98 because the Vikings were scoring record points behind Moss, Carter, Smith and Cunningham and would be up 21-zip in the first quarter.  Then when the defense was finally tested against Atlanta in the NFC championship game, they couldn't get it done and twice Atlanta drove right down the field on them at the end of the game to cost them the Bowl.  A lot like how NE's D couldn't get it done in '07, permitting Eli Manning to go the distance in two minutes on that last drive. (I was at the game and sitting in the end zone where Plaxico caught that pass.  Still get completely nauseous thinking about it.)  If Asante Samuel had not dropped that pick, or if the D had just held the Giants' average offense out of the end zone on that final drive, Randy Moss would be widely considered the greatest WR of all-time.  As it is, now he continues to get no respect when they mention the great WRs in the league, let alone of all-time.  For years I've heard that the likes of Steve Smith or Larry Fitzgerald or TO or Andre Johnson or Chad Johnson were better than Moss.  Give me a break.  Moss has twice been on the team that set the single-season scoring record, MN in '98 and NE in '07.  And, each time he did it, he was the only meaningful addition to a mediocre offense from the season before.  Enuf said, end of story.  Once you can show me a player who single-handedly took an average offense and made it the highest scoring team of all-time, and does it twice no less, then we can talk about someone who might be as good as Moss.  But that will never happen in our lifetime.




     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Randal's story is amazing and your assessment of the 1998 Vikes and the 2007 Pat's is spot on.  Platoon RB's, TE's, and a plethora of WR's lead by Carter and Moss.  The only real difference is that Tom is on the way up ( I still believe that we haven't seen his best) and Randal was a numbers casualty waiting for an opportunity that Denny gave him.  Don't forget Patriot fans, Randal is Sam "THE BAM" Cunninghams little brother...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brianlh. Show brianlh's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

     Best hands, probably old friend? Raymond Berry or Lenny Moore (no I'm not a Dolts fan) Receiving corps? tough question, the Old Green Bay Packers had quite a good corps back in the 60s and the hated Steelers in the 70s.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

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    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Rice only played one year with Owens as far as I know and they didnt win a championship together so no I wouldnt consider that the best duo ever or teh best CORPS. Why am I not surprised that the only people I other stallworth and and swann Underdogg has mentioned have been Colts players. I agree we should have thrown Marvin Harrison into teh mix for best hands ever but i still think Moss trumps him in the end. And teh 04 Colts can s uck a big one. Did they win a championship together or even make it to a championship? I didnt think so. And Brandon Stokely cant even hold Wes Welkers jock strape.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    killa what about Taylor?  He won it in the 94 season, 95 SB, and since when does SBs matter? 

    mpisnick - Moss since he joined the Raiders is a shadow of hisold self.  He was terrible in the second half of the season, disappearing for games at a time.  He now drops passes costing them games.  He is talented but not nearly like he was.  I always defended him against Rice, but when all is said and done, Moss becomes invisible in the biggest of games and Rice is an absolute stud.  NO double or triple teams will stop him when he's in the groove.  Moss may make a big play, but his overall game down the stretch and in the playoffs was horrid at best. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Quasi, I feel your love for your boys, but you've got to untwist the logic.  Your entire post is the primary reason Moss rates higher.  Rice & Owens played on better teams.  Even the recording Pats of 2007 was comprised of "lunch bucket, blue collar" type guys (aside from TB).  Rice rarely saw doubles and triples because the other teams couldn't afford to.  They moved Jerry all over the place to get him isolated coverages.  Great hands and undeniable work ethic yes, but BEST, unfortunately not.  What highlight reals have you been reviewing?  Moss stopped when doubled?  Only in a prevent defense and the play is a "Hail Mary" , maybe.  Did you see the 2007 Dolphin game catch with 1 arm while THREE Dolphins DB's were hanging on him?  How about the 1st TD against the JETS as he outran another THREE defenders to haul in TB's pass?  The problem with Moss is that on deep routes, you don't always see the coverage because he's so far beyond it.  You say he's easily stopped when doubled compared to Owens?  Okay, Owens has played 2 full seasons longer than Moss.  Just FOUR TD receptions separate the two on the all time list 139 to 135.  With the Pat's it's not about the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that in the back of someone's mind, all records within striking distance (while this group of talent is together), are targets (motivators). "Owens couldn't easily be stopped like Moss when doubled", is one of the funniest things I've ever heard...
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Quasi:

    Here are Moss's "horrid" playoff stats: 11 games, 10 TDs.  Among those games we have the would-be Super Bowl winning TD against the Giants, two TDs at GB in 2004, 2 TDs at home against NO in 2003, 2 TDs and 188 against the Rams when they won the bowl in '99, plus a TD in each of the '98 playoff games against AZ and Atlanta.  To quote Shakespeare, "You know not of what you speak."  This "shadow of his old self" after joining the Raiders went on to break Rice's record for most receiving TDs in one year in 2007 (23).  And by coincidence, I just finished watching NFL Total Access.  Warren Sapp ranked his best WRs in the game and named Moss number one.  As he put it, "We played the cover 2 all year in Tampa Bay.  Then Moss came into the league and he was the first player that we could not defend with the cover 2.  He was the only player whoever made us change our defense."  Just like BB said.  I rest my case.


     
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