Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Would be interesting to see how receivers of today would have done with the rules back about 30 years ago. Those games make what the Pats did to the Colts receivers in the 2004 AFC Championship game look like child's play. I was living/working in Wisconsin in 1995 and remember the Packers using the same tactics the Pats did to perfection against the 49ers that year in the playoffs.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from falline. Show falline's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Sorry to say because I am a Pats fan, but Peyton would not have the stats he does without Marvin Harrison...

    Best receiveing corps? Lets hope we are watching them every sunday here in New England this season...
     
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    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Sorry to say because I am a Pats fan, but Peyton would not have the stats he does without Marvin Harrison... Best receiveing corps? Lets hope we are watching them every sunday here in New England this season...
    Posted by falline[/QUOTE]

    You know before 2006 I though that Edgerrin James was more of the reason of the Colts success than Manning. Hence 1999 they improve 10 games, then 2001 when James gets hurt and basically ends the Colts season.

    Would be cool to say the 2009 Pats receiving corp is the best ever. Time will tell.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Gents - where the colts are concerned its not the offense, its the defense.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Underdogg is right; with an almost near 360 turnaround on D the Colts won the Super Bowl. I also believe, obviously, that when Bob Sanders is on the field the Colts are signicantly improved on defense. I  know this might sound odd, but I always felt that the Colts offense performed best with Clark on the field. DOn't know if he makes the great hands group, but he does pose serious match-up problems for alot of opposing defenses.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Hannah - Clark does not make the great hands group (drops many), but he certainly is a part of one of the greatest receiving corps - mentioned earlier in the thread. 

    And where the colts are concerned, their need for D also applies to the pats.  Early to mid 00's pats had one of the most consistent dominating defenses in the NFL.  Their stats may never have been gaudy like Baltimore, but they were always considered a top 5 d. 

    As the d faded, so did the NE superbowls. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]     Theres' a difference between judging who has the "best hands" and who is the "best WR". As somebody mentioned previously, the receiver with the greatest hands that I've ever seen was Raymond Berry, the formers Patriots'  coach, and hall of fame WR of the Baltimore Colts.      Berry really worked at it. He was the consummate possession receiver. I read that he would have sawdust played all over a sideline...and would spend hours of extra practice time catching balls in the saw-dust laden ground, that were purposely thrown low...so he would have to drive to catch them.      For Pats fans who remember, Berry spend lots of practice time working with his defenders and special teamers on the art of "stripping" a ball-carrier...which was a major factor in the Pats' ascension to the 1985 AFC title, and their first SB. Its' something that I'd like to see the Patriots do more of this season.       Heres' more on Berry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Berry  and http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_1999/oates _berry.asp      That said, the best WRs to me are the ones who produce the best yards after catch (YAC). While Randy Moss is a great deep threat, hes' not really a great YAC man. Larry Fitzgerald is incredibly dangerous anytime he catches a ball. If he can stay healthy, he may become the best WR of all-time. Jerry Rice was another great YAC man...and is currently, in my view, the greatest WR of all-time.       As for best receiving corp, I like the groups which contain a top flight TE. A great TE creates serious match-up problems. The exception to the rule is the Patriots' Welker/Moss pairing. Welker is the perhaps best slot/possession receiver ever...while Moss is perhaps the best deep threat ever. The two compliment each other perfectly.    
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]
    YAC!!! OFFERED FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE.  UNDISPUTABLE PROOF OF THE G.reatest O.f A.ll T.ime for Yards after the Catch.  Time to put this baby to bed...  Over his career coaches altered his role.  He has proven beyond anyone's doubt that he can do it all.  Over the middle, sideline route, the 9, you name it, he's done it.  If you can blow by people, then, like NIKE says "just do it". 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOYH6PPYaPI&NR=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE8sJI7PxQU&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dubnbRWrtOY&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8wMwXz-5g4&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9y60WCUIhg&feature=related
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Food for thought ;)

    DID YOU KNOW?Over his 11-year NFL career, Randy Moss has averaged one touchdown for every 6.24 receptions, a total that is the best in NFL history among any receiver with at least 500 receptions

    Excerpt from Patriots WR Snapshot...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Food for thought ;) DID YOU KNOW? Over his 11-year NFL career, Randy Moss has averaged one touchdown for every 6.24 receptions, a total that is the best in NFL history among any receiver with at least 500 receptions Excerpt from Patriots WR Snapshot...
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]

    Moss always has been on the most dangerous WR in the redzone. With his vertical leap hard for any defender to stop without drawing a foul.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    The Plain Truth: Thanks for the videos.  I love them because they prove all of the Moss myths false: "He's not as good as others after the catch."  Well, his record-setting TD per every 6 receptions plus these videos simply show that anyone who says this, hasn't seen Moss play his whole career.  Watch what he did in MN for seven years and tell me there is anyone better with YAC.  Another myth: he won't go over the middle.  Total BS.  Watch the clips, he runs over the middle all of the time.  He also is second to no one, including the great Cris Carter, in getting both feet in bounds.  Watch these clips or think back to the Jets game last year on the last play as examples.  He also has turned every QB who has ever thrown to him look like an All-Pro.  In MN, Todd Boumann and Gus Frerrotte had QB ratings in the 90s-100s when they came in when Moss was here.  Jeff George had his career year in '99 throwing to Moss with a QB rating of 89 or 90.  Culpepper made 4 Pro Bowls with Moss; without him he has a hard time making the team. Cunningham and Brady both had their ratings skyrocket by 30 points when Moss came to their team.  And you just watch how Cassell's numbers PLUMMET when he doesn't have Moss taking three defenders with him on every play.  THE FACT IS THIS: A lot of people just don't like Moss as a person so they BLIND THEMSELVES to what they watch every week when he dominates games.  I cannot wait to watch MOSS/BRADY RIP IT UP, starting in two months!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Sorry Nick - Moss can get above any db but no one is more capable of keeping their feet in bounds than Marvin was.

    As for George - talk about a guy who chose not to become as good as he could have.  The whole "best arm" myth is absolutely true and he threw it away because he thought he did not need to study.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

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    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Sorry Nick - Moss can get above any db but no one is more capable of keeping their feet in bounds than Marvin was. As for George - talk about a guy who chose not to become as good as he could have.  The whole "best arm" myth is absolutely true and he threw it away because he thought he did not need to study.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I'd give Cris Carter a nod over Marvin Harrison. Harrison was one of the best but, never seen any player that was able to move their feet in the right place to get them in bounds like Carter.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Sorry to disagree with many, but I've seen most of these recievers play over the years including Raymond.  My vote goes to Jerry Rice. As to the silly comment by someone that Rice was never double teamed, must not have watched the same games I did. Rice was consistantly doubled team, and always came down with the ball. What made Rice great was that unlike a lot of wide recievers, his bread and butter was the pass over the middle, and gaining yardage after the pass, but just as good as he was fearless going down the middle, on the fly he could out run, and or out jump almost any defender. Harrison comes in a very close #2. TO is a crybaby and despite all of his ability, he's nowhere in the Raymond Berry of Fred Belitnikof are in the top 5 alltime.

    I'll edit my post after reading a few comments of the group and put Moss in at the #2 spot behind Rice !!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]For me, as much as, I admire Moss, this award goes to JOHN JEFFERSON of the SD CHARGERS & GREEN BAY PACKERS .  I bore witness to JJ ripping peoples hearts out again and again with some of the most acrobatic 1 hand snags I'd ever seen.  The best being a 25 to 30 yard rope from Fouts caught at the rear endzone line.  The pass was put where only he could get it.  I was about goal post high and shot out of a cannon.  He went up and snagged the nose of the football in the palm of his hand and came down with both feet in bounds without allowing the velocity of the pass to carry him out of bound or his other hand touching the ball.  Best Receiving Corps would have to go to San Diego Cha rgers' Kellen Winslow Sr., Charlie Joiner, John Jefferson, (later Wes Chandler), and Chuck Muncie out of the backfield.
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]Nice reciever but not even the best reciever in San Diego history try Lance Allsworth!! Ray Perkins was a better hands guy than JJ.Again nothing wrong with his ability and of course anytime someone says the best you ever saw makes anyone you write in correct.If you are going to pick a group of recievers on the same team you would probably say the Steelers and Niners wrs of their respective powerhouse teams or you could simply point to the 2007 Patriots...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimnagle. Show jimnagle's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Mark Clayton had some terrific catches. Yes, I'm a Dolphins fan but he was always double covered with no running game to speak of. I think Cliff Branch was underrated too.
    Posted by perfect72[/QUOTE]

    Cliff Branch was probably the fastest man inthe NFL when he played, and so made some exciting plays, but he was not a hands guy.  His partner Fred Bilitnekoff was one of the all-time great hands guys.

    THE all-time hands guy was the great Raymond Berry, Hall of Famer and John Unitas' principal target.  In his eleven or so seasons in the NFL, when graded by the coaching staff, he was never charged with a drop of a catchable ball.  Not one.  This is in addition to all the spectacular catches he made.

    BTW, closer to home: Jimmy Colclough of the Patriots had great hands.  Yapple should know: he threw those balls...wait a minute, he's not really Babe Parilli, that's just his (awesome) avatar.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

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    Thanks for your comments about my Babe Parilli illustration.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimnagle. Show jimnagle's posts

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    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Thanks for your comments about my Babe Parilli illustration.
    Posted by Yapple[/QUOTE]

    You're welcome.  Your portrayal of the Sweet Kentucky Babe as your avatar is, quite simply, the best.  Old #15 is one of my all-time favorites,
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    Yapple,
    Is your Avatar really your work?  If so, you are truly blessed.  That is amazing.  I saw your Berry pic and was furthermore impressed.  Do you do this for others or just a pasttime?  I've been a fan of your intellect since I began to read these forums, now you have a new fan of your talents...

    jimnagle,
    I appreciate the work of Raymond Berry and rate him highly on my list.  However, he's not even my favorite Colt receiver.  That honor goes to the one and only Roger Carr.  Besides his unique skillset, I loved those "ears".  As a kid, we referred to anyone with big ears or ears that set like his did by saying "check out those carrs"...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimnagle. Show jimnagle's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Yapple, Is your Avatar really your work?  If so, you are truly blessed.  That is amazing.  I saw your Berry pic and was furthermore impressed.  Do you do this for others or just a pasttime?  I've been a fan of your intellect since I began to read these forums, now you have a new fan of your talents... jimnagle, I appreciate the work of Raymond Berry and rate him highly on my list.  However, he's not even my favorite Colt receiver.  That honor goes to the one and only Roger Carr.  Besides his unique skillset, I loved those "ears".  As a kid, we referred to anyone with big ears or ears that set like his did by saying "check out those carrs"...
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]

    I remember Roger Carr as one of the fastest white men ever to play in the NFL, certainly the fastest at that time (Lance Alworth was retired by then).  Back then they didn't talk about 40 times, rather 100 times, and I think he ran a 9.3, which was pretty ridiculous.  He was injured a lot, though, and only had about 270 catches in ten years.  By contrast, in thirteen years (I earlier said eleven) Berry had 631 catches.  I mentioned earlier about the no drops, but he did have one (one!) fumble in his career.  Unparalleled hands.  No one else comes close to Berry in that category.  Period.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from theplaintruth. Show theplaintruth's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps



    Introducing Roger Carr:

    The Colts ran a different style offense at the time.  Run 1st, Run 2nd, Run 3rd, pass underneath to the TE.  The WR was used alot to clear out the underneath for draws and crossing routes by the TE.  Roger was definitely the fastest "white guy" in the league.  Due to his body type and taskings, he was injured some, but his numbers were more affected by the offensive style not talent.  Look at his per catch average and yards gained.  In 1976, he had over 1100 yds receiving with only 43 receptions.  In 1980, he had nearly 1000 yds on 61 receptions.  Roger was simply a very much unheralded commodity for his time.  Was he the best, no, but one of my favorites.  Dropped passes were not recorded until the last decade or so.  Berry was amazing, but falls behind JJ, CC, and Moss on my list...  It's fun to reminisce though...

    Roger Carr

    Height: 6-3   Weight: 200   Age: 57

    Born: 7/1/1952 Seminole , OK

    College: Louisiana Tech

    Experience: 10 Seasons

    REC
    271
    YDS
    5,071
    AVG
    18.7
    TDS
    31

    Career Stats more
    SeasonTeam ReceivingRushingFumbles
    GGSRecYdsAvgLngTDAttYdsAvgLngTDFUMLost
    1983 San Diego Chargers 4 -- 23618.0230--------------
    1982 Seattle Seahawks 9 -- 1526517.7502--------------
    1981 Baltimore Colts 15 -- 3858415.4433--------------
    1980 Baltimore Colts 16 -- 6192415.14351-8-8.0-80----
    1979 Baltimore Colts 9 -- 2740014.8371--------------
    1978 Baltimore Colts 16 -- 3062921.078T6--------------
    1977 Baltimore Colts 7 -- 1119918.1451--------------
    1976 Baltimore Colts 14 -- 431,11225.979T11--------------
    1975 Baltimore Colts 14 -- 2351722.590T2--------------
    1974 Baltimore Colts 11 -- 2140519.3--0--------------
    TOTAL2715,07118.790311-8-8.00000


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimnagle. Show jimnagle's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    In Response to Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps:
    [QUOTE]Introducing Roger Carr: The Colts ran a different style offense at the time.  Run 1st, Run 2nd, Run 3rd, pass underneath to the TE.  The WR was used alot to clear out the underneath for draws and crossing routes by the TE.  Roger was definitely the fastest "white guy" in the league.  Due to his body type and taskings, he was injured some, but his numbers were more affected by the offensive style not talent.  Look at his per catch average and yards gained.  In 1976, he had over 1100 yds receiving with only 43 receptions.  In 1980, he had nearly 1000 yds on 61 receptions.  Roger was simply a very much unheralded commodity for his time.  Was he the best, no, but one of my favorites.  Dropped passes were not recorded until the last decade or so.  Berry was amazing, but falls behind JJ, CC, and Moss on my list...  It's fun to reminisce though... Roger Carr Height: 6-3   Weight: 200   Age: 57 Born: 7/1/1952 Seminole , OK College: Louisiana Tech Experience: 10 Seasons REC 271 YDS 5,071 AVG 18.7 TDS 31 Profile Career Stats Game Logs Career Stats more Season Team   Receiving Rushing Fumbles G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost 1983 San Diego Chargers 4 -- 2 36 18.0 23 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1982 Seattle Seahawks 9 -- 15 265 17.7 50 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1981 Baltimore Colts 15 -- 38 584 15.4 43 3 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1980 Baltimore Colts 16 -- 61 924 15.1 43 5 1 -8 -8.0 -8 0 -- -- 1979 Baltimore Colts 9 -- 27 400 14.8 37 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1978 Baltimore Colts 16 -- 30 629 21.0 78T 6 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1977 Baltimore Colts 7 -- 11 199 18.1 45 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1976 Baltimore Colts 14 -- 43 1,112 25.9 79T 11 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1975 Baltimore Colts 14 -- 23 517 22.5 90T 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1974 Baltimore Colts 11 -- 21 405 19.3 -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- TOTAL 271 5,071 18.7 90 31 1 -8 -8.0 0 0 0 0
    Posted by theplaintruth[/QUOTE]

    One more thing about Berry: he was an innovater.  He and Unitas and their underrated genius coach Weeb Ewbank basically invented the two-minute offense, with Berry developing the sideline tap-dance that receivers ever since have emulated.  I loved him as coach of the Pats, too.  A great humble guy, who let his quarterback, Steve Grogan, call the plays on the field- the way it used to be.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

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    "Yapple,
    Is your Avatar really your work?  If so, you are truly blessed.  That is amazing.  I saw your Berry pic and was furthermore impressed.  Do you do this for others or just a pasttime?  I've been a fan of your intellect since I began to read these forums, now you have a new fan of your talents..."

    Thanks for asking and your kind words. I'm a professional illustrator for ad agencies, corporations etc. The images I've posted on this forum were for my own personal use although the cartoon of the Pats logo dealing with the Lisa Olsen controversy appeared in the Boston Herald.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mplsnick. Show mplsnick's posts

    Re: Best Hands on a WR "You've Ever Seen" & Best Receiving Corps

    I'm 45 so I never saw Ray Berry play.  If he really only had one drop in his career it would be impossible to top that.  If you have read my posts you know where I stand on Moss: I believe he has more impact on defenses than any WR in history and that includes Rice.  I think if he had been playing with HOF QBs his whole career (like Rice) that his numbers would be even more ridiculous than they already are.  Remember last year how many times Moss was running free and Cassell could not hit him?  That happened over and over again in MN and would not have happened if Montana/Young were throwing to him.  All of that said, Moss does have a little attention deficit disorder going on and will occasionally make a drop out of carelessness or run before the catch.  His ability to make the spectacular catch is unmatched but you have to accept the bad with the good.  So, if I'm being completely honest, while I still think that Moss is the best/most-impact WR ever, I would drop him to top 3 or 4 in the pure hands department because of the occasional ADD.  I do think Rice had fewer drops than Moss but Moss had way more of the ridiculous, jump over three guys type of TD (e.g. at Miami in '07) than Rice ever had in his career.  Rice did not leap like Moss nor was he as tall, nor was he as fast.  He was better going over the middle than Moss, however.  You couldn't just throw it up for grabs and expect Rice to come down with it the way you can with Moss.  Lastly, Moss will not have the endurance of Rice and won't last as long, so Rice will definitely end up being more productive.  If I'm being totally honest Rice/Moss are very close as the best WR ever.  I don't see any other WRs coming close to entering this conversation.  Which could be the subject of another post:  the top 3 WRs of all-time?   


     

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