Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Interesting thought I had about QB's through history... if we are talking Superbowl victories equalls ranking

    Montana and Bradshaw each have 4 

    Aikman and Brady have 3

    Bart Starr, Bob Griese, Roger Staubach, Jim Plunkett, John Elway, and Ben Roethlisberger all have 2

    Joe Namath, Len Dawson, Johnny Unitas, Ken Stabler, Joe Theisman, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetlier, Mark Rypien, Steve Young, Brett Farve, Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees all have one 

       
       
     
    SO if SB Victories is all you look at there is the paramaters now looking at other things like overall QB rating Regular season, Post seaon etc. then it gets a bit murkey. It depends on what you value most as a fan. For me it is heavily weighted in SB victoruies then Post season win % and then overall QB ratings. 
    I haven't put all the numbers through the blender yet but I suspect using my formular Brady would be considerably higher then Manning. I will work on this and put out the rating shortly. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Even without the SB wins the 9-9 vs 14-4 playoff record speaks for itself. But hey if Colts fans want to claim they have the best REGULAR SEASON QB in history I might let them have that.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    SB wins is how the modern mind ranks QB's...

     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boston-kyle. Show Boston-kyle's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    I really enjoy reading the Indianapolis news papers today... they claimed that the colts DEFENSE blew the game and blew mannings chance at greatness.

    How about Peyton Manning blew the game!!

    Btw - also read that on friday the city of indianapolis declared today (monday) a day off for any public workers and schools, anticipating the colts winning the superbowl. bummmmmerrrr
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Here is my updated list of QB's with Raw Data of SB wins, Career Passer rating, and Playoff record/win%. for all QB's winning 4-2 Superbowls and throwing in Manning for sake of argument but there are no other QB's in the won at least one Superbowl that can arguably enter this discussion in my opinion and I will follow this post with all QB's stats who won one SB.

    Joe Montana 4 SB, 92.3,16-7, post season for .695 win %

    Terry Bradshaw 4 SB, 70.92, 14-5, .736  

    Troy Aikman 3 SB, 81.6, 11-4, .733

    Tom Brady 3 SB, 93.3, 14-4, .777

    Bart Starr 2 SB, 80.47, 10-1, .909

    Bob Griese 2 SB, 77.1, 6-5, .545

    Roger Staubach 2 SB, 83.4, 11-6, .647

    Jim Plunkett 2 SB, 67.5, 8-2, .800

    John Elway 2 SB, 79.9, 14-7, .666 (always said he made a deal with the devil! lol) 

    Ben Roethlisberger 2 SB, 91.7, 8-2, .800
    Peyton Manning 1 SB, 95.2, 9-9, .500

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    As Promised here is the total list of all the one win Super Bowl QB's and I didn't bother to bring all the stats out for the question at hand but I did show a couple of the more prominent QB's stats for comparison.
    Joe Namath 1 SB, 65.5, 2-1

    Len Dawson 1 SB, 82.6, 5-3

    Johnny Unitas 1 SB, 78.2, 6-2

    Ken Stabler 1 SB, 75.3

    Joe Theisman 1 SB, 77.4

    Jim McMahon 1 SB, 78.2

    Phil Simms 1 SB, 78.5

    Doug Williams 1 SB, 69.4

    Jeff Hostetlier 1 SB, 80.5

    Mark Rypien 1 SB, 78.9

    Steve Young 1 SB, 96.8, 8-6

    Brett Farve 1 SB, 86.6

    Kurt Warner 1 SB, 93.7, 9-3

    Trent Dilfer 1 SB, 70.2

    Brad Johnson 1 SB, 82.5

    Peyton Manning 1 SB, 95.2, 9-9

    Eli Manning 1 SB, 79.2

    Drew Brees 1 SB, 91.9

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    OK so now that I have the stats here it breaks down like this for me:
    #1. Joe Montana
    #2. Terry Bradshaw
    #3. Tom Brady
    #4. Troy Aikman
    #5. Bart Starr
    #6. Ben Rothlesberger
    #7. Roger Staubach
    #8. Peyton Manning... now I know I will get creamed for this ranking with him so low but like I said I put the emphasis on Super Bowl Wins Post season production and career Rating in that order and go from there. If he had won I think he moves up to #5 .
    Let the debate begin in earnest...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Maybe I am biased, but with all stats considered, Brady's numbers stand out.  He seems to have the best blend of stats. Montana makes it close.

    However, that may change.  The more times Brady reaches the play-offs and fails to win the SB, the more his numbers will deteriorate.  He will need at least one more SB win to stand alone. With the Pats having no OC or DC, a weak STC, receiver and other problems, I do not see Brady winning another SB before he has to retire. I hope I am wrong.

    One thing is clear: Barring a miracle after a miracle after a miracle after a miracle, Manning is out of consideration.  He has dug himself a hole. And he was very lucky that he didn't have four or five more picks last night.  Can you imagine what his QB rating would have been then?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    That is some really interesting information. What I got from that was that PEYTON MANNING IS NOT THE GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME IT IS TOTALLY OBVIOUS UNLESS YOU WRITE FOR THE GLOBE
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Heck you could even make the case that Steve Young is ahead of Manning looking at these stats
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Well I agree that winning championships should be a part of the discussion, I think you place way to much emphasis on it.  You telling me that because Dan Marino never won a championship you wouldnt even have him in the top 10 QB's of all time?

    Championships are won by organizations (players, coaches, owners, gm's etc.) not just 1 player.  Those last 3 can really help 1 player win many championships while another is left behind. 

    .
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Now for conversation sake lets say the Patriots get back to the Superbowl and win it next year Looking at his stats in that light you could make the argument he is the best ever even ahead of Montana as he would have  a 17-4 postseason record for a Win % of .809 against: 

    Joe Montana 4 SB, 92.3,16-7, post season for .695 win %

    Terry Bradshaw 4 SB, 70.92, 14-5, .736  

    Troy Aikman 3 SB, 81.6, 11-4, .733

    Sorry if I am beating this to death but lets say Manning does the same instead of Brady next season then at best he goes from #8 or 9 to #5 as he would still be quite a ways off in Post season win % being around .550 and just two Superbowl wins.

    Anyway, My point is that I just don't get why so many are caught up by this guy and think he is deserving of being considered one of the top 2-3 QB's all time when it is hard to find a way to put him any higher then 8th.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Patsman2 I am glad someone finally asked that question... First of all I agree Dan Marino is in the discussion but not top 10. He has to take some blame for not winning a superbowl. I would put him ahead of several one win superbowl QB's .
    He led the Dolphins to the playoffs 10 times in 17 years and your telling me he doesn't deserve the blame at least one of those 10 times for not getting into and winning just one Superbowl?

    By Definition a QB ranked in the top 10 of all time I think has to have won at least one Superbowl.  And there are a few Pre Superbowl era QB's you would likely have to list in the top 20 anyway. But the game was much different pre superbowl so generally speaking I think most make this seperation. As far as the one win qb's I think are way over rated?... Williams Dilfer and Rypien jump to mind.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Also Unitas probably should have had more superbowl wins when you look at his tallent but at least he got one. And most say though he had a good team he was the driver of that bus and willed them to that win. Marino should have had that ability at least once in those ten chances.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Best regular season Dome QB.  That's all I'll give him.  Just imagine if Kraft built a dome.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    MVP

    So by your standards, Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and all those 1 SB win QB's are better then Dan Marino?  Come on!!!!!  They prove that you CAN win a SB without a great QB and why more then just SB wins has to be factored into the determination.

    Funny thing is, looking at those stats, the guy that seems to never get mentioned is Aikman.  I think it was becasue he was on such a great team, but based on those stats, he has just as much a claim as Brady.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DonCherry. Show DonCherry's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Winning only 1 SB while being on a contending team throughout his career is inexcusable. Dan Marino would have had 5 SB playing for the Colts of the 00's
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Does anyone have a stat compilation for games in the snow? My short memory says that Brady has been heroic in these types of games.

    Shouldn't these stats carry some weight against career dome and fair weather (AZ and Miami for example) QBs...maybe some of these guys were super in the snow as well?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Aikman doesn't get the credit that he deserves. Although he never had to work a comeback, and spent most of the playoffs handing off to Emmitt Smith. 

    But he certainly was better than Steve Young, who had a habit of folding up in the clutch.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CarveMaster. Show CarveMaster's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    An interesting, and often forgotten fact about Marino was the Steelers were looking to get him through some dealing during the draft. He was a Pittsburgh native, a star QB at the University of Pittsburgh, and well known to the Steelers organization. However, at that time Terry Bradshaw had just come off winning 4 SB titles, and looked like he still had a long career ahead of him. They passed on Marino, and a short time later, Bradshaw suffered a career ending shoulder injury. The Steelers did not have a first rate QB for years afterwards until Big Ben showed up. It is interesting to speculate how many SB titles Marino might of won under Chuck Noll and a Steelers organization who were geared for winning.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NewLaw. Show NewLaw's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Winning only 1 SB while being on a contending team throughout his career is inexcusable. Dan Marino would have had 5 SB playing for the Colts of the 00's

    so true! you can't say how amazing a QB is and then disregard playoff stats, Manning had that team groomed around him and offensive plays were in the end dictated by him. With all those ridiculous seasons you expect a lot of good playoff wins, but Manning is average in the postseason at best compared to many others. 

    Brady has said he wants to play for the next 10 years, probably a little over optimistic, but you think Kraft and Belichick can't get another team around him before he retires? If Brady wins another SB and is during another studly year, does this make him close to Montana? with Mannings continues blundering he is no longer the imposing threat he once was, everyone knows it now. Its improbably but possible that Brady could still win 2 more, that would basically end the discussion for a long time!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Patsman2 and others... I am not a Marino Basher though I hated him while he played but I always recognised his ability to throw the ball and he was hard to sack without being a mobil QB. But if you look back at my last couple of posts I state Marino deserves to be ahead of several of the 1 Superbowl win QB's like Williams, Dilfer and Rypien for example. I never said the number of SB wins was by and far the only thing that matters I showed you the other stats I consider. And as was just mentioned by carvemaster I agree if the Steelers had pulled the trigger on Marino he might have had a few Superbowl wins, or maybe they wouldn't have... no way to be able to judge that.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Chris Carter made a great point on ESPN's  Mike and Mike show when he said Peyton being 9-9 is on his shoulders, he went on to say how Parcells always says "you are what you are" and Peyton Manning is a .500 QB in the Playoffs,  so how can you even begin to say he is in the same category as Montana, Bradshaw, Brady, and Aikman.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    This is my list of top 5 all time:
    Montana-He will be here until Brady wins another one, he is what QBs should be measured against IMO
    Brady-Has won 3 with no name WRs and should win 2 more at least, brought a franchise from the basement to a dynasty. 
    Bradshaw-No disrespect to Bradshaw but I think with the teams the Steelers had it wouldn't take an elite QB to win those SBs.  yes i know he made some great all time throws but IMO the WRs should get 70% of that glory.
    Aikman-Great leader, don't know if he would have had the success without the weapons around him but great QB
    Elway-He was tough, great leader.  I am not crazy about the Broncos but was always an Elway fan.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    I agree looking at the future of Brady in this league he has a legitimate chance at a couple more Superbowl victories.
    Now they need to fix a few spots but if they draft well not a miracle draft but just draft well this year and next  with the tallent they have then they are going to be right in the hunt for Superbowl championships for the next 5 years.
    You could be looking at a stat sheet like this for Brady if things go well:

    Brady: 5 Super Bowl Championships, Post season record of 21-7 and a Career Passer rating in the low 90's if his stats look anything like this he is #1 and there is no way Manning will ever vault past that.
     
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