Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    DaBlade:

    My post about Marino was not aimed at you but MVP who said Marino could not be in the discussion at all because he never won a super bowl.   Dont argree with that.

    Also, isnt it funny how we rate how great a QB is by Super Bowl wins but we dont do that with other positions. Barry Sanders never won a SB, but when people talk about greatist RB's he is always in the discussion.  Randy Moss is always mentioned as one of the greatist recievers, zero SB rings. 

    Just kinda goes back to my point that organizations win SB's not a single player or position. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Looks good to me, good work. I was just about to crunch all those numbers.........ok maybe not. LoL

    Go Pats!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from steelerjim58. Show steelerjim58's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    In Response to Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...:
    This is my list of top 5 all time: Montana -He will be here until Brady wins another one, he is what QBs should be measured against IMO Brady -Has won 3 with no name WRs and should win 2 more at least, brought a franchise from the basement to a dynasty.  Bradshaw -No disrespect to Bradshaw but I think with the teams the Steelers had it wouldn't take an elite QB to win those SBs.  yes i know he made some great all time throws but IMO the WRs should get 70% of that glory. Aikman -Great leader, don't know if he would have had the success without the weapons around him but great QB Elway -He was tough, great leader.  I am not crazy about the Broncos but was always an Elway fan.
    Posted by Pats7393


    So when brady is the qb and the TEAM wins it's because he is the qb.  When the Steelers won and Bradshaw was the qb it was because the Team around him was so good.  When brady throws a td pass it's caught because he is the one throwing the pass, and when Bradshaw threw a td pass it was because he had  Swann and Stallworth to catch it.  It amazes me how you patriot fans rationalize everything to try and justify calling brady the best ever.  For me the bottom line is that in the end football is a team sport.  To try and call an individual player the best to play it doesn't make sense.  There just isn't a reasonable criteria to go by.  To use winning super bowls as the main criteria is just nonsensical to me.   Manning completed 70% of his passes for 330 yards, 1 td and 1 int and you would think he stunk up the stadium the way some folks talk.  In brady's first super bowl he threw for less than 150 yards but thanks to venatieri and a good d, his resume show three rings.  Manning is as good a qb as has ever or will ever play the game.  And just for the heck of it, if Bradshaw, Swann and Stallworth were playing in todays pass happy, can't touch the wr or breath on the qb they would be unstoppable.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Bradshaw was surrounded by Hall of Famers.
    1. Montana
    2. Unitas
    3. Brady
    4. Elway
    5. Aikman
    6. Marino
    7. Favre
    8. Manning  Bill Romanowski went to 4 Super Bowls I guess he was better than Butkus. Who had 0 SB. Brandon Jacobsan and Joseph Adai must better than Barry Sanders an O.J Simpson also.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    I would take SB's into account for QB's because of how much influence they have over a game.  For other positions I wouldn't.  It's not the only thing to look at though, stats matter a little bit. 

    Probably the reason why Bradshaw, and Aikman don't get as much credit is because they were never stat monsters.  Even when comparing stats to those of his era Bradshaw was not a consistent performer.  He never led the league in yards, he led in TD's once and tied for first another time and threw a lot of INT's. 

    Same with Aikman, never led in yards or TD's category. 

    Montana led in TD's once and tied for first another time (with Bradshaw for 17 TD's).  He never led in yards.

    Manning though has a SB and numbers.  He has led in TD's 3 times, yards twice, and rating twice.

    Brady ofcourse has 3 SB wins and has led in Td's twice and yards twice.

    When you look at statistical wunderkind Marino, he led the league in yards 5 times and TD's 3 times.  You can also consider season records where you have the record holder for yards in Marino, TD's Brady, and passer rating Manning.

    Obviously this is kind of unfair to guys like Bradshaw and Aikman because they didn't throw the ball as much because their team was good and they could run the ball.  Had they needed to throw more their numbers would be better.

    So what we have is new, it was always QB's with SB's or QB's with stats.  Manning and Brady have both, dominant numbers and records like Marino, but a SB win unlike Marino.  Right now I would put Montana at the top but when Brady and Manning's careers are over they may be the top 2 QB's of all time. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Dont judge a QB solely by the numbers or SBs

    Judge a QB based on how he performs relative to his supporting cast and how he performs in the clutch...Neither of which is a stat

    You put Marino on the 70's Steelers then he probably wins more than 4 super bowls.  You put Bradshaw on Marino's dolphins then most of us probably wouldnt be talking about him right now

    Elway usually had a poor supporting cast yet took his team to 3 super bowls.  Then he got a good supporting cast and won 2. 

    Montana always had a good supporting cast and always lived up to expectations which is why hes great.

    The only way to figure out whos the best of alltime is to see how that QB would thrive around a good supporting cast and compare it to how he would perform under a poor supporting cast.  However, this is impossible to do which is why this will forever be a debate

    I do believe manning would have won more rings if he were on the pats...and i also believe brady has better numbers if he were on the colts
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    As much as I hate Peyton Manning I can't in all good consciousness say he isn't one of the top 5 QBs to ever play the game. 


    Some QBs don't need a ring to justify their greatness--Marino-- and some QBs only need one--Peyton. It is ridiculious to say Ben Worthlisberger is better than Peyton Manning just because Benny has 2 rings. Benny was a no-show in the first, the second he had a good drive at the end. The reason why I believe that Brady is better than Manning is because Brady is(was) as clutch as the word itself. When his team needs him to take them down the field he does it. He only had the kind of talent Peyton Manning had at WR his whole career in 2007, and we all know how that turned out. 

    Peyton Manning doesn't need another ring to be great, he is. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from steelerjim58. Show steelerjim58's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    In Response to Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...:
    The reason why I believe that Brady is better than Manning is because Brady is(was) as clutch as the word itself. When his team needs him to take them down the field he does it.

    Yeah, I will admit if you need a qb to get you in field goal range to win no one does it better than tommy.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Well, lets see where to begin... Ok, The reason we generally give QB's some of the blame or credit for winning Superbowls is because the QB has the most controll of the outcome of a game of all the players.  So that is why players like Sanders or Moss can be discussed as the best at their position with out a Super Bowl ring.
     
    And yes you have to put Rothlessberger ahead of Marino. While Marino might beat Rothlessberger in a skills competition at both of their peak, and will likely have the better career passing numbers over all a major part of being considered where you rank as the Best QB ever has to be how you performed in the clutch in the post season. Marino Fails horribly in this catagory, Peyton is in the discussion just inside the top 10 only because he has his one Super Bowl win. This is why Bradshaw is elevated so much in this discussion. He had great players around him (especially that defense) but he grasped the bull by the horn when he needed to to get the win. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Anarchy99. Show Anarchy99's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Here is a list of how SB era QBs have fared in championship games and Super Bowl games. No regular season, wildcard, or divisional round playoff games are included. Rather than list all the attempts, yardage, TDs, etc, I used passer rating since that incorporates the numbers and efficiencies in the formula. I also only used players that appeared in at least 3 games, as that would ensure that each player had to have been on two teams that advanced to the championship round. There were 39 such quarterbacks that played in 3 such games.

    QUARTERBACK, PASSER RATING, WINS & LOSSES
    Bart Starr 120.2 4-0
    Jim Plunkett 119 4-0
    Gary Kubiak 113.2 0-1
    Joe Montana 104.7 8-3
    Troy Aikman 104.6 6-1
    Drew Brees 100.8 2-1
    Kurt Warner 95.7 4-2
    Len Dawson 92.7 3-1
    Steve Young 91.7 2-4
    Tom Brady 91.6 7-2
    Brett Favre 87.6 3-4
    Doug Williams 83.7 2-1
    Ben Roethlisberger 82.2 4-1
    Terry Bradshaw 81.6 8-2
    Peyton Manning 80.1 3-2
    Jake Delhomme 79.3 1-2
    Jim McMahon 78.7 2-1
    Steve McNair 77.5 1-2
    Roger Staubach 76.7 6-4
    Dan Marino 74.4 1-3
    John Elway 74.3 7-4
    Bob Griese 74.1 5-1
    Donovan McNabb 72.9 1-5
    Ken Stabler 72.5 2-4
    Joe Theismann 71.9 3-1
    Neil O'Donnell 69.6 1-2
    Danny White 68.0 0-3
    Rich Gannon 64.5 1-2
    Daryle Lamonica 61.6 1-4
    Jim Kelly 61.1 4-5
    Kerry Collins 61.1 1-2
    Drew Bledsoe 58.2 2-1
    Johnny Unitas 49.5 2-2
    Fran Tarkenton 49.5 3-3
    Geroge Blanda 49.5 0-1
    Kordell Stewart 43.7 0-2
    Craig Morton 36.4 2-2
    Earl Morrall 35.0 3-1
    Jay Schroeder 22.7 0-2
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoHoldingCalls. Show NoHoldingCalls's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Anarchy,
         That is a quality set of statistics.  Thanks for putting it up!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mstep34. Show mstep34's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    In Response to Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...:
    An interesting, and often forgotten fact about Marino was the Steelers were looking to get him through some dealing during the draft. He was a Pittsburgh native, a star QB at the University of Pittsburgh, and well known to the Steelers organization. However, at that time Terry Bradshaw had just come off winning 4 SB titles, and looked like he still had a long career ahead of him. They passed on Marino, and a short time later, Bradshaw suffered a career ending shoulder injury. The Steelers did not have a first rate QB for years afterwards until Big Ben showed up. It is interesting to speculate how many SB titles Marino might of won under Chuck Noll and a Steelers organization who were geared for winning.
    Posted by CarveMaster


    Except that you facts are wrong Bradshaw retired in 1983 due to elbow problems on his throwing arm. Marino was drafted in 1984 and while that 84 steeler team played in the afc champ game they were 5 years removed from their last title team with most of those guys were well over the hill.  Bradshaw had nothing to due with Marino not being drafted by them it had to due somewhat of a nasty rumor of Marino doing .  While the rumors were obviously false, many teams believed them which is why he slipped that far in the draft.

    Also Bradshaw never gets proper credit for his stats considering

    A. he played on a run first team
    B. there was no such thing as pass interference back then
    C. what a lot people dont realize the nfl only played 14 games back then until the 78   season so all qbs in the 70's lost a chance to add more stats to their total with the 2 less games
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    In Response to Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...:
    I really enjoy reading the Indianapolis news papers today... they claimed that the colts DEFENSE blew the game and blew mannings chance at greatness. How about Peyton Manning blew the game!! Btw - also read that on friday the city of indianapolis declared today (monday) a day off for any public workers and schools, anticipating the colts winning the superbowl. bummmmmerrrr
    Posted by Boston-kyle

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    THEY WERE COPY CATTING THE PAT'S '07 SEASON. JUST ASK MUMBLES.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Anarchy99's stats back up what all us NE pats fans have been saying.  A NE QB is the best of all time, and his name is Tom...  ummm err Jim Plunkett!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Best QB ever debate... Check these stats out interesting...

    Anarchy's stats are interesting as well. You combine that with the stats I have provided and for the most part (Bradshaw being the one major exception) it backs up the overall rankings I have. Guys like Plunkett who had ability but were not "special" took advantage of their opportunities.
     
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