Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    reliable hands aside, welker has played in every game this year while Danny has been hobbled and concussed. Welker has proven more reliable As he is on the field.

    this aside, bb's plan was clear, but it has Ben derailed due to injury and missing ah. We wouldn't be having this discussion if everyone was healthy and ah was here. The main point is investing and building the roster around players more injury prone and more productive when healthy vs players with no injury history and potentially less productive in the system bb was trying to create With clearly more versatility. It was a risk bb was willing to take and so far its backfired BUT, the pats keep winning. I thought it would be exposed when we played the saints, but the young wrs stepped up and are filling the void. 

    Always keeping in mind that the Patriots offered Welker more money than he's making now the season before last, before they invested the resources to sign Amendola.  There's only so much money you can allocate to the slot receiver position.



    And Hernandez. Welker was gone by August 2012 and he knew it for the most part, or should have.

    Obviously, that did not work out very well, but the logic was clearly sound.   Some fans act like Welker is destined to win the SB this year, which I find kinda funny.

    Welkie had 2 chances in 5 years to get that ring and he wasn't as effective as he was in the regular season in those games.

    It's such a relief that Woodhead and Welker aren't here anymore because Brady leaned on them way too much in close games. If they were here on Sunday, we lose that game.



    I think the logic was sound On welker and ah. if the decision came down to one of them, I think you got to invest in the younger, more versatile talent. I get what Wozz was saying about offering welker more money, but honestly, the decision should have been welker or ah, not both, and take the money left over to sign a quality deep threat.  The issue the way I see it is not necessarily an over reliance on welker or woody, but the fact that the pats offense was somewhat 2 dimensional. We had no outside the number or deep threats. Every resource we had played in the short/middle part of the field. Good defenses stopped this come playoff time, and the pats run game wasn't as potent as it what now Or we didn't use it as much. Play calling was suspect as wells but that's another story.

    The offense we have now, assuming everyone returns healthy is good on all 3 levels of the field. Much harder to defend that our 2 TE, slot WR offense. At least I think so. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Always keeping in mind that the Patriots offered Welker more money than he's making now the season before last, before they invested the resources to sign Amendola.  There's only so much money you can allocate to the slot receiver position.



    If it was just a slot position I would agree Wozzy but we are talking a #1 receiver, not just a slot guy. Since we ended up spending nearly as much on a guy who can't even stay on the field it does say that per production value they spent more on Amendola than Welker got from Den so they are actually spending more to get less as of right now. That's not to mention if they decide to cut Amendola for any reason in the next 2 years the dead money they will incur because of it.



    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    Woody would have been nice, but if Vereen stays healthy, I like his potential a bit more.

    Also, I think many thought Woodhead would be a Charger if not resigned by the Patriots...SD has been looking for their Sproles replacement ever since they stupidly let him get away.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Always keeping in mind that the Patriots offered Welker more money than he's making now the season before last, before they invested the resources to sign Amendola.  There's only so much money you can allocate to the slot receiver position.



    If it was just a slot position I would agree Wozzy but we are talking a #1 receiver, not just a slot guy. Since we ended up spending nearly as much on a guy who can't even stay on the field it does say that per production value they spent more on Amendola than Welker got from Den so they are actually spending more to get less as of right now. That's not to mention if they decide to cut Amendola for any reason in the next 2 years the dead money they will incur because of it.



    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 



    Yes, but if you are planning on walking from Welkie, which it was clear by summer 2012, they were, who is your Welkie? It was Hernandez.  

    Would you rather have rented Welkie for 2 years, not resign Hernandez for those 2 and then lose Hernandez after 2014?

    Obviously now, this is a dead question, but just saying.  Some fans would have raced in here in 2014 and blamed BB for not investing in the younger Hernandez and trying to chase a ring for Welkie. Sometimes BB will never win with some people.

    That was the logic because letting either Gronk or AH go to FA would have meant easily losing one of them and then not having budget control over your 1st choice, which would have been Gronk.

    Bottom line is, anyone complaining about these approaches by BB does not get it.  Not saying you, but it's beyond lame to armchair QB these things. The approach is sound, everything else is fate and destiny that is out of a human's control.

     

     

    [/Q

    edelman and ah would have played the slot. Ah was still on his rookie contract and I would have kept him on it..that's what I was saying. I would have given the money to an outside the number vet, rode Edelman and ah, and drafted /signed another slot guy..think tj moe, to play slot when ah contract ran out. If ah didn't sign cap friendly, then I have Fleener or ertz taking up the slack after 2 years in the system. That was my point. I just wouldn't have invested as much in 2 te's as bb did, nd instead spread the cash out a bit more. 

    Control over Gronk was done by extending him now which they did. If that doesn't give me leverage for ah, no biggie. I got Fleener or ertz to pick up the slack and another slot guy in moe. I have a proven vet outside, with thompkins and my other rookie (Dobson, Wheaton, etc) playing behind them. 

    PI know you are not pointing, and generally I agree with bb's approach, just saying I would have done it a bit different. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    Woody would have been nice, but if Vereen stays healthy, I like his potential a bit more.

    Also, I think many thought Woodhead would be a Charger if not resigned by the Patriots...SD has been looking for their Sproles replacement ever since they stupidly let him get away.



    True. They miss sproles.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Always keeping in mind that the Patriots offered Welker more money than he's making now the season before last, before they invested the resources to sign Amendola.  There's only so much money you can allocate to the slot receiver position.



    If it was just a slot position I would agree Wozzy but we are talking a #1 receiver, not just a slot guy. Since we ended up spending nearly as much on a guy who can't even stay on the field it does say that per production value they spent more on Amendola than Welker got from Den so they are actually spending more to get less as of right now. That's not to mention if they decide to cut Amendola for any reason in the next 2 years the dead money they will incur because of it.



    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 



    Yes, but if you are planning on walking from Welkie, which it was clear by summer 2012, they were, who is your Welkie? It was Hernandez.  

    Would you rather have rented Welkie for 2 years, not resign Hernandez for those 2 and then lose Hernandez after 2014?

    Obviously now, this is a dead question, but just saying.  Some fans would have raced in here in 2014 and blamed BB for not investing in the younger Hernandez and trying to chase a ring for Welkie. Sometimes BB will never win with some people.

    That was the logic because letting either Gronk or AH go to FA would have meant easily losing one of them and then not having budget control over your 1st choice, which would have been Gronk.

    Bottom line is, anyone complaining about these approaches by BB does not get it.  Not saying you, but it's beyond lame to armchair QB these things. The approach is sound, everything else is fate and destiny that is out of a human's control.

     

     



    And just to elaborate...my approach wouldn't have factored in or arm chaired the ah situation. Meaning I am it saying this now because of what happened with ah, but rather where I chose to invest and in what positions. Clearly the pats offense has been 2 dimensioanl as I noted above. I would have invested my cash in 1 player representing the 3 dimensions and used my drafting to add 1 player to each dimension. 2 is 1 and 1 is none. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    Woody would have been nice, but if Vereen stays healthy, I like his potential a bit more.

    Also, I think many thought Woodhead would be a Charger if not resigned by the Patriots...SD has been looking for their Sproles replacement ever since they stupidly let him get away.



    True. They miss sproles.



    I think Woodhead's addition is one of a few reasons why Rivers is having a bounce back season so far...having a good receiver out of the backfield (Sproles, Woodhead) has always been a part of his game it seems.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 



    Yeah I hear what you were saying for my money I still would have signed Welker just to keep the guy around. Looking back I would have still extended Gronk and Hern because at that time they both got relatively team friendly deals compared to what TE's will be getting the next couple years. However, knowing what we know now about Hern I think I would have held off extending him until his rook deal was off. As such given what we had at TE going into the draft I wouldn't have looked for one in the draft.

    However, I would have went after Sanders harder as I think him and Welker could have been nice flex options moving inside and out adding flexibility and targetted an outside WR in the draft (like they did). I just wasn't a big Dobson fan at the time and still am not. Thompkins however, is a nice breath of fresh air. Terrance Williams was a guy brought up a lot in the draft thread that I thought would have been a better option, I know Kenny Stills name was tossed around. I don't know I was just never a big Dobson fan. I didn't like his hands or how he caught the ball in college and was worried about his lack of fight for the ball and inability to create seperation at the college level. I was called crazy for thinking that multiple times but that's how I felt about him then and still how I feel about him.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    You guys are being hindsight bias,  easy to attack BB now with Vareen out, but Vareen is a much better prospect. Vareen can run, catch in the flat, and is a match up nightmare for LBs as is Woodhead. But Vareen is faster, quicker, can line up and run up the middle consistently, can play slot and X WR....a most importantly, Vareen is good at picking up the blitz. Woodhead is just awful there.

    Why would Woodhead want to stay a back up when he can start? It was a good decision by BB.

    Also, who cares what Welker is doing? He isnt thinking about New England, why are you guys still thinking about him?

     

     

     

     

     



    Well the topic of the thread is about possible mistakes in personnel decisions and letting a highly productive and reliable receiver walk could be considered a mistake, no? 



    Depending on ones interpretation of reliable, a case could be made that the Pats didn't let a reliable receiver go!




    Really?

    To date

    Welker 4 drops

    Woody 1

    Pats, 23 (#1) drops with Thompkins and Dobson tied @#2 with 6 drops each.

    Elelman 5  That's 3 Pats receivers in the top 5.

    Bolden 3

    Dobson and, or Thompkins have  more than or equal drops to the following TEAMS.  TEAMS!

    Green Bay Packers 6 25 Tennessee Titans 6 26 New Orleans Saints 6 27 New York Jets 6 28 San Francisco 49ers 6 29 Oakland Raiders 5 30 San Diego Chargers 5 31 Seattle Seahawks 5 32 Minnesota Vikings 4

     Welker and Woody looking pretty good right now.

      It's not like this wasn't 100% predictable.

    All the players with history of injury are injured.

    As suggested, this position should have been addressed 3 years ago, one at a time. 

    Not all at once.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In retrospect we should have kept Woodhead but it's not going to make or break our season by any means. 

    I don't see how Woodhead would have been a deciding factor against the Bengals which is our only loss to date. 

    I would also beg to differ that Amendola was our biggest personnel mistake. His contract may need at least a year to judge. Let's say worst case scenario he doesn't play again this season. As long as Edelman plays well we have our slot guy anyhow. 

    At this point it's hard to talk about personnel mistakes beceause we just beat a very strong Saints team and are very much in the hunt in the AFC. Our receivers have struggled with consistency but I see way more raw talent than I did, for example, with Reche Caldwell. 

    We need some guys back, like Vereen, but there is time. 

    If the season goes off the rails then this is a topic that can be revisited. At the moment Gronk is the biggest question mark and could wind up being a huge mistake from the perspective of the contract he signed, but it's too early for that assessment. We need hi him back and productive if we want to field a championship level offense this season. 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 



    Yeah I hear what you were saying for my money I still would have signed Welker just to keep the guy around. Looking back I would have still extended Gronk and Hern because at that time they both got relatively team friendly deals compared to what TE's will be getting the next couple years. However, knowing what we know now about Hern I think I would have held off extending him until his rook deal was off. As such given what we had at TE going into the draft I wouldn't have looked for one in the draft.

    However, I would have went after Sanders harder as I think him and Welker could have been nice flex options moving inside and out adding flexibility and targetted an outside WR in the draft (like they did). I just wasn't a big Dobson fan at the time and still am not. Thompkins however, is a nice breath of fresh air. Terrance Williams was a guy brought up a lot in the draft thread that I thought would have been a better option, I know Kenny Stills name was tossed around. I don't know I was just never a big Dobson fan. I didn't like his hands or how he caught the ball in college and was worried about his lack of fight for the ball and inability to create seperation at the college level. I was called crazy for thinking that multiple times but that's how I felt about him then and still how I feel about him.



    Do you think the plan was sanders and amendola or one of the 2? 

    PI understand what you are saying about Dobson. At draft time, I think a few of us had about a half a dozen others listed ahead of him. if bb took welker and ah money and got a legit proven vet that can line up outside, we could have waited until round 3 or 4 for the Dobson pick...grabbing. WR to work behind the vet and there were still some pretty good ones on the board then. 

    I mentioned on MB's draft thread about grabbing another athletic TE but some said there were other priorities. Yes, there certainly were especially after signing ah, but again, I would have rode his rookie deal and drafted behind him. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    I thought using Woodhead instead of BJGE was the reason we lost that playoff game to the Jets a few years ago ...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    I think the Pats did want to keep Welker.  They just didn't want to tie up too much money for too long for him, given his age and value relative to other options.  If they knew Hern was going to jail, they may have moved more aggressively to get Welker signed.  With Hern on the team, though, I think they were willing to take a bit more risk with Amendola and Edelman in the slot, because those guys would not be such major parts of the offense if we had two real outside WRs, plus two good receiving TEs.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Always keeping in mind that the Patriots offered Welker more money than he's making now the season before last, before they invested the resources to sign Amendola.  There's only so much money you can allocate to the slot receiver position.



    If it was just a slot position I would agree Wozzy but we are talking a #1 receiver, not just a slot guy. Since we ended up spending nearly as much on a guy who can't even stay on the field it does say that per production value they spent more on Amendola than Welker got from Den so they are actually spending more to get less as of right now. That's not to mention if they decide to cut Amendola for any reason in the next 2 years the dead money they will incur because of it.



    Good point. perhaps that was the problem? Slot WR as our #1 option and 2 te's as our #2 & 3 options?

    i am not saying I am smarter than bb, however, I would have built the offense a bit differently. First, I would have extended Gronk like he did. But, I would have let ah ride on his rookie contract and taken the money we gave him and signed a quality deep threat. ah plays for another year or two and then we see what happens. I would have let welker walk and not signed amendola. I would drafted another big wr that can play outwide and also another TE Like ertz or fleener. 

    PI would have been left with Gronk and my rookie TE/ah/hooman as my te's, a proven vet WR outside, edelmn in the slot, and a rookie WR learning behind them. Add to that thompkins aS the udfa and I think the offense would have been okay. Gronk not playing and ah gone still leaves ertz/Fleener at TE plus hooman, edelman in the slot, vet WR outside and thompkins as well. When we run 4 WR sets, Fleener or ertz could have lined up as a WR, with Edelman, vet WR and thompkins Even with gronk and ah missing, still a potent offense. 



    Yes, but if you are planning on walking from Welkie, which it was clear by summer 2012, they were, who is your Welkie? It was Hernandez.  

    Would you rather have rented Welkie for 2 years, not resign Hernandez for those 2 and then lose Hernandez after 2014?

    Obviously now, this is a dead question, but just saying.  Some fans would have raced in here in 2014 and blamed BB for not investing in the younger Hernandez and trying to chase a ring for Welkie. Sometimes BB will never win with some people.

    That was the logic because letting either Gronk or AH go to FA would have meant easily losing one of them and then not having budget control over your 1st choice, which would have been Gronk.

    Bottom line is, anyone complaining about these approaches by BB does not get it.  Not saying you, but it's beyond lame to armchair QB these things. The approach is sound, everything else is fate and destiny that is out of a human's control.

     

     



    And just to elaborate...my approach wouldn't have factored in or arm chaired the ah situation. Meaning I am it saying this now because of what happened with ah, but rather where I chose to invest and in what positions. Clearly the pats offense has been 2 dimensioanl as I noted above. I would have invested my cash in 1 player representing the 3 dimensions and used my drafting to add 1 player to each dimension. 2 is 1 and 1 is none. 



    WHat is your definition of 3 dimension and 2 dimension?

    I think BB viewed Hernandez as a guy who could go wide and inside, where Welker could only stay on the inside to be effective due to his height.

    Add in the age element, and there's the reasoning.

    Fact is, you aren't finding a Hernandez every day of a tree.  Fleener is nowhere near Hernandez's talent level.

    Again, the logic is quite sound. In 2015 when the cap goes up and you have some Fleener type wanting perceived market value, for example, he would have gotten more than Hernandez assuming the production is similar.

    Hence, why BB was trying to pay ahead of market. These are things that you really can't fault. I am not saying you are, but if you're nitpicking in terms of saying "I would draft the move TE because you can find a Hernandez talent in ever draft", then we disagree.

    Hernandez was a 1st rd pick without the weed or immaturity issues.  Dustin Keller was a 1st rd pick, for example and he's nowhere near Hernandez level.



    Short, middle, long/outside part of the field. I personally don't think ah was a threat on the outside at least not like a true wideout. He was better there using him like you mentioned using welker there. Hern worked the short and middle like welker. I don't think he added anything on the outside. 

    PI know ah was a unique talent, but honestly I think he was somewhat overrated. I think with bb and tb coaching them up and tb slinging the ball, they could have taken great advantage of either ertz and Fleener. I think either of those kids are as athletic as Hernandez. 

    again, I am not armchairing. I am saying my approach out of the gate would be a bit different. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I think the Pats did want to keep Welker.  They just didn't want to tie up too much money for too long for him, given his age and value relative to other options.  If they knew Hern was going to jail, they may have moved more aggressively to get Welker signed.  With Hern on the team, though, I think they were willing to take a bit more risk with Amendola and Edelman in the slot, because those guys would not be such major parts of the offense if we had two real outside WRs, plus two good receiving TEs.

    Good post, hindsight is always 20/20.  There are always plenty of "experts" here a year after a trade or draft pick is made.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     


    Do you think the plan was sanders and amendola or one of the 2? 

    PI understand what you are saying about Dobson. At draft time, I think a few of us had about a half a dozen others listed ahead of him. if bb took welker and ah money and got a legit proven vet that can line up outside, we could have waited until round 3 or 4 for the Dobson pick...grabbing. WR to work behind the vet and there were still some pretty good ones on the board then. 

    I mentioned on MB's draft thread about grabbing another athletic TE but some said there were other priorities. Yes, there certainly were especially after signing ah, but again, I would have rode his rookie deal and drafted behind him. 



    I think the plan was both Sanders and Amendola. That would make the most sense to me. If Amendola was injured than Sanders could have taken most of the snaps and still given the rooks time to develop but as I said before I think they went after the deal and not the player. Personally for me my belief was they wanted Welker and Sanders and targeted both but had Amendola and Jones as backup plans (as both seem to match up to the targeted players but had injury histories). Instead they got their deals and ended up cutting one and having a game and half production from the other so far. If they had Sanders I don't think the injures would have been as big of a deal and I wonder if the Cin game would have been closer but in the end they didn't go that route. Looking at the current O Sanders would be a perfect fit for what they are doing right now. He could play inside or out and gives you enough versitility that with Edelman on the field you could have a 3 WR set switching Dobson and Thompkins in and out with each other which would make perfect sense.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I think the Pats did want to keep Welker.  They just didn't want to tie up too much money for too long for him, given his age and value relative to other options.  If they knew Hern was going to jail, they may have moved more aggressively to get Welker signed.  With Hern on the team, though, I think they were willing to take a bit more risk with Amendola and Edelman in the slot, because those guys would not be such major parts of the offense if we had two real outside WRs, plus two good receiving TEs.

    Good post, hindsight is always 20/20.  There are always plenty of "experts" here a year after a trade or draft pick is made.



    There's hindsight and then there is a different strategy. The 2 are not necessarily the same. And there were plenty of folks on MB's draft thread advocating for different players well before they produced in the nfl or were chosen.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    Next year, Dobson amd Thompkins would have matured into reliable and talented WRs while Welker's decline continues. This year, they're dropping the ball a lot, sure. But the Pats are still 5-1, without Gronkowski and Vareen.

    What i dont understand is why the Welker lovefest continues. Welker made an conscientious decision to go play for New England's biggest rival in the AFC, Brady's biggest rival, BB's toughest defensive match up and the QB all Pats fans love to hate in Peyton Manning. And this was after BB offered him more money and an equal amount of years.

    That little shht is trying to undermine the greatest coach of all time and you clowns are here swooning for him? How many SBs did the Patriots win without BB at the helm? 0, they lost 2 though. How many SBs did the Pats win with Welker? Exactly, and dont give me that Brady is responsible as much as BB stuff.

    No BB, no Brady. Belichick is the only one who have him a shot, the guy wasnt even planning to play football. Belichick needed the cap space because he knew he needed a better defense, Tom had tried twice and failed to win it all when the defense cracked. That lite shht  and his agent were trying to get a deal that would've made even locking up Talib for this year difficult to impossible.

    Welker's greed and ego are why he's no longer a Patriot, BB wasnt going to be held hostage by that unclutch midget. You guys can side with the ingrate all you want, Im siding with coach.

    He was right about McGinest, Law, Vrabel, Seymour and Moss. He'll prove right about Welker, like he always is.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    I thought using Woodhead instead of BJGE was the reason we lost that playoff game to the Jets a few years ago ...



    I agree it was. Woodhead is too small to go against that line at the time and he's not a #1 back. But as a #3 type of back where he gets 5-10 carries a game and 5-10 recs situatinoally he is an ideal role for this team. For what he went to SD for I do think it was a mistake to let him go considering the value to the team he had and that Vereen hasn't shown to be able to sustain health in his pro career so far

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    Would you rather have Talib or Welker? I know i would take Talib over paying Welker his Larry Fitzgerald level contract he asked for in 2011.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    What i dont understand is why the Welker lovefest continues. Welker made an conscientious decision to go play for New England's biggest rival in the AFC, Brady's biggest rival, BB's toughest defensive match up and the QB all Pats fans love to hate in Peyton Manning. And this was after BB offered him more money and an equal amount of years.

    That little shht is trying to undermine the greatest coach of all time and you clowns are here swooning for him? How many SBs did the Patriots win without BB at the helm? 0, they lost 2 though. How many SBs did the Pats win with Welker? Exactly, and dont give me that Brady is responsible as much as BB stuff.

     



    49 it takes two to tango and who benched him during a critical playoff game for making foot puns? I mean really, you need to take the ruby glasses off as loyalty goes both ways and this is a business afterall. I would say letting Welker go to a major contender in your conference and replacing him with someone who's on the bench more often than on the field over a mil or two and some foot puns is just bad GM decisions and spite. If anyone undermined BB it was BB the GM letting personal feelings get in the way of what was best for the football team as a whole.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    Guy spits in our faces and you guys are saying it's our fault for not moving.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from theshinez. Show theshinez's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:

    Next year, Dobson amd Thompkins would have matured into reliable and talented WRs while Welker's decline continues. This year, they're dropping the ball a lot, sure. But the Pats are still 5-1, without Gronkowski and Vareen.

    What i dont understand is why the Welker lovefest continues. Welker made an conscientious decision to go play for New England's biggest rival in the AFC, Brady's biggest rival, BB's toughest defensive match up and the QB all Pats fans love to hate in Peyton Manning. And this was after BB offered him more money and an equal amount of years.

    That little shht is trying to undermine the greatest coach of all time and you clowns are here swooning for him? How many SBs did the Patriots win without BB at the helm? 0, they lost 2 though. How many SBs did the Pats win with Welker? Exactly, and dont give me that Brady is responsible as much as BB stuff.

    No BB, no Brady. Belichick is the only one who have him a shot, the guy wasnt even planning to play football. Belichick needed the cap space because he knew he needed a better defense, Tom had tried twice and failed to win it all when the defense cracked. That lite shht  and his agent were trying to get a deal that would've made even locking up Talib for this year difficult to impossible.

    Welker's greed and ego are why he's no longer a Patriot, BB wasnt going to be held hostage by that unclutch midget. You guys can side with the ingrate all you want, Im siding with coach.

    He was right about McGinest, Law, Vrabel, Seymour and Moss. He'll prove right about Welker, like he always is.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    I agree 100%.  I agree that Welker became too much of a security blanket for Brady.  And when he wanted too much $$, BB wan't going to be held hostage. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    What i dont understand is why the Welker lovefest continues. Welker made an conscientious decision to go play for New England's biggest rival in the AFC, Brady's biggest rival, BB's toughest defensive match up and the QB all Pats fans love to hate in Peyton Manning. And this was after BB offered him more money and an equal amount of years.

    That little shht is trying to undermine the greatest coach of all time and you clowns are here swooning for him? How many SBs did the Patriots win without BB at the helm? 0, they lost 2 though. How many SBs did the Pats win with Welker? Exactly, and dont give me that Brady is responsible as much as BB stuff.

     



    49 it takes two to tango and who benched him during a critical playoff game for making foot puns? I mean really, you need to take the ruby glasses off as loyalty goes both ways and this is a business afterall. I would say letting Welker go to a major contender in your conference and replacing him with someone who's on the bench more often than on the field over a mil or two and some foot puns is just bad GM decisions and spite. If anyone undermined BB it was BB the GM letting personal feelings get in the way of what was best for the football team as a whole.




    Correct me if im wrong, but i believe BB told everyone that Rex was a good friend of his and that he had great respect for him. He also told them, the entire team, that they were not allowed to insult him in anyway. The little twerp disregarded a direct order from the top and gave the Jets bulletin board material, which if I remember correct, was one of the reason Bart Scott listed in his "can't wait" rant for the Jets playing so hard on defense. Bruschi wouldn't have made foot puns, but   then again, Bruschi wouldn't have left for the Colts if BB didnt give him Urlarcher money.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Biggest Personnel Mistake Besides Amendola

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Would you rather have Talib or Welker? I know i would take Talib over paying Welker his Larry Fitzgerald level contract he asked for in 2011.



    Nonsense. Welker wasn't asking for Fitzgerald money. Talib will be looking for that kind of money. Talib is going to get paid based on how he is playing this year. Not sure the pats can afford him. I would have let welker walk. I would rather have Talib but we are talking about 2 different positions and 2 different pay grades. 

     
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