Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     




    This is a good point, Babe. There is a big difference between being critical of something that the person did not do well, versus saying the person being bad at his job.

     

    People get all defensive for the person whose deed is being critiqued, and label the person critiquing a hater. That's how most of the flame wars get started on this boards. Can be avoided if people can remember to make the distinction described above.

    That applies to critiques on BB's actions. But it should also apply to critiques on TB's actions.

    Where I draw the line is when, on top of the critique, people start saying he's not the right person for the job.

    So, here I go at labeling, and making sweeping conclusions based on the above...

    1. You hate BB as a GM. You want that role to be done by someone else. But you want him to remain to be the coach.

    2. There are some of us who scratch our heads over some of the things that BB does in coaching and drafting, it does not mean they hate BB or that they want BB to give up either role.

    3. Most people who critique TB don't hate TB at QB. They (actually I am part of this) want him to continue to QB for the Pats. But they also want him to raise his game on SBs and playoff games - not make rookie mistakes. That's really what won them the 3 SB games - not the great Ds.

    4. Where Rusty is with regard to #3, I am not sure. He's farther to an extreme than most. Maybe you can ask him what he wants to happen, bottomline.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

    Brady is not perfect, but there has never been a better QB. His play in the post-season remains good, but the team around him has deteriorated and often he is the only thing even remotely working. Then foolish fans condemn his play because he couldn't lift the entire team on his back yet again and win it.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    My two cents;  BB is a leader.  He is a risk taker.  He doesn't just accept conventional wisdom or worry that by doing something unconventional he will suffer ridicule.  

    He looks at questions from the media like a CEO who has been asked what his strategy is to gain  a competitive advantage in their industry.  Are you kidding me?

    People that are critical of him as a GM are usually talking about personnel.  No GM is perfect.  He manages the cap and drafts around number 30 in every round every year.  He misses sometimes. (See risk taker). BTW, they all miss sometimes.

    He is loyal to his friends.  He is a fun guy.  Who else would let Doug Flutie try a drop kick?

    Bill Belichick doesn't care what we think about him.  He is the most interesting man in the world!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     

     




    This is a good point, Babe. There is a big difference between being critical of something that the person did not do well, versus saying the person being bad at his job.

     

     

    People get all defensive for the person whose deed is being critiqued, and label the person critiquing a hater. That's how most of the flame wars get started on this boards. Can be avoided if people can remember to make the distinction described above.

    That applies to critiques on BB's actions. But it should also apply to critiques on TB's actions.

    Where I draw the line is when, on top of the critique, people start saying he's not the right person for the job.

    So, here I go at labeling, and making sweeping conclusions based on the above...

    1. You hate BB as a GM. You want that role to be done by someone else. But you want him to remain to be the coach.

    2. There are some of us who scratch our heads over some of the things that BB does in coaching and drafting, it does not mean they hate BB or that they want BB to give up either role.

    3. Most people who critique TB don't hate TB at QB. They (actually I am part of this) want him to continue to QB for the Pats. But they also want him to raise his game on SBs and playoff games - not make rookie mistakes. That's really what won them the 3 SB games - not the great Ds.

    4. Where Rusty is with regard to #3, I am not sure. He's farther to an extreme than most. Maybe you can ask him what he wants to happen, bottomline.

     

     

     




    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

     

    Brady is not perfect, but there has never been a better QB. His play in the post-season remains good, but the team around him has deteriorated and often he is the only thing even remotely working. Then foolish fans condemn his play because he couldn't lift the entire team on his back yet again and win it.

     

     



    Maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but it seems to me that you recently referred to BB as being "stupid", as a GM, based upon the performance of his newest players to date.  I remember that I responded to you, asking how a 3-0 start to the season could suggest his moves in the off-season were stupid.  Now, maybe it's just because you are such an inheritantly angry person that you used that word.  I don't know.  The point is, I don't think most of us would consider even an average GM as being stupid.  To me, it suggests an even lower opinion of the person.  I'm pretty sure you think he sucks.  Am I right?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     




    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

     

     

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

     


    Obviously, if BB kept Brady, that is him as a coach making that choice, not him as a GM. You can't have it both ways.

    Brady was already outplaying Drew in practice before Drew ever got hurt. A guy who is going to be the GOAT doesn't suck at any point in his development. BB kept him because he was obviously good.

    And BB kept playing him because he wasn't the INT machine that Drew always was (and Mallet will probably be.). After taking Carrol's team that hadn't had a losing season in 3 years to a 5-11 record, his job was probably on the line. So Brady probably saved BB's job.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

    My two cents;  BB is a leader.  He is a risk taker.  He doesn't just accept conventional wisdom or worry that by doing something unconventional he will suffer ridicule.  

    He looks at questions from the media like a CEO who has been asked what his strategy is to gain  a competitive in their industry.  Are you kidding me?

    People that are critical of him as a GM are usually talking about personnel.  No GM is perfect.  He manages the cap and drafts around number 30 in every round every year.  He misses sometimes. (See risk taker). BTW, they all miss sometimes.

    He is loyal to his friends.  He is a fun guy.  Who else would let Doug Flutie try a drop kick?

    Bill Belichick doesn't care what we think about him.  He is the most interesting man in the world!



    Absolutely!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    "Rehbein, a spiritual man, had thanked God many times for his good health, and his good fortune.

    He accepted a job with the Patriots in February 2000, after eight years with the New York Giants, and was brimming with optimism after he met with Bledsoe, describing the quarterback to his wife as ''a phenomenal athlete, and even better person.''

    But Rehbein had his eye on another quarterback, too. He was one who stumped noisily for New England to select Tom Brady with a sixth-round pick in the 2000 draft. He met with the kid and promised to help him become an NFL starter some day.

    ''He came home one night and said to me, `Pam, this kid Tom Brady is terrific,''' Pam Rehbein said. ''He told me, `He's going to be a household name some day, just like Bledsoe or Montana.''' (BDC)

    Thankfully, BB listened.




    This is a dumb argument.  First of all BB had to send Rehbein to scout Brady in the first place meaning he was already on the team's radar.  Second of all it is insane to not give BB credit for the pick just because Rehbein may have clamored for the team to draft Brady.  I can assure you that tons of scouts and coaches push players they want the team to draft that never get drafted.  More importantly by this logic no GM in the NFL should get credit for any picks their team makes.  Do you think BB is the only guy on the staff that wanted Seymour or Mankins or Wilfork?  Of course not, but ultimately BB gets final say.  That's the point.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to Section136's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

     

     



    I looked it up. This team is .500 with BB and no Brady.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You can't really count the first year BB was the HC and GM in 2000. It wasn't "This" team yet. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     




    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

     

     

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

     




    Brady was already outplaying Drew in practice before Drew ever got hurt. A guy who is going to be the GOAT doesn't suck at any point in his development. BB kept him because he was obviously good.

     

    And BB kept playing him because he wasn't the INT machine that Drew always was (and Mallet will probably be.).

     



    I'm pretty sure most people were screaming for Michael Bishop back then.  Shows what the average fan knows!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Section136's comment:

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    And yet another thread that started out good.....ruined. Shocker....

     

     




    Yup

     

    [/QUOTE]


    And the ruin started immediately after the op. Can't blame Rusty this time.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Section136's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

     

     

     



    I looked it up. This team is .500 with BB and no Brady.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You can't really count the first year BB was the HC and GM in 2000. It wasn't "This" team yet. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh really? Then are we going to remove the years he had Law, Bruschi, McGinist, Vinatieri, Faulk, Milloy, Johnson, Jones and Woody from BB's record of accomplishments in this as well?

    Because that would be the objective thing to do based on your premise.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     




    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

     

     

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

     




    Brady was already outplaying Drew in practice before Drew ever got hurt. A guy who is going to be the GOAT doesn't suck at any point in his development. BB kept him because he was obviously good.

     

    And BB kept playing him because he wasn't the INT machine that Drew always was (and Mallet will probably be.).

     

     



    I'm pretty sure most people were screaming for Michael Bishop back then.  Shows what the average fan knows!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    if you've seen "the Brady Six", BB talks about drafting Brady and why he dropped to the sixth round.  I know that for most people here it's old news but Brady kept getting pulled at Michigan in favor of his back up.

    BB said this guy looked great to us but there must be a reason they keep taking him out of games.

    It turns out the Michigan coaching staff was afraid that Brady's successor would leave to play baseball so they kept putting him in.  I think the kid went to play baseball anyhow.  Turned out that the Michigan coaches should have just let Brady lead their team. Bet he would have been a first rounder and probably would have went to the Niners or something.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    In response to Section136's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

     

     

     

     



    I looked it up. This team is .500 with BB and no Brady.

     

     

     

     



    You can't really count the first year BB was the HC and GM in 2000. It wasn't "This" team yet. 

     

     




    Oh really? Then are we going to remove the years he had Law, Bruschi, McGinist, Vinatieri, Faulk, Milloy, Johnson, Jones and Woody from BB's record of accomplishments in this as well?

     

    Because that would be the objective thing to do based on your premise.

     



    I think that complaining that BB didn't demonstrate any genius in his early years is rather foolish.  To me, his teams' records are a reflection of his learning curve.  The fact is, that he was just learning his job early on.  Consequently, he had less success.  As time passed, his teams became increasingly successful.  Now, you have those that believe that Brady is the one truly responsible for this success.  Well, I guess we are going to be finding out where the truth lies sooner rather than later.  Me, I put my money on BB.  If I'm wrong...it's been a helluva ride.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    "Rehbein, a spiritual man, had thanked God many times for his good health, and his good fortune.

    He accepted a job with the Patriots in February 2000, after eight years with the New York Giants, and was brimming with optimism after he met with Bledsoe, describing the quarterback to his wife as ''a phenomenal athlete, and even better person.''

    But Rehbein had his eye on another quarterback, too. He was one who stumped noisily for New England to select Tom Brady with a sixth-round pick in the 2000 draft. He met with the kid and promised to help him become an NFL starter some day.

    ''He came home one night and said to me, `Pam, this kid Tom Brady is terrific,''' Pam Rehbein said. ''He told me, `He's going to be a household name some day, just like Bledsoe or Montana.''' (BDC)

    Thankfully, BB listened.

     




    This is a dumb argument.  First of all BB had to send Rehbein to scout Brady in the first place meaning he was already on the team's radar.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Not really. It is clear that Rehbein made a pest of himself to get Brady drafted. HE is the man who pushed this. And Brady's head coach at Michigan claims Grier was the one who contacted him about Brady.

    BB's impact on this is very flimsy compared to those two. At best, BB simply went along with what other people were pushing on that pick. There is simply no evidence out there whatsoever that shows BB was the guy who "discovered" Brady.

    Trying to spin this as a BB the GM brilliant move is what is the dumb (homer) stuff.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     




    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

     

     

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

     




    Brady was already outplaying Drew in practice before Drew ever got hurt. A guy who is going to be the GOAT doesn't suck at any point in his development. BB kept him because he was obviously good.

     

    And BB kept playing him because he wasn't the INT machine that Drew always was (and Mallet will probably be.).

     

     

     



    I'm pretty sure most people were screaming for Michael Bishop back then.  Shows what the average fan knows!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    if you've seen "the Brady Six", BB talks about drafting Brady and why he dropped to the sixth round.  I know that for most people here it's old news but Brady kept getting pulled at Michigan in favor of his back up.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's why Grier called the Michigan coach. Brady was a victim of politics on that team. Generally, he came in and won the games when Henson couldn't. Then went right back to the bench.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     

     




    This is a good point, Babe. There is a big difference between being critical of something that the person did not do well, versus saying the person being bad at his job.

     

     

    People get all defensive for the person whose deed is being critiqued, and label the person critiquing a hater. That's how most of the flame wars get started on this boards. Can be avoided if people can remember to make the distinction described above.

    That applies to critiques on BB's actions. But it should also apply to critiques on TB's actions.

    Where I draw the line is when, on top of the critique, people start saying he's not the right person for the job.

    So, here I go at labeling, and making sweeping conclusions based on the above...

    1. You hate BB as a GM. You want that role to be done by someone else. But you want him to remain to be the coach.

    2. There are some of us who scratch our heads over some of the things that BB does in coaching and drafting, it does not mean they hate BB or that they want BB to give up either role.

    3. Most people who critique TB don't hate TB at QB. They (actually I am part of this) want him to continue to QB for the Pats. But they also want him to raise his game on SBs and playoff games - not make rookie mistakes. That's really what won them the 3 SB games - not the great Ds.

    4. Where Rusty is with regard to #3, I am not sure. He's farther to an extreme than most. Maybe you can ask him what he wants to happen, bottomline.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

    Brady is not perfect, but there has never been a better QB. His play in the post-season remains good, but the team around him has deteriorated and often he is the only thing even remotely working. Then foolish fans condemn his play because he couldn't lift the entire team on his back yet again and win it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

    Ultimately, do you or don't you want him to give up that role?

    Brady is not perfect, but there has never been a better QB. His play in the post-season remains good, but the team around him has deteriorated and often he is the only thing even remotely working. Then foolish fans condemn his play because he couldn't lift the entire team on his back yet again and win it.

    Here, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    1) Fans condemn his play in SB 42 and 46 because it was below what he showed he was capable of on the preceeding reg season. If at all, the SB is the time to elevate his play. He did that in 2001, 2003 and 2004.

    2) The talented Ds of 2001 and 2003 give up 14 and 19 fourth quarter points respectively. It wasn't just that the Ds then were not clutch. TB saved the talented Ds from their choke. SB 39, Pats D was helped a lot by PHI doing a bad job of managing the time.

    3) TB was able to do that with a receiving corps that had far less talent than the 2007 or 2011 unit. None of the receivers back then had decent careers outside of NWE. On the other hand 2007 and 2011 receivers had decent to great careers. 2007: HOFer #1; #2 is playing well in Denver; #3 had a career outside NWE no worse than the receivers from 2001-2004. 2011: Welker, Gronk, AH -- Not even comparable.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:


    Ahhh, Explain why BB the GM has NEVER won GM of the year and Pioli has, twice with the Pats, I believe, and once with the Chiefs.

     

    It's really simple.  Pioli was the GM and BB is the coach. 

    There needs to be checks and balances in every organization.  Gm's and coaches generally work together for the same goal, but without those checks and balances, you have one person making all the decisions. 

    No GM makes every decision.  Neither should any coach.


    What is especially fascinating is that the the two guys possibly most responsible for bringing the recent plethora of success to our beloved team are probably Grier and Rehbein. Without them, no Brady.

    And they are hardly ever mentioned.

    Yes, BB is a big part of it too, but not because he chose Brady. He is because as an excellent coach he recognized Brady's greatness on the field.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     

     

     




    This is a good point, Babe. There is a big difference between being critical of something that the person did not do well, versus saying the person being bad at his job.

     

     

     

    People get all defensive for the person whose deed is being critiqued, and label the person critiquing a hater. That's how most of the flame wars get started on this boards. Can be avoided if people can remember to make the distinction described above.

    That applies to critiques on BB's actions. But it should also apply to critiques on TB's actions.

    Where I draw the line is when, on top of the critique, people start saying he's not the right person for the job.

    So, here I go at labeling, and making sweeping conclusions based on the above...

    1. You hate BB as a GM. You want that role to be done by someone else. But you want him to remain to be the coach.

    2. There are some of us who scratch our heads over some of the things that BB does in coaching and drafting, it does not mean they hate BB or that they want BB to give up either role.

    3. Most people who critique TB don't hate TB at QB. They (actually I am part of this) want him to continue to QB for the Pats. But they also want him to raise his game on SBs and playoff games - not make rookie mistakes. That's really what won them the 3 SB games - not the great Ds.

    4. Where Rusty is with regard to #3, I am not sure. He's farther to an extreme than most. Maybe you can ask him what he wants to happen, bottomline.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

     

    Brady is not perfect, but there has never been a better QB. His play in the post-season remains good, but the team around him has deteriorated and often he is the only thing even remotely working. Then foolish fans condemn his play because he couldn't lift the entire team on his back yet again and win it.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't hate BB as a GM. He's average. I could only hate him as a GM if he were terrible.

     

    Ultimately, do you or don't you want him to give up that role?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He needs to give up that role. Mediocrity is insufficient. But it's too late now anyway. The damage is done.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Not really. It is clear that Rehbein made a pest of himself to get Brady drafted. HE is the man who pushed this. And Brady's head coach at Michigan claims Grier was the one who contacted him about Brady.

    BB's impact on this is very flimsy compared to those two. At best, BB simply went along with what other people were pushing on that pick. There is simply no evidence out there whatsoever that shows BB was the guy who "discovered" Brady.

    Trying to spin this as a BB the GM brilliant move is what is the dumb (homer) stuff.

    You completely ignored my point.  Rehbein did pester BB about drafting Brady, but he was sent by BB and Pioli to scout Brady in the first place.  How do I know this?  Because Charlie Weis said so in the interviews he gave for that Yahoo! Sports piece written about Rehbein:

    Scott Pioli and head coach Bill Belichick made a list of six quarterback prospects and asked Dick to evaluate them. “Scott and Bill had to find [Brady] first,” Weis says.  


    In addition I like how you ignored the rest of my post which you obviously didn't have a response to.  I'll post it again for you:

    It is insane to not give BB credit for the pick just because Rehbein may have clamored for the team to draft Brady.  I can assure you that tons of scouts and coaches push players they want the team to draft that never get drafted.  More importantly by this logic no GM in the NFL should get credit for any picks their team makes.  Do you think BB is the only guy on the staff that wanted Seymour or Mankins or Wilfork?  Of course not, but ultimately BB gets final say.  That's the point.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    In response to Section136's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment: 

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach I have ever watched in the NFL.  The man is just plain fascinating to watch work.  He was the reason I became a Pats fan.  You go back and look at the team of coaches he surrounded himself with in Cleveland, some very recognizable names there.  Had the Browns never left and moved to Baltimore that Browns team would have won a couple of Super Bowls with Bill Belichick.  And it's possible he may have never joined the Patriots.  How crazy is that.  If you watched the NFL network 2 part show about Belichick you would probably agree that it was some of the best tv ever.  To get a little look of BB behind the scenes is amazing tv.

    However, as much as I like BB, I have no problem being objective and admitting he has some faults. 

    He is horrible in most interviews.  He really could be better with the media.  This really hurts how the team is perceived by others.  One of the reasons the team is so disliked by fans and some players around the league.

    I think he controls too much.  I think being the head coach and the GM is a conflict of interest and is the reason why BB is not the great GM some like to think he is.  I think overall the team suffers because they do not have a good GM who isn't also the coach.

    It's great fun having a team and players you like and cheer for but it takes the experience to a whole higher level when you have an amazing coach that you find fascinating and look forward to watching coach on Sunday just as much as you enjoy watching the players play.  That is what you get with Bill Belicheck as your teams head coach. 

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     



    Since coming to this board and reading all the criticism of BB's drafting I've done some research on the drafting success of the 32 NFL teams since 2000. The Patriots are always in the top ten as far as drafting successful players. Don't take my word for it do the work yourself but those are the results. 

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

    So - stop b!tching and enjoy the ride! My God, what do you people expect? How about being a Brown's fan?

    As far as the original post goes - it doesn't suprise me that this info is not common knowledge - that's Belichick....like it or leave it!! 

    UNQUOTE 

    I'm afraid that unvarnished, truly objective observations such as these are lost on those who choose to believe what they choose to believe.  



    There was a motherload of varnish on that; pure homer cherry picked BS, not objectivity.

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet when repeatedly asked to produce a thread that counters the analysis that you dismiss you have repeatedly declined to do so.  Seriously, Babe, give us something else beyond your cavalier dismissals and we can have a discussion about it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    1) Fans condemn his play in SB 42 and 46 because it was below what he showed he was capable of on the preceeding reg season.



    ^ Typical wrong-headed thinking that is constantly displayed on this board.

    Did you expect Brady to throw up his best numbers while he was being body slammed all day in the 2007 SB?????????????????????????????????????

    Despite that huge burden Tom did manage to drive the team for the go ahead points when clutch time arrived, as he nearly always does.

    It is absolutely SHAMELESS to criticize his play in SB 42.

    Some of you just really don't deserve Tom Brady on your team.

    (And complaining about Brady's 100 passer rating (before the final desperate drive the D collapse forced on him) in SB 46 is just plain silly.)

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Section136's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment: 

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach I have ever watched in the NFL.  The man is just plain fascinating to watch work.  He was the reason I became a Pats fan.  You go back and look at the team of coaches he surrounded himself with in Cleveland, some very recognizable names there.  Had the Browns never left and moved to Baltimore that Browns team would have won a couple of Super Bowls with Bill Belichick.  And it's possible he may have never joined the Patriots.  How crazy is that.  If you watched the NFL network 2 part show about Belichick you would probably agree that it was some of the best tv ever.  To get a little look of BB behind the scenes is amazing tv.

    However, as much as I like BB, I have no problem being objective and admitting he has some faults. 

    He is horrible in most interviews.  He really could be better with the media.  This really hurts how the team is perceived by others.  One of the reasons the team is so disliked by fans and some players around the league.

    I think he controls too much.  I think being the head coach and the GM is a conflict of interest and is the reason why BB is not the great GM some like to think he is.  I think overall the team suffers because they do not have a good GM who isn't also the coach.

    It's great fun having a team and players you like and cheer for but it takes the experience to a whole higher level when you have an amazing coach that you find fascinating and look forward to watching coach on Sunday just as much as you enjoy watching the players play.  That is what you get with Bill Belicheck as your teams head coach. 

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     



    Since coming to this board and reading all the criticism of BB's drafting I've done some research on the drafting success of the 32 NFL teams since 2000. The Patriots are always in the top ten as far as drafting successful players. Don't take my word for it do the work yourself but those are the results. 

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

    So - stop b!tching and enjoy the ride! My God, what do you people expect? How about being a Brown's fan?

    As far as the original post goes - it doesn't suprise me that this info is not common knowledge - that's Belichick....like it or leave it!! 

    UNQUOTE 

    I'm afraid that unvarnished, truly objective observations such as these are lost on those who choose to believe what they choose to believe.  

     



    There was a motherload of varnish on that; pure homer cherry picked BS, not objectivity.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet when repeatedly asked to produce a thread that counters the analysis that you dismiss you have repeatedly declined to do so.  Seriously, Babe, give us something else beyond your cavalier dismissals and we can have a discussion about it.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I already provided proof of the varnish.

    Stating this - "Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up."

    Is completely undone by pointing out that without Brady, BB's record with the Pats is .500.

    Is that fact not valid enough for you to discount the varnish?

    (As far as the drafting part of your query, bring me a specific analysis, and I will tear it to shreds as I have done to them all in the past. The irrefutable fact on drafting is zero SB wins in 8 years.)

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

     

    1) Fans condemn his play in SB 42 and 46 because it was below what he showed he was capable of on the preceeding reg season.

     



    ^ Typical wrong-headed thinking that is constantly displayed on this board.

     

    Did you expect Brady to throw up his best numbers while he was being body slammed all day in the 2007 SB?????????????????????????????????????

    Despite that huge burden Tom did manage to drive the team for the go ahead points when clutch time arrived, as he nearly always does.

    It is absolutely SHAMELESS to criticize his play in SB 42.

    Some of you just really don't deserve Tom Brady on your team.

    (And complaining about Brady's 100 passer rating (before the final desperate drive the D collapse forced on him) in SB 46 is just plain silly.)

     



    I'm not all that hung up about SB 42, but SB 46 is another matter.  The fact is that the offense failed to score in half of the game.  Another fact is that the offense handed the opposing team 2 points and excellent field position that helped to result in another 7 points.  Of course, it's not all on TB, but please stop pretending that he had nothing to do with it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    Well I thought this was going to be a nice thread and of course Rusty got involved.  

    He didn't know how close Bill and Jim Brown have been over the years after the Browns left Cleveland.  He didn't know all the support Bill gave Jim Brown with his charity work.  He didn't know that Belichick was in Browns top 3 of most respected friends.  Yet he acts like he knows it all.  Shocker, huh!?!?!  And then thinks it's crazy if we dont.  A lot of it is not documented so how the heck would Rusty even know?  What a troll.

    And now to look at all the other garbage he is posting in this thread, I wish the fraud would just leave.  This place is so much better when he is away from it.  Problem is he is hardly ever away.  His telephone customer service gig must be slow as it looks like he has been hitting the bottle pretty heavy, heavier then most times, the past few weeks.

     

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    I already provided proof of the varnish.

    Stating this - "Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up."

    You and I define the word 'proof' differently, Babe.

     

    Is completely undone by pointing out that without Brady, BB's record with the Pats is .500.  

    Is that fact not valid enough for you to discount the varnish?

    Not even close, Babe.  Not even close.

     

    (As far as the drafting part of your query, bring me a specific analysis, and I will tear it to shreds as I have done to them all in the past. The irrefutable fact on drafting is zero SB wins in 8 years.)

    Actually, Babe, you repeatedly make this claim but you haven't torn anything to shreds with the possible exception of your own credibility.  Continuing to make baseless claims without any thrid party reference to support your assertions is hardly tearing objective analysis to shreds.




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    1) Fans condemn his play in SB 42 and 46 because it was below what he showed he was capable of on the preceeding reg season.

     



    ^ Typical wrong-headed thinking that is constantly displayed on this board.

     

    Did you expect Brady to throw up his best numbers while he was being body slammed all day in the 2007 SB?????????????????????????????????????

    Despite that huge burden Tom did manage to drive the team for the go ahead points when clutch time arrived, as he nearly always does.

    It is absolutely SHAMELESS to criticize his play in SB 42.

    Some of you just really don't deserve Tom Brady on your team.

    (And complaining about Brady's 100 passer rating (before the final desperate drive the D collapse forced on him) in SB 46 is just plain silly.)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "Did you expect Brady to throw up his best numbers while he was being body slammed all day in the 2007 SB..."

    Well, isn't that an issue with the O? I can agree that it is wrong to blame that on TB alone. I would not even debate you if you said offensive planning was poor.

    But, if you are making excuses for the O, why are you putting the blame on the D? If you think about it the D did a good job of putting the Pats in great position to win - i.e., tip the probability of winning on their side. Unfortunately, a lot of improbable things happened.

    1) One could argue that the last drive was a perfect storm of events that improbably did not go Pats' way. A sack that Eli that improbably escaped from, largely because of a holding penalty that improbably was not called, followed by an Eli throw while he was being pulled down, then the throw improbably finding a receiver, and the well-covered receiver improbably making the catch against his helmet.

    2) The play was unfortunate. Ultimately, the aggregate play of the D put the Pats in position to win - i.e., should have tipped the probability of winning in favor of the Pats. How many teams have won the SB with no more than 17 points. You'd have to go all the way to 70s to find a team that won the SB with 17 pts or less.

    3) NYG improbably kept the greatest show on turf, the record-breaking Pats offense (2007 Pats was a greater show than the 2001 STL), down to 14 pts. Heck, even TB laughed off a statement by one of the NYG players - that NYG was going to hold the Pats below 20 or something like that.

    One probable thing actually happened... The team that scores less than 15 pts loses the SB game.

     

     

     

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share