Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    .

    Someday when he retires I hope that he will write a detailed, no holds barred autobiography that opens up all the curtains on his time with the Pats. I think it would make absolutely fascinating reading.

     




    This is also what Im waiting for. I am hoping he opens up the pandoras box to all the strange things that happen over the years and all the outside the box stuff. lets also give credit to Ernie Adams, a guy who has been behind the scenes for years. He is part of the genius. He has drawn up some of these game plans that BB gets credit for. Not a slight, just a observation for those who dont know

     

    I want him to sit here with a stogie and say, Yea I def. flubbed up w/ocho, that son of a gun was dumber than a bag of rocks!  LOL



    True. Adams has a photographic memory. Mine is pretty good where I can recover and data very quickly, but it sounds like Adams is Rain Main level.

    I don't think Adams draws up gameplans, though. I think he contributes input that helps the gameplans come together.

    In general, agreed. Adams is a secret weapon.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes this is true. Probably just gives BB another eye and perspective. Whats crazy if true is that Ernie supposedly came up the with the idea of us beating up the Rams WR's at the 11th hour and the plan still worked to perfection. Without us making it a physical game and trying to beat the snot out of them, we get blown away easily. Also the stubborness of Mike Martz helped because if they leaned on M.Faulk, they also win easily. We had a pedestrian offense compared to theirs.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    OVER???

    When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli became vice president of player personnel... though Belichick had the final say.

    Yeah Pioli was a genius, Kansas City under his expertise went 4-12, 10-6 by adding Charlie Weis/Romeo Crennel to the staff (thanks Bill),  7-9  and 2-14 before he was finally fired, he now works in TV.  His personnel highlights include adding Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn at QB.

    Bill Belichick drafted Tom Brady.  Period.

    Trying to make a point by cherry picking certain players to take away from his resume as GM makes the person doing so look biased if not outright stupid. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     

     

     




    OVER???

     

     

     

     

    New England Patriots

     

    Pioli during 2007Patriots training camp

     

    When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli became vice president of player personnel. The two eventually became the first personnel director/head coach tandem in league annals to win three Super Bowls during a four-year span (2001–2004).[2] He and Belichick split the duties usually held by a general manager on most other NFL teams, though Belichick had the final say.[4]

     

    Pioli’s skills as a talent evaluator helped create a consistent championship contender in New England.[2] He was regularly recognized for his ability to build a team, not simply collecting individual talent,[2] helping to make the Patriots a "model franchise."[2] From 2000–2008, the Patriots had an NFL-best record of 102-42 (.708) and registered 14 playoff victories.[2] Pioli worked in close coordination with Belichick, bringing players to the Patriots who fit into the framework of the club’s team concept.[2] Pioli and Belichick's teams were noted for the depth of talent at all the positions[2] and used an effective combination of draft picks, free-agent signings, and trades to continually upgrade their roster.[2] The most-notable selection in an NFL Draft by Pioli and Belichick was quarterback Tom Brady, who was chosen 199th overall in the 2000 NFL Draft.[2]

     

    In his tenure with the Patriots, Pioli earned promotions from Assistant Director of Player Personnel to Director of Player Personnel in 2001, and to Vice President of Player Personnel in 2002. Also, Pioli earned a contract extension in 2005 after being pursued by several NFL teams to become general manager.

    In 2007, the Patriots finished their regular season with a 16-0 record, a first in NFL history. The team advanced to Super Bowl XLII but lost to the New York Giants 17-14 and failed to finish the season with a perfect 19-0 record. Prior to the season, Pioli executed trades to acquire wide receivers Wes Welker and Randy Moss, both of whom helped the Patriots set multiple NFL records on offense.[2

     

     

     



    BB is the GM of the NE Patriots and has been since 2000. Do you think he left the loser jets at the podium by mistake?

     

     

     

    You are a joke pretending director of pro player personnel somehow is choosing players on draft day or overruling BB on personnel decisions.

    Pioli said it himself recently.  It was always Bill's show. An administrator like Pioli in that role here is not the GM, moron.

    Look at you doing anything to disparage BB's incredible accomplishments as GM. The best ever, hands down.

     

     

     



    Yes, Queenie Handbanger, while the rest of the NFL's teams work by committee, BB does it all himself.  He evaluates talent, designs the contracts, manages the cap, designs the game plans, coaches the players, breaks down the film etc.  It's all BB, well except for the things that don't work out, that's someone else.

     

     

     



    I didn't say that.  But, the administrator is not the GM.  That's what I said. I am very well in tune with the infrastructure here. VERY well in tune.

     

    TFB12, Pezzy, Babe, etc, have not read one book or article on any of it.  They're ignorant and uneducated yet come off as if they know everything.

    Caserio does Pioli's role now. That would mean moron Pezzy, based on his premise, thinks Caserio tells BB what to do. bawahahaha

    abwahhhhaahaa




    THE DPP is the defacto gm and given credit as the GM.  He is the next step down from GM and where teams don't have a TRUE gm, he is the guy,  Not the coach.

    When Pioli was given the award for "best GM", why didn't they give it to BB?

    Could it be said that Pioli was the GM and BB the coach?  Yup, That's what it be.

    Casario doesn't have the nuggets to stand up to BB and say, "  I know you like Tavon Wilson  and RAS I, but lets wait on em".

    That is a problem.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    Yes, of course real fans know about their friendship, Johnny COme Lately/TFB12.  See, if you weren't a bandwagon fan or had read one of the Pats books available out there, you'd know this.

    Jim Brown called BB the most charitable player or coach to ever come through Cleveland. Charitable in terms of his time in speaking and supporting certain charitable events.

     



    Now, wait a minute.  When I signed my Patriots Fan membership card noone told me that there was going to be mandatory reading!  In all seriousness, I didn't know those facts about BB.  It's really very interesting and shows that there is a lot more to him than what the media is inclined to say.  Good for him.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to Section136's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment: 

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach I have ever watched in the NFL.  The man is just plain fascinating to watch work.  He was the reason I became a Pats fan.  You go back and look at the team of coaches he surrounded himself with in Cleveland, some very recognizable names there.  Had the Browns never left and moved to Baltimore that Browns team would have won a couple of Super Bowls with Bill Belichick.  And it's possible he may have never joined the Patriots.  How crazy is that.  If you watched the NFL network 2 part show about Belichick you would probably agree that it was some of the best tv ever.  To get a little look of BB behind the scenes is amazing tv.

    However, as much as I like BB, I have no problem being objective and admitting he has some faults. 

    He is horrible in most interviews.  He really could be better with the media.  This really hurts how the team is perceived by others.  One of the reasons the team is so disliked by fans and some players around the league.

    I think he controls too much.  I think being the head coach and the GM is a conflict of interest and is the reason why BB is not the great GM some like to think he is.  I think overall the team suffers because they do not have a good GM who isn't also the coach.

    It's great fun having a team and players you like and cheer for but it takes the experience to a whole higher level when you have an amazing coach that you find fascinating and look forward to watching coach on Sunday just as much as you enjoy watching the players play.  That is what you get with Bill Belicheck as your teams head coach. 

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     



    Since coming to this board and reading all the criticism of BB's drafting I've done some research on the drafting success of the 32 NFL teams since 2000. The Patriots are always in the top ten as far as drafting successful players. Don't take my word for it do the work yourself but those are the results. 

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

    So - stop b!tching and enjoy the ride! My God, what do you people expect? How about being a Brown's fan?

    As far as the original post goes - it doesn't suprise me that this info is not common knowledge - that's Belichick....like it or leave it!!

     

    UNQUOTE

     

    I'm afraid that unvarnished, truly objective observations such as these are lost on those who choose to believe what they choose to believe.  

    And I'm really tired of reading about Pioli.  He did exactly what in KC?  

     



    Im not Pioli fan but the only glaring weakness I see is the fact he signed Cassel ( I think) which was a no brainer considering his previous year and knowledge of the system. I dont know all of which players he drafted and which ones were there but how can you say what did he do? The team looks to be contender this year when just 2 years ago they were a laughing stock and caused Romeo his job. Thats not worth anything? McCluster, Eric Berry

    The success they are having now is because of Reid and A.Smith but a lot of those defenders were drafted by him

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...




    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BelichickDisciple. Show BelichickDisciple's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Also the stubborness of Mike Martz helped because if they leaned on M.Faulk, they also win easily. We had a pedestrian offense compared to theirs.



    + 1!  Martz's ego would not let him win the game IMO. He was the "offensive genius", the man behind the "greatest show on turf". They came back successfully in the 3rd and fourth quarters by running the ball with Faulk - if they had stayed with it, they would have won the game - but he couldn't help himself, couldn't believe that the Rams passing game wasn't working so he went back to the precision timing pass game that the Pats were stopping and lost the game. 

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    That was not the critical decision. The critical decisions were coaching ones...

    1) Letting TB continue to play even when Bledsoe got healthy

    2) Letting TB start the SB, even after Bledsoe played well in the AFCCG.

    There were two GM decisions that allowed all those good things to happen.

    1) BB drafting TB. That was luck. There was no hard decision there.

    2) Keeping TB, despite having three other QBs in front of him. This, I give BB credit for. That's a harder decision than people think.

    Without the drafting of Richard Seymour the Patriots don't win anything.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Just watching Inside the NFL on Showtime and Jim Brown was the guest.  Sounds like him and BB has some very good history together off the field.  Brown was asked top 3 people in his life he respects and Jim Brown said top 3 heros and friends in his life are Bobby Knight, Bill Belichick and Bill Russell.  Very interesting!

    Did anyone know about this friendship between Jim Brown and Bill Belichick?

    After a little research I found this..

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025537/3/index.htm

    SI: What current athlete do you admire?

    Brown: Compared with a Bill Russell?

    SI: Sure.

    Brown: Nobody.

    SI: Compared with a Jim Brown.

    Brown: I don't compare myself with anyone. Let me tell you about someone I do admire. Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots has contributed more to the work I surround myself with than any black athlete in modern times—financially, intellectually, every way. He's been in the prisons with me. He's met gang members in my home; he's met gang members in Cleveland [where Belichick coached the Browns from 1991 to '95]. He's put up money. He's opened up areas of education for us very quietly and very strongly. Imagine what would happen if Michael Jordan did the same thing.

    Fascinating!!

     



    I thought a BB fan such as yourself would have known that already. He is very active with young players and mentorship. Ive always liked that about him. BB is truly NOT the person he is portrayed tio be. As far as Jordan goes. I was told if you dont have anything good to say...

     

    THIS is why I seperate the two(player, person) in terms of being a fan. I didnt like Jordan early on. I was a D.Wilkins fan. MY brother loved MJ. Over the years I had no choice to respect his game. He is far and away the most amazing player Ive watched, but as a person, I never hear good things about him. I am not gonna judge him but he really doesnt do much seeing as much money he makes from inner city kids staying up all night outside of malls to buy 150 dollar pair of shoes. Just enjoy athletes for what they do in their proffesion because a lot are jerks off the court/field,etc.

    I remember going to work  w/my mom when she worked for smithkline/beecham. Back in the day, all the Celtics used to go there to get their blood drawn. I had a few not so nice encounters from players I looked up too. I wont say any names.

     



    No, say names. That's what makes it interesting. Ken Griffey is a douschenozzle, for example.

     

     



    Ok, since you forced me. It was Larry Legend and Kevin Mchale. I love them as players. Maybe it was a bad day for them, but they totally ruined my perception of athletes off the court/field.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     

     

     




    OVER???

     

     

     

     

    New England Patriots

     

    Pioli during 2007Patriots training camp

     

    When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli became vice president of player personnel. The two eventually became the first personnel director/head coach tandem in league annals to win three Super Bowls during a four-year span (2001–2004).[2] He and Belichick split the duties usually held by a general manager on most other NFL teams, though Belichick had the final say.[4]

     

    Pioli’s skills as a talent evaluator helped create a consistent championship contender in New England.[2] He was regularly recognized for his ability to build a team, not simply collecting individual talent,[2] helping to make the Patriots a "model franchise."[2] From 2000–2008, the Patriots had an NFL-best record of 102-42 (.708) and registered 14 playoff victories.[2] Pioli worked in close coordination with Belichick, bringing players to the Patriots who fit into the framework of the club’s team concept.[2] Pioli and Belichick's teams were noted for the depth of talent at all the positions[2] and used an effective combination of draft picks, free-agent signings, and trades to continually upgrade their roster.[2] The most-notable selection in an NFL Draft by Pioli and Belichick was quarterback Tom Brady, who was chosen 199th overall in the 2000 NFL Draft.[2]

     

    In his tenure with the Patriots, Pioli earned promotions from Assistant Director of Player Personnel to Director of Player Personnel in 2001, and to Vice President of Player Personnel in 2002. Also, Pioli earned a contract extension in 2005 after being pursued by several NFL teams to become general manager.

    In 2007, the Patriots finished their regular season with a 16-0 record, a first in NFL history. The team advanced to Super Bowl XLII but lost to the New York Giants 17-14 and failed to finish the season with a perfect 19-0 record. Prior to the season, Pioli executed trades to acquire wide receivers Wes Welker and Randy Moss, both of whom helped the Patriots set multiple NFL records on offense.[2

     

     

     



    BB is the GM of the NE Patriots and has been since 2000. Do you think he left the loser jets at the podium by mistake?

     

     

     

    You are a joke pretending director of pro player personnel somehow is choosing players on draft day or overruling BB on personnel decisions.

    Pioli said it himself recently.  It was always Bill's show. An administrator like Pioli in that role here is not the GM, moron.

    Look at you doing anything to disparage BB's incredible accomplishments as GM. The best ever, hands down.

     

     

     




    So, the directer of "player personnel"  has nothing to do with picking players?

     

     

    YOU are the joke.

    I suppose Wikki is biased against BB too?

    The checks and balances are not in place. This needs improvement.  Period!

     

     



    Did I say NOTHING to do?  No, I didn't.  Pioli was the adminstrator and liaison between BB and the scouts.  Simple.

     

    Learn the infrastructure. You're a moron if you think Pioli sat there and over-ruled BB on things in front of everyone else in the room. Pioli's opinion counts, as do others like lead scouts (Dimitrioff), but they weren't making choices or dictating.  

    Man, you expose yourself to be dumb within your anti-BB based trollwork.




    Ahhh, Explain why BB the GM has NEVER won GM of the year and Pioli has, twice with the Pats, I believe, and once with the Chiefs.

    It's really simple.  Pioli was the GM and BB is the coach. 

    There needs to be checks and balances in every organization.  Gm's and coaches generally work together for the same goal, but without those checks and balances, you have one person making all the decisions. 

    No GM makes every decision.  Neither should any coach.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...


    "Rehbein, a spiritual man, had thanked God many times for his good health, and his good fortune.

    He accepted a job with the Patriots in February 2000, after eight years with the New York Giants, and was brimming with optimism after he met with Bledsoe, describing the quarterback to his wife as ''a phenomenal athlete, and even better person.''

    But Rehbein had his eye on another quarterback, too. He was one who stumped noisily for New England to select Tom Brady with a sixth-round pick in the 2000 draft. He met with the kid and promised to help him become an NFL starter some day.

    ''He came home one night and said to me, `Pam, this kid Tom Brady is terrific,''' Pam Rehbein said. ''He told me, `He's going to be a household name some day, just like Bledsoe or Montana.''' (BDC)

     

    Thankfully, BB listened.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to RushThePillPopper's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    However, as much as I like BB, I have no problem being objective and admitting he has some faults. 

    He is horrible in most interviews.  He really could be better with the media.  This really hurts how the team is perceived by others.  One of the reasons the team is so disliked by fans and some players around the league.

    I think he controls too much.  I think being the head coach and the GM is a conflict of interest and is the reason why BB is not the great GM some like to think he is.  I think overall the team suffers because they do not have a good GM who isn't also the coach.

    It's great fun having a team and players you like and cheer for but it takes the experience to a whole higher level when you have an amazing coach that you find fascinating and look forward to watching coach on Sunday just as much as you enjoy watching the players play.  That is what you get with Bill Belicheck as your teams head coach.

     

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     



    I took out the parts where you praise BB. The rest....here is you know who's reply...."TROLL. What are you some dumb millenial that works flipping burgers? Go get a degree from a college. That is if you've even been to high school. BB is god and I pleasure myself to him every nite"

     




    Another of the endless Rusty fakes.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Just watching Inside the NFL on Showtime and Jim Brown was the guest.  Sounds like him and BB has some very good history together off the field.  Brown was asked top 3 people in his life he respects and Jim Brown said top 3 heros and friends in his life are Bobby Knight, Bill Belichick and Bill Russell.  Very interesting!

    Did anyone know about this friendship between Jim Brown and Bill Belichick?

    After a little research I found this..

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1025537/3/index.htm

    SI: What current athlete do you admire?

    Brown: Compared with a Bill Russell?

    SI: Sure.

    Brown: Nobody.

    SI: Compared with a Jim Brown.

    Brown: I don't compare myself with anyone. Let me tell you about someone I do admire. Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots has contributed more to the work I surround myself with than any black athlete in modern times—financially, intellectually, every way. He's been in the prisons with me. He's met gang members in my home; he's met gang members in Cleveland [where Belichick coached the Browns from 1991 to '95]. He's put up money. He's opened up areas of education for us very quietly and very strongly. Imagine what would happen if Michael Jordan did the same thing.

    Fascinating!!

     



    I thought a BB fan such as yourself would have known that already. He is very active with young players and mentorship. Ive always liked that about him. BB is truly NOT the person he is portrayed tio be. As far as Jordan goes. I was told if you dont have anything good to say...

     

    THIS is why I seperate the two(player, person) in terms of being a fan. I didnt like Jordan early on. I was a D.Wilkins fan. MY brother loved MJ. Over the years I had no choice to respect his game. He is far and away the most amazing player Ive watched, but as a person, I never hear good things about him. I am not gonna judge him but he really doesnt do much seeing as much money he makes from inner city kids staying up all night outside of malls to buy 150 dollar pair of shoes. Just enjoy athletes for what they do in their proffesion because a lot are jerks off the court/field,etc.

    I remember going to work  w/my mom when she worked for smithkline/beecham. Back in the day, all the Celtics used to go there to get their blood drawn. I had a few not so nice encounters from players I looked up too. I wont say any names.

     



    No, say names. That's what makes it interesting. Ken Griffey is a douschenozzle, for example.

     

     

     

     



    Ok, since you forced me. It was Larry Legend and Kevin Mchale. I love them as players. Maybe it was a bad day for them, but they totally ruined my perception of athletes off the court/field.

     

     



    WHat happened? I always liked the story of Mellencamp getting them and the Chief stoned to the bejesus once.

     

     



    No biggie. Just didnt speak or acknowledge me in the elevator when I tried to meet them, but My mom did say they are usually grumpy when they have these early appts to get their blood drawn. I have given them the benefit of the doubt only because I dont know what it is to be in the spotlight and always have people coming up to you. Larry was an all time great but he was a different cat. He used to call out teams before the game. He was cocky and a bit arrogant but thats what made him. now a days, a player sais something on twitter and has to apologize. Larry didnt hold anything back. I loved that about  80s BBall
    . Players were allowed to be themselves and talk smack

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Section136's comment:

     

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

     



    I looked it up. This team is .500 with BB and no Brady.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     

     




    I have no problem with you taking issue with BB's abilities as a GM, though I don't agree with you.  What I do take issue with, is how you expect people to accept your critical views of him, but you don't show the same courtesy to anyone who is critical of TB.  At the very least, it makes you appear to be hypocritical.

     

     

     



    Of course it does. I have been pointing out that fact for years. The irony is, one element is more tangible than the other:

     

    BB drafting and coaching other humans is partly on the player asscedning here. It's not ALL on BB.

     



    Your insanity is showing. Are you trying to say it's the players fault BB picked him? LMAO@U

     

    And tell cyncalpatfan he's on ignore so I don't read what he has to say.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     


    No, say names. That's what makes it interesting. Ken Griffey is a douschenozzle, for example.

     

     


    ^ Says King Douschenozzel of the Universe.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to Section136's comment:

     

     

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

     

     



    I looked it up. This team is .500 with BB and no Brady.

     




    Not what I said - stop cherry picking!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    I am very well in tune with the infrastructure here. VERY well in tune.

     



    Unlike yourself, those of us who really know what the hell we're talking about don't have to inform the world that we do. It's obvious. But for you on the other hand; it isn't.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

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    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry, but which GM drafted Tom Brady when he probably would have gone undrafted?

    Yeah, conversation over...

     

     

     

     

     

     




    OVER???

     

     

     

     

     

     

    New England Patriots

     

    Pioli during 2007Patriots training camp

     

    When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli became vice president of player personnel. The two eventually became the first personnel director/head coach tandem in league annals to win three Super Bowls during a four-year span (2001–2004).[2] He and Belichick split the duties usually held by a general manager on most other NFL teams, though Belichick had the final say.[4]

     

    Pioli’s skills as a talent evaluator helped create a consistent championship contender in New England.[2] He was regularly recognized for his ability to build a team, not simply collecting individual talent,[2] helping to make the Patriots a "model franchise."[2] From 2000–2008, the Patriots had an NFL-best record of 102-42 (.708) and registered 14 playoff victories.[2] Pioli worked in close coordination with Belichick, bringing players to the Patriots who fit into the framework of the club’s team concept.[2] Pioli and Belichick's teams were noted for the depth of talent at all the positions[2] and used an effective combination of draft picks, free-agent signings, and trades to continually upgrade their roster.[2] The most-notable selection in an NFL Draft by Pioli and Belichick was quarterback Tom Brady, who was chosen 199th overall in the 2000 NFL Draft.[2]

     

    In his tenure with the Patriots, Pioli earned promotions from Assistant Director of Player Personnel to Director of Player Personnel in 2001, and to Vice President of Player Personnel in 2002. Also, Pioli earned a contract extension in 2005 after being pursued by several NFL teams to become general manager.

    In 2007, the Patriots finished their regular season with a 16-0 record, a first in NFL history. The team advanced to Super Bowl XLII but lost to the New York Giants 17-14 and failed to finish the season with a perfect 19-0 record. Prior to the season, Pioli executed trades to acquire wide receivers Wes Welker and Randy Moss, both of whom helped the Patriots set multiple NFL records on offense.[2

     

     

     

     

     



    BB is the GM of the NE Patriots and has been since 2000. Do you think he left the loser jets at the podium by mistake?

     

     

     

     

     

    You are a joke pretending director of pro player personnel somehow is choosing players on draft day or overruling BB on personnel decisions.

    Pioli said it himself recently.  It was always Bill's show. An administrator like Pioli in that role here is not the GM, moron.

    Look at you doing anything to disparage BB's incredible accomplishments as GM. The best ever, hands down.

     

     

     

     

     




    So, the directer of "player personnel"  has nothing to do with picking players?

     

     

     

     

    YOU are the joke.

    I suppose Wikki is biased against BB too?

    The checks and balances are not in place. This needs improvement.  Period!

     

     

     

     



    Did I say NOTHING to do?  No, I didn't.  Pioli was the adminstrator and liaison between BB and the scouts.  Simple.

     

     

     

    Learn the infrastructure. You're a moron if you think Pioli sat there and over-ruled BB on things in front of everyone else in the room. Pioli's opinion counts, as do others like lead scouts (Dimitrioff), but they weren't making choices or dictating.  

    Man, you expose yourself to be dumb within your anti-BB based trollwork.

     

     




    Ahhh, Explain why BB the GM has NEVER won GM of the year and Pioli has, twice with the Pats, I believe, and once with the Chiefs.

     

     

    It's really simple.  Pioli was the GM and BB is the coach. 

    There needs to be checks and balances in every organization.  Gm's and coaches generally work together for the same goal, but without those checks and balances, you have one person making all the decisions. 

    No GM makes every decision.  Neither should any coach.

     



    I think it's better for YOU to explain why you're on here daily blaming BB the GM for every little stupid thing if currently Caserio is actually this team's GM?

     

    Care to explain that?

    bawhhhahaa

    Caught again.  Leave it to you to pretend a Dir of Player Personnel outranks the GM.

     

    New England Patriots (2000–present) [edit]

    Soon after hiring Belichick, owner Robert Kraft gave him near-complete control over the team's football operations, effectively making him the team's general manager as well. He is one of four current NFL coaches with the title or powers of general manager, the others being the Philadelphia Eagles' Chip KellySeattle SeahawksPete Carroll and Washington RedskinsMike Shanahanand Kansas City Chiefs Andy Reid. Until 2009, Belichick split many of the duties normally held by a general manager on other clubs with player personnel director Scott Pioli, though Belichick had the final say on football matters.[11] Pioli left for the Kansas City Chiefs after the 2009 season.




    Learm how to read.  I said the DPP is the GM when there is no listed GM.  I never said anything about one out ranking the other.

    Does the term personnel mean anything to you? 

    Yes, the personell guy is next in line to the Gm in making personell decisions.

    Therefore he is essentially given the title of GM.  BB has more responsibility and more say than most coaches but he is the coach, not the GM.

    The Ravens, Steelers, Giants, Saints, all have seperate GM/COACH combinations.

    They have actually won SB's in the past 7 years.

    Maybe there is an advantage in having both and not a lot of yes, men.

    BB has never won "GM of the year"

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    And yet another thread that started out good.....ruined. Shocker....

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to Section136's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment: 

    Bill Belichick is the greatest coach I have ever watched in the NFL.  The man is just plain fascinating to watch work.  He was the reason I became a Pats fan.  You go back and look at the team of coaches he surrounded himself with in Cleveland, some very recognizable names there.  Had the Browns never left and moved to Baltimore that Browns team would have won a couple of Super Bowls with Bill Belichick.  And it's possible he may have never joined the Patriots.  How crazy is that.  If you watched the NFL network 2 part show about Belichick you would probably agree that it was some of the best tv ever.  To get a little look of BB behind the scenes is amazing tv.

    However, as much as I like BB, I have no problem being objective and admitting he has some faults. 

    He is horrible in most interviews.  He really could be better with the media.  This really hurts how the team is perceived by others.  One of the reasons the team is so disliked by fans and some players around the league.

    I think he controls too much.  I think being the head coach and the GM is a conflict of interest and is the reason why BB is not the great GM some like to think he is.  I think overall the team suffers because they do not have a good GM who isn't also the coach.

    It's great fun having a team and players you like and cheer for but it takes the experience to a whole higher level when you have an amazing coach that you find fascinating and look forward to watching coach on Sunday just as much as you enjoy watching the players play.  That is what you get with Bill Belicheck as your teams head coach. 

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     



    Since coming to this board and reading all the criticism of BB's drafting I've done some research on the drafting success of the 32 NFL teams since 2000. The Patriots are always in the top ten as far as drafting successful players. Don't take my word for it do the work yourself but those are the results. 

    Also, this TEAM (not Brady - the team)  has won 100 games more than it has lost under this staff. Again, don't take my word - look it up.

    So - stop b!tching and enjoy the ride! My God, what do you people expect? How about being a Brown's fan?

    As far as the original post goes - it doesn't suprise me that this info is not common knowledge - that's Belichick....like it or leave it!!

     

    UNQUOTE

     

    I'm afraid that unvarnished, truly objective observations such as these are lost on those who choose to believe what they choose to believe.  

     



    There was a motherload of varnish on that; pure homer cherry picked BS, not objectivity.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    And yet another thread that started out good.....ruined. Shocker....

     




    Yup

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick and Jim Brown

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:

     

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

     

     

    I do find it hilarious that some claim one hates BB because they simply call out his flaws; no matter how much they sing praise to his strengths.

     

     

     

     




    I have no problem with you taking issue with BB's abilities as a GM, though I don't agree with you.  What I do take issue with, is how you expect people to accept your critical views of him, but you don't show the same courtesy to anyone who is critical of TB.  At the very least, it makes you appear to be hypocritical.

     

     

     

     



    Of course it does. I have been pointing out that fact for years. The irony is, one element is more tangible than the other:

     

     

    BB drafting and coaching other humans is partly on the player asscedning here. It's not ALL on BB.

     



    Your insanity is showing. Are you trying to say it's the players fault BB picked him? LMAO@U

     

     

    And tell cyncalpatfan he's on ignore so I don't read what he has to say.

     




    Well, yes I already knew that.  I think it was back in July or August.  You determined that because I had too few posts, somehow that made me "not real".  That's okay, though.  I'll keep posting responses to you with the thought that, some day, you might want to open your eyes and ears to ideas that cause you to consider other perspectives beyond your narrow view.  It might make you a happier and all around more pleasant person to engage in conversation (or it could cause your brain to hemmorage).  And if you don't, well, that's okay too.  I'll just pretend that I'm talking with one of my teenage kids!  At any rate, you let me know once I reach that mystical number of posts that will some day make me a "real" poster.Cool

     

     
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