Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

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    Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return


     


    Bill Belichick was very insightful yesterday while discussing the details of the kick return as it relates to the returner's rules and the like.


    For context, Belichick was asked if it's common to look at the game film and notice occasions when the returner chose to stay in the end zone when he should have taken it out due to some blocking lanes that were set to open.


    "When the kickoff returner is back there catching the ball, I’d say the three things that affect him the most are the depth of the kick, the hang time of the kick and the posture that he’s in when he catches it," Belichick said. "So, no matter how deep you are, if you’re waiting for the ball and going forward and rolling into the catch, it’s a little different than if you’re backing up or going sideways or that type of thing because the momentum at the start of it is a lot different. You hear people refer to a depth in the end zone, but I don’t really think that’s the final story because a ball with no hang time deep in the end zone is a lot more favorable return than a ball that’s not as deep in the end zone with quite a bit of hang time. There’s the combination of that. So, it’s a judgment but all that is going on.


    "Really, the returner doesn’t see the blocking pattern develop until he’s on the 10- or 15-yard line usually. Some of those blocks are set early, but a lot of them don’t take place –- you have your front-line blocks, but the rest of those blocks don’t take place until the coverage team is inside the 30 for sure. So by the time he gets the ball and brings it out, those blocks take place. That’s when the lanes do or don’t line up. It would be pretty hard for him to catch the ball and feel like, ‘Oh my God, I missed a big hole there,’ because it’s just too early to see it."


    Belichick then broke down the qualities of a good returner.


    "Definitely, vision is important," Belichick said. "Speed is important because the faster you can get the ball from the goal line or wherever it comes down up into that 15-, 20-yard line area, then the more you can avoid that outside guy, whoever it is. You can’t really block everybody. Well, you can but once you start double teaming to create running lanes then you run out of blockers and you try to let somebody go -– usually the backside guy, the guy farthest from the ball, that type of thing. So, fast guys can get past them before they’re able to come down and make the play. So, speed and then either some combination of quickness and power to break tackles.


    "Somehow or another returners to be good have to be able to make some yards on their own. They have to be able to avoid them or be strong to run through them, as well as have good vision and find the holes.


    "Kickoff return is a little different than punt returns because you have so many guys coming down at the same time and you have a chance to generally build some momentum, build some speed and create on the run. Whereas a lot of times on punt returns, they’re right there on top of you, you have to make a quick decision. There’s only two guys down there so usually the gunners, unless the ball has a lot of hang time, but there’s usually that first wave of just two guys or however many of them get down there and then you have that second wave.


    "So, the ball handling is quite a bit different, I’d say harder, on punts. Certainly the decision making once you get into plus-50 punting and things like that are a little bit different other than making the come out of the end zone or not come out of the end zone (decision) on kick returns. There aren’t a lot of guys in the league that do both. There certainly are some but there are quite a few guys that do one or the other because the skills really are a little bit different."

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Somehow I dont think Sir Rex could do that


    lol
    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Fumbles on KO's are huge too. You can almost guarantee 3 points. If a team just scored a TD, you can give up 10 points in seconds. Of course you don't want any TO, on Punts or KO's. Slater is notorious at putting the ball on the ground in KO's. He always scares me back there. Cost us a game a couple of years ago, on a fumble on KO.


    Today KO's are almost obsolete, the way the Kickers can put it end zone. And when returned if they make it past the 20, you did good.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Sounds like Finch is a good returner in the mold of: he seems to have the ability to create his own holes, is very fast, and has good vision for a small guy. He doesn't have great power to break tackles but he seems to meet 3 of the biggest things BB looks for.

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sounds like Finch is a good returner in the mold of: he seems to have the ability to create his own holes, is very fast, and has good vision for a small guy. He doesn't have great power to break tackles but he seems to meet 3 of the biggest things BB looks for.

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

    [/QUOTE]

    Seems to me most run backs for tds , the returner, is not, or is barely touched


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sounds like Finch is a good returner in the mold of: he seems to have the ability to create his own holes, is very fast, and has good vision for a small guy. He doesn't have great power to break tackles but he seems to meet 3 of the biggest things BB looks for.

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

    [/QUOTE]

    Seems to me most run backs for tds , the returner, is not, or is barely touched


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Yet and that's usually due to good vision to see the holes open up and the quickness to get through the holes before they collapse and not get caught from behind

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fumbles on KO's are huge too. You can almost guarantee 3 points. If a team just scored a TD, you can give up 10 points in seconds. Of course you don't want any TO, on Punts or KO's. Slater is notorious at putting the ball on the ground in KO's. He always scares me back there. Cost us a game a couple of years ago, on a fumble on KO.

     

    Today KO's are almost obsolete, the way the Kickers can put it end zone. And when returned if they make it past the 20, you did good.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes thats true, fumbles are a huge problem on KR's. I think thats why BB doesn't have him returning much anymore (only 4 total over the last 2 years). Slater is a very good lead blocker for the returner to follow though.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sounds like Finch is a good returner in the mold of: he seems to have the ability to create his own holes, is very fast, and has good vision for a small guy. He doesn't have great power to break tackles but he seems to meet 3 of the biggest things BB looks for.

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with your entire post. As for his vision, thats a big plus he seems to have and he's not the easiest guy to keep your eyes on when you're running down the field because of his smaller size and quickness.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    So how come BB hasn't had a decent kick returner since Ellis Hobbs 5 years ago?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So how come BB hasn't had a decent kick returner since Ellis Hobbs 5 years ago?

    [/QUOTE]

    maybe BB is wrong on what makes a good KR? (Rusty gasps!)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

     

     

     

    Bill Belichick was very insightful yesterday while discussing the details of the kick return as it relates to the returner's rules and the like.

     

    For context, Belichick was asked if it's common to look at the game film and notice occasions when the returner chose to stay in the end zone when he should have taken it out due to some blocking lanes that were set to open.

     

    "When the kickoff returner is back there catching the ball, I’d say the three things that affect him the most are the depth of the kick, the hang time of the kick and the posture that he’s in when he catches it," Belichick said. "So, no matter how deep you are, if you’re waiting for the ball and going forward and rolling into the catch, it’s a little different than if you’re backing up or going sideways or that type of thing because the momentum at the start of it is a lot different. You hear people refer to a depth in the end zone, but I don’t really think that’s the final story because a ball with no hang time deep in the end zone is a lot more favorable return than a ball that’s not as deep in the end zone with quite a bit of hang time. There’s the combination of that. So, it’s a judgment but all that is going on.

     

    "Really, the returner doesn’t see the blocking pattern develop until he’s on the 10- or 15-yard line usually. Some of those blocks are set early, but a lot of them don’t take place –- you have your front-line blocks, but the rest of those blocks don’t take place until the coverage team is inside the 30 for sure. So by the time he gets the ball and brings it out, those blocks take place. That’s when the lanes do or don’t line up. It would be pretty hard for him to catch the ball and feel like, ‘Oh my God, I missed a big hole there,’ because it’s just too early to see it."

     

    Belichick then broke down the qualities of a good returner.

     

    "Definitely, vision is important," Belichick said. "Speed is important because the faster you can get the ball from the goal line or wherever it comes down up into that 15-, 20-yard line area, then the more you can avoid that outside guy, whoever it is. You can’t really block everybody. Well, you can but once you start double teaming to create running lanes then you run out of blockers and you try to let somebody go -– usually the backside guy, the guy farthest from the ball, that type of thing. So, fast guys can get past them before they’re able to come down and make the play. So, speed and then either some combination of quickness and power to break tackles.

     

    "Somehow or another returners to be good have to be able to make some yards on their own. They have to be able to avoid them or be strong to run through them, as well as have good vision and find the holes.

     

    "Kickoff return is a little different than punt returns because you have so many guys coming down at the same time and you have a chance to generally build some momentum, build some speed and create on the run. Whereas a lot of times on punt returns, they’re right there on top of you, you have to make a quick decision. There’s only two guys down there so usually the gunners, unless the ball has a lot of hang time, but there’s usually that first wave of just two guys or however many of them get down there and then you have that second wave.

     

    "So, the ball handling is quite a bit different, I’d say harder, on punts. Certainly the decision making once you get into plus-50 punting and things like that are a little bit different other than making the come out of the end zone or not come out of the end zone (decision) on kick returns. There aren’t a lot of guys in the league that do both. There certainly are some but there are quite a few guys that do one or the other because the skills really are a little bit different."

    [/QUOTE]


    {Yawn}

    Wow, that was long winded but for someone who knows so much about the intricacies of returning kicks we sure have s*cked at for a while now. Its hard to tell what goes wrong when a returner does not have success. How much of it is coaching? It seems our S/t coach always has the same dumfounded look on his face. I understand they try to teach force, leverage, contain and all that but I Imagine once the ball is kicked and you are running full speed trying to avoid blocks while also trying to keep an eye on the ball carrier, some of those techniques get lost in translation. My theory is this. You need a kick returner like Hester who is fast but also elusive and can stop on a dime as not many times do you see everyone making their blocks.

    I think teams that average high returns....thats more to do with the returner than any coaching. In terms of covering? Well you need 11 crazy guys on the field that are willing to risk their lives for a few plays out of the game but since they dont start they are happy to do so but its organized confusion at best.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

    [/QUOTE]

    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    [/QUOTE]



    {Yawn}

    Wow, that was long winded but for someone who knows so much about the intricacies of returning kicks we sure have s*cked at for a while now. Its hard to tell what goes wrong when a returner does not have success. How much of it is coaching? It seems our S/t coach always has the same dumfounded look on his face. I understand they try to teach force, leverage, contain and all that but I Imagine once the ball is kicked and you are running full speed trying to avoid blocks while also trying to keep an eye on the ball carrier, some of those techniques get lost in translation. My theory is this. You need a kick returner like Hester who is fast but also elusive and can stop on a dime as not many times do you see everyone making their blocks.

    I think teams that average high returns....thats more to do with the returner than any coaching. In terms of covering? Well you need 11 crazy guys on the field that are willing to risk their lives for a few plays out of the game but since they dont start they are happy to do so but its organized confusion at best.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh ok cool. Just tell BB to go and find the Devin Hester tree and pick one off.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

    [/QUOTE]

    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's

    [/QUOTE]

    Could you elaborate what year or years and if you're going by yards or ypr avg. He asked why we haven't had a good returner since Hobbs and while it hasn't been great, we have had a decent returner 3 out of the 5 years

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

    [/QUOTE]

    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you talking about last year or a previous year because the stats have them at 12th in average and 16th in total yards.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

    [/QUOTE]

    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's

    [/QUOTE]

    Could you elaborate what year or years and if you're going by yards or ypr avg. He asked why we haven't had a good returner since Hobbs and while it hasn't been great, we have had a decent returner 3 out of the 5 years

    [/QUOTE]

    2013. total yards

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to rkarp's comment:


    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.


    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.




    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's


    [/QUOTE]

    Could you elaborate what year or years and if you're going by yards or ypr avg. He asked why we haven't had a good returner since Hobbs and while it hasn't been great, we have had a decent returner 3 out of the 5 years


    [/QUOTE]

    2013. total yards


    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry I'm seeing 16th for that stat. I could be wrong.


    Also I prefer KR avg. instead of kick return yards because it doesn't tell the story how effective a team is. If a team lets up a lot of points per game, then they'll have more kick returns through the season, therefore giving them more total yards despite their average may not be that good.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cousteau. Show cousteau's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So how come BB hasn't had a decent kick returner since Ellis Hobbs 5 years ago?

    [/QUOTE]

    maybe BB is wrong on what makes a good KR? (Rusty gasps!)

    [/QUOTE]

    but didn't you know that BB wrote the book on everything about the game? He invented it, and came up with all the different roles and rules. he is personally responsible for the sport and will forever be deified as the father of it

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.

    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.

    [/QUOTE]

    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's

    [/QUOTE]

    Could you elaborate what year or years and if you're going by yards or ypr avg. He asked why we haven't had a good returner since Hobbs and while it hasn't been great, we have had a decent returner 3 out of the 5 years

    [/QUOTE]

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense" rel="nofollow">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense - sort on column headings

     

    Average yards per KO return 

    2013    27th

    2012    30th   

    2011    27th

    2010    16th

    2009      5th   

     

    So, no, it hasn't been a strength of the team for at least 3 years running. And, yes, a Hester would certainly help.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    Maybe its due to all the touchbacks but I measure a good return team by seeing how many long ones are broken. If you are only getting it to the 20-25 yard line, I would rather take a knee, avoid injury and turnover.


    A good return team should atleast break one to the house, esp. a team like the Pats that score a lot, more oppty's. I would like to see 2 broken and a few go past the 50 and try to consistently reach atleast the 25-30 yard line or you may as well take a knee. I think BB knowing he has a potent offense doesnt always put stock into returners. Case in point. Leon last year was held out as inactive almost the whole year with a phantom injury but he was probably healthy and every week BB couldnt find anyone to remove from active roster to get him on the field. Once he left here, he was returning kicks with his new team and was good. Like someone mentioned, gunners and coverage guys are more important and I cant really argue. K.Davis was drafted just to be a special teamer, Ditto for Slater and Ebner so not sure why people keep waiting for Ebs to break the lineup. He can make the team as a specialist if need be.

     
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    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Maybe its due to all the touchbacks but I measure a good return team by seeing how long ones are broken. If you are only getting it to the 20-25 yard line, I would rather take a knee, avoid injury and turnover.

    A good return team should atleast break one to the house, esp. a team like the Pats that score a lot, more oppty's. I would like to see 2 broken and a few go past the 50 and try to consistently reach atleast the 25-30 yard line or you may as well take a knee. I think BB knowing he has a potent offense doesnt always put stock into returners. Case in point. Leon last year was held out as inactive almost the whole year with a phantom injury but he was probably healthy and every week BB couldnt find anyone to remove from active roster to get him on the field. Once he left here, he was returning kicks with his new team and was good. Like someone mentioned, gunners and coverage guys are more important and I cant really argue. K.Davis was drafted just to be a special teamer, Ditto for Slater and Ebner so not sure why people keep waiting for Ebs to break the lineup. He can make the team as a specialist if need be.

    [/QUOTE]

    re Ebner. Personally, I am seeing a lot of players that are just as good on ST as Ebner, and can get on the field for the defense. Ebner IMO shouldn't be on the field for defensive snaps

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to sml1210's comment:


    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to Homecheese's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Hobbs was a good returner, no doubt but if you look at the patriots primary KR's over the years, he doesn't blow anyone away.


    Blount had a better YPR avg last year (2013) then Hobbs ever had. McCourty had a 24 YPR avg in 2012. Tate did well in 2010 with almost 26 YPR. So 2011 and 2009 were the only down years with Woodhead and Maroney doing about 21 and 22 YPR. If you look around the league, you'll see that the Patriots usually have a top 10 to top 15 returner.




    the Pats ranked 26th in the NFL in KR's


    [/QUOTE]

    Could you elaborate what year or years and if you're going by yards or ypr avg. He asked why we haven't had a good returner since Hobbs and while it hasn't been great, we have had a decent returner 3 out of the 5 years


    [/QUOTE]


    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense" rel="nofollow">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense" rel="nofollow">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense" rel="nofollow">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense" rel="nofollow">http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/position/defense - sort on column headings


     


    Average yards per KO return 


    2013    27th


    2012    30th   


    2011    27th


    2010    16th


    2009      5th   


     


    So, no, it hasn't been a strength of the team for at least 3 years running. And, yes, a Hester would certainly help.


    [/QUOTE]

    this looks right. 2009 was  the year Tate was returning kicks. He didnt last long though. I remember when folks were telling me he was gonna be better than H.Nicks....lol

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnlyDaTruth. Show OnlyDaTruth's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:


    Fumbles on KO's are huge too. You can almost guarantee 3 points. If a team just scored a TD, you can give up 10 points in seconds. Of course you don't want any TO, on Punts or KO's. Slater is notorious at putting the ball on the ground in KO's. He always scares me back there. Cost us a game a couple of years ago, on a fumble on KO.


     


    Today KO's are almost obsolete, the way the Kickers can put it end zone. And when returned if they make it past the 20, you did good.




    too true.  Finch had a terrible first pre-season game because of that.  Glad BB has given him extra touches for experience and to see if he could correct his mistakes (and get over first game jitters).

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick breaks down the art of the kick return

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Maybe its due to all the touchbacks but I measure a good return team by seeing how long ones are broken. If you are only getting it to the 20-25 yard line, I would rather take a knee, avoid injury and turnover.

    A good return team should atleast break one to the house, esp. a team like the Pats that score a lot, more oppty's. I would like to see 2 broken and a few go past the 50 and try to consistently reach atleast the 25-30 yard line or you may as well take a knee. I think BB knowing he has a potent offense doesnt always put stock into returners. Case in point. Leon last year was held out as inactive almost the whole year with a phantom injury but he was probably healthy and every week BB couldnt find anyone to remove from active roster to get him on the field. Once he left here, he was returning kicks with his new team and was good. Like someone mentioned, gunners and coverage guys are more important and I cant really argue. K.Davis was drafted just to be a special teamer, Ditto for Slater and Ebner so not sure why people keep waiting for Ebs to break the lineup. He can make the team as a specialist if need be.

    [/QUOTE]

    re Ebner. Personally, I am seeing a lot of players that are just as good on ST as Ebner, and can get on the field for the defense. Ebner IMO shouldn't be on the field for defensive snaps

    [/QUOTE]


    I think we are in agreement there. I have him off my roster due to K.Davis who also isnt considered a starter but is only in his 2nd year and has gotten the most instructions, coaching up. I feel they are moving on from Ebner in favor of Davis. Davis represents a better option at s/t than Ebner and T.Wilson who was invisible on s/t last year despite that being his only role.

     
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