Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    per PFT...

    According to NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline, the Patriots' scouts were "overruled" and the brain trust "made the choice" when New England selected S Duron Harmon with the No. 91 overall pick.

    In other words, Bill Belichick loved Harmon while his scouts didn't. Pauline wrote that "no one I spoke with" thought Harmon would be a top-100 pick before the draft. New England selected him at No. 91 overall. Pauline also reports there was "a lot of disagreement" over the Patriots' second-round selection of OLB Jamie Collins. "Many" Pats scouts graded Collins as a "last-day pick."
     
    Source: TFY Draft Insider
    May 7 - 11:56 AM
     
    **************************
    Geez, I hope this works out well.  Why have scouts if you aren't going to listen to them??? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    The Harmon scenario seems feasible.  I would be surprised if the majority of Patriot scouts thought Collins should go in the 5th to 7th round.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Who on earth is Tony Pauline?    And why would we believe that he would have "inside knowledge" about the Pats draft?

    If any of this is true and given BB's penchant for keeping things in-house those scouts should be looking for new jobs.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Interesting and a little bothersome as well. Selecting guys way before they were meant to be drafted is not good business. I don't like it when Belichick overrules what a scout says because of an interview, etc. These scouts are trained to look at players that best fit our system - they don't just send these guys out there with an ipad and let them do what they want....their opinions are based on how players will fit into our system. When a coach decides to go against their rankings, opinion and time they spend scouting these players it can backfire. These guys are paid to evaluate these players...they spend an enormous amount of time and energy doing it, it must be very frustrating for them to see a coach discount all of that because they had a nice talk with the player and liked what they saw on tape.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Is this evidence that BB's scouts are failing him as some have suspected?

    Or is it evidence that BB calls the shots flat out and every stinker pick he has made for some years now are his and his alone?

    Face it. The guy just isn't a great drafter. Once you do, you will feel better about yourself.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Pats could probably have traded down from 91 into the 4th rd, picked up an extra pick in rd 5 or 6, and taken Harmon there. Multiple other good SS like Rambo were still there in rd 5 and 6 as well. But whats done is done.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    As GM BB has unilateral authority on all personel moves and guess what so do most NFL GMs. Realistically the only person that can overrule Belichick is Kraft. Just like the only person who can overrule Ozzie Newsome is his boss, Steve Bisciotti. When you are HC and GM you have an enormous amount authority and Kraft is not a meddlesome owner who overrules or questions the autonomy he gives his football people (whose knowledge of the game exceeds his own). Part of any business functioning well is to give some autonomy to people who thouroughly know their job. I am sure BB listens to scouts, however, part of the role of GM is to make personel decisions....he has the final say.....much like any boss.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Yep...the team is DOOMED!!

    They have no chance now because BB picked a player his scouts didn't like....oh the travisty!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    Yep...the team is DOOMED!!

     



    Yeah, so tell us something we didn't already know.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Yeah, so tell us something we didn't already know.

     




    You are about as intelligent as a door knob old man....please put me on ignore, I've grown tired of you.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     


    Yeah, so tell us something we didn't already know.

     

     




    You are about as intelligent as a door knob old man....please put me on ignore, I've grown tired of you.

     




    I don't ignore anybody. Especially the idiots.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     



    I dont think it works that way TFB...I think the scouts do their jobs. I think contrary to what Babe says, they probably do it very well, or they would not be working for BB. I believe BB then uses the scouts information as simply one part of the formula for what he is looking for...most likely he uses scouts, college coaches, his own player work outs etc...to formulate who he will draft...I dont think the scouts give BB the player reports, and BB follows their lead...BB takes in all info and then makes HIS decisions

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     



    And here's the thing, if he wanted to pick a tackle, guard, running back, etc, instead of a player the scouts "wanted" him to pick I'm fine with that. It's the reaching...ignoring scouting reports, that I think has hurt some of these drafts. Hey, it's the draft...it's a crap shoot, but don't make the odds worse than they have to be because you like the way the kid talked in an interview and because you're buds with the head coach at the program.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     

    I have no problem with the HC/GM not drafting a player or players recommended by the scouting group they pay. Just because a guy likes player A over player B, doesn't mean player A is a better fit it just means they like player A. BB is not only the GM but he's also the HC which means he may have gotten input from other valued members of his staffs that wanted player B for their respective coaching areas. Like maybe the DB coach liked having all of the Rutgers guys because communication won't be a distraction in the learning process. Or maybe Patricia spoke up because he wanted a certain type of player (s) on his defense and player A didn't fit what he wants!!!! In any case BB has the final say so all we as fans can do is hope we aren't doing the hindset is 20/20 thing.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     

     



    I dont think it works that way TFB...I think the scouts do their jobs. I think contrary to what Babe says, they probably do it very well, or they would not be working for BB. I believe BB then uses the scouts information as simply one part of the formula for what he is looking for...most likely he uses scouts, college coaches, his own player work outs etc...to formulate who he will draft...I dont think the scouts give BB the player reports, and BB follows their lead...BB takes in all info and then makes HIS decisions

     




    I hear ya.  But I guess my point is if BB really likes a player and the scouts don't then we have a problem! Especially if these players the scouts don't like are getting drafted really high.  Something is wrong somewhere.  BB?  Scouts?  This seems to really shed some light on some of the bad drafting over the years.   My favorite coach of all time does have a mean streak of stubbornness that has hurt the team. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     

     



    I dont think it works that way TFB...I think the scouts do their jobs. I think contrary to what Babe says, they probably do it very well, or they would not be working for BB. I believe BB then uses the scouts information as simply one part of the formula for what he is looking for...most likely he uses scouts, college coaches, his own player work outs etc...to formulate who he will draft...I dont think the scouts give BB the player reports, and BB follows their lead...BB takes in all info and then makes HIS decisions

     

     




    I hear ya.  But I guess my point is if BB really likes a player and the scouts don't then we have a problem! Especially if these players the scouts don't like are getting drafted really high.  Something is wrong somewhere.  BB?  Scouts?  This seems to really shed some light on some of the bad drafting over the years.   My favorite coach of all time does have a mean streak of stubbornness that has hurt the team. 

     

     

    I doubt BB was just being obstinant. Do the Patriots employ their own scouts or do they subscribe to the multiple scouting service that recommends players for a group of teams??? It makes a difference because they have other clients to consider when making their suggestions. Have you never heard of disinformation? If they belong too a scouting subscription then all a team who wants a player needs to do is have the same service tell every other team player B is a low round draft choice. You never know what money can buy you! Just so you know CBSSports scouting guru's had Jamie Collins as the 6th best OLB/DE availible in this draft. So BB made a call as to whom he wanted in the second round. So I doubt very seriously he would have been availible in round 5 or 6 as suggested by Pauline. Harmon was a two time All big East selection at SS how is drafting him in the 3 rd round a reach? They didn't draft him in the first round but damn near the end of the third round practically a 4rth round selection. Sorry but I'll side with BB on these picks.


     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Lets revisit this.....

    It turns out New England coach Bill Belichick advised Atlanta general manager Thomas Dimitroff against trading up to get receiver Julio Jones in the April draft.

    That revelation was made in the book “War Room’’ by Michael Holley. Dimitroff spent years working under Belichick in New England’s front office. When pondering the trade, Dimitroff called his mentor and was told the cost of trading up for Jones was too great.

    The cost of moving from No. 27 to No. 6 was sending that No. 27 pick, along with second- and fourth-round choices this year and first and fourth-round picks in 2012 to Cleveland. Belichick told Dimitroff to sit still and take Jonathan Baldwin at No. 27. As it turned out Baldwin went to the Chiefs at No. 26.

    **************

    We can all sit here and debate who had the right move here, the Falcons or BB, but I can tell you that Julio Jones has been a much better player then Jonathan Baldwin.  Not by a little but by a lot!!  So yeh, I think you really have to question BB's decision making when it comes to the draft.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     

     



    I dont think it works that way TFB...I think the scouts do their jobs. I think contrary to what Babe says, they probably do it very well, or they would not be working for BB. I believe BB then uses the scouts information as simply one part of the formula for what he is looking for...most likely he uses scouts, college coaches, his own player work outs etc...to formulate who he will draft...I dont think the scouts give BB the player reports, and BB follows their lead...BB takes in all info and then makes HIS decisions

     

     




    I hear ya.  But I guess my point is if BB really likes a player and the scouts don't then we have a problem! Especially if these players the scouts don't like are getting drafted really high.  Something is wrong somewhere.  BB?  Scouts?  This seems to really shed some light on some of the bad drafting over the years.   My favorite coach of all time does have a mean streak of stubbornness that has hurt the team. 

     

     

    I doubt BB was just being obstinant. Do the Patriots employ their own scouts or do they subscribe to the multiple scouting service that recommends players for a group of teams??? It makes a difference because they have other clients to consider when making their suggestions. Have you never heard of disinformation? If they belong too a scouting subscription then all a team who wants a player needs to do is have the same service tell every other team player B is a low round draft choice. You never know what money can buy you!


     




    I believe every team employs their own scouts, they are broken up into regions, etc. Most teams also subscribe to a scouting service as well...we don't.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    good info TFB, but I didnt think this was news? Didnt every scouting service say the same regarding Harmon?

     




    But what I don't like, assuming I read it correctly, is it was the Patriots Scouts that were over ruled.  Again, if you have your own scouting department why are you not using the info they are providing?  I would imagine the scouting department and BB would all be on the same page with what they are looking for, no?  Don't you think it's beyond time to either let the Scouts do their job and use their info to pick players or maybe time to replace the scouting department if BB doesn't agree with them? 

     

     



    I dont think it works that way TFB...I think the scouts do their jobs. I think contrary to what Babe says, they probably do it very well, or they would not be working for BB. I believe BB then uses the scouts information as simply one part of the formula for what he is looking for...most likely he uses scouts, college coaches, his own player work outs etc...to formulate who he will draft...I dont think the scouts give BB the player reports, and BB follows their lead...BB takes in all info and then makes HIS decisions

     

     




    I hear ya.  But I guess my point is if BB really likes a player and the scouts don't then we have a problem! Especially if these players the scouts don't like are getting drafted really high.  Something is wrong somewhere.  BB?  Scouts?  This seems to really shed some light on some of the bad drafting over the years.   My favorite coach of all time does have a mean streak of stubbornness that has hurt the team. 

     



    I agree with have a problem...and I have been complaining about it for a long time...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Lets revisit this.....

    It turns out New England coach Bill Belichick advised Atlanta general manager Thomas Dimitroff against trading up to get receiver Julio Jones in the April draft.

    That revelation was made in the book “War Room’’ by Michael Holley. Dimitroff spent years working under Belichick in New England’s front office. When pondering the trade, Dimitroff called his mentor and was told the cost of trading up for Jones was too great.

    The cost of moving from No. 27 to No. 6 was sending that No. 27 pick, along with second- and fourth-round choices this year and first and fourth-round picks in 2012 to Cleveland. Belichick told Dimitroff to sit still and take Jonathan Baldwin at No. 27. As it turned out Baldwin went to the Chiefs at No. 26.

    **************

    We can all sit here and debate who had the right move here, the Falcons or BB, but I can tell you that Julio Jones has been a much better player then Jonathan Baldwin.  Not by a little but by a lot!!  So yeh, I think you really have to question BB's decision making when it comes to the draft.

    So let me see Tom Dimitroff a GM of another team asks BB on draft day or just before draft day his opinion on whether Julio Jones was worth trading 5 draft choices for 1? I'm not saying this sounds crazy but what team is going to ask BB his opinions on players just before a draft especially one who already knows BB could easily run the CIA, he's been too War College they don't teach you how to help your potential opponents at WC. I like you as a poster so don't take this the wrong way,I doubt they ever had the conversation.


     
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