Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    BB has had 5 years (this will be his 6th year) to rework the defense and that has not gone well the last 5 years. 



    Where do people get this 5 year thing from?  I see lot's of people talking about this as if it is a fact.  We had a top 10 defense in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    BB has had 5 years (this will be his 6th year) to rework the defense and that has not gone well the last 5 years. 

     



    Where do people get this 5 year thing from?  I see lot's of people talking about this as if it is a fact.  We had a top 10 defense in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

     

     




    I think a lot of people saw an aging defense those years however, and saw BB making an effort to get younger, with it not working;

     

    2007-Merriweather, Brown, Rogers, Richardson, Lua

    2008-Wheatley, Crable, Wilhite

    2009-Chung, Brace, Butler, McKenzie

    I think in those 3 years, 17 defensive players were chosen, and only one is still on the team, Mayo

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    BB has had 5 years (this will be his 6th year) to rework the defense and that has not gone well the last 5 years. 

     



    Where do people get this 5 year thing from?  I see lot's of people talking about this as if it is a fact.  We had a top 10 defense in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

     



    Defense

    2006 Pats ranked 6th in yards allowed, 2nd pts allowed

    2007 Pats Ranked 4th in yards allowed, 4th pts allowed

    2008 Pats ranked 10th in yards allowed, 8th pts allowed

    2009 Pats ranked 11th in yards allowed, 5th, pts allowed

    2010 Pats ranked 25th in yards allowed, 8th pts allowed

    2011 Pats ranked 32nd in yards allowed, 15th pts allowed

    2012 Pats ranked 25th in yards allowed, 9th pts allowed

     

    So looking at these numbers the Pats started their defense decline in 2008.

    Just to make it interesting... the won the SB with the following

    2001 Pats ranked 24th in yards allowed, 6th in pts allowed

    2003 Pats ranked 7th in yards allowed, 1st in points allowed

    2004 Pats ranked 9th in yards allowed, 2nd in pts allowed.

     

    Last 3 years have been horrible.  Thank goodness for TFB being able to put up such big scores.  Kind of shows just how valuable TFB is as a QB.  Doing as well as they have done with such horrible defense kind of puts things into perspective as far as what TFB means to the team.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    The 2009 defense ranked 5th in points allowed.  I am sorry, but if you think this represents a decline I think you are crazy.  In addition despite the yards issues the past 3 years (and unlike some I do think giving up lots of yards is a problem), 2 of those units finished in the top 10 in points allowed.  You could do a lot worse in rebuilding years.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    The 2009 defense ranked 5th in points allowed.  I am sorry, but if you think this represents a decline I think you are crazy.  In addition despite the yards issues the past 3 years (and unlike some I do think giving up lots of yards is a problem), 2 of those units finished in the top 10 in points allowed.  You could do a lot worse in rebuilding years.




    2009 ranked 5th in points allowed and 11th in yards allowed... yes, that is a decline compared to 2007 when ranked 4th in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed and in 2006 when ranked 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards allowed.  You don't?

    And 2009 was part of the begining of rebuilding years... Certainly it should be getting better, not worse as time goes on.  I would expect a drastic decline in years 1,2, and possibly 3, certainly not in years 4 and 5.  They are worse then the start of rebuilding.  What does that say?

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:



    2009 ranked 5th in points allowed and 11th in yards allowed... yes, that is a decline compared to 2007 when ranked 4th in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed and in 2006 when ranked 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards allowed.  You don't?

     

    And 2009 was part of the begining of rebuilding years... Certainly it should be getting better, not worse as time goes on.  I would expect a drastic decline in years 1,2, and possibly 3, certainly not in years 4 and 5.  They are worse then the start of rebuilding.  What does that say?



    Dude are you for real right now?  It was a top 5 defense in points allowed.  Who cares that in 2007 it was 4th.  If decline means a top 5 scoring D then our D should "decline" more often.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to poopsteo's comment:

     

    I have no faith in any of the picks we have made in the secondary, none!! All those picks the last few years and we have Merriweather and McCourty two free safeties and first round picks?!?!!??!?

     




    It's 2013. Get over the 2007 draft pick in the 1st rd. My god.

     

    McCourty has been very good overall.  Not his fault the back end was a mess in 2011, but he is now emerging as a top notch FS in the AFC, after an All Pro rookie year.  Not Pro Bowl, All Pro.

    Wake up, kid.



    Keep in mind folks this is the same guy that called Merriweather the second best safety in the AFC and sang Patrick Chung's praise for three years.  The Pope could give you a better evaluation of safety play than rusty.

    Leave it to Rusty to pee his pants over a guy who has played 7 games at safety, after crapping the bed as a corner.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Keep in mind folks this is the same guy that called Merriweather the second best safety in the AFC and sang Patrick Chung's praise for three years.  The Pope could give you a better evaluation of safety play than rusty.

     

    Leave it to Rusty to pee his pants over a guy who has played 7 games at safety, after crapping the bed as a corner.



    I think you are being a bit unfair to DMC here.  He had a great rookie season.  He struggled in 2011 although some of it may have been due to injury.  Last season I thought he played well at corner and was simply moved to safety because of injuries as opposed to ineffectiveness.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Lets revisit this.....

    It turns out New England coach Bill Belichick advised Atlanta general manager Thomas Dimitroff against trading up to get receiver Julio Jones in the April draft.

    That revelation was made in the book “War Room’’ by Michael Holley. Dimitroff spent years working under Belichick in New England’s front office. When pondering the trade, Dimitroff called his mentor and was told the cost of trading up for Jones was too great.

    The cost of moving from No. 27 to No. 6 was sending that No. 27 pick, along with second- and fourth-round choices this year and first and fourth-round picks in 2012 to Cleveland. Belichick told Dimitroff to sit still and take Jonathan Baldwin at No. 27. As it turned out Baldwin went to the Chiefs at No. 26.

    **************

    We can all sit here and debate who had the right move here, the Falcons or BB, but I can tell you that Julio Jones has been a much better player then Jonathan Baldwin.  Not by a little but by a lot!!  So yeh, I think you really have to question BB's decision making when it comes to the draft.




    And Atlanta has done what? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    GB's pass D was worse and they just won a SB in 2010.  But, that's only by passing yards allowed.

     



    Do YOUR homework dude.  Packers were ranked 2nd in PTS allowed and 5th in yards allowed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    They are looking at passing yards allowed as the metric



    Not true.  Do your homework.  Stop selling wolf tickets, dude!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Lets revisit this.....

    It turns out New England coach Bill Belichick advised Atlanta general manager Thomas Dimitroff against trading up to get receiver Julio Jones in the April draft.

    That revelation was made in the book “War Room’’ by Michael Holley. Dimitroff spent years working under Belichick in New England’s front office. When pondering the trade, Dimitroff called his mentor and was told the cost of trading up for Jones was too great.

    The cost of moving from No. 27 to No. 6 was sending that No. 27 pick, along with second- and fourth-round choices this year and first and fourth-round picks in 2012 to Cleveland. Belichick told Dimitroff to sit still and take Jonathan Baldwin at No. 27. As it turned out Baldwin went to the Chiefs at No. 26.

    **************

    We can all sit here and debate who had the right move here, the Falcons or BB, but I can tell you that Julio Jones has been a much better player then Jonathan Baldwin.  Not by a little but by a lot!!  So yeh, I think you really have to question BB's decision making when it comes to the draft.

     




    And Atlanta has done what? 

     




    Julio Jones has helped the team a whole lot more then Jonathan Baldwin would have.  Sometimes you gotta go and get it instead of sitting back and taking a Jonathan Baldwin type receiver regardless of the cost.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to poopsteo's comment:

     

    I have no faith in any of the picks we have made in the secondary, none!! All those picks the last few years and we have Merriweather and McCourty two free safeties and first round picks?!?!!??!?

     




    It's 2013. Get over the 2007 draft pick in the 1st rd. My god.

     

    McCourty has been very good overall.  Not his fault the back end was a mess in 2011, but he is now emerging as a top notch FS in the AFC, after an All Pro rookie year.  Not Pro Bowl, All Pro.

    Wake up, kid.

     



    Keep in mind folks this is the same guy that called Merriweather the second best safety in the AFC and sang Patrick Chung's praise for three years.  The Pope could give you a better evaluation of safety play than rusty.

     



    Hahaha!!! Rusty trys hard to make people think he knows what he is talking about when really he doesn't. Just more of Rusty making false claims.

    Actually my favorite was when Rusty claimed Amendola has lined up in the slot position less then Welker.  Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!  One of many I proved him wrong on!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    Same Sh*t I said TFB! It happened with C.Jackson too and with us choosing him over a Jennigs, it likely cost us a SB so to those who say no big deal, think again. I could understand if he overuled them for a sliding player he deemed to good to pass up, but its never the case. Its always a reach that the scouts have inside info on and BB overules most likely due to intangibles. Its nice, but those "intangibles" better come in to play on the field.

    Bottom line is Collins was drafted because BB likes the kids story, thinks he will be a player cuz he  is mature and has been through sh*t. Harmon roomed with his son and played for his favorite team. Thats it! There is no real Football related reason and THATS why I dont like it. Just like every year, BB always is looking for some guy he can make their far fetched dream a reality. Didint work with McKenzie either, I predicted his Bustment after 2 preseason games.

     

    Always drafting Navy players,etc. Its his thing, thats all. I guess with a loaded roster, you can do that, but I dont like it until it works. So far, I havent seen any reaches pan out. Wilson is the best one so far and that aint saying much.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    I think BB is making these decisions more than simply because he likes some ones back ground...I would like to think BB also looks at a players ability to be "coached up"...I think he looks at everything with a potential draftee, with the most important piece being "does this player fit into what I want to do next season and going forward"...I do not think that each scout is privy to exactly what BB has planned next season and beyond. The scouts are taking a "scouts eye view" of each player, but BB is taking a BB coached Pats team account of each player.

    For instance, a scout would not know if BB plans to resign Nink (hence drafting Collins). A scout would not know if BB is ready to walk on Ras, hence drafting Ryan. Is Harman equal to Gregory meaning Gregory will be cut saving money?  These are all things BB would keep close to the vest, and a scout would not factor that into his recommendations.

    I came away from the draft happy with the players chosen. I think each player has a good chance, as do some of the UDFA's...I am not happy with the trade down. But once BB traded down, I have no problem with the players taken 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think BB is making these decisions more than simply because he likes some ones back ground...I would like to think BB also looks at a players ability to be "coached up"...I think he looks at everything with a potential draftee, with the most important piece being "does this player fit into what I want to do next season and going forward"...I do not think that each scout is privy to exactly what BB has planned next season and beyond. The scouts are taking a "scouts eye view" of each player, but BB is taking a BB coached Pats team account of each player.

    For instance, a scout would not know if BB plans to resign Nink (hence drafting Collins). A scout would not know if BB is ready to walk on Ras, hence drafting Ryan. Is Harman equal to Gregory meaning Gregory will be cut saving money?  These are all things BB would keep close to the vest, and a scout would not factor that into his recommendations.

    I came away from the draft happy with the players chosen. I think each player has a good chance, as do some of the UDFA's...I am not happy with the trade down. But once BB traded down, I have no problem with the players taken 

     




     

     

    I think we are saying the same. Mature =  coachable. Raised his 2 siblings = leadership. Like I said, they are good qualities to have but you still have to be able to play football. I think the Scouts DO sit with BB about what they are looking for or else how would the scouts know who/what to look for. There are millions of college players to look at. How does it get narrowed down? Does BB send his guys to a few schools he likes while he goes to rutgers? I mean the only viable reason I can see for these reaches is that BB saw them practive first hand or something or got a good recomendation. So its basically the scouts spending all year traveling, watching games, etc, gathering info all to be put aside because BB spent a day with a kid and he came highly recommended. I will say, I like that Rutgers players come with ability to watch film, are mature and about football, but if there are better talented players with maybe a little less work ethic, I think it may be a mistake. You cant have a team full of mature, smart, tough, nice guy football players. You NEED a few that are crazy like Brian Cox who made the difference in 2001. Right now only Spikes strikes me as one of those. In postseason, these smart players aint cutting it and Ugly, Sh*t talking MO Fo's like Suggs are balling and helping their team advance.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think BB is making these decisions more than simply because he likes some ones back ground...I would like to think BB also looks at a players ability to be "coached up"...I think he looks at everything with a potential draftee, with the most important piece being "does this player fit into what I want to do next season and going forward"...I do not think that each scout is privy to exactly what BB has planned next season and beyond. The scouts are taking a "scouts eye view" of each player, but BB is taking a BB coached Pats team account of each player.

    For instance, a scout would not know if BB plans to resign Nink (hence drafting Collins). A scout would not know if BB is ready to walk on Ras, hence drafting Ryan. Is Harman equal to Gregory meaning Gregory will be cut saving money?  These are all things BB would keep close to the vest, and a scout would not factor that into his recommendations.

    I came away from the draft happy with the players chosen. I think each player has a good chance, as do some of the UDFA's...I am not happy with the trade down. But once BB traded down, I have no problem with the players taken 

     




     

     

    I think we are saying the same. Mature + more coachable. Raised his 2 siblings = leadership. Like I said, they are good qualities to have but you still have to be able to play football. I think the Scouts DO sit with BB about what they are looking for or else how would the scouts know who/what to look for. There are millions of college players to look at. How does it get narrowed down? Does BB send his guys to a few schools he likes while he goes to rutgers? I mean the only viable reason I can see for these reaches is that BB saw them practive first hand or something or got a good recomendation. So its basically the scouts spending all year traveling, watching games, etc, gathering info all to be put aside because BB spent a day with a kid and he came highly recommended. I will say, I like that Rutgers players come with ability to watch film, are mature and about football, but if there are better talented players with maybe a little less work ethic, I think it may be a mistake. You cant have a team full of mature, smart, tough, nice guy football players. You NEED a few that are crazy like Brian Cox who made the difference in 2001. Right now only Spikes strikes me as one of those. In postseason, these smart players aint cutting it and Ugly, Sh*t talking MO Fo's like Suggs are balling and helping their team advance.




    you want difference makers and playmakers. you dont get those types of players very often trading down unless there are negatives...injury, drug use, trouble with the law...or you simply get lucky sometimes getting a player that is a difference maker lower in the draft.

    BB has done well with these types...Gronk, Spikes, Hern, Dennerd

    any draft choice is a risk...trading down compounds the risk...sure, you build depth, but imo at this point in time, the Pats are very deep, very young, and need some playmakers.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Bill Belichick throwing down the hammer on draft day

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I think BB is making these decisions more than simply because he likes some ones back ground...I would like to think BB also looks at a players ability to be "coached up"...I think he looks at everything with a potential draftee, with the most important piece being "does this player fit into what I want to do next season and going forward"...I do not think that each scout is privy to exactly what BB has planned next season and beyond. The scouts are taking a "scouts eye view" of each player, but BB is taking a BB coached Pats team account of each player.

    For instance, a scout would not know if BB plans to resign Nink (hence drafting Collins). A scout would not know if BB is ready to walk on Ras, hence drafting Ryan. Is Harman equal to Gregory meaning Gregory will be cut saving money?  These are all things BB would keep close to the vest, and a scout would not factor that into his recommendations.

    I came away from the draft happy with the players chosen. I think each player has a good chance, as do some of the UDFA's...I am not happy with the trade down. But once BB traded down, I have no problem with the players taken 

     




     

     

    I think we are saying the same. Mature + more coachable. Raised his 2 siblings = leadership. Like I said, they are good qualities to have but you still have to be able to play football. I think the Scouts DO sit with BB about what they are looking for or else how would the scouts know who/what to look for. There are millions of college players to look at. How does it get narrowed down? Does BB send his guys to a few schools he likes while he goes to rutgers? I mean the only viable reason I can see for these reaches is that BB saw them practive first hand or something or got a good recomendation. So its basically the scouts spending all year traveling, watching games, etc, gathering info all to be put aside because BB spent a day with a kid and he came highly recommended. I will say, I like that Rutgers players come with ability to watch film, are mature and about football, but if there are better talented players with maybe a little less work ethic, I think it may be a mistake. You cant have a team full of mature, smart, tough, nice guy football players. You NEED a few that are crazy like Brian Cox who made the difference in 2001. Right now only Spikes strikes me as one of those. In postseason, these smart players aint cutting it and Ugly, Sh*t talking MO Fo's like Suggs are balling and helping their team advance.

     




    you want difference makers and playmakers. you dont get those types of players very often trading down unless there are negatives...injury, drug use, trouble with the law...or you simply get lucky sometimes getting a player that is a difference maker lower in the draft.

     

    BB has done well with these types...Gronk, Spikes, Hern, Dennerd

    any draft choice is a risk...trading down compounds the risk...sure, you build depth, but imo at this point in time, the Pats are very deep, very young, and need some playmakers.



    Agreed!

     
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