Bill Eff'n O'Brien

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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : ..mediocre game, yes. a win,yes. Just as people here say "a win is a win" it applies too to that game. And what "gift call" are you referring to? Are you gonna join maybe 2 or 3 others (out the total posting community) and say that was NOT pass interference on the Denver defender?
    Posted by RipFace[/QUOTE]

    The ball was underthrown and Holmes initiated the contact to gain separation. I saw PI on both players.


     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In 2009, I blamed the one dimensional offense, scapegoated the new guy last year, then I blamed Moss for wanting the ball too much this year, and now I feel like maybe it is really O'Brien and the fixation with throwing the ball a la McDaniels. When it's time to go for it on a makeable 4th and 1 against a mediocre run D (at best), everyone will ask about the call, where instead they should be asking why does this guy ignore the run the entire game, especially the first half? How do you expect your O Line and offense to generate a rhythm when playcalling is so predictable? He continues to eliminate production for entire halves simply by forcing plays. Case in point: 1st QTR - 1st down, BJGE 8 yards.  2nd Down, Pass.  3rd and 2, pass. Both incomplete, 3 and out. WHY on earth are you passing two times after an 8 yard run?  SD has a very good pass D and you go to a spread on 2nd and 2 and 3rd and 2? Where were the screens, draws, counters, etc, in the first half? this is just tiring. All we hear all week long is how "they Pats like to spread you out". Ok, well maybe they shouldn't be so F'n obvious/predictable anymore? Where is Edelman?  Where are earlier deeper routes to Tate off play action? It's like O'Brien can only get going in one of the halves, and this year, it's the 2nd half. That appproach will not work agaisnt better Ds.  WAKE UP, O'Brien.  AWFUL. GRADE: F
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]


    I guess you don't want Belichick on the team anymore....he is the one who approves the plays and would change it if he didn't like it.

    WE S*CK, WE ONLY HAVE THE BEST OFFENSE IN THE NFL! 
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    After the 9 yard run I would have run the ball next to get the first down and if it did not work run it again. If still stopped then punt the ball and make SD go a lot farther to get in FG range. But hey we won and I will be happy and take it.
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]I agree that when you get eight yards on first down, try running it again. I've been frustrated with this for a while. However, every game is a microcosm.  San Diego has among the best offensive and defensive stats in the league for what is now a 2 & 5 team.  Their defensive prowess may account in some degree for New England's lack of overall offensive output but we fans rarely credit the other team for anything, we simply say the PATS s _ _ k, of some facet of the team s _ _ ks, such as the pay calling or the Q.B. or whatever. We should also remember that San Diego let Cromartie go at CB and he's not chicken salad back there, so they must have pretty good DB's.  What should have us dancing in the street is the defensive play for three quarters, it was very good.  A pass rush is developing.  The defense forced or picked up four turnovers in the first three quarters of play. Who would have thought that in say, July?  Not many.  Who would have seen the PATS as winners of this game in San Diego in July? Again, not many.  We beat those guys in their own house.  Last year we couldn't buy a win on the road.  Now we've got two in what are tough places to win.  The play in the defensive secondary is becoming pretty solid.  There was more than one occasion where Rivers had no one to throw to and he was under pressure most of the day and the run was shut down.  It was the move in the fourth quarter, up 23 - 6, to start with the prevent defense that led to our angst at the end of the game.  However, I note that on their last drive to the missed FG, that the Chargers started at about mid field and hey could only move it into position for a forty five yarder.  Not bad, considering that last year we probably would have given up the TD.  The false start penalty shows Charger indiscipline, not PATS indiscipline and accounted for the win in the end.  The win is the most important stat.  Rivers had great stats and many fantasy people are happy this morning if they have him on their fantasy team but they lost the game.  I suspect Phillip Rivers is very unhappy about that stat. and we should be correspondingly HAPPY to be 5 & 1, which are the most telling stat for the NFL's elite teams this morning. I hope it holds up. 
    Posted by Dessalines[/QUOTE]

    Hey Des, good post, interesting content, poor choice of fonts!
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In 2009, I blamed the one dimensional offense, scapegoated the new guy last year, then I blamed Moss for wanting the ball too much this year, and now I feel like maybe it is really O'Brien and the fixation with throwing the ball a la McDaniels. When it's time to go for it on a makeable 4th and 1 against a mediocre run D (at best), everyone will ask about the call, where instead they should be asking why does this guy ignore the run the entire game, especially the first half? How do you expect your O Line and offense to generate a rhythm when playcalling is so predictable? He continues to eliminate production for entire halves simply by forcing plays. Case in point: 1st QTR - 1st down, BJGE 8 yards.  2nd Down, Pass.  3rd and 2, pass. Both incomplete, 3 and out. WHY on earth are you passing two times after an 8 yard run?  SD has a very good pass D and you go to a spread on 2nd and 2 and 3rd and 2? Where were the screens, draws, counters, etc, in the first half? this is just tiring. All we hear all week long is how "they Pats like to spread you out". Ok, well maybe they shouldn't be so F'n obvious/predictable anymore? Where is Edelman?  Where are earlier deeper routes to Tate off play action? It's like O'Brien can only get going in one of the halves, and this year, it's the 2nd half. That appproach will not work agaisnt better Ds.  WAKE UP, O'Brien.  AWFUL. GRADE: F
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100% with the idea of this post. I was screaming to run the ball all game long. I just don't understand. I watched the Pack/Vikes last night and at one point when Minny was dropping back a lot in coverage GB actually RAN 3 STRAIGHT PLAYS. And by golly it worked. Even if it doesn't work it is Basic Football 101. It is what coaches have been driving into us for years. RUN to set up the pass. WHY WON'T WE EVEN TRY?

    We were lucky to escape with a win last week. The defense(who a lot of people have been shredding here on this forum) is out playing the offense lately. I am starting to wonder which half is going to carry us the rest of this year. If we have this little faith in the run game then we really screwed up by not getting a RB in the off season.


    We will not win in December by running the ball 15 times.
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Bill Eff'n O'Brien : I guess you don't want Belichick on the team anymore....he is the one who approves the plays and would change it if he didn't like it. WE S*CK, WE ONLY HAVE THE BEST OFFENSE IN THE NFL! 
    Posted by m1024us[/QUOTE]


    No, I think he allows O'Brien to call the game. 

    SD has the best rated total D in the league, which again is misleading, but their pass D is clearly better than their run D.

    BB doesn't "approve" anything. He can micro-manage and oversee if he chooses and he probably does at times.

    He doesn't sign off on every single playcall.



     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]Yea you post here enough m10 to know that is clearly not what Rusty was saying, he is the biggest (no offense) Pats homer (I mean that in a good way this time) on this forum so he is not bashing BB he is just saying he doesnt like the play calling. So in your opinion is it you either love the Pats and agree with everything they do or if you complain about ANYTHING your not a real Pats fan? Cause you are kind of being a control freak about the whole thing. Not everyone is going to be happy about every little thing every week that doesnt make them not a fan.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    I never called him a troll, nor did I say he wasn't a fan......but people who don't make sense when they complain and have nothing to back it up with other than one 4th down play....have no common sense.

    They want to get rid of a guy who is still learning the Coordinator position (who doesn't even have the title) and want to keep the guy who really makes the ultimate decisions (Belichick)....doen't make sense.

    these people need to use common sense and think before they post....

     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]Yea you post here enough m10 to know that is clearly not what Rusty was saying, he is the biggest (no offense) Pats homer (I mean that in a good way this time) on this forum so he is not bashing BB he is just saying he doesnt like the play calling. So in your opinion is it you either love the Pats and agree with everything they do or if you complain about ANYTHING your not a real Pats fan? Cause you are kind of being a control freak about the whole thing. Not everyone is going to be happy about every little thing every week that doesnt make them not a fan.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    I am far from being the biggest Pats "homer", dude.

    Don't take this personally, but I'd be dollars to donuts I have a better historical knowledge of the NFL (all time) than you do.

    Just because I take into account all contexts and facts that tie into a topic, much of the time, it being FAVORABLE with the 44-14 record NE has secured since 2007, YES, it may appear I am defending the Pats over and over.

    That's not really the case, though. As I have explained many times, go look around the NFL.

    People complaining about  every single less than perfect thing here is what is pathetic.

    This ties into the AP Dynasty thread of appreciating the Pats and BB compared to the rest of the league.

    I get this "homer/Kool Aid" label, apparently, because I warned for patience back in August and Sept with the D. 

    Maybe I just see what is going one pretty good and have a decent grasp of what BB tries to do?

    Am I really a  Kool Aid drinker or is my analysis just pretty accurate within the context of a 44-14 team since 2007?






     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : No, I think he allows O'Brien to call the game.  SD has the best rated total D in the league, which again is misleading, but their pass D is clearly better than their run D. BB doesn't "approve" anything. He can micro-manage and oversee if he chooses and he probably does at times. He doesn't sign off on every single playcall.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    You might want to learn a little more about how this team runs......If Belichick does not like a play, he will change it.  

    Again, SD has the best total yardage offense and defense.....you don't win games on yardage. 
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : I never called him a troll, nor did I say he wasn't a fan......but people who don't make sense when they complain and have nothing to back it up with other than one 4th down play....have no common sense. They want to get rid of a guy who is still learning the Coordinator position (who doesn't even have the title) and want to keep the guy who really makes the ultimate decisions (Belichick)....doen't make sense. these people need to use common sense and think before they post....
    Posted by m1024us[/QUOTE]



    Umm, where was I only specifically complaining about the 4th down play?

    No offense, but check your reading comprehension skills.

    Belichick is not calling plays during games either. That's the second time you have said that.

    Defense? I am sure he is on those calls.

     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : You might want to learn a little more about how this team runs......If Belichick does not like a play, he will change it.   Again, SD has the best total yardage offense and defense.....you don't win games on yardage. 
    Posted by m1024us[/QUOTE]

    You're telling me I need to learn more about how this team is run?  Hilarious.

    BB is not a micromanager.  Do you think he stands over Dante Scarnecchia, Ivan Fears, etc?

    Pepper Johnson? No.

    He oversees everythign and may step in from time to time if he feels a need, but he's not a micromanager like you are insinuating.

    It's O'Brien's show on offense.


     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    35 second half points in Miami?  What? They scored two TDs on blocked kicks and one was a Def INT for TD.

    He helped the offense score only 14 points on offense after two FGs in the first half.

    Don't lie.  It won't work.  14 points from O'Brien in the second half because they ran it more.

    I don't want it to take a whole entire half before he can disguise and put together good play calls. 

    Bill O'Brien had NE behind against Buffalo in the first half, only with a late FG making NE come away with 17 points. Up to that point, they barely eeked out two TDs in the first half, lleaving Buffalo with incredible field position to score their points.

    You enjoy these 3 and outs? I don't.

    NY Jets Game? ZERO points in the second half.

    Why?

    6 Total runs from qtr 2-- />4.

    NOT GOING TO CUT IT.
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    BBReigns is right here. The thing is stpfan will never agree because he actually thinks running the football does not equal success. He also thinks Charlie Weiss is a terrible offensive coordinator, The spread offense is the only thing that works in the NFL and the Polar Ice caps are not really melting at all....I fabricated one of these things...Can you guess which one?
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]BBReigns - they put together the only two offensive drives they needed to put together in the second half @ Miami and scored two touchdowns.  And remember, this was when the game was still in doubt.   And I notice you're omitting the three touchdowns on offense against Buffalo because it helps discredit your argument. O'Brien has playcalled an offense that scored 21 in the second half against Buffalo, helped score 35 in the second half @ Miami, erased a 10-point fourth-quarter gap vs. Baltimore, and scored ten second-half points @ San Diego.  The lie that O'Brien is costing the team victories has to stop.
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]

    O'Brien had a good 2nd half against Buffalo.

    My premise is he struggles for an entire HALF. That's my argument. Entire halves of no points or lack of execution on plays that are either poorly called or a combo of both the call and the execution.

    That's (only 30 minutes of good playcalling ou tof a total of 60) an issue when you expect your team to play 4 quarters. 

    Yesterday, it was 61% pass, 39% run.  Look at the numbers against good Ds:

    When he's doing closer to 50/50 , this team does not lose.    When he starts to do 60/40 in favor of pass, they usually lose against good/great Ds.

    They almost lost yesterday because of botched play calls on two big turnovers by the D.




     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]Rusty I was not trying to use the term "homer" in that light hence why I said I meant it in a good way. I was trying to defend you by pointing out taht you are as pro Pats as they come but I should have used a better word to make my point. I was in no way calling you a kool aide drinker just saying you are home team all the way.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]


    I know. I am just saying, I don't get the homer comment in my direction. I am objective and critical. And yes, I love the Pats or I wouldn't be here.

    I was pegged with that because I said fans were crazy to knee jerk in August in September.

    I have been very consistent here. I also begged for TEs pre draft and people said we don't use them.

    Well?





     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    No, no. Not pointing that at you, I am just saying, I was critical of this team LAST year on offense in particular and asked why we shouldn't have legit TEs as a reference point to why I am not a homer.

    So, how could be a homer if I am critical of the lack of commitment to a quality TE?

    I just think it's funny I have become a whipping boy here when I am one of a bunch who bring to the table, strong cases, with reason and then data/fact to support said opinion.

    I'd argue people defending O'Brien and ignoring his penchant for having brain farts that last entire halves, are the "homers".



     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    With all the questioning of Belichick's decision to go on 4th & 1, nobody is mentioning that Patrick Chung was out with an injury at that point in the game. That was all the more reason to try to win with offense. 
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    No, they acted like the hadn't followed BB here for 10 years which was a mistake, as I tried to point out.

    Anyone doubting, agruably the greatest coach of all time in this league, with absolutely no premise, other than to whine and run away, has some serious issues.

    This is like Packers fans questioning Lombardi in 1969 or Bill Walsh in 1987.

    As you can see, I appear to more correct than the irrationals, wouldn't you say?

    As stated 1000 times here, disagreemnt is fine by me, but illogical commentary with the refusal to answer a direct quesiton or an insecurity with being asked a question tells me all I need to see with regards to some fans.

    They want a SB ring immediately to erase SB 42's loss. That's really the reality of it.

    Some cannot stand the fact NE lost that Super Bowl and have become delusional with how tough it is to win games, keep teams afloat and make legit SB runs.

    Anyone doubting BB and Kraft's philisophy has some issues.

    Do I really need to run down the list of successes again?


     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    I agree on not just the play calling, but the design as well of the O'Brien era. There are few slants, deep ins, and posts in this offense. Additionally, the TEs seem to be held to just the middle of the field and the outside WRs to the outsides (Branch on "outs" and Tate sideline "go" routes). Perhaps that is to maximize Welker in the middle too, but now that Welker is getting double teamed most plays, the offense has to morph when any player is used in any part of the field on pass plays.

    As to the running game, yesterday was BJGE worst "vision" day of the year. He had small holes, but too often tried to make more than he had by cutting away from the small holes he usually just "takes what he can" from. From a play design standpoint the run offense isn't bad - it is the sequencing of plays not integrating the run and maximizing the play action (Brady's BEST attribute) as well as going shotgun on 2d and 3rd down all the time, that drive fans bonkers. 
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : Umm, where was I only specifically complaining about the 4th down play? No offense, but check your reading comprehension skills. Belichick is not calling plays during games either. That's the second time you have said that. Defense? I am sure he is on those calls.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I didn't say that Bill was calling the plays....you might want to check your reading comprehension skills....Bill himself said that if he didn't like a call that he would change it.....every call goes through him.  This is not me talking, this is straight from his mouth during an interview last year.  If you don't like it, then that is too bad.
     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien : You're telling me I need to learn more about how this team is run?  Hilarious. BB is not a micromanager.  Do you think he stands over Dante Scarnecchia, Ivan Fears, etc? Pepper Johnson? No. He oversees everythign and may step in from time to time if he feels a need, but he's not a micromanager like you are insinuating. It's O'Brien's show on offense.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Again...reading comprehension......you need some.


    he listens to the plays called on his headphones....if he doesn't like a call, he will change it...why is that difficult for you to understand?

     
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    Re: Bill Eff'n O'Brien

    really it is obriens second year on the job... this offense has changed somewhat and they are still jelling... but i thought yesterday it was execution....

    russ... i thought they did try to run (anyone got the run/pass numbers??)but they used woodhead more so than ellis..and i think SD was prepared... also i think the oline got roughed up all over the field...so i wouldnt blame the game plan in this one as much as how the team executed and SD'S ability to smack us around a little... i just think we have to do a better job...

    but we still won and scored when we had to...
     
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    Re: BBReigns Makes No Case

    In Response to BBReigns Makes No Case:
    [QUOTE]The facts are these - Brady wasn't as accurate as he needed to be - it's the same story every time he plays at Qualcomm. The O-line for the first time all season got outfought. The deep threat was never there. EXECUTION, for the umpteen millionth time people.
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]


    BINGO! 

    Or there is the alternative and qwe could sound like the babies crying about the play calling.....LOL!
     
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