Bill O'Brien

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Bill O'Brien

    He's going to be hidden by Brady and the weapons he has at his disposal while calling games, but yet again he has a bad or medciore first half (or half) and can only call 2 quarters well.

    When will this end?

    It's hard to complain because the 2nd half fireworks, but all we saw him call in the spread for almost the entire first half.

    Why?

    3 and outs, stalled drives, only a FG on one of the drivers.  And this happened almost exclusively in a shotgun/spread offense.

    It stops the clock, plays into the hands of the D's gameplan and flat out doesn't work as a base offense.

    Could this be any clearer at this point?

    BJGE had 3 carries through the first 1 1/2 quarters.

    The whole reason why they scored that first TD was because they committed to the run. A run game teams just cannot stop because of the TEs.

    Give Detroit credit for a great rush, but how hard is it to combat that with TEs and a run game?  He finaly did it, but he waits so long it gives me McDaniels flashabacks late in 2007.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    yes, and it nearly got Tom's back broken (twice)...thankfully, Vanden Boesch had the decency to tackle Tom from behind with only his shoulder pads (which must have hurt enough) rather than using the helmet.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Maybe he trying to tire out Detroits dline by making them pass rush on every down. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    He needs to go over to Alphonso Smith and thank him for his poor play or we would've been in some sh*t yesterday. 


    Anyone else notice that the defense plays well in the first half against good offenses and plays pis poor in the second half, but pis poor in the first half against bad offenses and goes into shutdown mode in the second? 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]yes, and it nearly got Tom's back broken (twice)...thankfully, Vanden Boesch had the decency to tackle Tom from behind with only his shoulder pads (which must have hurt enough) rather than using the helmet.
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    I don't get it.  He eliminates play action and refuses to combat the pass rush with a well timed draw or just a simple run straight ahead.

    This is why people complain about NE's O Line. It's not the O Line. It's O'Brien.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]He needs to go over to Alphonso Smith and thank him for his poor play or we would've been in some sh*t yesterday.  Anyone else notice that the defense plays well in the first half against good offenses and plays pis poor in the second half, but pis poor in the first half against bad offenses and goes into shutdown mode in the second? 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]


    Here's what I have noticed:

    1. The offense is more experienced and better than the defense.  Not surprising.
    2. However, the defense has actually bailed O'Brien out this year a boatload of times.  You could argue they did it again on Sunday, but the D allowed the Colts to come back into it.
    3. The offense and defense are connected to how the other plays.

    It's nice to see this, but I expect the offense to dictate, not be dictated to.

    It's just so unnecesssary to go shotgun/spread to start the game and go for almost an entire half with it.

    They don't score with it and they lose the TOP battle every time.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    It;s not the point totals, its the time off the clock, realizing Suh his a beast, doubling him, running more, protecting Brady better, etc.

    O'Brien starts to games and his slow reactions to change is annoying. You can't tell me you were happy with yesterday's first half with the shotgun/spread, no run game, etc.

    Please stop.

    Give me better clock management and 28 points over 35-40 points and a bad half by O'Brien.

    That's my point.

    He will not get away with that against better Ds.

    Of course the calling is better than last year, but it's because the personnel is upgraded and DEEPER.

    You come off like he's very good and he's not. I can see why he doesn't have the title.

    I keep waiting for back to back games where he calls a strong 4 quarters. 

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Could be. Could be.

    I don't like the philosphy. I am well aware I am not the coach, I just think that it won't work against good Ds.

    It doesn't work.

    The offense can help the D and and D can help the O.  It's just frustrating when you know teams that sell out on the pass rush and he waits long stretches to run it.

    I am not convinced the best Ds in this league can stop this run when Crump/Gronk are out there.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Rusty, you don't think Belichick is telling O'Brien the spread isn't working? I assume they have a reasoning behind this but I guess none of us know it. For example, if the spread just wasn't going to work with Moss out of there or a Moss that was there but not mentally there, wouldn't Belichick already have his hand in the offensive play-calling and tell O'Brien what to avoid?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Look, I am sure BB drums up the gameplan on both sides of the ball to some degree. 

    I am sure he listens to both his coordinators and in particular Brady when gameplanning, but BB is the head coach.

    I just don't he micromanages the offense.  You'll see it more with the D because he is the defensive guru. Most of the time, he's talking to the D while O'Brien is calling the plays in.

    I have no issues seeing them use it, it's just when it clearly doesn't work, it takes too long to switch it up.

    I'd rather see the games where O'Brien mixed it right out the gate, instead of constant shotgun spread, watching tough throws fall incomplete, or Brady be harrassed.

    Of course, this could be by design, obviously.  I thought it worked well in the 2007 AFC title game, but I think those are rarities.

    And, I don't think it works for extended periods.

    The pass to set up the run is ideal for Pittsburgh type teams.  They can't cover and their rush is coming in a 3-4 which, in my opinion, is easier to throw on than a 4-3.

    You do a spread against Indy and it's not as effective.  It can be, but I think the speed offsests the spread.

    NE ran it for what, 150 yards last week and he goes to the shotgun/spread in the 4th qtr?  Why?

    In this game, Brady was sacked, took hits, threw early, etc, because Detroit is fast and obviously they were amped up for this one.





     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    ^^ Terrible contribution to the thread. I guess 10 points at half in a shotgun offense is what you were looking for yesterday. lol
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]Look, I am sure BB drums up the gameplan on both sides of the ball to some degree.  I am sure he listens to both his coordinators and in particular Brady when gameplanning, but BB is the head coach. I just don't he micromanages the offense.  You'll see it more with the D because he is the defensive guru. Most of the time, he's talking to the D while O'Brien is calling the plays in. I have no issues seeing them use it, it's just when it clearly doesn't work, it takes too long to switch it up. I'd rather see the games where O'Brien mixed it right out the gate, instead of constant shotgun spread, watching tough throws fall incomplete, or Brady be harrassed. Of course, this could be by design, obviously.  I thought it worked well in the 2007 AFC title game, but I think those are rarities. And, I don't think it works for extended periods. The pass to set up the run is ideal for Pittsburgh type teams.  They can't cover and their rush is coming in a 3-4 which, in my opinion, is easier to throw on than a 4-3. You do a spread against Indy and it's not as effective.  It can be, but I think the speed offsests the spread. NE ran it for what, 150 yards last week and he goes to the shotgun/spread in the 4th qtr?  Why? In this game, Brady was sacked, took hits, threw early, etc, because Detroit is fast and obviously they were amped up for this one.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I hear ya. I still think O'Brien's here to stay for a while as I don't see Belichick getting rid of him and bringing a new guy with a new philosophy. I'd love to hear why they come out in the play-calls but we'll never get that from Belichick and company, which I don't mind as long as they're winning. It still makes for interesting commentary. I'll you this though, for what it's worth, I'll take the play-calling and execution this year over what we saw last year. At least we're seeing progress.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MuellerTime19. Show MuellerTime19's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    You guys all seem to agree on the main issue...

    My 2 cents are that for the simple fact of protecting your QB in the past, we ran it. But now we actually gain LEGIT YARDS on carries by BGE. Pretty Simple when you think about it. Run it till they Stop it Brady said this week.

    We draft and sign TE's for the running game.....then we come out in Shotgun/3 and outs. hunh?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Rusty, I haven't been a fan of O'Brien either.  I assume the fact he wasn't given the official title after last season meant that BB wasn't too impressed too, but not so disappointed in him as to fire him.  Any talk of not giving people titles to keep them from moving on is rubbish.  I think he's done much better the last several games though.

    However, you can't have it both ways.  You are quick to point out how BB is a genius and the best HC in the NFL.  Most of us would agree with that.  Yet at the same time you accuse him of not being able to see/control/remedy something that any fan should be able to see?  Both of these things cannot be true at the same time.  

    My 2 cents:  

    1. Kraft said both he and BB both believe in promoting from within.  They really mean it through both words and actual deeds.

    2. O'Brien was promoted from within knowing full well there would be some growing pains.  He didn't do well enough to get the title last year, but not bad enough to lose the job.

    3. BB/O'Brien have made a concerted effort to get back to a balanced offense this year.  The Moss and Branch trades cemented that.  

    4. Play calling has improved by orders of magnitude this year.  Just because we may see a few series, or even a half of football that makes us fans growl, it does not negate the fact that play calling has vastly improved this year.  And let's just assume that maybe their game planning led them to believe those plays would work.  No O coordinator in the history of the game has ever put together an entire season of "oh, that was a great play".  They all leave you scratching your heads at times.  All of them.

    5. O'Brien will get the official title after this season.

    Again, we can't have it both ways.  BB can't overlook such glaring deficiencies and still be a genius and the best HC in the NFL.  I still lean towards BB being the genius and best HC.  That means your "fan" perspective of the offense is just not correct.  If O'Brien is canned after this season then I guess both of your views will have been correct after all.  I will put my money on him getting the official title though.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien : I hear ya. I still think O'Brien's here to stay for a while as I don't see Belichick getting rid of him and bringing a new guy with a new philosophy. I'd love to hear why they come out in the play-calls but we'll never get that from Belichick and company, which I don't mind as long as they're winning. It still makes for interesting commentary. I'll you this though, for what it's worth, I'll take the play-calling and execution this year over what we saw last year. At least we're seeing progress.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I agree. It's just that he only seems to do well in one half. This will catch up to him.

    Like I said, if a team stacked 8 or 9 in the box on this run offense, they will still have a tough time stopping Cronk/Grump off the edge or leading in a zone block down the middle of the line.

    Crumpler and Gronkowski are devastating run blockers.

    I come from the old school of "stop this" first.  O'Brien just seems to be flying blind during the game.

    And I chalk up the improvement more so to Brady and the balance with the 3rd WR and TEs options as compared to 2009.

    A lot was wrong last year. A lot is right this year, but scarily enough we still see O'Brien calling games where this offense puts up little to NO POINTS in one half, which was the reason why they went 10-6 last year, instead of more like 12-4 or 13-3.

    They didn't score any points in half 2 or 3 times last year.  Don't look now, but that has happened many times this year with this improved personnel.

    I just think the spread is dead as a base offense and he continues to use it. I think it worked perfectly, as many of us predicted, against Pitt, because Pitt's not a good match up from their perspective.

    In this game on Monday, NY has to respect this team's run offense and it's up to O'Brien to see to it he shows run all 4 quarters.

    NE scored NO Points in Week 2 in the second half, because NY knew NE wanted to throw.





     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    We've seen him call worse games.  But here is a classic example of what is wrong with his decision-making (and the of many other NFL coaches and co-ordinators): With the Lions' pass rush relentlessly attacking the Pats, penetrating from all directions and hurrying Brady play-after-pass play in the first half, O'Brien calls a slow-to-develop flea-flicker that predictably fails as the pass rush penetrates and pressures Brady into a bad throw. Why the call? To surprise the opposing coaches by calling a play that makes no sense because it should not be effective based on the game so far.  

    The Bengals made this kind of mistake last night, within the Jets' 15, calling for Cedric Benson to carry on downs one and two, to ill effect, leaving Palmer with another 3rd-and-long that failed.  Benson was averaging about 2.4 YPC to that point because his blockers were not breaking holes.  You had to believe he had no chance of rushing for a TD, and that Palmer had a much, much better chance of connecting for six within three attempts.  Again, a coach was trying to surprise the opponent by calling obviously inane surprise plays that should not be effective...and they were not.  What about just playing logical football and letting the players out-perform their opponent?  Then after some success, throw in a few surprise plays to pull away.

    However, O'Brien has improved since the beginning of the season, and over last...a little. McDaniels had a similar delay to his success.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    I couldn't believe it. That's what I mean. Why does he over-think it, when you know they are going to have an incredbily tough time the run and play action?

    It's just annoying.



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    In Response to Re: Bill O'Brien:
    [QUOTE]Rusty, I haven't been a fan of O'Brien either.  I assume the fact he wasn't given the official title after last season meant that BB wasn't too impressed too, but not so disappointed in him as to fire him.  Any talk of not giving people titles to keep them from moving on is rubbish.  I think he's done much better the last several games though. However, you can't have it both ways.  You are quick to point out how BB is a genius and the best HC in the NFL.  Most of us would agree with that.  Yet at the same time you accuse him of not being able to see/control/remedy something that any fan should be able to see?  Both of these things cannot be true at the same time.   My 2 cents:   1. Kraft said both he and BB both believe in promoting from within.  They really mean it through both words and actual deeds. 2. O'Brien was promoted from within knowing full well there would be some growing pains.  He didn't do well enough to get the title last year, but not bad enough to lose the job. 3. BB/O'Brien have made a concerted effort to get back to a balanced offense this year.  The Moss and Branch trades cemented that.   4. Play calling has improved by orders of magnitude this year.  Just because we may see a few series, or even a half of football that makes us fans growl, it does not negate the fact that play calling has vastly improved this year.  And let's just assume that maybe their game planning led them to believe those plays would work.  No O coordinator in the history of the game has ever put together an entire season of "oh, that was a great play".  They all leave you scratching your heads at times.  All of them. 5. O'Brien will get the official title after this season. Again, we can't have it both ways.  BB can't overlook such glaring deficiencies and still be a genius and the best HC in the NFL.  I still lean towards BB being the genius and best HC.  That means your "fan" perspective of the offense is just not correct.  If O'Brien is canned after this season then I guess both of your views will have been correct after all.  I will put my money on him getting the official title though.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    You're doing the glass half full thing and I just feel it's a problem that could cost this team because it's a repetitive flaw.

    If it wasn't an issue that showed up in some fashion in almost every game, I'd take that outlook.





     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brendon-Patrick. Show Brendon-Patrick's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    Quit your bitchin
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bill O'Brien

    I am sorry I even uttered the words 28 points.

    The bottom line is NE was PATHETIC on offense in the first half yesterday because they threw the ball, PREDICTABLY (there's that word again) in a shotgun formation.

    Brady almost got killed.

    It took O'Brien almost an entire half to figure out a way to cut into the pass rush was to leave in a TE to block or simply run the ball.

    Did you enjoy the flea flicker? Did ya?

    Pass, pass, pass, more pass and a FG only to show for it.  Gee, I am confused.

    I wonder why they scored a TD before half? Was it because NE finally ran it?

    Hmm.

    NE's D now has created 15 INTs, is opportunistic and physical.  Maybe it wouldn't be seen as "swiss cheese" if the Pats offensive coordinator's calls weren't such a joke for half the game?

     
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