Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]     Sorry...but don't expect me to get excited over this win at home over "the mighty" Buffalo Bills! Other than the "Mighty One", are any of you ready to reserve February flights to Dallas, after seeing this performance? Let the Patriots go into Miami and beat the Dolphins next week, and maybe we'll have something to be positive about. Can any of you remember the last time that the Patriots went on the road and beat a good team?      Here are my grades: A.) OFFENSE: Aside from a dropped pass or two, and a horrible fumble by Brandon Tate, the Brady Boys were, as expected, back on track this week against the woeful Bills .      1.) QB: Tom Brady bounced back nicely from his awful performance against the Jets, completing 21 of 27 passes for 252 yards, 3 TDs, and no picks. Overall, the offense accounted for 445 total yards, and 25 first downs. Six different players contributed with a reception of 21 yards or more...and the running game for a change did its part. All served to provide Tom with a relatively comfortable afternoon in the pocket. When Brady is able to run play-action passes, as was the case today, he's virtually unstoppable. GRADE: A;      2.) RBs: BenJarvis Green-Ellis may have staked a claim to the starting RB job with a hard-running, 16 carry, 98 yard performance. Danny Woodhead did a great Kevin Faulk impersonation with 42 yards on just 3 carries, and a TD...while Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris were reduced to cameo roles. Perhaps the addition of a good, young RB would serve to make Tom Brady far more effective, and extend his career. GRADE: B+;       3.) OL: Other than some inexcusable false start penalties, a strong performance from the men up front. They opened holes for the RBs, and provided ample time for the "Terrific One" to work his magic: GRADE: A-;       4.) TEs and WRs: If he remains healthy, Rob Gronkowski may develop into a pro-bowl caliber TE. He appears to be both a punishing blocker, and a guy who will blossom into a dependable target across the middle. He has already shown his worth in the red zone. Aaron Hernandez had another solid game as a receiver, hauling in 6 passes for 65 yards. As for the WRs, though Randy Moss caught only two balls, both were for TDs. Moss climbed to second on the all-time TD receptions list with 151, second only to Jerry Rice's 197. Wes Welker had 4 catches for 45 yards, but one 8 yard grab kept the game clinching TD drive alive. Bad fumble after catch by Brandon Tate, which helped allow the Bills to "hang around": GRADE: B+ B.) DEFENSE: Sorry, kool-aiders...but this unit is terrible. Today they allowed the worst offense in the NFL to gain 374 total yards, and score 23 points (7 more came on a kick-off return...discussed below). When you consider that all of this was accomplished by Buffalo in less than 28 minutes of offense...YUCK!! The "D" nearly allowed former Havard QB Ryan Fitzpatrick to pull off an upset. I find that rather upsetting .       1.) DL: The Bills rushed 24 times for 134 yards...an average of 5.6 yards per rush. Vince Wilfolk did not make the stats sheet. Need I say more? GRADE: D-;       2.) LBs: Jerod Mayo led the team in tackles with nine, including six solos, and one sack. Gary Guyton chipped in with 5 tackles, and four solos. As usual, there was little production from the OLBs...although Jermaine Cunningham was credited with a QB hit: GRADE: C;       3.) SECONDARY: Though interceptions by Patrick Chung and Brandon Meriweather sealed the deal, this group allowed "The Great Fitzie" to complete 20 of 28 passes for 247 yards, and two TDs...one of which was a 37 yard completion late in the 4th quarter, against Devin McCourtey, who was playimg in a very soft zone defense. This allowed the Bills to get back in the game, at 38-30. Some good run support, especially by Chung. But, you have to wonder how this game would have turned out if this group was facing a legitimate NFL QB: GRADE: C-             C.) SPECIAL TEAMS: Whenever a team gives up a TD on a kick return, it's a disaster. Such was the case today. After the Pats had gone up, 24-16, on a beautiful 35 yard Brady to Moss hook-up...this unit allowed the dangerous C.J. Spiller to return a kick-off 95 yards. The return seemingly turned the momentum of the game in favor of the Bills. But, fortunately, the Brady Boys proved to be too much for the Buffalo "D" to overcome. I don't have the same confidence in "The Ghost" as I once had. But, Gostkowski did nail a clutch 43 yarder to put the Pats ahead at halftime, 17-16...saving his squad from what certainly would have been a chorus of boos. Other than Spiller TD return, the kick coverage was good...and Brandon Tate continues to do a good job on kick-off returns. So ineffective was the Patriots' defense that the Bills only had to punt once, all afternoon. Punter Zoltan Mesko averaged a Hanson-esque 37 yards per punt, including a 36 yarder, which set up the Bills in decent field position for their last gasp drive: GRADE: C-    D.) COACHING: The coverage schemes that are being employed are not working. There comes a point where you can only do so much with "scheming". After that, talent, or lack thereof, dictates success or failure. The CB combinations of Devin McCourtey, Darius Butler, Whilite, and Arrington did not get it done, yet again. This, along with the teams' failure to generate a pass-rush, is proving to be a deadly combination. If that weren't bad enough, the Pats aren't stopping the run, either.      I don't know what can be done...other than await the 2011 draft...and re-load at DE, OLB, RB, and, yes...CB. Next week at Miami will give a true indication as to whether this team can contend in their division...or if this season should merely be looked upon as a rebuilding year. GRADE: C+ E.) PLAY OF THE GAME: Hard to pick one play, as this game was decided by a lot of "little-big plays", like the Tom Brady 9 yard scramble to keep the game clinching drive alive on a 3rd and 6...and later in that same drive, when Brady converted on another 3rd and 6, with an 8 yard pass to Wes Welker. But, if I have to pick one play, I'll go with the 35 yard Brady to Moss TD pass early in the 3rd quarter, which gave the Pats a 24-16 lead. F.) PLAYER OF THE GAME: Tom Brady.      Here are the game stats: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=300926017 .      Thoughts?            
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Good report; as good as anything I've read in the papers.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    What would the running backs have to do to get an A.  300 yards?  200 yards, 2 TD's and a 5.3 average wasn't A material?
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    The Pats are not running their more sophisticated defensive schemes right now - they are keeping them vanilla until the 7 new starters on D (including rookies and 2nd year players) learn to play together within this system.  And, yes, I am going to continue to assert that this is the issue. 

    Nice to know that I'm a "koolaider" simply because I disagree that the Pats D is a total train wreck and will be forever.  Always wondered what the trendy-hip-in-the-moment term was for 'realistic'.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wolfwood. Show wolfwood's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    the positives
    * take away the kick return  and we only gave up 7  points in the second half
    * Brady  had a solid rebound game and spread the ball out alot more than he did against the jets
    * nice to see us stick with the run  it opens the rest of the offense up when we can get it going
    *o-line   keeping TB on his feet and  opened up spots for the law firm

    the negatives
    *lack of pass rush,   if we cant generate more then it puts alot of pressure on the secondary
    *defense   we gave up the most points so far this year in the first half and save for a few flashes of what we could be with picks by chung and meriweather  they didnt install confidence in me by alowing bufflao to rack up 30 when they had only socred 16 total points coming into the game
    *special teams,   w gave up a kick return  for a TD and mesko had a sub par game only netting 37 yeards avg for punts and buggalo only had to punt once
     
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    It's going to take time for the D. It's encouraging to see Cunningham and Spikes make some plays (and start). The thing I was very happy about was the O in the second half. I thought Brady played very well and made good decisions. I hope he carries them to victory next week (they should be able to shred the phins D after watching it last night) and then they can regroup in the bye week.

    Even in their superbowl years they won shootouts, and their D eventually got better. Remember the game against the Titans when Steve McNair was in his prime? The D looked awful then, but they found a way to improve. I'm hoping for the same thing this year.

    And look around. Which D has been great? Do the Jets look unbeatable? NO! There's plenty of hope. It's all about how fast the young D can improve.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    Buffalo, with one of the worst offenses in the league, only punted once. Enough said.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]I like to think I'm pretty objective Tex. I have already stated that our D has made guys like Sanchez and Fitz look like Probowlers and we are in serious trouble(defensively) when we play real Qbs. I just think you go over the top in your stance against the Pats. I realize you "call them like you see them" I just don't agree with your opinions when you say such extreme things like"Brady can't get over the 07 SB".
     
    RESPONSE: I don't think that statement is extreme at all. Brady would be less than human if he wasn't bothered by the loss. He seemed in a fog as the season opened in 2008...and suffered his knee injury. The team has seemingly lost it's swagger, and has been a terrible road team, since that SB loss.

    To your first statement in your reply- "That was more then 2 seasons ago, you think that's good" Tex, Brady didn't play in 08. He came back from an injury in 09 that all NFL fans agree takes 2 seasons to get back anywhere close to normal. Yet you condemn him for being 10-6 with a BRAND NEW defense and extremely limited offensive weapons. I already know your response will be, "save the excuses" Well if that is your stance then you are no better then these fair weather fans who think anything less then a SB is a complete failure.
     
    RESPONSE: Where have I stated that the failures of 2009 were entirely Brady's fault? As for him coming back from his knee injury...save your excuses. Sorry...but the facts show that the Patriots haven't beaten a good team on the road since they beat the NY Giants in that classic 38-35 win, in the final game of the 2007 regular season. For that, the entire team and the coaching staff share the blame.  

    We have been spoiled to a degree with the the run in the 1st half of this decade. Beyond that we have been a team that is a yearly playoff contender. We have gone through the proverbial "Rebuilding year last year with a Qb rehabbing the worst knee injury a guy can have and still maintained a 10-6 record. We are now attempting to overcome having one of the youngest defense's in the league and a wet behind the ears assistant coaching staff. A lot of shoes to fill for this team and I personally think we have enough talent to over come our obstacles and make a legitimate run come December.

    RESPONSE: Never mind that "we've been spoiled" nonsense. Patriots' management have had some poor drafts, made some poor decisions on free agency, and the team underachieved by blowing several close games on the road last year (@ Denver, @ Indy, @ Miami) that they should have won. The consistent second half road failures are inexcusable.  
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : My humor is wasted on you. I say the D is bad for 3 weeks just not in the manner of a 3 year old girl. Run D in particular. But calling people whiners is just plain fun, especially those who take themselves so SERIOUSLY here and say the same thing over and over. Just copy/paste your thoughts on the D every week and save yourself some time typing.  Yawwwn.
     
    RESPONSE: Hey...I  was joking too when I  referred to you as a whiner...so stop taking yourself so seriously. If you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore.

    How do you know Buffalo is one of the worst teams now that they changed QB's? Because of stats?
     
    RESPONSE: Are you seriously trying to argue that the Bills are a good team?  They are now 0-3.

    Stats are for losers.
     
    RESPONSE: You should know.

    What if they string a few wins together, you know, like the Bungles did after we beat them?
     
    RESPONSE: Would you expect that to happen? If not, why?

    They played Miami tough(15-10) and they played Green Bay even for a half. Now with Edwards out they could be dangerous.
     
    RESPONSE: Yeah...and now that the Pats have replaced Laurence Maroney with BenJarvis Green-Ellis, the Pats are on their way to the SB. 

    Once again swami, they can't beat a good team on the road or have not beaten a good team on the road yet this year thru 1 game? You forget, every game is a new season.
     
    RESPONSE: The Pats haven't beaten a good team on the road since 2007.

    It's not how you start, it's how you finish. When was the last time you had fun watching a Patriots game?
     
    RESPONSE: I greatly enjoyed the 2008 season. I thought BB did his finest coaching job that year...and enjoyed watching Matt Cassel progress. I also enjoyed the win over the Bengals. But, I do not enjoy watching my team get consistently blown away in the second halves of big games, especially against the Jets and Colts. 

    You seem more concerned to type out your precious report card than to actually just enjoy watching the game.
     
    RESPONSE: Do you enjoy watching opposing teams going up and down the field against the weak Patriots' defense? I don't.

    What about Pioli being a better judge of talent than BB? The evidence is certainly there.
     
    RESPONSE: Really? Where's your evidence to back that up? Pioli was here in 2005 when the Pats traded a 3rd round pick for Duane "The Human Torch" Starks, and spent good money to bring in LB Monty Beisel. Pioli was here when the Patriots used their #1 draft picks in 2004 and 2006 on Ben Watson and Laurence Maroney. Pioli was here when the Pats traded away the 52nd and 75th selections in the 2006 draft to move up to #36, to select WR Chad Jackson.  

    What about the big win versus the Bungles, no comment?
     
    RESPONSE: Did you read my report card on that game? I also pointed out that the defense played poorly in the second half...and nearly let the Bengals back in that game. 

    Maybe it's time for you to lay off the hard liquor, you only have one liver, just saying.

    RESPONSE: Is that the best you can come up with? LOL!!! 
    Posted by PatsRfineIn09[/QUOTE]
     
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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]What would the running backs have to do to get an A.  300 yards?  200 yards, 2 TD's and a 5.3 average wasn't A material?
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

         A "B+" means a very good performance...which is what I saw from the RBs. To earn an "A", I needed to see something special...or better production out of Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris. For example, the Woodhead runs were outstanding...but credit must be shared with the coaches for their play calling, and for the blocking of the OL. Part of that gaudy 5.3 rushing average consisted of Woodhead's 3 rushes for 42 yards.
     
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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]The Pats are not running their more sophisticated defensive schemes right now - they are keeping them vanilla until the 7 new starters on D (including rookies and 2nd year players) learn to play together within this system.  And, yes, I am going to continue to assert that this is the issue.

    RESPONSE: I hope you're right.

    Nice to know that I'm a "koolaider" simply because I disagree that the Pats D is a total train wreck and will be forever.  Always wondered what the trendy-hip-in-the-moment term was for 'realistic'.

    RESPONSE: No...you're a kool-aider because you can't stand it when the Pats get criticized. Where have I said, "that the Pats' "D" is a total train wreck, and will be forever"?
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    They should put a sign up in this town if you criticize we will put you down.

    Really, there should be big red sign on the top of this forum:

    Warning:  if you post criticism of the Patriots of any type, in any way shape or form, you will be accused of being one or more of the following:

    1.  disloyal
    2.  a FAKE fan
    3.  a negative nellie
    4.  a whiner
    5.  a know nothing

    Hats off to the commenters who do not take this approach and instead offer a rebuttal argument going point by point over the statements they disagree with.

    Anyone can spend the time to put together a detailed analyses of the Pats and their performance if they can think and write thoughtfully.  A very few do.

    Most come on with their whining about too much negativity and then make the false assumption that fans who think this team is not SB bound are spoiled because of the Pat's previous success or that they feel the season is a failure if they don't go to the SB.  This is so much hog-wash.

    I've never seen so much outright neurosis and hair-pulling over a little criticism on a sports forum.

    But good post, Tex, just next time, please, can you be a little nicer to the Pat's and give them some real nice pats on the back while paying homage to the Super bowls they won years ago and genuflect a time or two to Bk and the genius BB.

    We're fragile little flowers here on the Pats board and you have really been hurting our feelings a lot.  LoL 
     
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    "RESPONSE: I don't think that statement is extreme at all. Brady would be less than human if he wasn't bothered by the loss. He seemed in a fog as the season opened in 2008...and suffered his knee injury. The team has seemingly lost it's swagger, and has been a terrible road team, since that SB loss."

    Wait a second so not only do you think Brady can't get over the 07 SB, You formulated this opinion from watching his play in the 2008 season? So after watching him play for a Qtr and a half against the Chiefs you concluded that Brady didn't look the same? I have to ask are you even going so far as to suggest him being "in a fog" is the reason he suffered the knee injury? LOL. Cmon dude.

    Anyway for the rest of your post. You are a big "No excuse guy" I look at last year and see a team that over acheived. A brand new defense that lost its probowl/SB core and an offense that had very limited weapons. Now I do agree that was an organizational failure to not draft better in 07,08 or bring in some valid receiving options, but in no way does this reflect on Brady,his composure or his ability to lead this young team to victory.
     
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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Hey Texas, While I agree we shouldn't get too excited after beating the Bill's in our yard. A win's, a win, a division one at that. Based on what I've seen to date. I watched the 1st two games, yesterdays game wasn't televised nationally. So I can't speak to your recap. I'd have to conclude we're a legit playoff team, but not a Superbowl threat unless our defense can get off the field. The flaws of this team, aren't much different than last years squad. However we have improved in some areas, mostly on offensive side of the ball. Time will tell if our defense can improve, I like the youth and athletisism of this years squad. I am not ready yet to conclude they can't or won't get better. As was suggested in another post on this thread, with our offense, all we need is to be able to hold teams under 20 points and we have a good chance to win every Sunday. In the end the only fatal flaw I see (much like last year) is our defenses failure to get consistent pressure on the opposing QB from the front seven, particulariry on 3rd down, without blitzing. The bend, but don't break defensive phylosophy appears to be once again the modus operandi for the 2010 squad. One need only to look at the film from the Bengals game to see the good (1st half), bad (the last drive) and the ugly (3rd quarter) of this years unit...The Jet's game was much the same. From the sounds of it, so too was yesterday's effort. The reality is that while our offense is built to win now (with only the RB position a real question mark), our defense is a work in progress. I'd suggest that we give the defense another month, and look for incremental improvements from week to week and begining in November, if we're still struggling to get off the field, than it'll be wait til next year (Unless Brady and Co. scores 38 points a game). In the end, if our offense hadn't failed to execute in the red zone vs the Jet's. We could be looking at 3-0 right now. I know the defense, Butler in particular, got schooled, but we also left a ton on points on the field. I'm still puzzled why they went away from Welker in the second half...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

         Based on what I've seen thus far this year, the best defenses are those that play tough in the red zone. The Jets were effective last night...the Cowboys beat the Texans based on their ability to hold them to FGs...and the same held true in the Titans' win over the Giants. If the Patriots are to contend, they must improve their red zone "D".
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]I dont think we should keep concerning ourselves with the the stats of a team in week 3 Tex, I mean all teams are putting it together..The fact is, Like I warned folks.,..The Bills have 3 top flight backs that can wear you down and have different styles....this is why C.J went right around Meriweather bcuz the change of speed from one back to another and when you cant stop the run , you open yourself up to playaction and one on ones outside and its harder to call a defensive game when you are on the ropes..and Fitzy is a good QB IMO....I thnk you need to get the SUnday Ticket, start learning about these other teams and thinking ANY game is a cakewalk....They get Paid too ya know...They have lost 13 in a row...ya think maybe they are playing hard too....C'mon man...Tex you are upset cuz you thought we should have blown them out...by your accounts the "D" did exactly what you expect , No?
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

         Come on, now! The Pats' "D" was terrible against the Bills. But, their offense was so good that they were able to overcome the lousy "D". Until the Patriots show that they can beat a good team on the road, I won't have much confidence in them.
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]" RESPONSE: I don't think that statement is extreme at all. Brady would be less than human if he wasn't bothered by the loss. He seemed in a fog as the season opened in 2008...and suffered his knee injury . The team has seemingly lost it's swagger, and has been a terrible road team, since that SB loss." Wait a second so not only do you think Brady can't get over the 07 SB, You formulated this opinion from watching his play in the 2008 season? So after watching him play for a Qtr and a half against the Chiefs you concluded that Brady didn't look the same? I have to ask are you even going so far as to suggest him being "in a fog" is the reason he suffered the knee injury? LOL. Cmon dude.
     
    RESPONSE: That's my opinion.

    Anyway for the rest of your post. You are a big "No excuse guy" I look at last year and see a team that over acheived. A brand new defense that lost its probowl/SB core and an offense that had very limited weapons.
     
    RESPONSE: A team with Brady, Welker, and Randy Moss had "limited" weapons?? Are you denying that the Pats blew those road games against Denver, Miami, and the Colts? Are you saying that Denver and Miami were better teams than the Pats last season? Pleeeaaassseee!!!!

    Now I do agree that was an organizational failure to not draft better in 07,08 or bring in some valid receiving options, but in now way does this reflect on Brady,his composure or his ability to lead this young team to victory.

    RESPONSE: Quit trying to frame our little discussion as me blaming Brady for all ills. Again, for at least the third time, I have never said that Brady was solely responsible for the 2009 failings. Poor defense and some poor coaching were the main culprits. 
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

         Here's a report card on the Bills' game from The Buffalo News: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article202213.ece
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]They should put a sign up in this town if you criticize we will put you down. Really, there should be big red sign on the top of this forum: Warning:  if you post criticism of the Patriots of any type, in any way shape or form, you will be accused of being one or more of the following: 1.  disloyal 2.  a FAKE fan 3.  a negative nellie 4.  a whiner 5.  a know nothing Hats off to the commenters who do not take this approach and instead offer a rebuttal argument going point by point over the statements they disagree with. Anyone can spend the time to put together a detailed analyses of the Pats and their performance if they can think and write thoughtfully.  A very few do. Most come on with their whining about too much negativity and then make the false assumption that fans who think this team is not SB bound are spoiled because of the Pat's previous success or that they feel the season is a failure if they don't go to the SB.  This is so much hog-wash. I've never seen so much outright neurosis and hair-pulling over a little criticism on a sports forum. But good post, Tex, just next time, please, can you be a little nicer to the Pat's and give them some real nice pats on the back while paying homage to the Super bowls they won years ago and genuflect a time or two to Bk and the genius BB. We're fragile little flowers here on the Pats board and you have really been hurting our feelings a lot.  LoL   
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]

    You are complaining about people complaining about the complainers. 

    So you and TexasPat are objective.  Based on the fact that you both say you are objective. 

    Then I suppose you would agree with TP that Brady lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so he played in the 08 chiefs game and he was in a "fog" from the SB loss causing him to get injured.

    And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year? 

    And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?
     
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    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : You are complaining about people complaining about the complainers.  So you and TexasPat are objective.  Based on the fact that you both say you are objective.  Then I suppose you would agree with TP that Brady lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so he played in the 08 chiefs game and he was in a "fog" from the SB loss causing him to get injured.
     
    RESPONSE: If you're going to use my words...please use them correctly. Where did I say that Brady "lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so" of the KC game? What I said was that he appeared as if he were playing in a fog...and was not really into the game.  I also never said that it "caused him to get injured"...but I do feel that his state of mind contributed to him getting hurt.

    And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year?

    RESPONSE: Of course not. Their problem is that their "D" stinks.

    And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?

    RESPONSE: What the hell are you talking about?
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]
    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : You are complaining about people complaining about the complainers.  So you and TexasPat are objective.  Based on the fact that you both say you are objective.  Then I suppose you would agree with TP that Brady lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so he played in the 08 chiefs game and he was in a "fog" from the SB loss causing him to get injured.
     
    RESPONSE: If you're going to use my words...please use them correctly. Where did I say that Brady "lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so" of the KC game? What I said was that he appeared as if he were playing in a fog...and was not really into the game.  I also never said that it "caused him to get injured"...but I do feel that his state of mind contributed to him getting hurt.

    Here's your Quotes:

    "In 2008, Tom Brady appeared to be sleep-walking through game one against the dreadful Kansas City Chiefs at home...until he was rudely awakened by a lunging blow to his knee, ending his season."

    "...he and the Patriots have never gotten over losing that game...and it showed in his play at the start of the 2008 season."


    "He seemed in a fog as the season opened in 2008...and suffered his knee injury."

    I don't know why your getting defensive about my paraphrasing.  Ok, he wasn't lazily walking through the game he was "in a fog" and that didn't cause his injury it "contributed to it."  Yes, that statement is garbage, it is not analysis, it is not objective.  Not only can you not really draw any conclusions about how Brady played in 2008 where is was a respectable 7 for 11 for 76 yards before getting injured but you can't possibly know what his state of mind is.  It is arrogant to think you can.  And yes, claiming Brady and the team are bothered by the SB loss is claiming you know what's in their heads.  You don't.


    And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year?

    RESPONSE: Of course not. Their problem is that their "D" stinks.

    And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?

    RESPONSE: What the hell are you talking about?

    I'm saying the reason you are getting criticized by the regulars around here is because of this sort or garbage psychoanalysis.  I've seen Zbellino, Tcal, Killa, Mighty, CarawayDJ, Pmike, myself and plenty of others criticize the Pats play.  They can stick to facts, and nobody jumps on them because they know what they're talking about and don't try to interject into the state of mind of the players.  The Defense has played bad, not everybody, but some people.  Zbellino gives good breakdowns of plays and what went wrong, so does Reiss. 
    Posted by shenanigan
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : You are complaining about people complaining about the complainers.  So you and TexasPat are objective.  Based on the fact that you both say you are objective.  Then I suppose you would agree with TP that Brady lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so he played in the 08 chiefs game and he was in a "fog" from the SB loss causing him to get injured. And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year?  And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    -

    This is a good example of the type of tactics used by many posters on this forum to try to squelch criticism by the use of ridicule, weak sarcasm, and other forms of put downs such as:

    1.  Make false assumptions and present them as facts

    2.  Mis-quoting,

    3.  Putting words in people's mouth

    4. Taking things out of context.

    - - - - -

    From shenanigan's post:

    You are complaining about people complaining about the complainers. 

    No, I am not complaining at all.  I am pointing out an obvious fact.


    So you and TexasPat are objective.  Based on the fact that you both say you are objective. 

    I never said that I was objective, I don't know about TP.


    Then I suppose you would agree with TP that Brady lazily walked through the 15 minutes or so he played in the 08 chiefs game and he was in a "fog" from the SB loss causing him to get injured.

    I'm not sure Tex put it that way or meant it that way:  are you mis-quoting or taking it out of context?  The possibility of the SB loss having a long term effect on TB and the Pats is something I have never considered, but it certainly has made me think about it since I read it from TP.

    And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year? 

    I never said that, another mis-quote:  I said that I think the Pats management are not Championship Driven this season, but that it is ridiculous to extrapolate that into saying the Pats are not trying to win.  Maybe the difference is too complex to discern for some people.  Of course they are trying to win and they will win their share of games and maybe go to the playoffs, but in an un-capped year they have not gone out and gotten the horses to be Championship Driven.  Or even signed all the horses they have under contract.

    And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?

    What are you talking about?

    Maybe more of you fans upset with critical commentary should be working on your own fact based analyses to support your point of view and start detailed threads laying it all out for everyone to see instead of sniping from the side-lines at others. 
     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
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