Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Wow, only 2 drafts then, that's even more impressive. I should revise this to SP's acquisitions on D over the last few years. I guess you have not seen Flowers or Hali play yet. So you like the Patriots D more than KC's at the moment? ...
    Posted by PatsRfineIn09[/QUOTE]

    Flowers and Hali were on the team when Pioli got there.  Anybody else? 

    I'll take New England's defense and see where we end up. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : What about Pioli being a better judge of talent than BB? The evidence is certainly there.   RESPONSE: Really? Where's your evidence to back that up? Pioli was here in 2005 when the Pats traded a 3rd round pick for Duane "The Human Torch" Starks, and spent good money to bring in LB Monty Beisel. Pioli was here when the Patriots used their #1 draft picks in 2004 and 2006 on Ben Watson and Laurence Maroney. Pioli was here when the Pats traded away the 52nd and 75th selections in the 2006 draft to move up to #36, to select WR Chad Jackson.  Oh yeah, BB did not have final say as to who got drafted, those were all SP's picks ROFL, have another Johnnie Walker. All you have to look at is the tenacious D the Chiefs have(38 total points given up in 3 games) , all those guys were drafted by SP in the last 3 years BY HIMSELF. Now look at the D that BB has drafted in the last 3 years and tell me what you think of the current Patriots D that was drafted by BB in the last 3 years  BY HIMSELF. Your trashing the current Pats D(with good reason) but failing to realize that BB has been lost on draft day without SP for 3 years, yet SP has built a top defensive unit in just 3 seasons. Your a genius. Who is responsible for the current Patriots D that you love so much? LOL!!
    Posted by PatsRfineIn09[/QUOTE]

         Think about what you're saying. First you say that the Pats' personnel decision went south due to Pioli leaving. Then, after I point out several of the many poor personnel decisions made while Pioli was here, you say that BB was the one calling the shots. If that's true, how can you justify crediting Pioli for anything while he was here? You can't have it both ways.

         As to the Chief's tenacious defense, I credit Romeo Crennel for that, more than I do Pioli. The Chief's "D" was terrible last year. 

         As for BB "drafting alone" for the past three years, Pioli signed with the Chiefs on Jan. 13, 2009: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/110596-scott-pioli-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-to-terms which means that he has only drafted for 2 years in KC, not three...and that BB was Pioli-less only for the 2009  and 2010 drafts. 

         In 2009, the Pats, along with many other teams, made a serious mistake in passing on OLB Clay Mathews. Still, that draft netted Patrick Chung, who, if he can improve his coverage skills, may develop into a solid SS. Though Darius Butler and Ron Brace currently aren't looking very good, BB did nab OT Sebastien Volmer, who, if he can manage to stay healthy, could develop into a pro-bowl caliber player. He also landed WR/KR Brandon Tate, who is contributing this season...and Wes Welker clone, Julian Edelman.

         In 2010, BB seems to have scored with CB Devin McCourty, TEs Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski, and ILB Brandon Spikes.

         The defense isn't a mess because "BB was lost on draft day for the last three years". As stated above, Scott Pioli has only been gone for only two years. Pioli was with BB in 2008, when the Pats', Jerod Mayo aside, had a terrible draft. The "D" is suffering due to key injuries to DE Ty Warren, and CB Leigh Bodden. The unit also is hurting due to the failure of OLB prospects Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, and Jermaine Cunningham (though the jury is still out on him) to step up.

         Are you seriously saying that "I love" the Patriots' "D"??? I have been personally attacked by some of my fellow Pats' fans, and even accused of being the Indy troll Underdog(gggg), due primarily to my criticisms of the "D". 
            

          
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dboss. Show dboss's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    I think this defensive unit will play significantly better as the season progresses.

    I would be happy with a playoff appearance or two and then an eye towards the next two years where the rebuilding process is complete, the pups have matured and additional layers of depth have been added.

    dboss
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : RESPONSE: As I've said on several occasions now, it is MY OPINION. Furthermore, why do you and other kool-aiders find it necessary to twist my words? There's a huge difference between being in a fog...which indicates that his mind wasn't in the game...and him being lazy.       As for my statement being garbage , I am entitled to my opinion...just as you are. -     OK, whatever I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

    RESPONSE: Of course you're not. You know that you've misquoted me, and twisted my words into calling Tom Brady "lazy", and into blaming Brady for all that is wrong with this team. That's not what I said, and you know it.  

     The statement you said, the one that I quoted, the one you wrote about Brady is garbage.

    RESPONSE: I'm trying very hard to refrain from attacking you personally. But...when you come here and say that my opinion is garbage...that's akin to calling me an idiot. Disagree with me all you like...but there's no need to be rude. 

    Sure, I guess it's your opinion that Brady was effected by the SB loss and it affected his game play.  It's my opinion that the moon is made of cheese.  But the moon either is or is not made of cheese.  Brady either is or is not bothered by the loss.  One is a fact, one is not.

    RESPONSE: I'm going to let that slide...refer to my comment above.

    You couldn't possible know what's inside his head. Not only can you not really draw any conclusions about how Brady played in 2008 where is was a respectable 7 for 11 for 76 yards before getting injured but you can't possibly know what his state of mind is.  It is arrogant to think you can. RESPONSE: I have watched him play since he came into the league, and, based on MY OPINION, he was out of sorts in that game, as if his mind were elsewhere. How is that arrogant? What's arrogant is you taking the position that there's no validity to my comments. How do you know? What makes you right?    -     I'm right because I don't claim to know what's on his mind.  And yes, claiming Brady and the team are bothered by the SB loss is claiming you know what's in their heads.  You don't.   RESPONSE: And you do? Any human being would be bothered by so devastating a loss...with so much riding on that one game. It was the type of loss that a player will take to his grave. -     I don't know.  I know Elway lost 3 SB's before winning two.  I don't know Brady or what he thinks or how he feels.  I would never say I do. And TP would you agree with Rajon that the Pats are not trying to win this year?
     
    RESPONSE: Of course not. Their problem is that their "D" stinks. And do both of you think this is the sort of objective fact based analysis that is above criticism?  

    RESPONSE: I have explained in detail, using stats, why their defense stinks. Do you think they have a good defense? But, if you wish to live in a fantasy world where everything Patriots is wonderful, be my guest.  -     Do I think the Patriots have a good defense? 

    Ummm.... in the post that you responded to (and it's still below) I wrote "The defense has played bad".  Who's twisting things now.
     
    RESPONSE: I think I'm dealing with Underdog(gggg) again!! Here you are, trying to twist words to cover your tracks. There's a huge difference between the defense "playing bad", and the team having a terrible defense. The Pats "D" has allowed 75 points in three games (7 more were allowed by special teams) to teams with average at best offenses. That's terrible!!: http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/sp_fbn_pats_27_09-28-10_4DK3QFJ_v3.1f9bdff.html

    RESPONSE: What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying the reason you are getting criticized by the regulars around here is because of this sort or garbage psychoanalysis.  I've seen Zbellino, Tcal, Killa, Mighty, CarawayDJ, Pmike, myself and plenty of others criticize the Pats play.  They can stick to facts, and nobody jumps on them because they know what they're talking about and don't try to interject into the state of mind of the players. RESPONSE: What does Brady's state of mind have to do with the Pats' terrible defense? That said, I do think that, after the SB, that the Patriots lost their swagger. They haven't beaten a good team on the road since that loss. That's a fact. They are constantly blowing games in the second half. That's a fact. Want more facts?: Here are some cold, hard ones: www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3315_Jets_find_Belichick_Defense_the_cure_for_what_ails_ya.html " /> www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3315_Jets_find_Belichick_Defense_the_cure_for_what_ails_ya.html "> www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3315_Jets_find_Belichick "> http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3315_Jets_find_Belichick _Defense_the_cure_for_what_ails_ya.html; and http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=lundblad_jeremy&id=5606325 -    

    Brady's state of mind doesn't have anything to do with the defense.  Really, I don't know that anybody has said the defense played well.  Nobody is disagreeing with that point, it's the other stuff. The Defense has played bad, not everybody, but some people.  Zbellino gives good breakdowns of plays and what went wrong, so does Reiss. RESPONSE: The defense has collectively stunk. If you don't like what I have to say, simply place me on ignore and go read "Z"  and Reiss.  -    


    Yeah, and you can place me on ignore also.  Look, I don't usually mind reading your grades, they at least create good talking points for discussion which is why I come here, but lately they've been full of absurdities.

    RESPONSE: That's your opinion. My opinion is that the Pats as a team lost their swagger, and confidence, after losing that SB to the Giants. They haven't beaten a good team on the road since. How do you explain that? Has their talent regressed to the point where they are incapable of beating a good team on the road? Has BB forgotten how to coach? Or, could it be intangibles, such as the team doesn't believe in itself the way it once did? Could it be that this team lacks leadership? Could it be that this team doesn't really think that they can beat a good team on the road...that they now only "hope" to play well? Could it be that this team has no expectation of winning on the road? 

    I figured since you and Rajon were both enjoyed saying that anyone that disagrees with you is a Kool aid drinker and can't except "facts" than I would present your absurd statements to each other and see if you could see why people discredit your opinion.

    RESPONSE: Do you believe that the 2010 Patriots team has shown themselves to a a legitimate SB contender? Do you believe that their defense is terrible...or just has played bad thus far? What's going to happen when they face offenses like Green Bay, Indy, Miami, San Diego, Minnesota, and Baltimore?    

    He thought your statement about Brady might have some validity, you dismissed his.

    RESPONSE: What are you talking about? You're comparing my statement that Brady was psychologically affected by the 2007 SB  loss to his statement that the "Pats are not trying to win"? So...if he agrees with me about my statement, I  should agree with his?? That is absurd. 

    What I'm telling you is when you make statements about Brady's state of mind and other absurdities that you couldn't possibly know it discredits your whole post.

    RESPONSE: I reject your premise that my opinion on Brady being negatively affected by the 2007 SB loss is "an absurd statement". Disagree with me if you like, but I have shown a basis for it. Just because YOU disagree, doesn't make it absurd.

    Like your just bitter about a loss and are throwing unfounded insults out at the Pats.

    RESPONSE: I reject your premise that my criticisms are "insults" to the Pats...and by this statement, you have shown yourself to be the kool-aider that I claim you to be. Unfounded criticisms? Please explain what criticisms I've made about the Pats that are "unfounded"?? 

    Many people have tried to politely tell you the same thing.

    RESPONSE: Oh, really? Who are these "polite" people? I have been personally attacked by several of my fellow Patriots' fans merely because I dared to criticize the team's performances.  

    Instead of just admitting you were p*ssed about losing to the Jets when you said the stuff about Brady being in a fog and that contributing to his injury you have stubbornly stuck by that statement.

    RESPONSE: Losing to the Jets had nothing to do with my Brady comment. I believe that, after losing that SB, he wasn't his same, confident self. That SB game had not just a world championship riding on it, but football immortality, To be that close, and to lose it in the manner in which they did, would damage any human being's ego, and confidence. Intangibles are a huge part of football. The Pats haven't beaten a good team on the road since 2007, and consistently blows games in the second half. Prior to that SB loss, was that a trademark of Patriots' teams? A coincidence? A lack of talent? Bad luck? Or...could it be that this team has lost its' swagger...and confidence...that they no longer expect to win? 

    That's all, I don't hate you TP.  I would just rather see you get back to football, so I can enjoy reading your posts.

    RESPONSE: Again, intangibles play a huge part in the success or failure of a team. Apparently...you disagree with this.

    I don't always agree with your grades but I can accept that we can disagree on that sometimes but when your saying stuff about the Pats or Brady't state of mind than I can't take your grades seriously.

    RESPONSE: Saying what "stuff" about the Pats?

    I've said my piece now so I'm done with this thread.

    RESPONSE: I fully understand why you would rather not respond.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    -

    In the sole interest of having the last word, I think this was a great thread and that a lot of things got aired out.

    How does the group feel about that?

    LoL

    Hat's off to Tex for standing his ground in the face of what I would characterize as ridiculous attacks by emotional fans who can't stand to hear the Patriot's organization criticized and try to squelch or censor any one who does not think just like them.

    Bring on the stupid one-liners, cartoons, and at least one non-sequitur.

    LoL
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    This thread really has taken on a life of its own.  On to Miami.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    Hey Tex- I'm coming late to the party- but as always enjoyed your spot on analysis of the Bills-Pats game and grades earned. (or not as in the case of the D)

    Dolphins game is huge. Don't need to tell you why. We'll know more about what this team is made of.

    Don't you think the Pats need a D- coordinator? It's so obvious BB can't do it all...

    I know he has what he has- or it is what it is. But the play calling and getting the max. from a player loaded with talent or not is missing.

    Where's the next Tedy?, or Richard? Or Rodney?

    That's not a hypothetical question.

    Offense did look good against the Bills- no argument that that side of the field is loaded with talent.

    Should be an interesting season.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]     As to the Chief's tenacious defense, I credit Romeo Crennel for that, more than I do Pioli. The Chief's "D" was terrible last year.    "I love" the Patriots' "D"??? I have been personally attacked by some of my fellow Pats' fans, and even accused of being the Indy troll Underdog(gggg), due primarily to my criticisms of the "D".                 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Who hired Crennel, or better yet which team did not, because BB thought he could do it himself.

    Yes you love the Pats D, and my humor is still wasted.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Hey Tex- I'm coming late to the party- but as always enjoyed your spot on analysis of the Bills-Pats game and grades earned. (or not as in the case of the D) Dolphins game is huge. Don't need to tell you why. We'll know more about what this team is made of. Don't you think the Pats need a D- coordinator? It's so obvious BB can't do it all... I know he has what he has- or it is what it is. But the play calling and getting the max. from a player loaded with talent or not is missing. Where's the next Tedy?, or Richard? Or Rodney? That's not a hypothetical question. Offense did look good against the Bills- no argument that that side of the field is loaded with talent. Should be an interesting season.
    Posted by darwk[/QUOTE]

         Hey bud!! Long time no hear! Hope all is going well with you.

         I see the Miami game as a potential season breaker. If the Pats hope to accomplish anything of significance this year, it is imperative that they win their division. In order to do that, they MUST win this game. After this one, there's a bye week...and then their schedule turns brutal:
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/ne/new-england-patriots 
         1.) Baltimore
         2.) @ San Diego
         3.) Minnesota
         4.) @Cleveland (cupcake)
         5.) Pittsburgh
         6.) Indianapolis

         Lets' say that the Pats split those games. If they had previously lost @ Miami, they would be at 5-5, 1-2 in their division, and going nowhere. But, if they're 3-1 heading into that "running of the gauntlet", and split...they'll be 6-4, and 2-1 in their division. Assuming they'll beat the Jets in a rematch, the only team that seemingly presents a huge obstacle thereafter is the Green Bay Packers, at home. So...there's no reason why the Pats' couldn't make a late run, and win, say, 5 of their final 6 games.  

         If they do that, they'll finish at 11-5, and be 5-1 in divisional play. If they can do that, I like their chances of repeating as AFC East champs. But...10-6 with a 4-2 divisional record will likely be wild-card city. Anything less, and they won't make the play-offs.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Who hired Crennel, or better yet which team did not, because BB thought he could do it himself. Yes you love the Pats D, and my humor is still wasted.
    Posted by PatsRfineIn09[/QUOTE]

    Let's not get carried away with Romeo just yet.  He didn't get much of anything done in Cleveland, and it's been three games against not much opposition.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

     TPat: I don't live anywhere need Beantown anymore so I kind of rely on your imput for postgame analysis. Keep up the great work. I understand that the D is young and will hopefully improve, but if they play poorly you can't brush it under the rug and give them a total pass. Keep up the honest assessments. There are lots of us out here who appreciate your work. Thanks
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Let's not get carried away with Romeo just yet.  He didn't get much of anything done in Cleveland, and it's been three games against not much opposition.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

         Muz...have you heard of the "Peter Principle"...people will eventually rise to their level of incompetence? Romeo rose to his incompetence level as a head coach. But, he's been a great DC over the years. Have to wonder if, had he been hired, he could have turned the Patriots' "D" around.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Bills @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    Yeah- agree Miami game is HUGE. Pats schedule is incredibly challenging- esp. based on what we've seen so far from the D.
    Like how you're looking ahead at the Possible W's and L's. I know the mantra of the Pats is "one game at a time".
    But the brain trust- whoever that is besides BB- definitely needs to be playing out the various scenarios.

    Such a short season.
    Lots of side stories and side shows with the Dolphins. Close to the same intensity of rivalry with the JETS- maybe not the level of animosity.
     
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