Black Monday (pun intended)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    well P-Mike it's hard to say one way or the other.

    There are still a bunch of old time owners out there who might not be willing to give someone a chance if they are not part of that coaching tree club so the Rooney rule still makes sense. On the other side is the example you just gave where they had already found a replacement and it seems silly that even if the interim coach was there for half the season they still need to follow the Rooney rule.

    All in all at points it does seem silly and needs to be tweaked it still is a good and valuable rule to have in place as it gives many coaches who didn't get chances to grow on the normal coaching tree paths from way back in the 70's and 80's would be overlooked as not being qualified but eventually it would be nice just to get rid of the rule completely and know that the team will bring in people they feel best fit the job regardless of color.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    This is the NFL's version of affirmative action.
    I have to say as a Black person it's an insult to me. That's like saying the only way a Black dude can get a job coaching is because of rules or laws and not merit which is ridiculous.
    It's these kinds of rules and laws that only serve to segregate more But they're definitely not going away anytime soon.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    The rule implies that owners are too racist to interview black candidates.  I think any rule that starts with the premise that the world is too racist to give minorities a fair shot is flawed.  I guess the idea was that if nobody ever gives black coaches a shot they will never get the experience and therefore never get a fair chance (however, owners could interview and never hire). 

    The premise is flawed, especially now.  Owners want to make money and a large part of that comes from winning.  If they were racist, they have certainly excused their bigotry in order to hire minority players in an effort to win.  I see no reason to assume they are too racist to hire a minority coach that would win also.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)


    It looks like Leslie Frazier is going to be retained in Minnesota -- a good move, I think -- and I got to thinking about how there was a perception (at least among fans) that Frazier might not be head-coaching material because he had been interviewed numerous times and never offered a position.

    This is the thing about the rule that makes no sense to me. Frazier has developed this reputation, through no fault of his own, as a guy who's not quite ready to move up -- simply because he's been brought in to interview by so many organizations that never really intended to give him serious consideration -- all as  a direct result of this rule, that is supposed to be designed to "balance" the field, but actually seems to inhibit some of the more deserving candidates from succeeding.

    I get the spirit of the rule and I even think I understand why the league seems to think it needs to exist . . .

    I just don't think it works.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    I don't have an issue with the rule.  There have been, and still are some very good black head coaches in the NFL now.  I attribute that to the rule.  However, once it becomes clear that black coaching candidates are given as much a shot as anyone else, the rule should go away.  Are we there yet?  Maybe.  I doubt the owners are blatant racists.  I do think the league needed a good nudge to get them to give black HC's a shot.  Maybe we can say that the owners "get it" now.  They can look around and easily see that it was nonsense to not consider black HC's all along.

    As for Jerry Jones, everyone knows Garrett was his guy.  Jones paid him a lot of money to retain him as OC and not interview for a HC job elsewhere.  Jones found and hired Garrett.  I see nothing wrong with him not seriously considering another candidate.  This was more a case of an owner hiring someone years ago that he wanted to groom into the position.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Rerun...   to your point...  to have a rule which requires a "minority" candidate be interviewed is truly insulting to the minority candidate.  You want to be asked because of your skills and reputation, not because you have to satisfy a rule.  This is a hold-over from the "good ol' boy days" and there are plenty of candidates who are making a name for themselves today. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]This is the NFL's version of affirmative action. I have to say as a Black person it's an insult to me. That's like saying the only way a Black dude can get a job coaching is because of rules or laws and not merit which is ridiculous. It's these kinds of rules and laws that only serve to segregate more But they're definitely not going away anytime soon.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    Oh, c'mon. How insulting can it be with Rerun as your avatar?Smile

    In all honesty, I think affirmative action should be insulting to anyone with half a brain these days because there is still a need for it. To me, it doesn't mean a black person can't get the job on merit. It means he/she can't get an equal chance. That we still need this is appalling to me on a human level.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]It looks like Leslie Frazier is going to be retained in Minnesota -- a good move, I think -- and I got to thinking about how there was a perception (at least among fans) that Frazier might not be head-coaching material because he had been interviewed numerous times and never offered a position. This is the thing about the rule that makes no sense to me. Frazier has developed this reputation, through no fault of his own, as a guy who's not quite ready to move up -- simply because he's been brought in to interview by so many organizations that never really intended to give him serious consideration -- all as  a direct result of this rule, that is supposed to be designed to "balance" the field, but actually seems to inhibit some of the more deserving candidates from succeeding. I get the spirit of the rule and I even think I understand why the league seems to think it needs to exist . . . I just don't think it works.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    I hate to say this, but part of that responsibility may lie with Frazier. If he went on interviews when it was known beforehand that the team already had a candidate in mind and was only going through the motions then he is only contributing to weakening the rule and lessening his own rep. I don't know how many he has gone on where that may have been the case, but if there were, then he is accountable.

    There was a guy who refused to be part of that at one point within the last few years (Heck, it may have been Frazier himself.) and I applaud that.



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]I don't have an issue with the rule.  There have been, and still are some very good black head coaches in the NFL now.  I attribute that to the rule.  However, once it becomes clear that black coaching candidates are given as much a shot as anyone else, the rule should go away.  Are we there yet?  Maybe.  I doubt the owners are blatant racists.  I do think the league needed a good nudge to get them to give black HC's a shot.  Maybe we can say that the owners "get it" now.  They can look around and easily see that it was nonsense to not consider black HC's all along. As for Jerry Jones, everyone knows Garrett was his guy.  Jones paid him a lot of money to retain him as OC and not interview for a HC job elsewhere.  Jones found and hired Garrett.  I see nothing wrong with him not seriously considering another candidate.  This was more a case of an owner hiring someone years ago that he wanted to groom into the position.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    It has been known for years that Garrett would be the next HC. The Cowboys should have gotten a waiver, if possible. But, hey, if the Cowboys were smart, they would not have had Philips in there to begin with.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lafnboy. Show lafnboy's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    maybe it should be turned around, 30% african american, 70 % other (players). that would make everyone happy right?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    something to keep in mind is a decade ago a black man would not even sniff an interview, so the ability to at least get their foot in the door and get some actual interview experience is huge. think about the first time you got interviewed for a real job, what kind of nerves did you have?

    While some of these are "token" interviews, they are still useful experience that can be used for future Real opportunities.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Where is Killa with his pleading post to avoid all race based comments? Bawahah

    Keep in mind that 13% of the American population is African-American/Black.

    Also, I am pretty sure owners only want profits and winning, and could care less about skin color.

    Finally, has anyone ever been used in an interview? If you are past the age of 30, it's highly likely you have, whether it be for under or over-qualification purposes.

    It's very annoying as I am sure it would be for an unqualified "token" minority interviewee who is being used for the process.




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]Rerun...   to your point...  to have a rule which requires a "minority" candidate be interviewed is truly insulting to the minority candidate.  You want to be asked because of your skills and reputation, not because you have to satisfy a rule.  This is a hold-over from the "good ol' boy days" and there are plenty of candidates who are making a name for themselves today. 
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%.I grew up in the "hood" for lack of a better term. I didn't get a leg up from anybody in life besides my family and I've done well because I worked hard. The last thing I want is for someone to tell me the only reason I have what I have is because of the color of my skin.
    Anybody can do anything they want in this country. Is life fair all the time..Hellll no, but creating laws and rules does nothing more than guarantee that it will never be fair.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended) : Oh, c'mon. How insulting can it be with Rerun as your avatar? In all honesty, I think affirmative action should be insulting to anyone with half a brain these days because there is still a need for it. To me, it doesn't mean a black person can't get the job on merit. It means he/she can't get an equal chance. That we still need this is appalling to me on a human level.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    I understand what you're saying and there are many different opinions on the subject but don't agree with the premise that it's "needed". As far as the rerun Avatar, that's been my nickname since I was a kid and I don't find it insulting. Sorry if you do.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended) : I understand what you're saying and there are many different opinions on the subject but don't agree with the premise that it's "needed". As far as the rerun Avatar, that's been my nickname since I was a kid and I don't find it insulting. Sorry if you do.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    I meant it as a joke. I loved that show as a kid. I did put the smiley icon after, just in case.

    WRT, Affirmative Action - I believe it is something that was needed, was supposed to be stop-gap, but became ingrained in the consciousness of the US and will be very difficult to remove. 

    WRT the Rooney Rule - It certainly has worked, but it may also be time to retire it but only if the league's mindset has changed I.E. The league now has a supermajority of owners who value coaching knowledge and skill over skin color. If this hasn't happened, I am all for keeping it in longer to give qualified minorities a shot. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended) : I meant it as a joke. I loved that show as a kid. I did put the smiley icon after, just in case. WRT, Affirmative Action - I believe it is something that was needed, was supposed to be stop-gap, but became ingrained in the consciousness of the US and will be very difficult to remove.  WRT the Rooney Rule - It certainly has worked, but it may also be time to retire it but only if the league's mindset has changed I.E. The league now has a supermajority of owners who value coaching knowledge and skill over skin color. If this hasn't happened, I am all for keeping it in longer to give qualified minorities a shot. 
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE


    My Bad Man.. Sometimes it's hard to decipher humor or sarcasm on these forums and actually I agree with everything you said there.There are lots more Black coaches getting jobs and I guarantee you it P!sses them off if/when they hear someone talking about this Rooney rule. These guys have worked their way up the ladder just like everyone else.....Although, I bet the Colts aren't too happy with Caldwell by the end of next year..Just my prediction but the Colts seem a little softer on "D"
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Patriots coach Bill Belichick expresses regret about Black Monday

    -Ian Rapport (Herald)

    Today is the day they call Black Monday. It’s not a pleasant day in the NFL.

    The regular season is over for all but 12 teams, and it’s time for coaches to get fired. It started today with the axing of Browns coach Eric Mangini, and the entire day has been about those in flux — like the Titans Jeff Fisher and the Bengals Marvin Lewis.

    Here is a scoreboard of the day’s activities.  As for coach Bill Belichick, well, he hates it all.

    Unfortunately that’s kind of the way it is in the National Football League these days,” Belichick said. “A lot of coaches didn’t even make it through the season. One year they’re in the Super Bowl, the next year they’re out of a job. We’ve seen that over the last five, six years: a lot of great coaches getting fired at the end of the season or a lot of guys not in football that when you start to look at Super Bowl coaches and Super Bowl champion coaches and coaches without outstanding records and multiple division championships and so forth, that aren’t coaching a team at the end of the year, you can put together a pretty impressive list. So, I think that’s kind of the nature of the National Football League right now. To me, it’s an unfortunate commentary on it, but you’d have to ask the people that are doing the hiring and firing about that.”

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

     

    Not long before Rosenthal posted a recent item regarding the possible inability of potential 49ers G.M. Trent Baalke and potential head coach Jim Harbaugh to coexist, a league source was expressing to us a very strong feeling/hunch that Harbaugh would be paired not with Baalke but with NFL Network’s Michael Lombardi.

    “Lombardi and Harbaugh have a close relationship,” the source said, pointing out that they worked together in Oakland.  “I think Lombardi is ending up there.”

    Lombardi was interviewed last week, and he later declared that Baalke will be getting the job.  It meshes with what everyone else in league circles has believed — that the parade of unemployed front-office types to interview for the G.M. position was aimed at creating the impression that the team was doing its due diligence, and that Baalke eventually would be getting the gig.

    But with owner Jed York wanting a one-two Bill Walsh-John McVay punch to lead the team while on the same page at all times, Harbaugh’s reluctance to work with Baalke and Harbaugh’s apparent interest in working with Lombardi could change all of that.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Adam Schefter AdamSchefter 1/2 On a day when a person in the meetings said Bengals HC Marvin Lewis would return to Cincinnati, talks later broke off.

    Lewis left the Bengals complex when the two sides could not agree on franchise's direction and his future there is in serious jeopardy.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rams offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur to interview with Browns on Thursday. ... He might be The Favorite.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Adam Schefter AdamSchefter Broncos officials are scheduled to interview Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey in Atlanta on Friday for their HC opening.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    Adam Schefter AdamSchefter Filed to ESPN: Raiders informed Tom Cable they will not pick up the option in his contract. He no longer is the Raiders head coach.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jsppro1. Show jsppro1's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    This is a tough one, you all have valid pionts.  The bottom line is, how would you choose the best man for the job you need done.  However, Here is a question for you Pats nation.  How did you get your currents jobs?    Go Pats.   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    In Response to Re: Black Monday (pun intended):
    [QUOTE]This is the NFL's version of affirmative action. I have to say as a Black person it's an insult to me. That's like saying the only way a Black dude can get a job coaching is because of rules or laws and not merit which is ridiculous. It's these kinds of rules and laws that only serve to segregate more But they're definitely not going away anytime soon.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]
     
      I take it as an insult that you bring race into this, being white and married to a VERY BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMAN!!!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Black Monday (pun intended)

    John McClain McClain_on_NFL The Texans have hired Wade Phillips as their defensive coordinator.
     
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