Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE] Manning held the OL accountable, and in future games they played better because of it.  That's leadership.  
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Manning 'holding the OL accountable' would be fine behind closed doors I suppose; although it seems to be a stretch to assume that he should be the one to critique them despite his obvious deep football knowledge. Its questionable that it would constitute leadership, but I don't know the dynamic in the Colts locker room.

    However, doing so in public was most definitely not leadership, it was scapegoating. I thought that was a truly pathetic and unprofessional moment. I also thought it was an honest moment. I've never been able to respect the man since then, although he is certainly a great QB.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    Thanks BBReigns!  And your dull platitudes and unsupported pronouncements have me convinced too.  (BTW, you should review an elementary school grammar book; my previous post contains neither run-on sentences, nor sentence fragments.  Of course, on message boards these type of language no-nos are customarily ignored by all but the biggest of Jack-azzes.  It usually leads to the accused pointing out similar mistakes in the post of the accuser.  Can anyone point out the sentence fragment and the made-up word used by BBReigns in his 25-word response?)
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]Thanks BBReigns!  And your dull platitudes and unsupported pronouncements have me convinced too.  (BTW, you should review an elementary school grammar book; my previous post contains neither run-on sentences, nor sentence fragments.  Of course, on message boards these type of language no-nos are customarily ignored by all but the biggest of Jack-azzes.  It usually leads to the accused pointing out similar mistakes in the post of the accuser.  Can anyone point out the sentence fragment and the made-up word used by BBReigns in his 25-word response?)
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Stop saying "y'all". You sound like a rube from the South. Well, we know you are an Indy hayseed, but you aren;t from the South.   No one likes a phony.

    Thanks for stopping by today. We enjoy taking you to school.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list : Stop saying "y'all". You sound like a rube from the South. Well, we know you are an Indy hayseed, but you aren;t from the South.   No one likes a phony. Thanks for stopping by today. We enjoy taking you to school.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    You like making assumptions, don't you.  You know what happens when you assume...?  It just so happens that I am from the South, and I am not an Indy hayseed.  Since we're doing this, I'll assume that you're about 5'8", weigh about 300 lbs., and have a goatee that you believe to be cool.  You consider anyone from a more rural location than New England to be uncultured, uneducated, and provincial...and yet you've never left the continent, traveled west of the Mississippi, or obtained an advanced degree.  You still socialize only with your high school friends, even though you graduated fifteen years ago.  That's my vision of your average Pat fan.  I wonder if it holds as true as your vision of a Colt fan - a rube picking at his teeth with a blade of grass.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    Eveyrthing you said of me is the exact opposite.  So, you are terrible at guessing. Not a surprise.

    I just assumed a goober who would take the time to say "y'all" on a messageboard is a hayseed.

    Sorry about that. Maybe you are just a rube?
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    I was trying to make a point about assumptions. I was hoping most of that would be wrong, but it's how I've always pictured your average Pat fan. 

    You're kind of barking up the wrong tree with that rube stuff yourself.  I was more or less raised in the Seattle area, and I moved to Kentucky about a year and a half ago.  They definitely consider themselves Southern around here.  You'd be surprised how quickly "y'all" enters your vernacular when you hear it dozens of times per day.  Besides, I like rubes and think they're generally preferable to snobs and pretentious people (of which there were plenty in Seattle).

     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    Why on earth are you a Colts fan if you are from Seattle? I have been to Indiana/Nortern Kentucy on business many times. 

    Not the best place in the world to live, but improving. 

    But, why are you a Colts fan?  Are we to assume most of you are bandwagoners?

    How did I know?  Ugh.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]Why on earth are you a Colts fan if you are from Seattle? I have been to Indiana/Nortern Kentucy on business many times.  Not the best place in the world to live, but improving.  But, why are you a Colts fan?  Are we to assume most of you are bandwagoners? How did I know?  Ugh.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Another swing and a miss!  I lived in Washington, DC when I became football-aware in the 4th grade.  My brother was already a fan of the Redskins, so I took the other local team - the Baltimore Colts.  I assume that clears me of being a bandwagoner, does it not?
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    No, it doesn't. Faulty team selection reasoning.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    Perhaps they should leave current players off the list. After all they have not completed their carriers yet. Brady may notch another super Bowl victory before it's all said and done. He should definetly be placed ahead of Manning or Farve. Both those guys have only one ring and you could argue they played with better recievers for most of their carriers. To me, Brady belongs with Joe Montana, Johnnie U  as all time great QB's. The NFL past is filled with inconic players and I suppose there will be plenty of time for Brady to climb the ladder but no way Farve or Manning are higher! Gail Sayers, Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, Joe Montana- names like that belong in the top 20.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]No, it doesn't. Faulty team selection reasoning.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    LOL!  I remember getting a Colt Tee-shirt for Christmas in high school.  I have no idea where my parents found it in the pre-internet days, but I vowed to wear it the Monday after every Colt win.  That was the year the team started out 0-13.  I started wearing the shirt after Sundays that the team scored a TD.  Now, if suffering through seasons like that isn't a defense against bandwagonism, I don't know what is!
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list : LOL!  I remember getting a Colt Tee-shirt for Christmas in high school.  I have no idea where my parents found it in the pre-internet days, but I vowed to wear it the Monday after every Colt win.  That was the year the team started out 0-13.  I started wearing the shirt after Sundays that the team scored a TD.  Now, if suffering through seasons like that isn't a defense against bandwagonism, I don't know what is!
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Touche. I was kidding.  I just like giving gnat-like Indy fans like you a hard time.


     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]However, doing so in public was most definitely not leadership, it was scapegoating. I thought that was a truly pathetic and unprofessional moment. I also thought it was an honest moment. I've never been able to respect the man since then, although he is certainly a great QB.
    Posted by BelichickDisciple[/QUOTE]

    Ahhhh, now we get to the heart of the matter!  It was WAS an honest answer.  Manning was asked a question about the game, and he answered honestly.  Now I'm starting to understand the high degree of objection I've seen around here to this relatively obsure answer to one of a million post-game questions asked of Manning over the years.

    What I'm getting out of this is that honesty is not a quality that is valued here.  Let's see: Rodney Harrison was beloved despite his HGH (cheating) problems.  But as soon as he became a commentator and started assessing the Pats honestly, he started to draw your ire.  Same's true of Bruschi (though I never heard of him cheating).  No one here cared a lick when the Pats got caught cheating.  But being disloyal is unforgivable.  The whole atmosphere is rather mafia, the Myrmadons, and Germany circa 1939.
     
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    Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list

    Brady and Manning are both in the same league in terms of their skill and efficacy as QBs.  Both have very close numbers for career QB rating (93 and 95 respectively), and while QB rating is a very flawed measure (it's purely a ratio not accounting for aggregate production, it only measures passing, ignores errors like fumbles and sacks, etc), for players like Brady and Manning with a lot of snaps, it does show something about efficiency.

    A much more complete measure of QB efficacy and production is Football Outsider's Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement (DYAR).  DYAR accounts for every snap the QB takes, comparing how they do on each snap, based on down, distance and situation, compared to the average replacement player in the league.  By that measurement, Manning has been clearly superior to Brady over the 2001-2006 period, with Brady being vastly superior to Manning in 2007 and 2009.

    JulesWinfield voices an interesting objection to our favoring Brady:

    In Response to Re: Brady lands at No. 21 on NFL’s Top 100 list:
    [QUOTE]I think what says it all is this: in trying to defend this insane notion that Brady should be considered as good as or better than Manning, all you guys can do is cite team accomplishments.  Win records.  Playoff records.  Super Bowl wins.  All team accomplishments. 
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Jules, the reason we cite those is because they are a proxy for situational awareness, something that Brady has in abundance over Peyton Manning.  As the DYAR ratings year by year show (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2009) it's only in the last few years that Brady has surpassed Manning as a better QB--for a long stretch (2001-2006) Manning was a much better QB during the regular season.

    But in post-season play, Brady has been far superior to Manning, and in Mannings frequent melt-downs, we can see how his lack of situational awareness, his inability to Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act (the OODA loop or Boyd Cycle) at the same speed as a great QB like Brady become visible.  Those horrible meltdowns of course translate in to wins and losses (team stats, as you point out.

    Look at 2004, a year where Manning was a better QB during the course of the season: Manning was almost twice as good as Brady, far outstripping the league as the top QB (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2004). But in that same year in the post season, Brady played smart, situationally aware football (passer rating of 92).  Manning on the other hand, unable to adjust his game at that level, played abysmally (69 passer rating).

    Both things are true: Manning by any standard had a phenomenal season in 2004, with a passer rating during the year of 121 (even more ahead of the league if you use DYAR).  But in the cauldron of the post-season, where all the teams are good, and the tempo and intensity of the game increases, his talent as a passer is overshadowed by his lack of talent (compared to Brady) as a quarterback.

    Brett Favre on the other hand pretty much suxxes, so I'm very unhappy with him being on that list. 
     

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