Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from benBlev. Show benBlev's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I watched this and to tell you the truth I could give a crap less what they think. We know he's the best playing right now and has the chance to be the best that ever played. We've known this and just because these guys say it doesn't make it any more true to us. The one good thing it did do was force doggggg to finally admit it after 2 years and 10,000,000,000,000 words of trying to type sense into him.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Thats mostly the reason why i posted it Sam.. Also maybe just to hype everyone up for the season too!! Woohoo! GO PATS! : D
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from benBlev. Show benBlev's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Btw.. What the hell is up with this Tony Mazzzzz guy (Yes the multiple z's were on purpose hehe) He writes an article Titled Brady won't hold out -- but he should... I mean whos side is he on anyways...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I watched this and to tell you the truth I could give a crap less what they think. We know he's the best playing right now and has the chance to be the best that ever played. We've known this and just because these guys say it doesn't make it any more true to us. The one good thing it did do was force doggggg to finally admit it after 2 years and 10,000,000,000,000 words of trying to type sense into him.
    Posted by Sam-Adams

    Sam - I think you can go back and see plenty of posts from me that suggest I think Manning and Brady are 1a and 1b. 

    Certainly I am going to defend Manning.  Always have always will.  The question is could Brady have done what Manning did if the roles were reversed and vice versa.  I do think it would have been much easier for Manning to do what Brady did.  I don't know if Brady could have managed to have the success Manning did with the colts. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Fantasy Baron? More like fantasy clown.  If it's so easy for anyone to win a SB, why didn't Marino win one? That bull about Marino not having a good defense is a load of crud.  Cold, Hard Football Facts:  Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league’s No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That’s a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino’s playing days. Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense. In Marino’s record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league’s No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game. There’s no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that’s the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.   And Brady had his generation's best offensive weapons? Is that weed laced with crack?  Yeah, Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel were perennial all-stars before and after they were Patriots.    Don't do drugs, kids. 
    Posted by 49Patriots


    I'm glad I was just kidding you've got a lot of facts there.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Tas - I understand what you are saying, and that's fine.  But could Brady have done as much as Manning (even if you consider it a letdown) with the likes of the colts D and vanderjagt's missed field goals at critical times?  Could he actually carry an entire team as Manning has had to do so many times in his career?

    He had his chance last year and had a bad playoff game.  He is given a pass since he came off such a severe injury, BUT should he?  How many games are allowed before it is determined that one has recovered from an injury.  He had 4 preseason games (I don't know how much he played) and 16 regular season games before that playoff debacle.  Its clear that the pats D is not what it once was so it was on Brady to deliver more than he's had to in the past.  He didn't.  Yet he still gets a pass on this board. 

    This year there should be no excuses because he'll be 2 years removed from the injury AND the pats D should be better.  Add to that that Moss is in a contract year and wants to play more and this board believes Brady has more weapons than he has ever had. 

    Pressure's on Brady this year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Tas - I understand what you are saying, and that's fine.  But could Brady have done as much as Manning (even if you consider it a letdown) with the likes of the colts D and vanderjagt's missed field goals at critical times?  Could he actually carry an entire team as Manning has had to do so many times in his career? He had his chance last year and had a bad playoff game.  He is given a pass since he came off such a severe injury, BUT should he?  How many games are allowed before it is determined that one has recovered from an injury.  He had 4 preseason games (I don't know how much he played) and 16 regular season games before that playoff debacle.  Its clear that the pats D is not what it once was so it was on Brady to deliver more than he's had to in the past.  He didn't.  Yet he still gets a pass on this board.  This year there should be no excuses because he'll be 2 years removed from the injury AND the pats D should be better.  Add to that that Moss is in a contract year and wants to play more and this board believes Brady has more weapons than he has ever had.  Pressure's on Brady this year.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    I hate to buttt in but we always seem to have to argument..I have always been of the belief that Teams win Superbowls not QB's..You need a good QB But they are useless if you can't put all the peices around them. Hypothetical question..If Dan Marino plays for the 49ers do they win more superbowls, less or the same amount? Also if Tom Brady was truly recognized in college he could have been able to stay right in Michigan and get drafted by the lions. If that happened we wouldn't have to be having this discussion because Brady's playoff record would be 0-0. The same could be said for Manning or any of the other greats. That's why I have always given a good portion of the credit for our success to BB and the Pats coaching staff/management. The Colts had the Talent to win a couple of years when they didn't but That's not a direct reflection on Manning. The Patriots should have won the Superbowl in 2007 and that's not a direct reflection on Brady. Give me dominant Offense and Defensive lines any day. That's what truly makes the difference. Over and out.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 123meg. Show 123meg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    So Manning, with one championship, did more with more weapons than Brady, with three championships and less weapons, did?  Huh?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I hate to buttt in but we always seem to have to argument..I have always been of the belief that Teams win Superbowls not QB's..You need a good QB But they are useless if you can't put all the peices around them. Hypothetical question..If Dan Marino plays for the 49ers do they win more superbowls, less or the same amount? Also if Tom Brady was truly recognized in college he could have been able to stay right in Michigan and get drafted by the lions. If that happened we wouldn't have to be having this discussion because Brady's playoff record would be 0-0. The same could be said for Manning or any of the other greats. That's why I have always given a good portion of the credit for our success to BB and the Pats coaching staff/management. The Colts had the Talent to win a couple of years when they didn't but That's not a direct reflection on Manning. The Patriots should have won the Superbowl in 2007 and that's not a direct reflection on Brady. Give me dominant Offense and Defensive lines any day. That's what truly makes the difference. Over and out.
    Posted by ewhite1065

    I concur.  I actually think that in this "more than any other" team game, to assess greatness based on # of rings is fallacious (don't giggle rusty - the word is not what you might think it is). 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Its clear that the pats D is not what it once was so it was on Brady to deliver more than he's had to in the past.  He didn't.  Yet he still gets a pass on this board.  He didn't have the D he's had in the past, but.....he didn't have the offense either. Still no excuses, he threw those picks, he had a horrible game and the Pats had (IMO) a horrible year. Pressure's on Brady this year I don't think he see's it that way, I'd say the pressure's on the opposing D's
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    It doesn't matter how he sees it, its my opinion.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I concur.  I actually think that in this "more than any other" team game, to assess greatness based on # of rings is fallacious (don't giggle rusty - the word is not what you might think it is). 
    Posted by underdoggggg



    That's actually pretty funny..I was going to come back with a comment for fallacious like "That's what she said"  But you wrecked it for me with the end comment.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Doggggg, and I think you can go back and find just as many with me asking you who was 1A and who was 1B.   I don't blame you for sticking up for him, I blame you for saying Manning's better. It's impossible to look at it that way, how do you measure will? I said it before, Manning plays like a machine, excellant mechanics but no soul. Brady has winning bleeding out of him. People want to do better for Brady versus Manning taking all the credit for every positive thing that happens and deflecting everything bad that happens. Who knows, maybe those big time losses in college are in his head and the memories show up in the post season.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Sam - I have to defend myself against the worst kind of hatred.  Sometimes I take my digs.  I really don't know who is better.  Maybe Manning is.  Maybe Brady is. 

    I'd like to believe Manning is better and have some pretty strong feelings about why I think that, but I cannot discount Brady's success.  It's really that simple.  Until Brady would have to perform in the same kind of capacity Manning has, and/or vice versa, then I have to give credit to Brady for his success, and it would be silly not to do so.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    I am not doing this with you Underdogg, the fact of the matter is Brady did have a better D and he did have a better kicker and all this "what if" crap is just you doing your best to save face. You can throw all the hypothetical crap at me you want but it wont change the FACT that Brady did win all those championships and Manning didnt and thats how it will go down in history and no one will ever say "oh well what if this or what if that" it will just be Manning choked and Brady was clutch.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

    Actually, per E (and I agree) the pats won those championships and the colts lost theirs.

    And you are entitled to your opinion.  Mine is just different.  Pretty simple.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    ESPN is one of the most intelligent and insightful sports media outlets in History. I take back everything I ever said about them...Until they turn on us again.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    A moment of silence for doggy boy. This has been a tough week for him, first he finds out gays are not allowed to just be themselves in the NFL and now his boy is dissed BAAAAAADDD on ESPN.

    Take away all sharp objects from the man.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    I'll take Marino over both Brady and Manning. Marino was a statistical monster. Anybody can win a SB you just need a good field goal kicker and good defense. Stats though?! If Payton continues like he's going his stats will put him right behind Marino as the GOAT. I guess Brady gets a nod but its really a credit to him playing around the greatest offensive weapons of his generation. Give me stats anyday!
    Posted by TheFantasyBaron



    How many S Bowls, I forget???
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Its clear that the pats D is not what it once was so it was on Brady to deliver more than he's had to in the past.  He didn't.  Yet he still gets a pass on this board.  He didn't have the D he's had in the past, but.....he didn't have the offense either. Still no excuses, he threw those picks, he had a horrible game and the Pats had (IMO) a horrible year.

    Pressure's on Brady this year I don't think he see's it that way, I'd say the pressure's on the opposing D's
    Posted by Sam-Adams



    I have dooggy on ignore, which has been very sweet for me, no senseless drivel from the dooggg.

    With out even looking I can tell this post was a response to doogggy drivel.
    Yeah Pats and Tom had a crappy year and a poor playoff game...

    On the other hand the dolts had a great year right up to the point where dumbo (once again) screwed the pooch and delivered his annual Christmas choke in the biggest game of the year....gotta be great living in Indy....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Not really Tas, because in the "most team" of games suggesting that Brady was the only reason the pats won those championships and should thus be crowned best of all time is slighting the rest of the pats who also had a hand in those wins. 

    I say the same thing about Manning.  Its just that through Manning's history he has had much less of an overall team to work with than Brady.  I give Brady credit because he has taken all of that and parlayed it.  Manning has also done the best he could with his overall team. 

    Lets be clear here.  Manning doesn't win 4 MVP's (more than any other player) by somehow being less great than anyone else. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Absolutely!..The only reason I will ever see any ESPN Clip is because someone posts a link here. The NFL Network made ESPN irrelevant for me and I haven't patronized ESPN on a regular basis since they torpedoed us about spygate. That being said, I hope they keep up the great work of recent hours.
    Posted by ewhite1065

    ewhite you mean like this?

    For an hour and 15 minutes preceding the Goodell news conference, this "SportsCenter Special" was a runaway train of inflammatory speculation that had Schlereth and Carter placing asterisks on all the Patriots' Super Bowl wins under Belichick.


    This is from a good article from the ESPN Ombudsman.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=schreiber_leanne&id=3438752
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Tas - So he's better because he won when he had better overall talent around him, right?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    ewhite you mean like this? For an hour and 15 minutes preceding the Goodell news conference, this "SportsCenter Special" was a runaway train of inflammatory speculation that had Schlereth and Carter placing asterisks on all the Patriots' Super Bowl wins under Belichick. This is from a good article from the ESPN Ombudsman. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=schreiber_leanne&id=3438752
    Posted by digger0862



    Exactly..Thanks for reminding me...Those Fu@@ers are the worst, most self righteous, biased, idiots on TV. See that, They're ruining my night already.

    Good column though.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Tas - So he's better because he won when he had better overall talent around him, right?
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Doggggg, he won because he made the people around him better. If you take it back to the year 2000 and look at their playoff records you'll see that the Colts made it to playoffs 9 times. The Pats only made it 7 so I don't buy what you're selling about the better team.

    Now, if you look at what happened when they got in they both had 17 appearences. Manning went 9-8 and Brady went 13-4 and like I said, he did it with two less years.

    Those are facts, there's no what if this or what if that happened. So now you have the floor to say it was the D, or it was the kicker, or spygate, or the russians........or wait a minute, didn't you already say Brady was better on another thread?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Doggggg, he won because he made the people around him better. If you take it back to the year 2000 and look at their playoff records you'll see that the Colts made it to playoffs 9 times. The Pats only made it 7 so I don't buy what you're selling about the better team. Now, if you look at what happened when they got in they both had 17 appearences. Manning went 9-8 and Brady went 13-4 and like I said, he did it with two less years. Those are facts, there's no what if this or what if that happened. So now you have the floor to say it was the D, or it was the kicker, or spygate, or the russians........or wait a minute, didn't you already say Brady was better on another thread?
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    I always thought Brady's best asset was his ability to convert on 3rd and 4th downs..Most specifically 3rd and more than 6 yds to go. I remember when he first came in for Bledsoe watching him do that consistently and just thinking, "There's no way Bledsoe makes that throw." I don't know how he compares to Manning in that area and they probably don't keep a stat like that but the guy gets that done as good or better than anyone I ever seen.. I don't count last year because it's the exception and not the rule.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Sam - how'd brady make the defense better?  How'd he make Viniateri better?  I don't buy that he made any of these guys better. 

    Now, did he make his oline and receivers and running backs better?  possibly.  I don't know about the line.  They may have been great already, and if Brady wasn't making the play calls then he wasn't necessarily controlling the flow of the game.  That goes to the coaches.  Did he make the Running backs better, you'd have to think so simply by completing passes.  Receivers, absolutely. 

    Please don't think that I don't give Brady credit.  I absolutely do.  Here's one thing he absolutely does better than manning, imo.  I think he throws a better ball. 

    By the same token, Manning had to try over his years to keep his defense off of the field.  Brady never had to do that.  Here are the opponent rushing totals in the playoffs against the colts for Manning's first 9 games:  198, 258, 180, 146, 196, 112, 78, 210, 112. 

    By contrast here are the opponent rushing totals for Brady's first 9 playoff games:   77, 58, 90, 84, 98, 92, 46, 163, 45. 

    In addition - during the 9 game comparison, the pats generated 25 turnovers while the colts generated 13. 

    You can stay blind and place blame on Manning for these losses if it makes you feel better, but when you examine the information, you see that really it is something entirely different and something Brady has never had to deal with until last year (and look what that got him).

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    look at all the also rans.... they would kill for the pats year last season...

    its just that for us ...we expect more....there has to be that commitment to excellence so that nothing else is acceptable..

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I always thought Brady's best asset was his ability to convert on 3rd and 4th downs..Most specifically 3rd and more than 6 yds to go. I remember when he first came in for Bledsoe watching him do that consistently and just thinking, "There's no way Bledsoe makes that throw." I don't know how he compares to Manning in that area and they probably don't keep a stat like that but the guy gets that done as good or better than anyone I ever seen.. I don't count last year because it's the exception and not the rule.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    I agree, he's a clutch performer and expects the people around him to be the same. I'm sure Manning has some pretty decent stats in this area as well or his regular season stats wouldn't be what they are. The playoffs, now that could be a liitle different.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Sam - how'd brady make the defense better?  How'd he make Viniateri better?  I don't buy that he made any of these guys better.

    By being a great leader, just because he's not out there with these guys doesn't mean he doesn't impact them. They see how he carries himself and how he gives evrything he can and hows he's the first one to the endzone to celebrate a TD with his reciever and give him a high five. It's the little things that add up to something big. 

    And I'm not blaming Manning for the losses just the same as I'm not giving him credit for the wins. It's a team effort and maybe one of the big differences between them is Brady is just a better overall on the field team leader who inspires his team mates to do better.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share