Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Well, plenty of bumps last year, the most I can recall. No doubt. But, it was far from "horrible".  Transition year. Rebuilding a D. Division title? I'd say it's pretty good under some difficult circumstances. Seattle can't even win the weakest division in the league as they have been rebuilding for 3 years now. NE rebuilds on the fly and wins a division with a QB who had 3 broken ribs and a busted finger, not to mention a top flight WR with a separated shoulder. When all this came out, it made sense.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Maybe horrible was the wrong word. They did have some good games where everything clicked but when I was typing it I was thinking about the inconsistency. I haven't scratched my head more about what they were doing since Bledsoe. So many areas were weak and vulnerable for the first time in ten years and it showed on the field.
    In the past one area could always make up for another. The D would get a big stop or the O would just run the clock out or special teams would get a big turnover or down it deep. There were obvious exceptions which is why they won the east and some players really shined while others took the ride. We need everyone pulling this year!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

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    Sam - how'd brady make the defense better?  How'd he make Viniateri better?  I don't buy that he made any of these guys better. By being a great leader, just because he's not out there with these guys doesn't mean he doesn't impact them. They see how he carries himself and how he gives evrything he can and hows he's the first one to the endzone to celebrate a TD with his reciever and give him a high five. It's the little things that add up to something big.  And I'm not blaming Manning for the losses just the same as I'm not giving him credit for the wins. It's a team effort and maybe one of the big differences between them is Brady is just a better overall on the field team leader who inspires his team mates to do better.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    If that were the case, Brady would have been handed those 4 mvps.  Not Manning.  The fact is the pats had a supremely talented and celebrated defense for 6-7 years when they won and a kicker who never missed in the clutch. 

    If players are professionals, they don't need to derive inspiration from others, they do it themselves to the best of their ability.  I think the patriots and colts players all embrace this mentality.  The difference where the defense and the kicker are concerned is in the talent.  The pats had it.  The colts didn't. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1024us. Show m1024us's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

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    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Doggggg, he won because he made the people around him better. If you take it back to the year 2000 and look at their playoff records you'll see that the Colts made it to playoffs 9 times. The Pats only made it 7 so I don't buy what you're selling about the better team. Now, if you look at what happened when they got in they both had 17 appearences. Manning went 9-8 and Brady went 13-4 and like I said, he did it with two less years. Those are facts, there's no what if this or what if that happened. So now you have the floor to say it was the D, or it was the kicker, or spygate, or the russians........or wait a minute, didn't you already say Brady was better on another thread?
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Also, the AFC East has been a stronger division......
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : I remember reading that article thinking no logical NFL fan will ever see this and any logic they wanted to use was shaped entirley by ESPN, with them using completely low IQ individual or agenda driven individual commentary. Joey Porter, Carter and Schlereth all were told or had an agenda with how they were going to react. How can anyone sit there and say "they used them in the game that day" when: 1. The tapes were all edited. If they were used in the game that day, why would you bother editing them? 2. Walsh said the tapes never left the camera and that was under a sworn statement. 3.  There is no real time within a 12 minute portion of half time to seriously whip into the locker room with some advanced uploading process, diagnose plays and signals and then have answers of what to do. 4. Finally, it's legal to film anythinig during a game, including signals and game clocks, etc, but just not from locations that are accessible to any coaches. The trigger had always been the location, not the act. 5. The home team has to give the road team a position, specified to be legal by the league, before the game. Schlereth's Broncos CHEATED (FACT) the salary cap twice because Bowlen moved Elway's and Davis's contracts off the books, falsely reporting their true salaries TWO YEARS in a row. This shows intent and deceit. In the first year, they signed Neil Smith from KC because their pass rush was weak from the year before. They were the only team that was so aggressive in FA, scoring all the top notch talent. Neil Smith, Keith Traylor, Ray Crockett (a year earlier, but it allowed them to keep him), Darien Gordon as STs Ace from SD, etc, etc. Go back and look at who they signed as FAs and then connect that to what Bowlen did 2 years in a row by falsifying the pay outs to Elway and Terrell Davis. How is that, something clearly deceitful, no other teams did nor were/are allowed to do under the rules, not far WORSE than NE legally filming their games just as all 31 other teams do?????? Care to answer that one, Schlereth?I could not believe this pretty boy phony (Schlereth) would sit there and basically lie and bordering on creating himself a libel or slanderous lawsuit, on live tv. Could not believe it. As for Carter, well, he ain't very bright. And we know Porter is as dumb as a bag of rocks and embarrassed his cocky Steelers teams overlooked NE. Again. I still can't believe Kraft bit his tongue as long he did.  Greatest witch hunt we'll ever see or have seen in the history of the sports world.
    Posted by russgriswold


    All good Points that I can't dispute..There is a reason why Schlereth's nickname is "STINK". They could have also tagged him with Filth or scum and it would have fit. Ask any Opposing D lineman what kind of a game Mark Schlereth played and they'll tell you filthy, chop blocking and crack backing. Maybe he was trying to cleanse his soul by demonizing us. As far as Kraft goes, he's a better man than I. It's truly all business to him and he just focused on the big picture.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Exactly Killa, you hit the nail right on the head. He's said the Pats had the better D, the better kicker, the better QB, the better playoff record, and the better coach so we can finally put that to bed.

    Now, (correct me if I'm wrong doggggg) but I think he's now saying that if the roles were reversed Manning would have been the better QB.

    I don't agree with that either but after a year of going back and forth with him I'm satisfied we got him to admit that much. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Sam - how'd brady make the defense better?  How'd he make Viniateri better?  I don't buy that he made any of these guys better. By being a great leader, just because he's not out there with these guys doesn't mean he doesn't impact them. They see how he carries himself and how he gives evrything he can and hows he's the first one to the endzone to celebrate a TD with his reciever and give him a high five. It's the little things that add up to something big.  And I'm not blaming Manning for the losses just the same as I'm not giving him credit for the wins. It's a team effort and maybe one of the big differences between them is Brady is just a better overall on the field team leader who inspires his team mates to do better.
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Underdogged will say the defense miraculously turned the corner instead of the real answer that Brady made the team better.  He made the defense better by leading a 5-11 team to a 11-5 record, He did this by converting 1st downs on a more consistent basis then Bledsoe had in a long time. When the defense gets more rest(especially that particular veteran defense) then they perform better. When did we start discussing football with underdogged again?? I was only on 1 week vaca??? 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Underdogged will say the defense miraculously turned the corner instead of the real answer that Brady made the team better.  He made the defense better by leading a 5-11 team to a 11-5 record, He did this by converting 1st downs on a more consistent basis then Bledsoe had in a long time. When the defense gets more rest(especially that particular veteran defense) then they perform better. When did we start discussing football with underdogged again?? I was only on 1 week vaca??? 
    Posted by TrueChamp


    TC, welcome back. I hope the vacation was awesome.

    Anyway, you need to go back through this one and see doggggg admitting Brady is better. I never thought I'd see it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    Exactly Killa, you hit the nail right on the head. He's said the Pats had the better D, the better kicker, the better QB, the better playoff record, and the better coach so we can finally put that to bed. Now, (correct me if I'm wrong doggggg) but I think he's now saying that if the roles were reversed Manning would have been the better QB. I don't agree with that either but after a year of going back and forth with him I'm satisfied we got him to admit that much. 
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    The point of the video was not what anyone in Indy thinks. It was past players who have played against both QB's saying hands down, Brady is the better, more clutch player and Manning is a choke they do not fear, Period.

    All the bull anyone brings up of the team around Brady is just verbal garbage with no tie to the video and the comments made about both QB's by fellow players.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

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    Ok so what Underdogg is saying is that we should be saying "Brady is better then Manning" because Brady had help winning those titles and I guess in underdoggs eyes Manning did it all by himself I dont know but what we should be saying according to Underdog is that the Patriots are the better team then the Colts. I already know that you agree with this statement Underdogg by reading your arguments the last two days so don't try and backpedal now. So in conclusion with help from Underdogg The Pats are better then the Colts and have been for the last ten years. right Underdogg?
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

    The pats were the overall better team.  Unless of course, the taping really did help.  But assuming that it did not, they were better.  Not in the last few years, but the early half of the decade, yes.  

    I would have loved to seen how the colts could have done had the pats dbs not been given a free pass by the refs to do whatever they wanted to the colts receivers in 03, but I don't blame the pats for that.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : The point of the video was not what anyone in Indy thinks. It was past players who have played against both QB's saying hands down, Brady is the better, more clutch player and Manning is a choke they do not fear, Period. All the bull anyone brings up of the team around Brady is just verbal garbage with no tie to the video and the comments made about both QB's by fellow players.
    Posted by gmbill


    hmmm.  Here's a poll done last year that included hall of famers, past and present probowlers, execs and coaches, and what did they say? 

    Read for yourself:

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-09/sporting-news-nfl-top-100-peyton-manning-no-1-on-our-experts-list
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Here's probably the best comparison you can make and I've made this post before. Tom Brady 2001-2007, 2009 (first 8 seasons) vs Peyton Manning 1998-2005 (first 8 seasons).

    Regular Season
                   W-L    TD-INT  YRDS  Passer-Rating
    Brady       97-30  225-99   30838    93.3
    Manning    80-47  244-130 33189    94.2

    Playoffs
                   W-L   TD-INT  YRDS   Passer-Rating
    Brady       14-4    27-15   4108      85.5  
    Manning     3-6    15-8     2462      82.8


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ipats. Show ipats's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : hmmm.  Here's a poll done last year that included hall of famers, past and present probowlers, execs and coaches, and what did they say?  Read for yourself: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-09/sporting-news-nfl-top-100-peyton-manning-no-1-on-our-experts-list
    Posted by underdoggggg


    In that poll Brady had 15 more first place votes than Peyton.  So for him to come in second, that means a lot of people had to vote Brady lower than 1 or 2. Not sure how that happens other than sour grapes or guys like Art Donovan who played with leather helmets*.

    *Art Donovan is awesome.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : hmmm.  Here's a poll done last year that included hall of famers, past and present probowlers, execs and coaches, and what did they say?  Read for yourself: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-09/sporting-news-nfl-top-100-peyton-manning-no-1-on-our-experts-list
    Posted by underdoggggg

    "Brady finished second despite piling up the most first-place votes — 50 to Manning's 35."
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    Sam - should be a game.  First time back in Foxboro in 3 years.  The colts are no world beaters. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : "Brady finished second despite piling up the most first-place votes — 50 to Manning's 35." Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-09/sporting-news-nfl-top-100-peyton-manning-no-1-on-our-experts-list#ixzz0uTkkLspi And that was before Manning's SB performance where he was expected to win.
    Posted by shenanigan


    And before Brady's 09 playoff performance. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!  This is officially the 10 billionth message board thread debating the relative merits of Manning vs. Brady!  But I'm sure this particular discussion is special in some way...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    If only because the 9,999,999,999 other threads could not resolve it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : Doggggg, we can back and forth with this forever but we all know the truth about the past. Now let's see what happens this year. I can't wait wait until 11/21 @4:15pm
    Posted by Sam-Adams



    I was checking that out on the schedule too and thinking," I hope this isn't one of those games that gets moved up to the Sunday night game"
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    The ribs were hurt in the preseason so the ribs should have been healed.  No idea about the finger. 

    As for Manning - he played an entire season in 08 after 2 knee surgeries, the second one around August 1.  He missed training camp and the entire preseason, continued to rehab throughout the season and still won the MVP. 

    There you have it. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    The ribs were hurt in the preseason so the ribs should have been healed.  No idea about the finger.  As for Manning - he played an entire season in 08 after 2 knee surgeries, the second one around August 1.  He missed training camp and the entire preseason, continued to rehab throughout the season and still won the MVP.  There you have it. 
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Actually he broke(or re-broke) his ribs in the Dolphins game in Miami. I know because I was there and I heard his ribs crack all the way up in the nose bleeds. Plus when he walked off the field he was carrying 3 of his ribs in his left hand underneath his helmet so nobody could see them....He didn't want to come out of the game.....but I saw what happened. No seriously that was the game where he was injured again and BB appropriately denied the injury. His next two games reflected the injury with 300 yards passing combined against 2 of the worst defense's in the game.

    I don't know why I felt like clearing that up with somebody who cannot engage in a normal conversation but your welcome.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once!:
    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning? ESPN nails it for once! : They can't, they play that next Thursday in Detroit at 12:30p. I was looking at the schedule thinking we'd have a rest advantage for the Jets game 12/6 but the Jets play Cincy on T-Day so the Jets and the Pats will have 10 days rest going into the game at the Razor.
    Posted by Sam-Adams



    Things are shaping up good this season for the schedule. I hate the late games.
    Thanks Giving is going to be a tough decision on the food to beer ratio this year. I think I'm going to drink early and eat late.
     
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