Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

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    Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    I know this is a little late to the party. But I started this on another thread. Then I realized I was hijacking. So I started my own.

    I just read that Jeff Saturday signed with the Packers. A lot of people said it was a done deal that he would join Manning in Denver. So much for loyalty.

    Then again, what has Peyton ever done to deserve loyalty? The more time passes, the more we are learning about what a primadonna and a phony Payton Manning is and always has been. I never liked the guy. But there was always a small part of me that respected himas a player. After that free agency debacle- the shred of respect I had for him is gone

    Is he supremely talented at throwing the football? Yes. Even though he has been coddled his whole career and played in essentially one system and had an entire team molded around his needs. I still would say he is an excellent passer. But an elite QB? A great player. No, I don't think so. Not anymore.

    I have been pretty consistent with critical views on Brady's game- the gunslinger mentality he's had since 07 that I think is hurting this team. I don't think he's as good as he was early in his career. But I can't even begin to imagine Brady late in his career being a free agent and passing on a team with a top 3 defense and two good receivers one being a Hall of Fame player. A team that is a legit title contender and would be the hands down favorite with him joining. To go play on a team that has no shot at a title. So he can be comfortable.

    Manning has proven once and for all that he doesn't deserve legend status. That's reserved for guys like Montanna, Jordan, Bird and even Brady early in his career. Guys that not only rise to the occasion when it matters most, but have an overwhelming desire to win and to be the best.

    Peyton Manning is just another good QB. They are a dime a dozen.

    Maybe Jeff Saturday just wanted to play with a QB that was a leader. One that would man up and take responsibility after a tough loss instead of throwing him under the bus.

    I think the fact that Saturday is in Green Bay and not Denver speaks volumes about the kind of leader and teammate Peyton Manning really is.

    Either way, this Manning/Brady debate is over. 
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    If Saturday and Wayne had both followed him it would have said more about the player Manning is... they didn't want to be his teammates anymore, so that speaks volumes
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    I don't know if you can draw conclusions from where Saturday and Wayne went.  There are a lot of factors that could be influencing their decisions.  

    As far as the debate about who the better QB is or who is or isn't an all-time great, that's a fun way for sports fans to waste time, but I don't think it's possible to ever settle the issue . . . .  There's no doubt that Manning is a Hall of Famer, though, who performed well above the level of most QBs during his era.  To me, that's about as much as you can say.  Same is true of Brady.  Who's better?  Well, debate on . . . you can argue endlessly because there never will be a conclusion all will agree on . . .


     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.


     
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    I draw the same conclusion, different reasons.  Here is a guy who basically stole 28 million last year, just stole another 19.  He's all about getting paid whether he is playing or not.  If he cared about the club, he would have restructured last year when he realized he couldn't play and given them back the money.  He does NOT care.  He shouldn't have gotten a DIME before playing this year either, but some teams are just dumb.  He has always been about the cash.  Brady did get paid, but he is way more reasonable, and thinking of team and success too. They are NOT at the same level.  Championships per dollar, playoff games per dollar, wins per dollar, Brady is tops.  
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    I hate Payton as much as the next guy, however, if I am playing for my final contract I try to get as much money as possible. That applies to Wayne, Saturday, and Manning as well as Welker. I seldom fault a guy who wants to make money in the NFL because, for most, it is a short career. I doubt Manning would take money off his $19m salary to sign players that improve the team. And that is saying something.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    You know what's funny?

    I always hated Peyton Manning when he was a legitimte rival and there was a lively and open debate about who you would rather have as your quarterback, and now that he's gleefully scooping up all the cash he can with absolutely no concern for his legacy and nobody even knows if the guy can play anymore . . .  I've actually found a modicum of respect for the squeamy little deusche.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]I don't know if you can draw conclusions from where Saturday and Wayne went.  There are a lot of factors that could be influencing their decisions.   As far as the debate about who the better QB is or who is or isn't an all-time great, that's a fun way for sports fans to waste time, but I don't think it's possible to ever settle the issue . . . .  There's no doubt that Manning is a Hall of Famer, though, who performed well above the level of most QBs during his era.  To me, that's about as much as you can say.  Same is true of Brady.  Who's better?  Well, debate on . . . you can argue endlessly because there never will be a conclusion all will agree on .

    True, There will never be agreement as to who is best. Both have contributed stongly to the legacy of the game and I applaud both for many great moments. Personally, I prefer Tom. He has had to work harder and overcome more to get where he is and I respect that.   
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]I hate Payton as much as the next guy, however, if I am playing for my final contract I try to get as much money as possible. That applies to Wayne, Saturday, and Manning as well as Welker. I seldom fault a guy who wants to make money in the NFL because, for most, it is a short career. I doubt Manning would take money off his $19m salary to sign players that improve the team. And that is saying something.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    I would normally agree with this train of thought. But Peyton has to have made somewhere in the neighborhood of half a billion dollars in his career between all the endorsements, the never-ending avalanche of commercials we've been subjected to and the inflated NFL contracts.

    Peyton Manning is in a place financially where money should have almost no influence on his professional decisions. And even if it did, the rumor is that all the offers were basically equal. And even if they weren't, so what? Let's say SanFran offered him "just" 75 million over four years. That's am extra 20 million in Denver. Probably under 9 million bucks in Manning's pocket after the IRS gets done stealing their share. With Manning's net worth, I don't think money had anything to with it. If it did, he's insane.

    Manning chose comfort over winning. That speaks volumes about his character. He is a loser, through and through. Do you think it was an accident that Manning's teams always came up short in the playoffs, even thought they were loaded offensively? Or the fact that Peyton's contract never allowed them to put together a D capable of winning a Superbowl. 2006 was a fluke. The D was on a roll. But they beat a sick NE team that ran out of gas, and then, Rex Grossman. How about the fact that Peyton NEVER had a competent backup his entire career? I never gave it much thought. But rumors are coming out now that it was Peyton's call.

    All I'm saying is that you can't put someone in Brady's league when they have consistently proven that they are not a leader and that winning isn't important to them. Brady has gained clear separation from Manning this offseason. And in my opinion, that's not debateable.

    Everyone is forgetting how mediocre Manning looked in 2010 when his line and receiving corp were a little b anged up. Manning has had the perfect storm for over a decade as far as stability and talent around him. Few QBs wouldn't have had his level of success in that system. And I think many would have surpassed it. Meanwhile Brady was winning titles with David Givens, Jermaine Wiggins and assorted JAGS.

    Comparing Brady to Manning would be stupid now, knowing how both of them tick as professional athletes. That's all I'm saying.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    P.S.

    Can I also just add how refreshing it is to be able to mention Manning without having that little weasel Underdog show up.

    Just an added benefit to the Colts being gutted.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : yeah like a pats fan saying ANYTHING about peyton manning matters or has any credibility...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Are you implying then that ANYTHING a giants fan says about any Patriots player or coach has absolutely no credibility? Sure sounds like it...

    ...and that's not to suggest I even agree with anything he said. I have no opinion on Peyton other than he is one of the best QB's to play the game.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : yeah like a pats fan saying ANYTHING about peyton manning matters or has any credibility...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    But this is a "Pats fan" forum dude. You may have noticed on your way in?
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    I know this is a little late to the party. But I started this on another thread. Then I realized I was hijacking. So I started my own. I just read that Jeff Saturday signed with the Packers. A lot of people said it was a done deal that he would join Manning in Denver. So much for loyalty. Then again, what has Peyton ever done to deserve loyalty? The more time passes, the more we are learning about what a primadonna and a phony Payton Manning is and always has been. I never liked the guy. But there was always a small part of me that respected himas a player. After that free agency debacle- the shred of respect I had for him is gone Is he supremely talented at throwing the football? Yes. Even though he has been coddled his whole career and played in essentially one system and had an entire team molded around his needs. I still would say he is an excellent passer. But an elite QB? A great player. No, I don't think so. Not anymore. I have been pretty consistent with critical views on Brady's game- the gunslinger mentality he's had since 07 that I think is hurting this team. I don't think he's as good as he was early in his career. But I can't even begin to imagine Brady late in his career being a free agent and passing on a team with a top 3 defense and two good receivers one being a Hall of Fame player. A team that is a legit title contender and would be the hands down favorite with him joining. To go play on a team that has no shot at a title. So he can be comfortable. Manning has proven once and for all that he doesn't deserve legend status. That's reserved for guys like Montanna, Jordan, Bird and even Brady early in his career. Guys that not only rise to the occasion when it matters most, but have an overwhelming desire to win and to be the best. Peyton Manning is just another good QB. They are a dime a dozen. Maybe Jeff Saturday just wanted to play with a QB that was a leader. One that would man up and take responsibility after a tough loss instead of throwing him under the bus. I think the fact that Saturday is in Green Bay and not Denver speaks volumes about the kind of leader and teammate Peyton Manning really is. Either way, this Manning/Brady debate is over. 
    Posted by df5


    This is nonsense. Manning is still one of the best QBs and deserves legend status.

    The Saturday thing, Manning was the first person that Saturday called after making the decision on GB, according to reports. His reason was that the Packers clearly wanted him more, and that DEN only wanted him because of Manning. Manning said one bad thing about the oline, and a million of great things about everyone else. Your argument is so one-sided.

    About passing on SF...You're blaming him for choosing an environment that he's comfortable with? There are plenty of players who chose to go after the money and play in situations they weren't exactly comfortable with...many of them struggled. Working in an environment youre comfortable with is important in any occupation.

    And I think the Broncos chances at the title are as good as the 49ers. I don't think theyre better, but the NFC is clearly much stronger than the AFC.

    The fact that Saturday and Wayne did not follow him into Indy, or that he made a negative comment about his oline in one game out of 227 makes him a phony.

    He carried that franchise throughout his time there. Without him, they wouldve been like the Browns, Bills and other bottom dweller teams.

    Manning and Brady are both in the same class, and should/will be argued as Top 5 QBS of all time
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : yeah like a pats fan saying ANYTHING about peyton manning matters or has any credibility...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Come on Jints...........
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : [QUOTE]I don't know if you can draw conclusions from where Saturday and Wayne went.  There are a lot of factors that could be influencing their decisions.   As far as the debate about who the better QB is or who is or isn't an all-time great, that's a fun way for sports fans to waste time, but I don't think it's possible to ever settle the issue . . . .  There's no doubt that Manning is a Hall of Famer, though, who performed well above the level of most QBs during his era.  To me, that's about as much as you can say.  Same is true of Brady.  Who's better?  Well, debate on . . . you can argue endlessly because there never will be a conclusion all will agree on . True, There will never be agreement as to who is best. Both have contributed stongly to the legacy of the game and I applaud both for many great moments. Personally, I prefer Tom. He has had to work harder and overcome more to get where he is and I respect that.   
    Posted by NYC[/QUOTE]


    I prefer Tom too.  But I see no reason to hate Manning either.  

     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : This is nonsense. Manning is still one of the best QBs and deserves legend status. The Saturday thing, Manning was the first person that Saturday called after making the decision on GB, according to reports. His reason was that the Packers clearly wanted him more, and that DEN only wanted him because of Manning. Manning said one bad thing about the oline, and a million of great things about everyone else. Your argument is so one-sided. About passing on SF...You're blaming him for choosing an environment that he's comfortable with? There are plenty of players who chose to go after the money and play in situations they weren't exactly comfortable with...many of them struggled. Working in an environment youre comfortable with is important in any occupation. And I think the Broncos chances at the title are as good as the 49ers. I don't think theyre better, but the NFC is clearly much stronger than the AFC. The fact that Saturday and Wayne did not follow him into Indy, or that he made a negative comment about his oline in one game out of 227 makes him a phony. He carried that franchise throughout his time there. Without him, they wouldve been like the Browns, Bills and other bottom dweller teams. Manning and Brady are both in the same class, and should/will be argued as Top 5 QBS of all time
    Posted by dapats1281[/QUOTE]

    I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Maybe Saturday and Wayne signing elsewhere had nothing to do with them not wanting to play with Manning again. To me, it's just one piece of a bigger picture. But it's an assumption on my part and I could be wrong.

    But the fact that he's in Denver and not San Francisco tells me a lot about what kind of person he is. No offense, but some of the rationalizations you are employing sounds exactly like something that would come from UD.

    First of all, SF has a top 3 defense, maybe the best in the league. They have excellent special teams. They are well coached.They have a rushing attack that ranked 8th in the league. They have a great young WR and they just added one who is headed to The Hall of Fame. Reports are that Moss is in great shape. And the last time he was this motivated and hungry he set the regular season TD record. With a healthy Manning, that team would have been a juggernaut and the favorite to win the title. They were within two boneheaded plays from appearing in the Superbowl last year. And that was with first round bust Alex Smith! And no Moss.

    Again, no offense but to compare the 49ers and Broncos chances with Manning is completely insane. Even with a healthy Manning the Broncos aren't getting anywhere near the Superbowl. Even all the "experts" who love hyperbole aren't picking them to do anything.

    Secondly, I don't know why any Pats fan would choose to marginalize an NFL QB, supposedly a great one, throwing his teammates under the bus after a tough loss. Especially after seeing how Brady and this organization has handled themselves. Using your logic I could go rape someone or shoot a guy in an armed robbery and It would have no bearing on how people judge my character. As long as I only did it once. That's crazy! It was disgusting. No matter how many times he did it.

    What you don't seem to get is that "one moment" was a window into a man's soul. It's a weakness that Brady doesn't have. Manning did what losers do, And this isn't limited to sports- it happens in all walks of life. People who are mentally weak  make excuses and blame their failures on other people. You have NEVER seen Brady do that and you never will. He's not soft. He has a drive that golden boy Mannning will never have. And it's not surprising considering where they both came from.

    Manning is not in Brady's class. It took a while to shake out but he proved it by signing with Denver. If you can't understand that I feel bad for you.
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all. : I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Maybe Saturday and Wayne signing elsewhere had nothing to do with them not wanting to play with Manning again. To me, it's just one piece of a bigger picture. But it's an assumption on my part and I could be wrong. But the fact that he's in Denver and not San Francisco tells me a lot about what kind of person he is. No offense, but some of the rationalizations you are employing sounds exactly like something that would come from UD. First of all, SF has a top 3 defense, maybe the best in the league. They have excellent special teams. They are well coached.They have a rushing attack that ranked 8th in the league. They have a great young WR and they just added one who is headed to The Hall of Fame. Reports are that Moss is in great shape. And the last time he was this motivated and hungry he set the regular season TD record. With a healthy Manning, that team would have been a juggernaut and the favorite to win the title. They were within two boneheaded plays from appearing in the Superbowl last year. And that was with first round bust Alex Smith! And no Moss. Again, no offense but to compare the 49ers and Broncos chances with Manning is completely insane. Even with a healthy Manning the Broncos aren't getting anywhere near the Superbowl. Even all the "experts" who love hyperbole aren't picking them to do anything. Secondly, I don't know why any Pats fan would choose to marginalize an NFL QB, supposedly a great one, throwing his teammates under the bus after a tough loss. Especially after seeing how Brady and this organization has handled themselves. Using your logic I could go rape someone or shoot a guy in an armed robbery and It would have no bearing on how people judge my character. As long as I only did it once. That's crazy! It was disgusting. No matter how many times he did it. What you don't seem to get is that "one moment" was a window into a man's soul. It's a weakness that Brady doesn't have. Manning did what losers do, And this isn't limited to sports- it happens in all walks of life. People who are mentally weak  make excuses and blame their failures on other people. You have NEVER seen Brady do that and you never will. He's not soft. He has a drive that golden boy Mannning will never have. And it's not surprising considering where they both came from. Manning is not in Brady's class. It took a while to shake out but he proved it by signing with Denver. If you can't understand that I feel bad for you.
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]Brady and Manning are both all -time greats neither one of them can win without D.(LOSER you mean the 4 time MVP and superbowl winner WOW)
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    In Response to Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.:
    [QUOTE]I know this is a little late to the party. But I started this on another thread. Then I realized I was hijacking. So I started my own. I just read that Jeff Saturday signed with the Packers. A lot of people said it was a done deal that he would join Manning in Denver. So much for loyalty. Then again, what has Peyton ever done to deserve loyalty? The more time passes, the more we are learning about what a primadonna and a phony Payton Manning is and always has been. I never liked the guy. But there was always a small part of me that respected himas a player. After that free agency debacle- the shred of respect I had for him is gone Is he supremely talented at throwing the football? Yes. Even though he has been coddled his whole career and played in essentially one system and had an entire team molded around his needs. I still would say he is an excellent passer. But an elite QB? A great player. No, I don't think so. Not anymore. I have been pretty consistent with critical views on Brady's game- the gunslinger mentality he's had since 07 that I think is hurting this team. I don't think he's as good as he was early in his career. But I can't even begin to imagine Brady late in his career being a free agent and passing on a team with a top 3 defense and two good receivers one being a Hall of Fame player. A team that is a legit title contender and would be the hands down favorite with him joining. To go play on a team that has no shot at a title. So he can be comfortable. Manning has proven once and for all that he doesn't deserve legend status. That's reserved for guys like Montanna, Jordan, Bird and even Brady early in his career. Guys that not only rise to the occasion when it matters most, but have an overwhelming desire to win and to be the best. Peyton Manning is just another good QB. They are a dime a dozen. Maybe Jeff Saturday just wanted to play with a QB that was a leader. One that would man up and take responsibility after a tough loss instead of throwing him under the bus. I think the fact that Saturday is in Green Bay and not Denver speaks volumes about the kind of leader and teammate Peyton Manning really is. Either way, this Manning/Brady debate is over. 
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]I have seen some pretty silly post over the years, but this is right up there.(A dime a dozen OMG)
     
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    Re: Brady or Manning. I think the offseason solved that question once and for all.

    I don't disrespect his decision one bit. He should go for the money. Why not? Would you? Maybe SF isn't as great as we think. Do you know who Peyton Manning replaced as QB when he was drafted by the Colts? When I cash my pay check every week I don't feel I'm gouging my company. I give them a good days work. this could be Manning's last payday. Wait till Brady's next contract. He's going to want a boat load. Thats like 2014 isn't it?
     

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