BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

     Heated discussion @ here lately ...

     It's like pickin' between your Mom or your Dad .

    Here's my 2 cents..

    1) Tom Brady is my favorite player .
     
    2) When he retires , the Pats will likely never have as good a player at Qb... ever ,  and the W's are going to get tougher to come by.

    3) Bill Belichick is a great coach and a flawed GM .

      I appreciate it that the fanbase here at BDC doesn't just line up , lock-step behind him and anoint him as infallible .
     He's not.
     He screws up.

    4) Bill Belichick is the worst GM in the NFL .

    5) With the exception of every other GM in the NFL .


       There are countless examples of BB 's uncanny ability to stock and restock this team while continuing to rack up W's .

      Tired ( but true ) examples:

     Paying a fairly steep price at the time ( 2nd & 7 ) for an unheralded wr named Welker , a RFA that no other GM wanted

      Acquiring a fading Randy Moss for a 4th ( Top 10 trade in NFL History )

     Seeing what no other Nfl GM saw in a scrawny ,  un-athletic Michigan Qb .
    ( The fact that the Pats passed on him multiple times is besides the point - they had Bledsoe entrenched , and could easily have put off drafting a Qb entirely )

     Seeing what no other GM saw in a bench warming USC Qb  , then sticking with him long enough to see him lead a deflated team to an 11 - 5 record .
    ( before turning him into a 2nd rounder )

     Having the stones to jettison a team leader ( but greedy ) Lawyer Milloy on the eve of a new season ( Pats win SB anyway )

    Dumping a deteriorating Richard Seymore and getting a #1 in return
    ( Which in turn becomes an inexpensive , likely starting LT Solder )

     PROOF THAT BB DOESN'T STANK AT DRAFTING :

    Cold , hard  , indisputable proof :

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3749_Decade_in_the_making%3A_the_ultimate_NFL_draft_grades.html

     
    When you factor into the equation that the Pats are ALWAYS assigned picks near the end of each round  , his track record is even more amazing.

     IMO  -
    Belichick could go back to the perpetually horrendous Cleveland Browns and lead them to a winning record in the brutal AFC North within 2 seasons ( and the playoffs within 3  )

     Tom Brady is a great NFL Qb .

     As great as there ever was in the NFL .

    There's no doubt that the Pats overall success is due in large part to his tenure  ... that's indisputable.

     Brady is the straw that stirs the drink...

    But BB is the glass , the ice , and the drink itself.

     When the time comes ... hopefully many  , many seasons from now , BB will find a new straw ...

    AND IT WILL DO IT'S JOB.

    And Bill Belichick will continue to guide the New England Patriots to W's , AFC East Titles , and Allah willin' ...Super Bowl Championships .

    Capt. F out.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    AMEN. I absolutely agree with this.

    I believe that as long as we have BB, we will be able to replace any player out there and keep winning. That includes Tom, who is also my favorite player of all time.

    BB will probably not get the team to win the same way, but he'll find a way.

    Football is a team sport - no one player is above the team.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    Seeing what no other Nfl GM saw in a scrawny ,  un-athletic Michigan Qb . ( The fact that the Pats passed on him multiple times is besides the point - they had Bledsoe entrenched , and easily could have put off drafting a Qb entirely )
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro



    It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round.

    Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    The simple truth is that Brady was not the only great pick BB has made. We also have the best record in the draft of any team out there (look at the original post's link). BB did as well as you could expect out of Brady the year he went down. He also has a history of doing well without Brady (the years he was on the Brown's they were an improving team and he has two rings as DC of the Giants). Will Brady be missed when he's no longer a Patriot? Absolutely. And I would not be one of those who advocates trading him as I would like him to retire as a Patriot, but if he was gone and we still had BB I would feel comfortable that we would remain a winning team and would be very capable Super Bowl contenders.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round. Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    All of what you said might be true and I have no reason to doubt you. I have never gone and dug into any of that.

    I guess the real question is did BB have GM final say powers back then? If he didn't then the not applicable would probably apply.

    If he did, however, sorry but you'de be wrong. It would be his watch, his credit, and therefore applicable. Even if Rehbein absolutely hounded him to no end BB(or who ever had final say) had to make the choice to finally accept and respect his subordinates opinions and pull that trigger.

    That makes it absolutely applicable, if he was the guy back then.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round. Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    To be fair that same documentation makes it clear that Rehbein was given a short list of QB's to look at by BB which included Brady.  Rehbein obviously played an important role, but he wasn't the only one by any means.

    I have never seen any documentation to suggest that Brady was slated to go anywhere near the 3rd round.  Most of the scouting reports I saw said he was too small and didn't have enough arm strength to be successful in the NFL.  I find it hard to believe those claims would be consistent with a 3rd round grade.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    Well . . .  if you're going to exclude late-round diamonds in the rough from any GM's resume, you may as well exclude the entire draft, because the whole thing is a crapshoot. For every Tom Brady there's a Vernon Gholston. People who have already made up their minds what they think of a particular GM will simply cherry pick their examples and say, "See!"

    As far as the importance of coaching over talent, I'm not sure I would agree that any player is "irreplaceable." I am not among those who like to use the Matt Cassel example to prove that it's "the system" and not Tom Brady, but marginal quarterbacks can and do win the Super Bowl. The uncannily consistent general success of the franchise in the Belichik era -- with a revolving cast of characters comprising the team -- suggests to me that, Tom Brady or no Tom Brady, the New England Patriots are not the team everybody else loves to hate with anyone else but Belichick as Gepetto.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round. Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
    Posted by BabeParilli



    Brady was NOT luck, this is what BB does.  He goes for the intangibles, he lets a 6th round pick move up from 3rd on the roster to 2nd, then has the stones to stick with him AGAINST prevailing wisdom.  I remember that deal, it was ugly in the media.  Brady was a typical BB pick.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : Brady was NOT luck, this is what BB does.  He goes for the intangibles, he lets a 6th round pick move up from 3rd on the roster to 2nd, then has the stones to stick with him AGAINST prevailing wisdom.  I remember that deal, it was ugly in the media.  Brady was a typical BB pick.  
    Posted by Davedsone


    Not luck? How many other Hall of Famers has he found in the 6th round?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    The simple truth is that Brady was not the only great pick BB has made. We also have the best record in the draft of any team out there (look at the original post's link). BB did as well as you could expect out of Brady the year he went down. He also has a history of doing well without Brady (the years he was on the Brown's they were an improving team and he has two rings as DC of the Giants). Will Brady be missed when he's no longer a Patriot? Absolutely. And I would not be one of those who advocates trading him as I would like him to retire as a Patriot, but if he was gone and we still had BB I would feel comfortable that we would remain a winning team and would be very capable Super Bowl contenders.
    Posted by timesedge


    I have refuted this CHFF anal draft rating a number of times now. It is pure amateur BS.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    The simple truth is that Brady was not the only great pick BB has made. We also have the best record in the draft of any team out there (look at the original post's link). BB did as well as you could expect out of Brady the year he went down. He also has a history of doing well without Brady (the years he was on the Brown's they were an improving team and he has two rings as DC of the Giants). Will Brady be missed when he's no longer a Patriot? Absolutely. And I would not be one of those who advocates trading him as I would like him to retire as a Patriot, but if he was gone and we still had BB I would feel comfortable that we would remain a winning team and would be very capable Super Bowl contenders.
    Posted by timesedge


    I have also refuted the 11-5 season claims over and over and over again. Not that it put much of a dent in the thinking of those who want to spin something to fit their concepts.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : I have refuted this CHFF anal draft rating a number of times now. It is pure amateur BS.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Pure amateur BS ...eh ?

    Unlike the stuff that the PROFESSIONAL WRITERS GUILD OF AMERICA regularly contributes here on these BDC threads ?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    I don't get this debate. Our HOF quarterback versus our HOF coach. This forum sux now.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    Name another QB or coach you'd rather want?????
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from goosedaddy. Show goosedaddy's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

      Brady is the reason we've done all the great things during this run. BB is very lucky to have gotten Brady where he did and another coach had to talk him into it. Brady has the intangibles that alot of people just don't have. I think it's his unique upbringing, from a great family, doted on as the only guy with older sisters. Encouraged all of his life and he simply always believed he could do anything. Others may have had the physical skills, but Brady has the psychological makeup that makes a person a winner. BB on the other hand is very smart and disciplined, but the so-called defensive genius has had some of the worst defenses here with the Patriots that I've ever seen. If Brady had not fell into his lap, he'd have been fired probably in 02 or 03, and would be a coordinator somewhere in the league or maybe even in college by now
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

     goosedaddy

     Appreciate the input but ...

     I have to admit I agree with CaptainZdeno33's assessment more than yours.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    The drafting of Brady may be somewhat lucky but as another poster said, the fact that he ever became the starter is pure Belichick.  On most other teams, Brady might not have ever gotten a chance.  Belichick had the intelligence and the stones to recognize Brady's greatest assets- intelligence and leadership, and keep him as a fourth quarterback his rookie year, then promote him all the way up during his second year.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round. Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
    Posted by BabeParilli


         What nonsense! Of course it's applicable! You say that Brady was expected to go in the 3rd round. Well...no one took him in the 3rd round, 4th round, or 5th. But BB took him in the 6th. What difference does it make why he took him? The bottom line is that he did. In the documentary "The Brady 6", six other QBs were drafted ahead of him. If the Chargers wanted him so badly, why didn't they pull the trigger?
     
         You continue to stubbornly refuse to give BB his due as a GM. Yes...he's made some mistakes. There's an element of luck in every pick made. Selecting Tom Brady with the 199th pick in 2000 was an undeniable franchise maker, for which BB must be credited for...just as he is blamed for not being so lucky with Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Laurence Maroney, and Brandon Meriweather: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NFL_Draft  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    The drafting of Brady may be somewhat lucky but as another poster said, the fact that he ever became the starter is pure Belichick.  On most other teams, Brady might not have ever gotten a chance.  Belichick had the intelligence and the stones to recognize Brady's greatest assets- intelligence and leadership, and keep him as a fourth quarterback his rookie year, then promote him all the way up during his second year.  
    Posted by pyegian


    Probably what makes him one of the best coaches of all time.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    BB not only took TB in the 6th, he also kept a 4th QB on the roster and decided to keep TB the QB for the Superbowl after DB came in the Pitt game in relief. There was a lot of outcry for DB to QB the Superbowl in 2001.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    The drafting of Brady may be somewhat lucky but as another poster said, the fact that he ever became the starter is pure Belichick.  On most other teams, Brady might not have ever gotten a chance.  Belichick had the intelligence and the stones to recognize Brady's greatest assets- intelligence and leadership, and keep him as a fourth quarterback his rookie year, then promote him all the way up during his second year.  
    Posted by pyegian

    TB became a starter because Bledsoe decided to introduce himself to Mr. Green on the Pats' sideline. That became the beginning of a legend. Let's not forget BB's winning % before TB. They are presently both at the top of their games and it would be difficult to choose one over the other in BB's prime.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : TB became a starter because Bledsoe decided to introduce himself to Mr. Green on the Pats' sideline. That became the beginning of a legend. Let's not forget BB's winning % before TB. They are presently both at the top of their games and it would be difficult to choose one over the other in BB's prime.
    Posted by GEAUX-TIGRES


    That's TB's prime. Sorry.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : I have also refuted the 11-5 season claims over and over and over again. Not that it put much of a dent in the thinking of those who want to spin something to fit their concepts.
    Posted by BabeParilli


         Yes...you refuted the 11-5 non-Brady season, in your own mind. But, you haven't convinced anyone else. That 2008 season was one of the finest coaching jobs ever. Look what happened to the Colts without Peyton.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable : It has been documented that QB coach Dick Rehbein pestered BB to draft Brady. And the Chargers were also interested in him. He was also expected to go as early as the 3rd round. Drafting Brady is considered the luckiest pick in NFL history. I understand the tendency to try to apply this to the body of BB's GM work, but it is not applicable.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    BB picked him. BB gets credit. You cannot cherry pick. BB was better than every other GM in picking him.

    If you could ONLY look at BB's mistakes you might be able to make a case. But that would be like saying you are only going to count TBs incompletions and interceptions! How totally rediculous. Pretty funny Babe!

    You can't make this stuff up. You just write your own jokes! Someone ought to tell Jon Stewart...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable

    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable:
    In Response to Re: BRADY vs. BELICHICK : Only 1 Is Irreplacable :      Yes...you refuted the 11-5 non-Brady season, in your own mind. But, you haven't convinced anyone else. That 2008 season was one of the finest coaching jobs ever . Look what happened to the Colts without Peyton.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Tex! What are you saying??? If Babe says he refuted the 11-5 non-Brady season who are you... who are any of us not to believe him?

    Babe, he did't mean it. Forgive him. He knows now what he does. Forgive him Babe... Baaaaaaaaabe......
     
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