Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    First and foremost, I don't like the Colts or Manning, and I never will, but it's truly sad to see Manning hurt like that. It hurts the league, hurts competition, nothing good comes from it.

    I enjoy the Brady/Manning banter and I've always felt that Brady doesn't get enough credit (because he's overshadowed by Belichick) and Manning gets too much credit because "holy cow Batman, Manning even calls his own plays at the line of scrimmage."

    Over the years, the argument has definitely taken turns. Brady initially was just a 'product of the system' and Manning was just spectacular. Then, Manning beat everyone besides the Patriots in the playoffs and quickly earned the stigma, "He can't win the big one." Manning broke Marino's record and won his only Super Bowl against a Bears team that basically handed it to them. Let's not even get into all the questionable calls in the 2006 AFC title game. Brady comes back with a re-tooled offense and runs off 18 straight game, leads the Patriots to the winning score, but loses the Super Bowl. Yet, Manning is still given the #1 nod. Brady comes in 2008, the favorite to win it all, with the same team and a weak schedule. Blows out his knee. Patriots go 11-5, get hot at the end, but fail to make the playoffs on technicalities. Manning gets to the Super Bowl in 2009, throws a pick-six to ice it for New Orleans. Brady has an epic year last year, breaking a few more records, and the conversation continues.

    I know Spygate and Belichick's treatment of the media affects Brady's perception. I also think from a psychological standpoint, Manning appeals more to the average American because he's from an all-American typical family, acts like a goofball on tv, and is a great football player. On the other hand, Brady dates supermodels, wears Uggs, and gels his hair back. Clearly, the masses can side with one guy and not the other.

    People don't give Brady enough credit because they feel Belichick is the brains behind the operation. I don't see Hoody making the throws so I don't buy that. Manning gets credit for calling his own plays and covering up for his team's flaws, but how's that anyone's fault that Colts' management has been handcuffed by Manning's big deals? Or how they haven't scouted or developed well enough? People diss the Patriots draft record but let's dive into Indy's for a second. I think Brady gets disrespected because of how well the Patriots draft, develop talent and manager their roster while Manning gets credit for covering up how weak the Colts are in those areas. I'd put the Colts in the upper third of teams that draft and develop well but I don't think it's on the Patriots level. I could be wrong, if the draft guys on this board chime in.

    If the Colts go 4-12 this year, does that enhance Manning's legacy even more while Brady remains just Belichick's creation? If Manning's career is truly over, and a lot of people are now coming out and telling him to call it quits with Howie Long being one of them, and Brady continues to put up ridiculous numbers, how does it pan out then?

    Sorry if some of you don't care to discuss this. I find it a fascinating argument.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duc749Rider. Show Duc749Rider's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    I want to read Mighty's take on this.  I respect his opinion the most.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    Well him missing a season won't really affects the stats. To me its a wash. Ane he'll be sitting in the suite watching the Partiots win the SB anyway.

    Sooner or later the Colts would not be able to pace with the Patriots. Losing Pouting shows how poorly they prepared for this day.

    When TB went down, Cassell had to step up and he did.

    Colts had to get a hired gun to fill in, instead of developing a young kid
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]Well him missing a season won't really affects the stats. To me its a wash. Ane he'll be sitting in the suite watching the Partiots win the SB anyway. Sooner or later the Colts would not be able to pace with the Patriots. Losing Pouting shows how poorly they prepared for this day. When TB went down, Cassell had to step up and he did. Colts had to get a hired gun to fill in, instead of developing a young kid
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Not to mention giving Manning about $25 million guaranteed after a neck procedure. Just bad business overall.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsrkillers. Show patsrkillers's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]First and foremost, I don't like the Colts or Manning, and I never will, but it's truly sad to see Manning hurt like that. It hurts the league, hurts competition, nothing good comes from it. I enjoy the Brady/Manning banter and I've always felt that Brady doesn't get enough credit (because he's overshadowed by Belichick) and Manning gets too much credit because "holy cow Batman, Manning even calls his own plays at the line of scrimmage." Over the years, the argument has definitely taken turns. Brady initially was just a 'product of the system' and Manning was just spectacular. Then, Manning beat everyone besides the Patriots in the playoffs and quickly earned the stigma, "He can't win the big one." Manning broke Marino's record and won his only Super Bowl against a Bears team that basically handed it to them. Let's not even get into all the questionable calls in the 2006 AFC title game. Brady comes back with a re-tooled offense and runs off 18 straight game, leads the Patriots to the winning score, but loses the Super Bowl. Yet, Manning is still given the #1 nod. Brady comes in 2008, the favorite to win it all, with the same team and a weak schedule. Blows out his knee. Patriots go 11-5, get hot at the end, but fail to make the playoffs on technicalities. Manning gets to the Super Bowl in 2009, throws a pick-six to ice it for New Orleans. Brady has an epic year last year, breaking a few more records, and the conversation continues. I know Spygate and Belichick's treatment of the media affects Brady's perception. I also think from a psychological standpoint, Manning appeals more to the average American because he's from an all-American typical family, acts like a goofball on tv, and is a great football player. On the other hand, Brady dates supermodels, wears Uggs, and gels his hair back. Clearly, the masses can side with one guy and not the other. People don't give Brady enough credit because they feel Belichick is the brains behind the operation. I don't see Hoody making the throws so I don't buy that. Manning gets credit for calling his own plays and covering up for his team's flaws, but how's that anyone's fault that Colts' management has been handcuffed by Manning's big deals? If the Colts go 4-12 this year, does that enhance Manning's legacy even more while Brady remains just Belichick's creation? If Manning's career is truly over, and a lot of people are now coming out and telling him to call it quits with Howie Long being one of them, and Brady continues to put up ridiculous numbers, how does it pan out then? Sorry if some of you don't care to discuss this. I find it a fascinating argument.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

       I have too say great post and IMO I think the debate will still go on for years cause there will be the dispute if manning didnt get hurt  like he did blah blah blah you know what I mean.Too us Pats fan we will say brady  cause of superbowls etc then you will have colt fans what if it will never end!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]I want to read Mighty's take on this.  I respect his opinion the most.
    Posted by Duc749Rider[/QUOTE]

    Brady 3, Manning 1; Brady 3 more, Manning - done; Patriots 19-0 this year.

    I love Mighty :)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    Will Brady's Super Bowls match up with Mannings' Stats as time goes by? I think if Tom can catch up statistically a little bit with Manning (if Manning misses a year) and win another Super Bowl, it won't matter that Brady had Belichick helping...I'm not sure if it matters that much historically right now. Truly, I think if Brady can win another Super Bowl he'll be (or should be) considered the best of all time. He'll have better stats than Montana and match him in Super Bowls and if he plays at a high level for another 4 years, he'll statistically be better than 90% of the QB's out there. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons? :   I love Mighty :)
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    yeah, he's cool. wonder what he thinks about his fanboy, though
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]Will Brady's Super Bowls match up with Mannings' Stats as time goes by? I think if Tom can catch up statistically a little bit with Manning (if Manning misses a year) and win another Super Bowl, it won't matter that Brady had Belichick helping...I'm not sure if it matters that much historically right now. Truly, I think if Brady can win another Super Bowl he'll be (or should be) considered the best of all time. He'll have better stats than Montana and match him in Super Bowls and if he plays at a high level for another 4 years, he'll statistically be better than 90% of the QB's out there. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I thought both of their stats are pretty close to this point, no? I also have these numbers, which may be a bit off by now as I got them last year:

    More Pro Bowlers on Manning's rosters
    Both have had one top-5 defense and 3 in the top 20's
    Both had three ranked 9th, 10th, 11th
    Brady's Super Bowl numbers are better than his regular season numbers and playoff numbers
    Manning's decline in the Super Bowl
    Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison, Samuel, Seymour, Moss gone.

    Brady has a better indoor QB rating: 103.1 vs. 99.5
    Brady has a better outdoor QB rating: 93.4 vs. 90.7

    Brady has a much better playoff record: 14-4 vs. 9-9.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    It doesn't.  Brady's got to play much much longer with a suspect defense and at some point play with an inept head coach. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]It doesn't.  Brady's got to play much much longer with a suspect defense and at some point play with an inept head coach. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    HAHA. Caldwell is terrible. I can't believe they handed over the reigns to that guy. What do you think of Polian?

    And I don't know if their defense is all that bad now. I mean, it's built around Manning. Get a 2-3 touchdown lead and attack the opposing QB with Freeney and Mathis.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    I think they're both good quarterbacks. I think it will be fair to say that both will go to the HOF for their respective strengths. Whether one is "better" than the other depends on what criteria one uses as a frame of reference.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    Great thread AP, I was just having the same discussion in my FF league. I said I wanted PM back for a few reasons. The same you mentioned above where no real sports fan would ever wish ill on the competition. It would be a horrible way to finish a great career.

    My next point was I didn't want anybody to be able to use this as an excuse for the Brady vs Manning debate. What better way to settle a discussion then by saying,"yeah but what if Manning could have played as long as Brady" or something to that affect.

    I personally think last year finalized the debate but I'm sure many would tell me I am biased(and they are right) so now you bring up a good point. What if the Colts go frigging 4-12 or worse. People will absolutely turn that in to a positive for Manning.

    I would argue that this Colts team has been built for Manning for his entire career and this is what would and will ultimately hurt them with his injury. If most of your 1st round draft investments have been for {Peytons disposal(WR,TE,RB,O-linemen) and then Peyton is gone....well then there lies the real problem.

     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    The two best Q.B.s of this era and arguably any era.  How can they be compared?  Stats?  SB wins?  I say forget the comparisons and applaud both for their huge success in a very hard game.

    Yeah I'm a PATS fan through and through but I can appreciate good play no matter who or what team it is.  Peyton Manning...  You've all watched him over the years, the years when we frustrated and beat him and the years when he beat us.  In between he was beating the hell out of every other team and doing it very impressively.  The guy has been a machine.

    Brady?  How may superlatives can we throw at this guy.  So many victories, just win, win, win, win and win some more.  Three Super Bowl rings in four trips to the big show.  When Tom is on, there is no one better, he always finds and hits the open guy.  This guy has also been a machine.

    They are both great and if PATS fans here can't bring themselves to say that, despite hating the guy because he's so good, they are exposed as nothing more than homers.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    The only stats that count to true fans of the NFL is the number of SB victories won by the QB's in question;

    Therefore,

    Brady - 3
    Crag Face No Neck - 1

    It's so obvious it's embarrassing to Dolts fans. But wait, it's a family affair too:

    Brady - 3
    Crag Face No Neck - 1
    Little Baby Eli - 1
    Daddy Redneck All Time Loser - 0

    It's so obvious it's embarrassing to fans of the Manning Clan...Brady 3, Crippled, Over Rated and Hapless Manning Clan 2.....

    Nuff said...end of debate...all else is meaningless.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    The difference is, Brady's a good QB, and Manning is not.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons? : HAHA. Caldwell is terrible. I can't believe they handed over the reigns to that guy. What do you think of Polian? And I don't know if their defense is all that bad now. I mean, it's built around Manning. Get a 2-3 touchdown lead and attack the opposing QB with Freeney and Mathis.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Polian is an as&.  That said, he is great (possibly one of the best ever) at what he does with one major flaw.  His flaw is that he doesn't like to admit his flaws. 

    there's been some handwringing over a some of his recent high draft picks that have not panned out, yet he has kept these players around.  Some think that Polian should admit they are busts and move on, but he won't.  I don't know if this is a completely fair characterization, but I also think that it is not without merit. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfitone. Show kjfitone's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    both guys are great, i'll take brady though.

     the colts will be lucky to win a game without manning, the patriots won 11 games without brady.. not that manning is better,  the colts are only build to play and win one way. when manning is gone the colts will suck for years where the patriots are built to compete every season. 


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    They won't ever get a two or three touchdown lead if Crag Face No Neck is out...far from it....they'll be playing catch up in every game he misses....then that small D will be ground to a fine powder and blown off the field in the second half of games, especially by running teams with big tackles...LOL...this will be fun to watch...Indy fans booing because they start loosing games at home in the second half as they watch helplessly as one game after another slips away......I'm so glad I get NFL RED ZONE so I won't miss a minute of ALL THOSE SCORES AGAINST INDY...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?

    In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady Vs. Manning: how does Manning's injury affect the comparisons? : Polian is an as&.  That said, he is great (possibly one of the best ever) at what he does with one major flaw.  His flaw is that he doesn't like to admit his flaws.  there's been some handwringing over a some of his recent high draft picks that have not panned out, yet he has kept these players around.  Some think that Polian should admit they are busts and move on, but he won't.  I don't know if this is a completely fair characterization, but I also think that it is not without merit. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    True. I believe he was the guy behind the Buffalo teams as well. Could be wrong. I think he'll really be exposed this year if Manning is out for a while though.
     
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