Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

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    Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Ok - so the mods dumped the game thread.  Ridiculous

    Here's a list of receivers of high draft status that brady has had to throw to (includes rbs)

    Rutledge 2nd
    Emanuel 2nd
    Glenn 1st
    Johnson 1st
    Edwards 2nd
    Redmond 3rd
    Smith 1st
    Cleeland 2nd
    Fauria 2nd
    Branch 2nd
    Stokes 1st
    Ward 3rd
    Cloud 2nd
    Zereoue 3rd
    Graham 1st
    Branch 2nd
    Davis 2nd
    Johnson 2nd
    dillon 2nd
    Caldwell 2nd
    Brady 1st
    Jackson 2nd
    Stallworth 1st
    Moss 1st
    Gaffney 2nd
    Thomas 3rd
    Watson 1st
    Faulk 2nd
    Jordan 2nd
    Maroney 1st
    Taylor 1st
    Baker 3rd
    Galloway 1st

    Seems like a big list of high draft picks. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    no takers here?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ET27. Show ET27's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    Ok - so the mods dumped the game thread.  Ridiculous Here's a list of receivers of high draft status that brady has had to throw to (includes rbs) Rutledge 2nd Emanuel 2nd Glenn 1st Johnson 1st Edwards 2nd Redmond 3rd Smith 1st Cleeland 2nd Fauria 2nd Branch 2nd Stokes 1st Ward 3rd Cloud 2nd Zereoue 3rd Graham 1st Branch 2nd Davis 2nd Johnson 2nd dillon 2nd Caldwell 2nd Brady 1st Jackson 2nd Stallworth 1st Moss 1st Gaffney 2nd Thomas 3rd Watson 1st Faulk 2nd Jordan 2nd Maroney 1st Taylor 1st Baker 3rd Galloway 1st Seems like a big list of high draft picks. 
    Posted by underdogg


    what's your point?  Are you saying he's had great receivers?  besides moss and faulk, they don't compare favorably with harrison, clark, james and wayne (all in their prime).  Regardless, brady is better than manning.  if you have any doubts, just look at their fingers. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    Ok - so the mods dumped the game thread.  Ridiculous Here's a list of receivers of high draft status that brady has had to throw to (includes rbs) Rutledge 2nd Emanuel 2nd Glenn 1st Johnson 1st Edwards 2nd Redmond 3rd Smith 1st Cleeland 2nd Fauria 2nd Branch 2nd Stokes 1st Ward 3rd Cloud 2nd Zereoue 3rd Graham 1st Branch 2nd Davis 2nd Johnson 2nd dillon 2nd Caldwell 2nd Brady 1st Jackson 2nd Stallworth 1st Moss 1st Gaffney 2nd Thomas 3rd Watson 1st Faulk 2nd Jordan 2nd Maroney 1st Taylor 1st Baker 3rd Galloway 1st Seems like a big list of high draft picks. 
    Posted by underdogg


    Does Peyton Manning know about your obsession with Tom Brady?  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    This whole thing got started on the colts game thread and has been brought up before that the pats haven't ever had good receivers. 

    The fact is that the pats seem to refuse to develop receivers.  They don't care about them.  The colts on the other hand have maintained continuity and developed offensive players over the years. 

    Clark has never been to a probowl. 
    Wayne took a few years to get good. 
    Gonzalez is developing but has yet to prove himself.
    Collie and Garcon are 4th and 6th round choices respectively who are developing. 
    Manning works very very very hard to help develop his receivers.  These guys aren't just automatics.  Look at the picks again.  Brady has had plenty of receivers.  A little patience and work would have been all that was needed.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ET27. Show ET27's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    This whole thing got started on the colts game thread and has been brought up before that the pats haven't ever had good receivers.  The fact is that the pats seem to refuse to develop receivers.  They don't care about them.  The colts on the other hand have maintained continuity and developed offensive players over the years.  Clark has never been to a probowl.  Wayne took a few years to get good.  Gonzalez is developing but has yet to prove himself. Collie and Garcon are 4th and 6th round choices respectively who are developing.  Manning works very very very hard to help develop his receivers.  These guys aren't just automatics.  Look at the picks again.  Brady has had plenty of receivers.  A little patience and work would have been all that was needed.
    Posted by underdogg


    your comment has merit;  however, the PATS receive high marks for OL's and DL's they've drafted in the first two rounds, but the same cannot be said for the RB's or WR's  they've drafted in the those rounds.  although clark has never been to a probowl, he is a great TE - no Clark, no Super Bowl.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    man, just the luxury of having harrison there for all those years allows you to do a lot of things. makes no sense to compare manning and brady this way since there are big differences in roster management between both teams.

    everyone agrees that manning is a great qb, it is a fact that brady didn't have great receivers most years.

    so, what's your point?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Dogg, I hear what you are saying, but Peyton has had better receivers by a good margin.  Draft status aside, the Pats just haven't had many good receivers until 2007.  I don't know if it's poor drafting, poor developing, etc.  

    As I've said before, both Manning and Brady are great QB's and first ballot HoF locks.  I guess arguing over who has better receivers and such gives us fans something to talk about, but I have no problem thinking they are both great and leaving it at that; except Brady is better because he's done more with less :^)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Go away underdog.  Booooooo!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Go back to Indy! Jabroney!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Just how valuable was that chemistry that Brady and Deon Branch had? I guess not enough to sign Branch before his contract expired. Same for Givens. At that time Brady and his Wrs were firing on all cylinders. Yes, he had his best year in 2007 but it is a shame we have to wait and watch for these new guys trey to get on the same page as Brady! I'd have to say that right about now Galloway is driving everybody nuts in New England including one Tom Brady! This is the reality of free agency.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Belenus555. Show Belenus555's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    This whole thing got started on the colts game thread and has been brought up before that the pats haven't ever had good receivers.  The fact is that the pats seem to refuse to develop receivers.  They don't care about them.  The colts on the other hand have maintained continuity and developed offensive players over the years.  Clark has never been to a probowl.  Wayne took a few years to get good.  Gonzalez is developing but has yet to prove himself. Collie and Garcon are 4th and 6th round choices respectively who are developing.  Manning works very very very hard to help develop his receivers.  These guys aren't just automatics.  Look at the picks again.  Brady has had plenty of receivers.  A little patience and work would have been all that was needed.
    Posted by underdogg


    u.d.

    Harrison - future HOF member; All-Pro multiple times
    Wayne - may have been #2 to Harrison for a while but has been a highly regarded WR and a star in his own right.
    Clark - I'm surprised that he has never been to the Pro Bowl, since he is one of the biggest clutch players in the entire league. You want to find out how well regarded he is: offer him as trade bait; I believe a lot of teams would express their interest including NE (IMHO).

    NOW: The Pats may have a slightly better group of receivers (in terms of credentials) as long as Welker and Moss are around. However, from what I saw of them last night - if they continue to play like that, the Colts' receivers group will be a major force by the end of this season and for years to come.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nuwriter. Show nuwriter's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    The starting wide receivers on the Patriots 2001 Super Bowl winning team.

    Troy Brown - 8th round -1994
    David Patten - Undrafted - 1996

    How many of the players on your list were drafted by the Patriots?

    Most of them came to the Patriots near the end of their careers, many of them had been released by other clubs. It also includes running backs and tight ends. Your list is very, very flawed.

    J.J. Stokes?
    Amos Zereoue? He caught exactly 0 passes in his short time with the Patriots. He did have seven carries for two yards. So there's that.
    Terry Glenn? Quit on the team during the Super Bowl winning season, caught all of 14 passes from Brady.

    Joey Galloway? 1st Round - 1995.

    Reche Caldwell?

    These are the superstar receivers that you're making your "case" with.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    I guess my point here is that in the manning brady discussion, I am frequently reminded of the allstar receivers that manning has had and brady has not had.  

    I pointed out that Brady has had a number of high draft choices at his disposal over the years.  Why they did not work out for the team, I cannot answer.  Were they not good, were they not developed, was it money?  Whatever the reason the pats have had plenty of highly drafted pass catcher just like the colts.  But that doesn't mean all of the colts pass catchers were high draft choices.  Regardless, the colts develop their receivers.

    Yes we know about these: 

    Harrison 
    Wayne 
    Clark
    James
    Addai
    Brown
    Gonzalez

    But Manning (since brady's first yr) has also thrown significantly to:

    Rhodes - udfa
    Utecht - udfa
    stokley - 4th (fa pick up by colts)
    Pollard - udfa
    Fletcher - 6th
    Moorehead - udfa
    Walters - 5th
    Mungro - udfa
    Wilkens - udfa
    Dilger - 2nd
    Garcon - 6th, Collie - 4th, Robinson - udfa; Santi 6th, Keith - udfa, Thorpe 4th, Aromashodu 7th, Williams - udfa, Davenport - udfa, Finn - udfa, Pathon - 2nd

    Most of these guys were either drafted by the colts or picked up their first year out of college as a udfa.  The colts developed them and kept most of them for multiple years. 

    I cannot speak to the pats way of doing things.  What I know is that other than Stokely, none of these guys came to the colts polished.  Harrison and James were fantastic out of college, but the rest were developed including Wayne and Clark and Gonzalez, etc.  

    If the colts pass catchers are good, its generally because the colts made them that way and Manning has a lot to do with that.  If that's not Brady's thing, that should not detract from the significance of what Manning has done to develop his receivers.  Brady has had a significant number of high draft picks to work with.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from deluxbury. Show deluxbury's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    This whole thing got started on the colts game thread and has been brought up before that the pats haven't ever had good receivers.  The fact is that the pats seem to refuse to develop receivers.  They don't care about them.  The colts on the other hand have maintained continuity and developed offensive players over the years.  Clark has never been to a probowl.  Wayne took a few years to get good.  Gonzalez is developing but has yet to prove himself. Collie and Garcon are 4th and 6th round choices respectively who are developing.  Manning works very very very hard to help develop his receivers.  These guys aren't just automatics.  Look at the picks again.  Brady has had plenty of receivers.  A little patience and work would have been all that was needed.
    Posted by underdogg


    Underdogg:  What are you talking about?  Do you remember the tandem of David Givens (7th round draft choice) and Dieon Branch (2nd round)?  They developed them and won a superbowl! 

    If their guilty of anything, it's the fact they didn't want to pay either of them to stick with the team. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : Underdogg:  What are you talking about?  Do you remember the tandem of David Givens (7th round draft choice) and Dieon Branch (2nd round)?  They developed them and won a superbowl!  If their guilty of anything, it's the fact they didn't want to pay either of them to stick with the team. 
    Posted by deluxbury

    ok - so why are people here complaining about the fact that Brady had no receivers?  In fact, if these guys were really ready to go as Rookies (you tell me), that makes them significantly better than the colts receivers.  Wayne, Gonzalez, Clark all took multiple years to develop and Gonzalez in his 3rd still isn't there.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikec645. Show mikec645's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    pointless thread 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    pointless thread 
    Posted by mikec645

    Why?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    Ok - so the mods dumped the game thread.  Ridiculous Here's a list of receivers of high draft status that brady has had to throw to (includes rbs) Rutledge 2nd Emanuel 2nd Glenn 1st Johnson 1st Edwards 2nd Redmond 3rd Smith 1st Cleeland 2nd Fauria 2nd Branch 2nd Stokes 1st Ward 3rd Cloud 2nd Zereoue 3rd Graham 1st Branch 2nd Davis 2nd Johnson 2nd dillon 2nd Caldwell 2nd Brady 1st Jackson 2nd Stallworth 1st Moss 1st Gaffney 2nd Thomas 3rd Watson 1st Faulk 2nd Jordan 2nd Maroney 1st Taylor 1st Baker 3rd Galloway 1st Seems like a big list of high draft picks. 
    Posted by underdogg

    You need to get a life, man.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sammykd. Show Sammykd's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    one more time....IndyStar is that way.  GO!! >>>>>>>>
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Somnambulus. Show Somnambulus's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    underdogg bases his argument on a flawed premise: that draft status equates to quality or consistency of play.  Were this a valid basis for the argument, then Jamarcus Russell would be just as good a player as Peyton Manning.  Furthermore, New England did not even draft, and thereby cannot be conceived of having not developed, many of the players listed. 

    Engaging this user only indulges his/her flawed logic.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikec645. Show mikec645's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : Why?
    Posted by underdogg


    I dunno you tell me why you made a thread with no point to it
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    ridiculous

    Manning has always had good receivers, a stable system and coaching staff. He has never overcome the obstacles that Tom Brady did. TB has made good receivers great, great receivers better and he gave a name to  cr ap receivers like caldwell. 

    Besides the fact that he has 3 superbowls and his own list of records Tom brady has overcome far more challenges than Peyton Manning. Is manning great.... yes he is!

    But I would rather have Tom Brady any day. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Somna - The only failed premise is those who like to use it to prove how much better off Manning has been due to his receivers than Brady.  I was simply pointing out that Brady, as well, has had is share of high draft choices to catch his balls. 

    The difference clearly is receiver development.  It appears that both Brady and the Pats have no use for this.  While Manning and the colts see it the other way.  My conclusion, thus, is that Brady and pats believe their pass catchers are as good as they need to be.  As good as the pats are, then, those pass catchers must be as good as the colts. 

    If not, then they should spend some time developing them like the colts do. 

    I agree draft status does not confer excellence.  Work ethic, practice, and study, on the other hand, usually do.  If the colts receivers are great, it is only because they worked at it and wanted to be.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Belenus555. Show Belenus555's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    I guess my point here is that in the manning brady discussion, I am frequently reminded of the allstar receivers that manning has had and brady has not had.   I pointed out that Brady has had a number of high draft choices at his disposal over the years.  Why they did not work out for the team, I cannot answer.  Were they not good, were they not developed, was it money?  Whatever the reason the pats have had plenty of highly drafted pass catcher just like the colts.  But that doesn't mean all of the colts pass catchers were high draft choices.  Regardless, the colts develop their receivers. Yes we know about these:  Harrison  Wayne  Clark James Addai Brown Gonzalez But Manning (since brady's first yr) has also thrown significantly to: Rhodes - udfa Utecht - udfa stokley - 4th (fa pick up by colts) Pollard - udfa Fletcher - 6th Moorehead - udfa Walters - 5th Mungro - udfa Wilkens - udfa Dilger - 2nd Garcon - 6th, Collie - 4th, Robinson - udfa; Santi 6th, Keith - udfa, Thorpe 4th, Aromashodu 7th, Williams - udfa, Davenport - udfa, Finn - udfa, Pathon - 2nd Most of these guys were either drafted by the colts or picked up their first year out of college as a udfa.  The colts developed them and kept most of them for multiple years.  I cannot speak to the pats way of doing things.  What I know is that other than Stokely, none of these guys came to the colts polished.  Harrison and James were fantastic out of college, but the rest were developed including Wayne and Clark and Gonzalez, etc.   If the colts pass catchers are good, its generally because the colts made them that way and Manning has a lot to do with that.  If that's not Brady's thing, that should not detract from the significance of what Manning has done to develop his receivers.  Brady has had a significant number of high draft picks to work with.
    Posted by underdogg


    u.d.
    Don't tell anyone in South Florida that Reggie Wayne was not a fantastic college player - yes, he played on an UM team that won the ncaa title in his senior season that had such future NFL standouts like Ed Reid, Santana Moss, and Andre Johnson. However, even being part of that lineup, Wayne did something that not even Moss or Johnson came close to: join Michael Irvin as the only receivers in school history to catch 20+ TD passes. A tremendous achievement considering the pro-style passing attack played by Miami since 1981 which tend to attract a lot of good receivers to the school.
     
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