Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    High picks yes, but can they lick oreos?




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]Ok - so the mods dumped the game thread.  Ridiculous Here's a list of receivers of high draft status that brady has had to throw to (includes rbs) Rutledge 2nd Emanuel 2nd Glenn 1st Johnson 1st Edwards 2nd Redmond 3rd Smith 1st Cleeland 2nd Fauria 2nd Branch 2nd Stokes 1st Ward 3rd Cloud 2nd Zereoue 3rd Graham 1st Branch 2nd Davis 2nd Johnson 2nd dillon 2nd Caldwell 2nd Brady 1st Jackson 2nd Stallworth 1st Moss 1st Gaffney 2nd Thomas 3rd Watson 1st Faulk 2nd Jordan 2nd Maroney 1st Taylor 1st Baker 3rd Galloway 1st Seems like a big list of high draft picks. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    This post makes no sense.  What is your point? 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Dogg, I have no problem saying that the Colts have done a better job of evaluating, drafting, and developing receivers.  The Colts clearly put a priority on giving Peyton the tools to work with from day 1 and did a good job doing just that.

    The Pats have had our moments of greatness (Brown, Branch), but all in all WR seems to be the one position that has given our organization fits under the current regime.  We "might" have turned things around this year and nailed a few.  All you have to do is look at our current roster at WR to see how good we are at drafting them.  All but one of them playing yesterday came from free agency.

    I do understand the point of your thread.  I am one of those Brady fans who believes he would have had Peyton stats all along if he had better receivers to work with.  You did some homework, and looked at the draft status of our WR's to make your point, but all it proved is that we have been terrible at evaluating, drafting, and developing WR's.  We hit gold a couple of times, but that's not very good over that timespan.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Rutledge 2nd - Played 1 season with Brady used mainly as a blocked TE
    Emanuel 2nd - Drafted in 94 played his last season with Brady only 4 rec
    Glenn 1st - Refused to play his only season with Brady 14 rec
    Johnson 1st - Yep very productive choice here
    Edwards 2nd - Injured never played with Brady
    Redmond 3rd - You're joking right?
    Smith 1st - End of his career but still highly productive, not a pass catching RB
    Cleeland 2nd  - 1 yr 16 rec never a good player
    Fauria 2nd - Very productive and used frequently but mainly a redzone and blocking TE
    Branch 2nd - Very productive only with Pats
    Stokes 1st - ROFL just fail, seriously fail
    Ward 3rd - 1 season with the Pats at the end of his career
    Cloud 2nd - more of a blocking RB never broke a 200yrd season
    Zereoue 3rd - why do I feel like I repeating myself end of career
    Graham 1st - more of a blocking TE then a pass catching TE, ask Denver
    Branch 2nd - So good you listed him twice?
    Davis 2nd - not even drafted by the Pats, never more then a 3rd wr
    Johnson 2nd - Yeah... you really want to list him on this high talent list?
    dillon 2nd - extremely productive again not a pass catching RB
    Caldwell 2nd - Best season of his career
    Brady 1st - in 95' last season of his career
    Jackson 2nd - Sigh see Johnson
    Stallworth 1st - came off a bad Philly season didn't show any better in NE
    Moss 1st - Ahh record breaking season that lead to superbowl appearence
    Gaffney 2nd - Outside of NE not that impressive
    Thomas 3rd - can still but hasn't panned out
    Watson 1st - Still productive
    Faulk 2nd - Finally a recieving RB
    Jordan 2nd - had 1 productive season in Oak but never a feature back
    Maroney 1st - meant to be 1/2 down back not a recieving RB
    Taylor 1st - first season with pats
    Baker 3rd - first season with pats
    Galloway 1st - can you say end of career

    That really is a high impact list you put together. BTW if you didn't notice most of them weren't drafted by the Pats, considered failures by there team, and/or came here at the end of their careers. Really the only arguements you have are Branch (superbowl mvp) and Moss (HoF imho) for any comparison to what Manning has had. Seriously this is the best list of high draft picks you could come up with? If it is then you really need to learn how to debate since this hurts more then helps your arguement
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : I dunno you tell me why you made a thread with no point to it
    Posted by mikec645[/QUOTE]

    I like your answer.  I dunno.  Listen, when you come up with something of merit, I'll be happy to answer yours. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]Dogg, I have no problem saying that the Colts have done a better job of evaluating, drafting, and developing receivers.  The Colts clearly put a priority on giving Peyton the tools to work with from day 1 and did a good job doing just that. The Pats have had our moments of greatness (Brown, Branch), but all in all WR seems to be the one position that has given our organization fits under the current regime.  We "might" have turned things around this year and nailed a few.  All you have to do is look at our current roster at WR to see how good we are at drafting them.  All but one of them playing yesterday came from free agency. I do understand the point of your thread.  I am one of those Brady fans who believes he would have had Peyton stats all along if he had better receivers to work with.  You did some homework, and looked at the draft status of our WR's to make your point, but all it proved is that we have been terrible at evaluating, drafting, and developing WR's.  We hit gold a couple of times, but that's not very good over that timespan.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]
    You are suggesting that Brady was never given the tools.  I disagree.  Especially considering the list.  There had to be players there to develop/keep.  It seems like the pats drop receivers year after year.  Why not keep them and work on them?  That's what Manning does.  Some don't develop, but they've had at least a couple/few years to figure it out.  I.E. - I'll be interested in how Gonzalez is handled next year. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    Only stat I care about is Brady 14-3 Playoff record 3 rings vs Manning 7-8 playoff record 1 ring.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : You are suggesting that Brady was never given the tools.  I disagree.  Especially considering the list.  There had to be players there to develop/keep.  It seems like the pats drop receivers year after year.  Why not keep them and work on them?  That's what Manning does.  Some don't develop, but they've had at least a couple/few years to figure it out.  I.E. - I'll be interested in how Gonzalez is handled next year. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    You are trying to get people here to agree with you that the Colts' way is the best way.  Guess what?  It's not going to happen.  So maybe you should go to a Colts' board, where everyone will agree with you, and stop pestering people here. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : You are trying to get people here to agree with you that the Colts' way is the best way.  Guess what?  It's not going to happen.  So maybe you should go to a Colts' board, where everyone will agree with you, and stop pestering people here. 
    Posted by newenglanderinexile[/QUOTE]

    Nope - There is no way I can effectively say the colts way is the best.  The pats have won 3 superbowls to the colts one.  But this is just talking about who is the better QB.  I am happy to say they are equally as good, but I am not interested in the brady is better because he has rings and less to work with.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]
    Harrison and James were fantastic out of college, but the rest were developed including Wayne and Clark and Gonzalez, etc.  
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I guess I am having trouble with how you think of the term "developed".

    Wayne was a first rounder (30th overall) in 2001 and was brought in specifically to be #2 to Harrison. He played in 13 games his first season 16 his second and was a starting his 3rd. He was under a rookie contract at the time. Do you think they were just going to drop him?

    Clark, also a first rounder (24th) in 2003, started in 10 games as a rook and 15 his second year. He sounds like a total development project. I wonder how this guy was lucky enough to stay in the league before he was fully developed.

    Gonzalez sadly was only drafted at #32 in 2007 and was specifically brought in to be the slot. He got into 13 games his rookie season (not sure how many were as a starter but with Harrison out for 11 games, he probably did start a few games.) His second year, he got more action as Harrison was still recovering from injury and saw mainly light duty. He is now the starter.

    So, just how do you define "development"? These guys don't look at all like they were developed. They hit the ground running.

    If even this simple issue was so skewed, it makes me wonder if it is worth it to go through your theory and show you just how many players Peyton has had that weren't top flight receivers coming out of college and ended up in nowheresville.

    On second thought, i would really only consider that if I were on a Colts board. Otherwise, who cares. Peyton picks his nose on camera and gets nasty with Oreos. Also on camera.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE] Seriously this is the best list of high draft picks you could come up with? If it is then you really need to learn how to debate since this hurts more then helps your arguement
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Great answer. Did you happen to see the people on Indy's "development" squad?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTEMy conclusion, thus, is that Brady and pats believe their pass catchers are as good as they need to be.  As good as the pats are, then, those pass catchers must be as good as the colts.  
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    What kind of logic is this? "As good as the Pats are then those pass catchers must be as good as the colts"????

    The answer is faulty logic. Your so-called conclusion is based on an assumption and therefore cannot be valid.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : I guess I am having trouble with how you think of the term "developed". Wayne was a first rounder (30th overall) in 2001 and was brought in specifically to be #2 to Harrison. He played in 13 games his first season 16 his second and was a starting his 3rd. He was under a rookie contract at the time. Do you think they were just going to drop him? Clark, also a first rounder (24th) in 2003, started in 10 games as a rook and 15 his second year. He sounds like a total development project. I wonder how this guy was lucky enough to stay in the league before he was fully developed. Gonzalez sadly was only drafted at #32 in 2007 and was specifically brought in to be the slot. He got into 13 games his rookie season (not sure how many were as a starter but with Harrison out for 11 games, he probably did start a few games.) His second year, he got more action as Harrison was still recovering from injury and saw mainly light duty. He is now the starter. So, just how do you define "development"? These guys don't look at all like they were developed. They hit the ground running. If even this simple issue was so skewed, it makes me wonder if it is worth it to go through your theory and show you just how many players Peyton has had that weren't top flight receivers coming out of college and ended up in nowheresville. On second thought, i would really only consider that if I were on a Colts board. Otherwise, who cares. Peyton picks his nose on camera and gets nasty with Oreos. Also on camera.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]
    I'll bite -
    Development means sticking with a receiver until they are completely in tune with your ace QB.  the 3 players you mentioned were drafted by the colts.  If wayne was so special at the outset how come the Wayne (as the #2) was #6 on the team his rookie year.  How come he wasn't a full time starter by his second -because he was developing. 

    Clark really wasn't the #1 TE until 2007 (his 5th year in the league).  Yes in 2005 he was the primary TE, but only because of injury.  The next year he was the #2 TE to a UDFA.  Development.

    Gonzalez really has yet to fully develop.  In his rookie season, Harrison went down, but who had more catches - Addai.  The following year with Harrison a shell of his former self, Gonzalez still had fewer catches than Harrison.

    but none of these guys were let go and they were given the chance to develop rapport with Manning.

    If these guys were the stars then they would have broken out by at least their 2nd year and been a star in their 3rd.  None of these guys were that.  But Wayne and Clark have developed into that.

    How come brady and belichick didn't give their receivers a chance to develop?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks

    In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brady's pass catchers - high draft picks : [QUOTE My conclusion, thus, is that Brady and pats believe their pass catchers are as good as they need to be.  As good as the pats are, then, those pass catchers must be as good as the colts.   Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE] What kind of logic is this? "As good as the Pats are then those pass catchers must be as good as the colts"???? The answer is faulty logic. Your so-called conclusion is based on an assumption and therefore cannot be valid.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]
    It is simply to once again point out that the colts receivers are great because the colts and manning are patient enough to let them become great.  All of you complain about Brady's lack of receiving talent, but they had every opportunity to do with their receivers what Manning and the colts have.  Maybe they felt it was not important.  Maybe Brady does not work with his receivers like Manning does. Maybe he figured they were good enough already since they were in the NFL.  I don't know.  What I do know is that the colts grow their receivers into greatness.  It is not anointed on them.  The only significant FA that the colts brought in was Stokley and that was only because Manning had worked with him at his summer camps in LA and knew he would be good.  Baltimore did not want him.   
     
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