Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeDerrWEDAT. Show WeDerrWEDAT's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    moss=all he does is catch TDs?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER! : Without sounding like an as$, I don't buy it.  Evolution is an extremely long process of change.  The opinion change here occurred overnight.  In fact, it did not even take that long.  Who really knows if there were locker room problems.  The real question is why would you (not specifically you but pats fans in general) believe these reports, but were unwilling to believe that Brady was disgruntled in the offseason about not having a new contract?  The only thing pats fans aren't fickle about is their allegience to the team.  The minute one goes, it doesn't matter what the reasons were, that player just became scum and vice versa.  For example, as recently as this summer, there were some here panning Branch.  He was a money grabber.  Now, he is the pats fans favorite shiny new (or used) toy.  Ultimately, we'll never know why the pats traded Moss.  Me, I believe it was plain and simply a business deal.  Belichick has demonstrated before that players he likely would not give a future contract to are trade bait.  Get something (anything) rather than nothing.  Guarantee Mankins will be shopped.  Can't be yet.  Question is, will another team bite?   
    Posted by Indylove


    Your first mistake is that you are over-generalizing.  Not all Pats fans supported Moss before the trade and not all Pats fans are supporting Branch now. 

    For my part, I had posted well before the trades and the season that I was (a) upset about Moss' winter rant and week-one rant, and that his time here may be winding down, though he is a great talent; (b) that I think the Branch trade was a mistake because of his high contract vs. his lack of durability, and that I don't like the way he got out of town in 2006, though I do like the signal the management is sending that they are returning to the old offense that keeps the clock running and the D resting on the sideline.

    But even now my opinion of the Branch deal is evolving because he took a substantial pay cut, which means to me that (a) he now values the team concept more than he did in 2006; (b) he is not costing as much, so there is less risk on the team of salary jealousies or over-paying for talent.  That's new in the last two days.  Speedy evolution. 

    Generally speaking, I think a lot of fans were or are not happy about the Branch trade. You are making this stuff up to fit your own prejudices...as usual.  You can change your name, but not your same bad habits.

    Atop of that, there were a lot of people concerned about Brady's perception of his contract talks.  It was constantly discussed here in the off-season.  Same for Wilfork.

    Additionally, there are former Pats players who have been universally supported following their departures, like Cassel, Vrabel, Hockstein, and others.  Same goes for some of the coaches.  How they leave and how they behaved when they were here mean everything to how they are defined by Pats fans in general.

    And as for evolution taking a long time, wrong again. After the siege of Stalingrad, the body types of residents' next-born generation were demonstrably leaner and smaller, the result of nature's ability to rapidly change and adapt a creator's  genetic coding (i.e., that of the parents) in response to external conditions (near-starvation).  There are other examples of rapid evolution, such as with dark vs. white moths in newly-industrialized England in the early 1800s, and more recently with lizards being relocated to an island to which they were new, with their mouths and heads radically changing shape in the course of 20 years to adapt to the new types of food they were eating in their new environment.

    Your post could not have been more filled with ignorance, bias and falsehoods.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER! : So what do you think of Brady & Belichick saying those things didn't happen and guys like Wilfork & I forget who saying Moss is one of the best people you'll ever meet?  Are they all lying? I think people are quick to believe what they want to believe and that's why some of these bogus stories were floated - makes it easier for fans to feel better about the loss of Moss while the new guys develop. Now I personally think it's good for the Pats to move to a more balanced attack or to develop different players in the role of deep threat but I don't think we need Randy Moss to be the villain of the story to make that happen. He's a guy who found out he was being outsourced but asked to stay a year to train his replacement(s). He acted more honorably than most I've seen in that actual situation.
    Posted by chromatic8


    Those two speak like politicians because it is the effective thing to do and best for the team.  According to reports, Brady even plans to enter politics after his football career ends.

    But I trust Bruschi's report of the Moss trade.  He is a straight-shooter with team access.  He reports the good, the bad and the ugly, always candidly.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    So, is it safe to assume with the quick about face re: Moss, that this Belichick experiment was a failure?
    Posted by Indylove


    Do you define 3.25 seasons, plus post-season games, as "quick".  Put the poking stick down and walk away.

    Your QB is 9-10 in the post-season.  He is generally considered by sports writers a mess as a post-season QB - the best regular season QB in the game, but one of the worst chokers in NFL history, often bowing out in each of the first games played of the Colts' post-seasons, and often ending in an untimely turn-over by Manning.   In that context, do you consider Polian's experiment with Manning a failure?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from passedball. Show passedball's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    Why would any team game plan to shut down Randy Moss when he does it himself? He just didn't make enough effort to get open the last couple of seasons plus, then complained he wasn't making enough money, so he was sent packing.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    Your first mistake is that you are over-generalizing.  Not all Pats fans supported Moss before the trade and not all Pats fans are supporting Branch now. 
    Well I am sure this is true, and yes I am being very general.  Prior to these moves, the general board perception of Branch would have been he's a pig and Moss is awesome.  Now those feellings have "generally" flipped completely.  Please don't say you haven't seen the same thing.   

    For my part, I had posted well before the trades and the season that I was (a) upset about Moss' winter rant and week-one rant, and that his time here may be winding down, though he is a great talent; (b) that I think the Branch trade was a mistake because of his high contract vs. his lack of durability, and that I don't like the way he got out of town in 2006, though I do like the signal the management is sending that they are returning to the old offense that keeps the clock running and the D resting on the sideline.

    But even now my opinion of the Branch deal is evolving because he took a substantial pay cut, which means to me that (a) he now values the team concept more than he did in 2006; (b) he is not costing as much, so there is less risk on the team of salary jealousies or over-paying for talent.  That's new in the last two days.  Speedy evolution. 

    Generally speaking, I think a lot of fans were or are not happy about the Branch trade. You are making this stuff up to fit your own prejudices...as usual.  You can change your name, but not your same bad habits. 
    I disagree.  All I need to do is read the board posts.  My name change was because Davedsone had me thown off.  Its not as easy as it used to be to get a board name.  This is an old one. 

    Atop of that, there were a lot of people concerned about Brady's perception of his contract talks.  It was constantly discussed here in the off-season.  Same for Wilfork.

    Additionally, there are former Pats players who have been universally supported following their departures, like Cassel, Vrabel, Hockstein, and others.  Same goes for some of the coaches.  How they leave and how they behaved when they were here mean everything to how they are defined by Pats fans in general.


    And as for evolution taking a long time, wrong again. After the siege of Stalingrad, the body types of residents' next-born generation were demonstrably leaner and smaller, the result of nature's ability to rapidly change and adapt a creator's  genetic coding (i.e., that of the parents) in response to external conditions (near-starvation).  There are other examples of rapid evolution, such as with dark vs. white moths in newly-industrialized England in the early 1800s, and more recently with lizards being relocated to an island to which they were new, with their mouths and heads radically changing shape in the course of 20 years to adapt to the new types of food they were eating in their new environment.
    If you say so. 

    Your post could not have been more filled with ignorance, bias and falsehoods.
    I disagree with your first and last characterization.  The one in the middle you hit. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER! : Do you define 3.25 seasons, plus post-season games, as "quick".  Put the poking stick down and walk away. Your QB is 9-10 in the post-season.  He is generally considered by sports writers a mess as a post-season QB - the best regular season QB in the game, but one of the worst chokers in NFL history, often bowing out in each of the first games played of the Colts' post-seasons, and often ending in an untimely turn-over by Manning.   In that context, do you consider Polian's experiment with Manning a failure?
    Posted by chrisakawoody

    Chris - don't be so sensitive. 

    there are people on this board that are calling rookies a bust 5 games into the season while believing that Belichick is the second coming. 

    As for Polian, no I don't consider his Manning experiment a failure.  I believe teams win and lose together.  Usually, Pats fans think this too, except where Manning is concerned.  Its your flaw. 
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER! : Do you define 3.25 seasons, plus post-season games, as "quick".  Put the poking stick down and walk away. Your QB is 9-10 in the post-season.  He is generally considered by sports writers a mess as a post-season QB - the best regular season QB in the game, but one of the worst chokers in NFL history, often bowing out in each of the first games played of the Colts' post-seasons, and often ending in an untimely turn-over by Manning.   In that context, do you consider Polian's experiment with Manning a failure?
    Posted by chrisakawoody



    Take a look at Manning's teams in the playoffs, and also the similarities to the Moss years in the playoffs.  It is the first post at the top of the page.  Not just that he chokes, but the offense itself.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    Quasi - please elaborate. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    In Response to Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!:
    Quasi - please elaborate. 
    Posted by Indylove



    I always believed that getting Moss and opening up the offense was a way of us challenging Peyton, essentially Brady learning to be Manning, the big thrower, and in 06 Manning took a fair offense and played with grit, played to the score like Brady used to, and stayed in the pocket, learning to read the blitz and throw without choking.  HE won a SB doing the basic QB things like managing the game, not just throwing it all the time. The # 1 thing any QB needs is the ability to manage the game, and QBs that love to throw, and want to score quickly which Manning and the Brady of Moss era did.

    In Mannings 10 playoff losses, not only did he choke, his offense couldn't score, period,  His 10 losses have avg 12 points a game and they always blamed the D, and in Brady's last 2 losses in the playoffs, the Pats have scored 14 points vs the Giants and Ravens.  Wide open attacks don't win very often unless they tone it down and play a balanced game, called playoff football. Look at all the SB teams who won multiple SBs especially with the same QB.  Starr 2 SB and 5 total NFL titles, Griese 2 SBs, Bradshaw 4 SBs, Montana 4 SBs, Simms 2 SBs, Aikman 3 SBs, and Brady 3 SBs, and Rothlesberger 2 SBs.  Except in desperate situations, all these QBs managed the game.  Their teams didn't just go out and blow teams away.  The 49ers had the greatest offense I have ever seen.  They could blow you out if they wanted to, had a great D, and their whole offense was based on ball control, running the clock to keep their D off the field.  Our SB offense was very similar and Brady, growing out here in SF was a Montana fan.  

    Too many fans here think we are going back to basics because of a lousy defense, and I say it is the other way around.  In 07 we kicked butt and our D became lethargic from midway in the 2nd Q, and we'd win 48-24 in games that weren't even close.  Ball control teams may be in closer games, but everyone is involved seeing the games are close and you wait till later to blow them out even it was just in the trenches.  When we beat the Eagles in our last SB, a close game, Chris Berman said to the panel after the game, that it was a very close game, but did you ever think for a second the Pats didn't completely control the game and they all agreed.

    Brady came into being as a starter as a seasoned pro in having an amazing foundation on how to control and win games, playing to the score, and not always blowing team out. If they were up 14 3, in the 2nd Q, he might not score the rest of the game, but of the other team got within 7, he'd take a nice long drive down the field every time and score, doing all the right things every QB should do to win, where Manning didn't though a much more polished QB in most eyes, and when Brady and the Pats forgot what got them there w/ Moss and CO, our offense couldn't win any big games.  Even the 06 team scored 34 points against the Colts in the AFC title game with Caldwell, which we lost, and in the last 2 playoff games with Brady having the best stat year maybe ever, and then the next year was his second best stat year, and the team scored 14 points in two losses

    All the multiple SB winners played playoff football all year, great D, balanced offensive attacks and QBs who for the most part managed the games.  Yes at times you have to be able to open it up, but then the offense has lulled the D to sleep, almost forgetting that QBs like Simms used to put up 35 - 40 points all the time till Parcels taught him how to win.  

    And yes, Manning is a huge choke. Last year & in 07 I believe, against the Chargers in the last minute or 2 he rolled right 3 times in a row and threw off the wrong foot each times and threw the ball like a dart with nothing on it about 15 yards and the ball looped in the air and fell about 5 feet in front of his receivers like a dudd, all at the end of the game, and he's done it over and over, even at Tennessee vs Florida and losing every game vs Spurrier

     
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    Re: Branch IS AN UPGRADE... PEYTON CURSE IS OVER!

    anyone has still smack to share? 9 catches, 98 yards! yep when moss had 9 catches he often had better stats or numbers like 150 yards but when u watch the game, its clear he was not running those same routes and taking the same tough character hits. plus not one drop. every catch was needed. that last one, moss does not even put himself in position to catch for there was a battle and hit to be had. bringing bak branch at expense of moss (essentially a one-up trade) is perhaps the BEst MOVE BEL HAS MAde in years if not ever (if we go on to win 3 of the next 4 rings)...did u c that block on the hernANDEZ RUN?

    branch is a natural born WINNER AND champion indeed... while moss is a natural born RINGLESS LOSER with better fantasy stats!
     
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