Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

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    Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Be sure to scroll WAY down to find him, for the record, and I've stted it many times in the past, I can't wait until he's gone.

    Higher Education – Stop Rate for Safeties

    It's probably harder to accurately portray on-field performance for safeties than it is for any other position in the NFL. First of all, on at least half the plays, a deep safety is off the camera view — it's impossible to know where he's lining up and what his initial read may be. Then, you have to factor in the radical difference most teams still have in responsibility between their free and strong safeties. The Buffalo Bills are a good example. On many plays, the Bills will 'hi/lo' their safeties pre-snap — Donte Whitner(notes) will start off at equal depth with Jairus Byrd(notes) in a vague Cover-2 look, but he'll move up to linebacker depth before the snap, while Byrd takes more of a center-field responsibility. Without fixed positions, it's difficult  to separate performance from scheme in a way that's truly representative of talent and effectiveness.

    For our safety stat rankings, we're moving away from Burn Rate, the metrics we used for cornerbacks. Now, we're using Football Outsiders' Stop Rate stat as the primary indicator — specifically, Stop Rate against the pass. Stop Rate is a percentage that shows how ofen a defender kept an offense from making a successful play — success in this case is defined as gaining 45% of needed yardage on first down, 60% of needed yardage on second down, and 100% of needed yardage on third or fourth down. As safeties are generally the last line of defense on pass plays, the average stop rate is going to be lower than you might expect. In Byrd's case, he might not even get to a receiver until that receiver is over 10 yards downfield. But since so many safeties involved in at least 40 pass plays (which was our minimum for this list) are playing behind coverage, dividing catches by targets really doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Here are the five most effective and five most susceptible safeties (40 minimum pass plays) when it comes to creating stops. Again, with the radical differences in safety responsibilities, this is less about who's 'best' and more about who's getting the job done in specific roles. Keep in mind also that pass plays aren't the same as targets — pass plays also include sacks and passes defensed. Tackles after the catch are covered with the 'pass tackles' metric in parentheses, and since flat-out whiffs aren't covered in play-by-play, they aren't counted here.

    Highest Stop Rates (vs. pass)

    Gerald Sensabaugh(notes), Dallas Cowboys (50% passing Stop Rate, 48 pass plays, 9.4 passing yards per play, 5 interceptions, 10 passes defensed, 36 pass tackles, 12 tackle stops, 55% run Stop Rate)

    Playing at linebacker depth a great deal of the time as the Cowboys showed single-safety shells, Sensabaugh had many more opportunities for stops than your average deep safety. He was often dropping into coverage against slot receivers and was able to clamp down after the catch

    Deon Grant(notes), New York Giants (49% passing Stop Rate, 51 pass plays, 7.2 passing yards per play, 3 interceptions, 10 passes defensed, 40 pass tackles, 14 tackle stops, 71% run Stop Rate)

    Not bad for an older guy … while Grant did come up to linebacker depth a lot, he was more versatile than your average veteran box safety. Grant would blitz, read and drop, and occasionally provide lockdown deep coverage in New York's frequent three-safety looks.

    Quintin Mikell(notes), Philadelphia Eagles (48% passing Stop Rate, 52 pass plays, 8.0 passing yards per play, 3 interceptions, 15 passes defensed, 36 pass tackles, 9 tackle stops, 55% run Stop Rate)

    Mikell excelled in slot and flex coverage, covering tight ends and inside receivers with aplomb all season. He's been one of the game's more underrated defenders over the past couple of years.

    Adrian Wilson(notes), Arizona Cardinals (48% passing Stop Rate, 44 pass plays, 7.6 passing yards per play, 2 interceptions, 9 passes defensed, 33 pass tackles, 10 tackle stops, 62% run Stop Rate)

    Behind Troy Polamalu(notes) and Ed Reed(notes), Wilson may be the third-best safety of his era. When you factor in the lack of help he had around him in his first few years with the Cardinals, he's been as great as anyone playing his position. From in the box to depth coverage, Wilson can still do it all.

    Malcolm Jenkins(notes), New Orleans Saints (47% passing Stop Rate, 51 pass plays, 10.9 passing yards per play, 2 interceptions, 12 passes defensed, 38 pass tackles, 11 tackle stops, 35% run Stop Rate)

    Jenkins is one of the new breed of safeties playing with a lot of cornerback skills; what's perhaps most impressive about him is that among the players in this top 5, he plays safety depth most of all. He's also a fierce closer after the catch.

    Lowest Stop Rates (vs. pass)

    Jairus Byrd, Buffalo Bills (10% passing Stop Rate, 40 pass plays, 15.2 passing yards per play, 1 interception, 2 passes defensed, 37 pass tackles, 1 tackle stop, 38% run Stop Rate)

    As we pointed out in the preface, Byrd's schematic setup precludes him from making a lot of stops, but still … these numbers are problematic. Byrd also does come up in a Polamalu-like role at times to crash the edge on run blitzes, but game tape shows that in 2010, he spent most of his time in center field, trying to catch up with receivers who had pinballed their way through Buffalo's front seven. A very disappointing campaign after his nine-interception rookie year, though the difference also shows just how random interceptions can be. One positive point — according to FO's game charting, Byrd finished eighth among qualifying safeties with 1.8 yards allowed after catch.

    Chris Hope(notes), Tennessee Titans (17% passing Stop Rate, 47 pass plays, 12.7 passing yards per play, 1 interception, 5 passes defensed, 41 pass tackles, 2 tackle stops, 36% run Stop Rate)

    Hope also played deep a lot, especially against cluster receiver formations in which he played a backfield supporting role in zone coverage. He also play rover on obvious rushing downs, covering a lot of intermediate ground.

    Antoine Bethea(notes), Indianapolis Colts (17% passing Stop Rate, 41 pass plays, 12.4 passing yards per play, 1 interception, 5 passes defensed, 35 pass tackles, 1 tackle stop, 38% run Stop Rate)

    Bethea lined up just about everywhere in the Colts' zone looks — a lot of intermediate and back- coverage with some box.

    Brandon Meriweather(notes), New England Patriots (19% passing Stop Rate, 48 pass plays, 13.9 passing yards per play, 3 interceptions, 6 passes defensed, 42 pass tackles, 3 tackle stops, 27% run Stop Rate)

    Meriweather played a lot of mid-to-deep coverage, often past the first-down marker. He's frequently savvy when jumping passes, but the after-catch tackling needs a lot of work.

    Ryan Clark(notes), Pittsburgh Steelers (21% passing Stop Rate, 53 pass plays, 12.9 passing yards per play, 2 interceptions, 7 passes defensed, 46 pass tackles, 4 tackle stops, 52% run Stop Rate)

    Clark holds a lot of deeper coverage responsibilities when Troy Polamalu goes all bombardier with the blitzes; he's also one of the better run defenders at his position.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    This is much worse in baseball, but some stats are just designed to tell you that your eyes are wrong.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Well, my eyes have agreed with these numbers. But aside from that, whether these stats mean anything, a lot, or nothing, you can stack them up and see who falls where...and Meriweather sinks to the bottom.
     
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    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Brandon is NOT that bad, but he is the antithesis of the normal Patriots pro-bowler elite.  He does NOT excell at the fundamentals of his position, for a safety thats tackling and pass coverage.  He doesn't make the best decisions on AND/OR off the field.  He's not a great leader.  He doesn't always take responsible for his actions (when he screws up anyways). 

    Good news is Chung COULD be the best Safety in the league some day and a least be a pro-bowler next year.  He does to all the things mentioned above. 

    I'm not hating merriweather, he definetly good enough to play in this league and he's one of the hardest hitters in the game .  HOWEVER

    I dare anyone on this site to argue that they think the Pats will resign Merriweather.  Please if are going to argue this research what the top safetys signed in the last 2 years got because that's what Brandon will expect to get paid. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    The dude sucks.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Nothing new here. Meriweather doesn't tackle.... next post!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    I wish there was football, I'd be curious what all his supporters, of which there were PLENTY around last year, would have to say.

    People found reason to defend JD Drew for 4+ years, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Meriweather has a following...but it still does.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    He's not getting any props here either.  tcal2 said it best: "The dude sucks." 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZigZig. Show ZigZig's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    The guy stinks period!!!! Get rid of him, he's useless...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Can't stand the guy as a player - I usually could care less about a guy off the field, but he leaves a lot to be desired in that area as well. The thing I disagree with is when people say he is a good hitter; to me good hitters have sand in their pants and dislodge the ball from the reciever or bring them down...2 things he doesn't do. Aside from head shots and leading with his helmet, I don't think he scares anyone except his own coaches.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    "Now, we're using Football Outsiders' Stop Rate stat as the primary indicator — specifically, Stop Rate against the pass. Stop Rate is a percentage that shows how ofen a defender kept an offense from making a successful play — success in this case is defined as gaining 45% of needed yardage on first down, 60% of needed yardage on second down, and 100% of needed yardage on third or fourth down."

    Sorry, but this is just an insanely scr#wed up way to judge a Safety...  So, as it stands, "stop rate vs the run" is the exact same thing, right?  Not whiffs, not broken tackles...  Just Vs Pass and Vs Run=IF the oppossing player gets 45% or more of the needed yards on 1st down, or 60% or more of the needed yards on 2nd down, Or 100% of the needed yards on 3rd/4th down...It's a fail?  

    That's just weird... Considering If you're playing deep zone (more like a FS) far more than short (like a SS), you're essentially scr#wed...  Idk, are these ALL Free Safeties here???  Even systematically per Defensive set-up it doesn't make any sense...  Let alone, So what IF lmao-a deep Safety helps a CB who blew coverage huge, and the guy 9 outta 9X makes a decent stop for only a 5 yard gain on 1st...Then he's NO different than some Safety who gave up 9 outta 9 TDs???  Both are ALL fails, right?  And now we're talking about deep field help, with some teams playing a Cover 2 Defense...That's gonna skew it in those Safeties favor every single time?  And then there's quality of a team's CB, quality of pass-rush, Playing prevent Defense late in the game IF and when your team's ahead (and The Pats nearly ALWAYS are).  So what IF you read a play, leave your zone, and stop a ball-carrier either running or after the catch, but it wasn't your given coverage assignment...???  Answer:  IF the yards are above that given percentage above per down...then You've Failed.

    Sorry, say whatcha will about Merri, but this judging criteria is just awful...     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    He stinks.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    In Response to Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football:
    He stinks.
    Posted by PetesCall


    In comparison, ^ This analysis is about as well researched, as the article's is.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Laz - Yes, how the stats are collected is suspect but when it comes to the eye test we've all seen players bounce off Meri when he goes in for the big hit. He tends to lead with his helmet or spear fashion with shoulder first instead of going for a wrap up. He is a ball hawk and jumps routes but there have also been numerous occasions that he missed. Yes Meri, plays deep zone but there are times when the plays happen under him and the you seen BB yelling at him on the sidelines making a motion for Meri to move up. Meri, likes to play further back to line up a big shot or get more speed to jump routes but this a larger zone for the LB's to cover, which clearly they can't.

    Meri, is a weird S to point to how good or bad he is. His tackling and angles are well below average but he does command the opponents respect on the field and can make a game changing play. Meri is a hit or miss player, he either makes the big plays or he gives up the big plays. For some people his big plays makes him a valuable asset. To me I like consistent performance like Chung. IMO Meri is going to want a huge payday that the Pats won't give. Given that his value might never be higher if they can get a good deal (and only for a good deal not a deal just to get rid of him) then I wouldn't be against trading him
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    In Response to Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football:
    Laz - Yes, how the stats are collected is suspect but when it comes to the eye test we've all seen players bounce off Meri when he goes in for the big hit. He tends to lead with his helmet or spear fashion with shoulder first instead of going for a wrap up. He is a ball hawk and jumps routes but there have also been numerous occasions that he missed. Yes Meri, plays deep zone but there are times when the plays happen under him and the you seen BB yelling at him on the sidelines making a motion for Meri to move up. Meri, likes to play further back to line up a big shot or get more speed to jump routes but this a larger zone for the LB's to cover, which clearly they can't. Meri, is a weird S to point to how good or bad he is. His tackling and angles are well below average but he does command the opponents respect on the field and can make a game changing play. Meri is a hit or miss player, he either makes the big plays or he gives up the big plays. For some people his big plays makes him a valuable asset. To me I like consistent performance like Chung. IMO Meri is going to want a huge payday that the Pats won't give. Given that his value might never be higher if they can get a good deal (and only for a good deal not a deal just to get rid of him) then I wouldn't be against trading him
    Posted by PatsEng


    Lmao...I, ahh really- sorta...Can't find anything here I actually disagree PatsEng. Merriweather, has nowhere near taken that "big leap", and actually by my accounts at least, appears to be sorta regressing in fact...He'll want to be paid handsomely for this, without any question.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from startrightnow. Show startrightnow's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Still dont understand how some people can defend this guy. And i never hear anyone say anything good about him , even from so-called defenders. Its just , stuff like "hes not that bad" , " he does his job" etc. The guy is terrible , period. He's always going for the big hit , obviously cant tackle/wrap up to save his life. Im not sure whats worst , his decisions or angles he takes trying to execute them. Ive been saying get rid of him for years. I cant stand when we hang on to these players when we know they just suck. I cant trust him up front or playing centerfield. I just look around the league and the production some teams are getting from their S's drives me crazy. Happy 4th
     
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    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    In Response to Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football:
    Still dont understand how some people can defend this guy. And i never hear anyone say anything good about him , even from so-called defenders. Its just , stuff like "hes not that bad" , " he does his job" etc. The guy is terrible , period. He's always going for the big hit , obviously cant tackle/wrap up to save his life. Im not sure whats worst , his decisions or angles he takes trying to execute them. Ive been saying get rid of him for years. I cant stand when we hang on to these players when we know they just suck. I cant trust him up front or playing centerfield. I just look around the league and the production some teams are getting from their S's drives me crazy. Happy 4th
    Posted by startrightnow


    I defended this guy up til the end of his 4th year, here... See, blasting on Merriweather early, sorry- It means ya really had your own agenda (not refering to you straightright, just "early naysayers" en masse). I have, and will ALWAYS say, that Brandon Merriweather would be, and HAS been, an excellent STRONG Safety... This is to say, IF Merri was placed on most any team that still deploys your basic set roles, for a player playing SS, and a different guys at FS...he'd do fine. And he HAS done fine there...
     
    But that's not 1 bit what BB wants.  His Safety system is extremely unique (Although many more teams now are following this lead).  BB wants interchangeable guys (Safeties), so the oppossing O (audibling QBs) doesn't exploit 1 standard player, playing Free Safety- that guy's lower skill-set vs the run/physical game, NOR does the oppossing O seeing who's lining up where on some Defensive set-up prior to the snap, exploit 1 standard player's, A guy who's a consensus, trademark, token SS, By exploiting HIS lesser skill-set in pass D (compared to the FS), with some favorable pass-coverage matchup...  Anyway, even though more teams are deploying interchangeable Safety Roles now, I STILL don't know IF any other team, deploys it like NE (or to this degree), wherein these interchangeable guys aren't simply 1 deep and 1 up front (moving around slightly to 1 side or the other).  BB rather, deploys a constantly shifting dependant on the Offensive look, 1 Safety covering 1 SIDE of the field (a little more up front, but not much), and that OTHER Safety covering the OTHER side of the field (back just a tiny bit from the Safety on the other side)...

    Now, you throw in receivers in motion, audibling QB's at the LOS, and suddenly these guys (2 Safeties) have to account for even 1 more tiny nuance of their zone coverage responsibilities... And lol, this is all BEFORE the receivers actually RUN their routes, wherein eligible receivers stray into 1 Safeties zone bubble, and into another, in and out... And we're talkin' multiple receiver set-ups here.  Take THIS into account AND the fact that yes-Sometimes Belichick/Or the Defensive play design for what these Safeties coverage duties are, DOES have a deep guy covering 1 half, and a guy up short (as oppossed to left vs right)...And this too, Is ALL dependant on what the Offense is showing... 

    Basic BB #1 Principle on Defense:  Do NOT exploit whatever YOU perceive to be the Offense's weakness, BUT rather counter and check their best strength...  Make them uncomfortable.  Hit them back where it counts...  Don't gamble on your guys'(s) skills doing some set-piece with them...  Don't waste your time pretending to see who's guys are better in their given very particular skill-sets, The guys on Offense & their basic single positive skill-sets, and overall positive skill-sets, OR your guys in their basic Best overall traits, both as a team & singularly...  That's gambling in his eyes...st#pid gambling.  No...rather, he wants his guys completely versatile enough to check-mate any showing an Offense shows at any given time...  Take away their very BEST chances, their best looks, their bread & butter, i.e. what they've formerly learned they can and should count on...  Take these away, and see them make mistakes and get flustered.  Don't waste your efforts on attacking some Best perceived weakness with some skill-set your guys may or may not be able to exploit, but spend your time suffocating their best strengths with your own guys's versatility.


    Anyway, Standard Safety Roles in terms of most every other NFL Team, no longer apply...  YET, there is, or at least, WAS defence of Merriweather for the 1st 3 years...  Guy played GOOD up front, not to mention the fact that Meri was thrown straight into the fire pretty d#mn early & often with NE's Safety and CB injury troubles.  And you can see why BB wanted him, considering that at U of M, Merri played several different DB spots: SS mainly, but also some FS, and even a little CB duties.  

    STILL, ya got 3 FULL years to get this transition in principle, and the basic VERY different mindsets that go along with the principles of being adaptive & versatile in 2 different Safety Roles...1 more patient in FS, 1 more attacking in SS.  It's tough, can't really BLAME Merriweather for not being able to change everything he's learned how to play at a given spot (SS more than anything)...  It's like asking Wes Welker to be JUST as productive running Randy Moss's deep routes, as Wes is running in the slot, ya know?  
         Anyway, and either way...ALOT of Safeties would fail here.  And no, One Can-NOT say that "other NE, YOUNGER NE Safeties" are "getting it" and "doing it."  Because, it's just not true.  Patrick Chung, has been deployed nearly EXACTLY like Merriweather was deployed early on in Merri's NE Safety role, AS that FRONT guy...And NOT deep ball/front guy/deep ball/front guy/left/right/left/right.  Chung's transitions are more focused on 1 of the Safety-roles transitions, (either up front, or left- but still front, OR right- but still front).  Much holds true for McGowan who has been deployed in an even greater set-role, More as a 3rd Safety, a TE coverage Safety.  And even with James Sanders...  What was the consensus with James Sanders early on?  A: "Sanders' sorta "s#cked" right?"  "Guy's decent enough with the deep-ball, but pretty freaking cr#ppy closer to the front."  But Sanders himself, is finally "getting" BOTH roles, and all their differences in mindset & scheme.  

    ...Unfortunately though, Merri won't be able to.  Merriweather's g-o-n-e.  Some team will be exorbitantly for his couple of pro-bowls, and not only will NE "not pay", but in terms of a player of his "suppossed caliber" finally "getting" BBs Safety system, Brandon Merriweather gets graded imho on a tougher curve than James Sanders... And in year 4 (2010), he didn't show anyone that in any way, Could he be worthy of that upcoming Contractual superior grade (an "A" no doubt), based on his test endeavors on the field.        
     
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    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    If he stays for cheap money id keep him because he doesnt suck.  but for the chunk of change hes going to expect,...not worth a look.  Especially with pat chung on the roster.  His play reminds me alot of rodney harrison.  hopefully he can develop into that caliber player becasue rodney is top 5 all time hands down.  I dont think ive seen a rookie safety tackle like chung and just have a knack for where he needed to be all the time.  hes gunna be a stud safety if not this year in the next couple

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dna53. Show dna53's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    He's a solid safety but he'll never be a great one...Would love to see Dowling at safety....But he's not a bottom 5 safety...not by a long shot....
    60maxpowero.com
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    The more I think about it...Meriweather = Tebucky Jones. Athletic, always going for big hits, though Meri is somewhat better at jumping routes than Tebucky was, but Tebucky was a much more solid tackler. And much like Tebucky, someone will overpay, realize their mistake, and cut bait shortly thereafter. The Pats got a 2nd rounder, flipped for Corey Dillon, a 4th - Dexter Reid, and a 7th - Tully Banta-Cain. Jones played in NO one year and got cut. Unreal deal for the Pats, I'd be happy to net the same package of picks For Meri right now.

    I understand the complexity of all parts Pats D, and that's a part of my major isue with Meriweather. He saw reduced playing time at the beginning of the season, and admitted he was trying to do too much of his own stuff, basically freelancing. The Pats D is predicated on everyone knowing, and sticking to their responsibility...he doesn't even TRY to play within the system too often, and makes himself, others, the coaches and the team look bad. No discipline, that seems to be a trend with him...on and off the field.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    I guess the only thing we can do is keep out fingers crossed might help him as a player.....Hopefully the workout is more than just cardio!

     Brandon Meriweather 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    I've never been a big fan of individual defensive stats for determining a player's value in a team oriented defense.  Clearly there are some that are indicative of a player's contribution but most are not particularly helpful when there's an element of subjectivity in the stat. And I think there is in this case.  That said, I've never felt that Meriweather was as team-oriented as he needed to be nor would I consider him a leader in any sense of the word.   If he moves on, I won't shed a tear.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    Soooo...as you can see by this formula, X= Meriweather suucks

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptFoxboro. Show CaptFoxboro's posts

    Re: Brandon Meriweather a bottom 5 safety in football

    A few years back a friend of mine coined the ultimate nick name for Meriweather : U-TURN
     
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